00:00 The two guests have said that there should be an open court hearing.
00:05 This is the opinion of the Supreme Court and the Munib.
00:09 First, give us your view. Do you think the commission is right or is it a so-moto?
00:13 Mr. Kashifa, this matter has been going on for days and I have been coming to different programs for days.
00:19 When I was asked about your opinion, my answer was that the commission should take the Congress Act 184.
00:31 This was my personal opinion.
00:33 I thought that these things should be brought to clarity.
00:39 This is a matter of judiciary and it should be resolved by the judiciary.
00:43 Neither the administration nor any other institution should interfere.
00:47 This is my personal opinion.
00:49 So, I think everyone has a consensus on this.
00:53 The Supreme Court should hold a hearing on 184. It would be better if the open court hearing is held.
00:58 Mr. Tariq Khan has also said that this should be done.
01:04 This is a matter of TORs.
01:06 Obviously, this will become a very political subject.
01:10 If this is included in the TORs, as the Law Minister has said, it will be a misconduct of judges.
01:17 Should it be put in? Should this be included in the TORs?
01:20 If this is not proved, then what will be the punishment for the judges?
01:23 Because the Law Minister has pointed to that.
01:26 Munib, I think you have to speak up.
01:31 Mr. Qais, I think we all have a consensus that this should be included in 184.
01:41 It should have been in the Supreme Court or in the Suomoto.
01:44 It should not have gone to the executive branch.
01:46 Let me put aside all the allegations.
01:49 Because the judges had spoken.
01:51 They wrote to the Chief Justice or the Supreme Judicial Council.
01:54 They said that the point is the same.
01:55 So, the point should have been there.
01:57 And if this has to be resolved once and for all, then this is the way.
02:00 But if the TORs have to resolve this, then the Cabinet will do it first.
02:05 Because these allegations are very serious.
02:11 If this is not proven, and who has the onus of proving it?
02:15 It is on the six judges.
02:17 So, if this is not proven, then the judicial misconduct will be considered against them.
02:22 And their cases, because they, I am giving you information, that it is in my mind,
02:30 that it will be written that if they have not proven their allegations,
02:34 then their case should be referred to the Supreme Judicial Council.
02:38 Because they have politicized the institution of judiciary.
02:41 And they have put the most serious allegations on Pakistan's premier intelligence agency.
02:46 Now, the question is, again, that I am not talking about perception, I am talking about facts.
02:53 Facts, if the judges, let's suppose, are not able to prove it, they fall short,
02:58 or they do not have evidence for many things, then what will be the result?
03:03 The government is absolutely clear on this, that it will pin down the judges if they are not able to prove it.
03:09 But if you look at it logically, then is this practice, like perception,
03:16 again I am saying that I am not entertaining perception,
03:18 perception is much much stronger than these allegations.
03:21 If I talk about these allegations, and if they are not proven,
03:25 then no prudent judge in Pakistan can say that they should be brushed aside,
03:30 or let's leave it, they could not be proven, the allegation was true, but they could not be proven.
03:35 What they are alleging is a very serious charge.
03:38 What they are saying is a very serious and harsh thing.
03:41 And putting cameras in the house and all this is not a small, normal thing.
03:46 And we are sitting in the whole world, we are part of the globe,
03:49 our election is ahead, the whole world is on it, like the EU has done,
03:54 America is talking, anyone is doing it, everyone is raising questions.
03:57 So here, if the judges are not able to prove this, God forbid, what happened to them,
04:03 then can anyone say this, can we all come and say that no, it's okay?
04:07 But it is written in this, when he spoke to the CJ of Islamabad High Court,
04:12 he said, I have spoken.
04:14 Absolutely.
04:15 So, somewhere, circumstantially, this is being endorsed, that the allegations that have been put,
04:22 now the charge sheet is against the CJ of Islamabad High Court,
04:25 who have gone to the judges six times, this is happening, this is happening, on various occasions.
04:29 And he didn't do anything, he should have done something.
04:31 Even former Chief Justice,
04:33 Mr. Bandyal, he went to Mr. Bandyal, and at the same time,
04:38 he met Mr. Faiz Isa as a senior puny judge.
04:41 So, nobody did anything.
04:43 He should have spoken to his own forum first.
04:45 In that, I will say something about Justice Qazi Faiz Isa,
04:48 that at that time, a judgment was coming from the Supreme Court,
04:52 in which it was said to stop him,
04:55 that no other judge can take a swerve motion, except the mother of Chief Justice of Pakistan.
05:00 And maybe that's why, as a senior puny judge, he didn't take a step.
05:04 This is my thought, maybe.
05:06 Absolutely right.
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