00:00 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:11 In your 2023 U.S. Attorney Investigator's speech, you highlighted the challenges you
00:16 believe America faces and what justice means.
00:19 You said, quote, "We're experiencing a long overdue reckoning with racism in the criminal
00:25 justice system."
00:29 Mr. Ritz, what part of the criminal justice system needs a long overdue reckoning?
00:35 Senator, what I was describing were a number of things that have happened in recent years
00:40 in this country that framed, I would say, in some ways, the work that we do in the U.S.
00:45 Attorney's Office.
00:47 Is the American justice system systematically racist?
00:51 That is not a sentiment that I hold, to the degree there is a definition of what being
00:56 systematically racist means.
01:00 I understand some individuals have pointed to disparities in sentencing and that type
01:06 of thing, but that's not a view that I have.
01:09 So that's not a view that you have.
01:10 That was your testimony.
01:12 Well, you also said, quote, "There cannot be one rule of law for people who look like
01:17 me and another for people of color."
01:20 That sure sounds like the view you just said you didn't have.
01:24 You believe that's our system, that our justice system has one rule of law for people that
01:29 look like you and a different rule of law for people of color?
01:32 No, what I said is that absolutely we cannot have one rule of law for people who look like
01:37 me and another for people of color.
01:39 We cannot have one rule of law for the powerless and another for the—there's just one rule
01:43 of law.
01:44 That's what I said.
01:47 You also said, when asked if the criminal justice system is systematically racist, you
01:51 said, quote, "There are structural barriers and disparate outcomes that communities of
01:56 color experience in our society, separate and apart from any individual's views or intentions."
02:01 Now, that again seems to be saying the same thing that you're saying you weren't saying.
02:06 I'm just trying to understand what your views are.
02:09 And Senator, that was my attempt in that written question to grapple with again what was being
02:14 asked by systematic racism.
02:17 I understand some have pointed to structural barriers and disparate outcomes.
02:22 So what are the barriers and outcomes you're referring to?
02:24 I can think of one prominent example that I've had some experience with, which is the
02:29 disparity in cocaine sentencing between crack sentencing and powder sentencing.
02:34 This body has addressed those disparities on multiple occasions, and that has been,
02:40 as I understand it, something that people have addressed as a result of disparities.
02:49 You also said, in responses to questions for the record, that as the attorney general has
02:54 explained, everyone has implicit biases.
02:58 So what are your implicit biases?
03:00 Senator, I understand implicit bias to refer to unconscious bias that exists below the
03:06 level of consciousness, and so to the degree I have implicit biases, I think we all do.
03:13 I think that's partly the point.
03:15 Everyone's a racist, whether they know it or not?
03:17 I would say that everyone might have implicit biases, and I don't know what...
03:22 So what's the difference between bias and prejudice?
03:25 I think there can be a lot of overlap in those things.
03:29 It depends, I think, on the context.
03:31 So you're saying everyone is prejudiced?
03:34 That's not what I said, Senator.
03:35 You said everyone has implicit biases, and you said that bias and prejudice, I think
03:38 your words were, there's a lot of overlap.
03:40 I think that's right, and I understand implicit bias, and I'm not an expert on the subject,
03:45 to refer to a set of biases that may exist under a conscious level.
03:52 So since you talk about these implicit bias issues, have you taken a so-called implicit
03:59 bias test?
04:01 We received training that was put on during the last administration in our office on implicit
04:06 bias.
04:07 I attended that training in our office.
04:09 And did you take a test?
04:11 I don't believe there was a test associated with that, Senator.
04:15 Okay, you also said, "But you should know that for justice, for me, is about more than
04:22 putting people in prison.
04:23 For me, it's also about who votes and how hard it is to cast that vote.
04:27 It's about where pipelines or bus routes go.
04:31 This is about whether people in all zip codes can get a loan, whether women have access
04:34 to health care."
04:39 That's an interesting statement, and in reading it, what's striking is that that's deemphasizing
04:46 the core role of a U.S. attorney.
04:48 The last I checked, a U.S. attorney is not in the policy business of deciding where pipelines
04:54 go.
04:55 That's the role of environmental activists and left-wing activists, but is not supposed
05:00 to be a U.S. attorney.
05:05 Why was your focus elsewhere?
05:07 Senator, and the very next thing I said was that those are not issues that we deal with
05:12 on a day-to-day basis in the U.S. Attorney's Office, where we are primarily focused on
05:16 enforcing criminal laws.
05:18 I was seeking to place justice as a broad concept at the center of, you know, to place
05:25 our work within justice as a broad concept.
05:29 Do you agree that Memphis is one of the most dangerous cities in the nation?
05:32 It is.
05:33 We have an intolerable amount of violent crime, and that's why there's no higher priority
05:37 for us in our office.
05:40 Well, there's no higher priority except for pipelines, except for bus routes, except for
05:51 bank loans, except for implicit bias, except for the fact that everyone is prejudiced,
05:56 all of those other things are what you're focused on talking about instead of actually
06:02 locking up bad guys who are murdering and raping and hurting people.
06:06 In those same comments, Senator, I said that we don't apologize for seeking significant
06:11 prison sentences, and that's at the core of what we do.
06:15 When we have serious violent crime, we seek serious sentences and consequences.
06:21 Thank you.
06:22 Thank you, Senator Cruz, and thank you, Mr. Ritz.
06:25 We appreciate your being here.
06:26 We may receive some questions in writing.
06:28 If you'll respond in a prompt fashion, we'd appreciate it very much.
06:31 Thank you.
06:32 We now make room for the second panel.
06:41 Thank you.
06:55 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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