00:00 So let's ask one of those big questions
00:02 It's perhaps the most important thing I've learned from you, which is the the nature of consciousness and very specifically
00:09 the possibility that we're all connected not in some
00:13 Paranormal way that you know people can poopoo away, but actually as a hard-nosed
00:19 I shouldn't say rationalist, but people who are comfortable in the rational world
00:25 There is something that must be linking us that is otherwise we fight otherwise we'd fight
00:31 But it also does it instinctively
00:33 Mm-hmm allows least our instincts to act on it and it's probably one of the reasons that so many of the people we have
00:38 Believed over the centuries that all humans have looked to for at least 12,000 years of civilized humanity
00:45 might explain where they got these ideas from that they could actually have these lucid dreams and visions of what true reality is
00:53 beneath the surface
00:55 Could you walk us through that because it's profound. Well, it requires focus, but it will change lives
01:01 Well, we don't really understand
01:06 How thought is generated, you know the experience is that?
01:11 Words or images just sort of manifest themselves in the theater of your imagination
01:16 You think I thought that up, but if you think about it, you think well
01:19 No, those words just appeared in my head sometimes and or sometimes it seems like I'm more the creator of them
01:26 You know, like when you're wrestling to write there's obviously intent there on your part. Where do those words come from?
01:32 Well the void it's like well, that's one explanation, but there's in it's a biological phenomenon thought and
01:40 We're in bodies and those bodies have evolved from
01:43 hundreds of millions of years
01:47 Scaffolding one system on top of the other the body manifests itself in these deep motivational systems that everyone shares that allow us to
01:55 Move forward and to feel joy and to feel terror and to be angry and to experience the basic
02:02 motivations of hunger and lust and thirst
02:04 That's all complex
02:07 biological scaffolding and then those manifest themselves in the tendency to represent patterns of action and that's
02:14 Fantasy and it's right hemisphere mediated to a large degree and that produces dreams and fantasies that turn into dramas
02:21 That turn into rituals and dramas and then narratives and then out of those narratives we abstract out
02:27 Explicit thought and that's the left hemisphere embedded in all of that. So that's left hemisphere
02:34 Right hemisphere surrounding it not then separate
02:37 Surrounding it. Yeah, and so the left dominates when things are working
02:43 And but when they're not working, well the explicit left doesn't know what to do
02:47 Well, then fantasy emerges to start to hypothesize about what this thing that is strange might be and that's the realm of dream
02:55 and all of that and so that's outside on the fringes of
02:58 Reality where the monsters are and that's all embedded into the instincts and the body
03:03 That's all necessary for thought so we have the rational world that we can look around see touch feel surrounded by dreams
03:11 Rather by dream that takes us to the unknown. Yeah, they bore it
03:15 It that's right. It fades out into the unknown just like your vision
03:18 The center of your vision is very sharp and precise and then it's less
03:22 High resolution as you move out and then it fades into blackness itself and not even blackness. It's the absence of blackness, right?
03:30 What's behind it? It's not black. It's just
03:32 Absolutely, not there in your visual perception and thought is like that. It's
03:37 So again perception is like that if the left brain is for example the hunter
03:41 Right, it grasps it holds. Mm-hmm. The right brain is the searcher the
03:47 In times of uncertainty, yes. Yes
03:50 It's the thing that mediates between the absolutely unknown and the and the absolutely known
03:55 There's a domain of partially known and that's the domain of dream. Why are some people able to see that?
04:02 Partial known they think more in dreams and images. That's part of it. That's artists
04:06 They're out there on the fringe. That's their niche the open people high and openness the personality trait. They're on the fringe
04:12 They're on the edges. That's why they're strange and
04:15 uncanny in some sense and you know
04:17 Lots of people especially those with a more conservative bent temperamentally speaking are suspicious of them because they're agents of unpredictable
04:24 transformation and therefore extremely dangerous but
04:28 Necessary right and most artists fail because most experiments fail and it's but some artists hyper succeed
04:34 So it's a strange niche. It's like you probably will fail
04:37 But if you succeed you can succeed beyond your wildest dreams
04:40 So if you look back in human history where there always some people maybe a lot of people who are able to go beyond always
04:46 Always those are the shaman for like who knows how many tens of thousands of years the mystics
04:53 Yeah, and how do you get a world that doesn't acknowledge that that's even possible?
04:57 That's just a hyper dominance of the rational only what we understand explicitly and propositionally is allowed to be true
05:05 It's like fine except you know, your theory is incomplete. It's going to fail. So then what do you do?
05:09 Well, we kill people to point that out. It's like, yeah, well, okay, but you know, it's not just the people that are pointing that out
05:17 It's that your stupid theory isn't right and it can't be it can never be complete
05:21 See, that's the thing about human beings is we we have incomplete theories
05:25 but we have to live and so we have incomplete theories that we sort of understand and we have
05:29 Complete theories that we don't understand and those are fantasies and dreams and even then in some sense
05:35 there's still in I'd be okay people acknowledge that but I find as a scientist as a doctor that we have a
05:41 Thought process that's pretty complete not not completely but you know enough there that we believe that's everything then we try to take faith
05:50 This concept you just described for example and put it into that same
05:54 Experimental box and then we ask questions of it that only would apply to a more traditional
05:59 Western minded scientific experiment and it fails. Mm-hmm, right you ask rational questions of what you're just describing
06:05 Which is a theory of how we connect to the unknown around?
06:09 Well part, you know part of that is you go to watch Pinocchio at a theater and someone says, you know, that's not real. It's like
06:17 Wrong time for that statement. Well, why well, I don't know you're bugging me. I'm watching the movie you're interfering with the movie
06:24 I'm doing something here. What are you doing?
06:26 I'm enjoying myself. Why?
06:28 Why don't know right?
06:31 You don't know neither did the people who made the movie
06:34 But that doesn't mean you're not doing something you're dreaming
06:38 If you don't dream you die, I mean literally that happens right you deprive people of dreams they die, but it's also true
06:46 Psychologically, it's true. Communally. It's true. Politically if we don't dream we die artists are the dreamers and
06:51 We're captivated by them musicians are dreamers. They walk us through a dream with their melodies. We love it. We need it
06:58 It's not optional. It's vital. It's it's vital
07:01 It's absolutely crucial and it is this issue of borders
07:05 Beyond the domain of rational thought is the domain of the fantasy in the dream and we're all ensconced in a dream to some degree
07:12 I mean the mysteries of Christianity so much of that is dream
07:15 You know and sort of like we woke up during the Enlightenment and went Oh
07:18 Rationally, we don't understand this at all. Look what we're doing. What the hell are we doing?
07:23 We're eating this wheat wafer and that's God and it's the word and somehow that's the resurrection and you know
07:29 And look at this guy up on the dome. That's the sky and what's up with this Cathedral?
07:33 And why do we have Christmas trees and it's like what the hell are we doing?
07:37 Well, we're walk we're living out a dream and we woke up a bit and thought hey, we're dreaming
07:41 Well, this doesn't seem sort of mystical and doesn't make sense. It's well
07:46 then the rational mind starts to criticize it out of existence and
07:49 While you're not going to criticize the if you criticize the dream out of existence, all you end up with is a nightmare
07:54 So that's what you'll replace the dream with is the nightmare
08:00 So look out so when people say I believe in the science. Yeah. Yeah
08:05 Thoughts on that comment that much no
08:10 Science isn't something to believe in
08:12 That's not science
08:15 Science and science in its pure form in some sense is supposed to be value-free
08:19 So it can't tell us about what to do
08:22 it's not even supposed to and when it tries to it becomes politics or worse religion and
08:26 Then when people manipulate the science because it's telling us what to do
08:30 Then people distrust the science and then the great that's how that's not good people trusted scientists mostly, you know
08:37 And that's because most scientists were pretty trustworthy. They were really committed to the truth in their narrow domain and
08:43 Stayed out of the political to the degree that that was possible. But now the universities they all insist
08:48 Everything is political. It's like oh, so are you gonna politicize God? Are you and maybe that's your goal?
08:55 You just keep mucking about and see what happens with that idea
09:00 So that is what we're going to find out because that is what we're doing. It's not wise
09:07 It's not wise there's the higher and the lower
09:09 And when the lower essence into the higher well all hell breaks loose and the nightmare reigns
09:15 No bad idea humility
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