Senator Win Gatchalian | The Source - video Dailymotion

CNN Philippines

Some senators want the NGCP's franchise revoked as they dig deeper into the massive Panay Island blackout.  Pinky Webb speaks with Senate Committee on Energy Vice Chairman Win Gatchalian.  The charter change debate heats up with one lawmaker seeking to probe alleged 'payoffs' and 'misrepresentations' in a signature campaign.   Visit our website for more #NewsYouCanTrust: https://www.cnnphilippines.com/  Follow our social media pages:  • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CNNPhilippines • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cnnphilippines/ • Twitter: https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines

Transcript

00:00 Welcome to The Source where we combine the headlines with in-depth conversations with

00:06 the newsmakers themselves. I'm Pinky Webb. Today on the program, some senators want the

00:11 NGCP's franchise revoked as they dig deeper into the massive Panay Island blackout. Senate

00:17 Committee on Energy Vice Chairman Wynne Gachalian joins us in the program. The charter change

00:23 debate heats up with one lawmaker seeking to probe alleged payoffs and misrepresentations

00:29 in a signature campaign. And the Commission on Elections denies the additional 12 billion

00:34 peso budget this year is intended for Cha-Cha. COMELEC Chairman George Garcia tells us more

00:40 later in the show.

00:51 Some senators are calling for the revocation of the National Grid Corporation of the Philippines

00:55 franchise over last week's blackout in Western Visayas. During a Senate hearing, the NGCP

01:00 insisted grid conditions were normal before the power outage, but lawmakers weren't buying

01:05 that explanation. Let's go straight to the source of the story. We have the Vice Chairman

01:10 of the Senate Committee on Energy Senator Wynne Gachalian. Senator Wynne, thanks so

01:13 much for your time. Welcome back to The Source, sir.

01:17 Thank you, Pinky. Thank you for inviting me. Happy New Year.

01:19 Happy New Year to you. While on break, the senator is still on break and congressman

01:25 as well. You together with some other senators had to attend, well, attended rather this

01:29 hearing yesterday by the Committee on Energy, you being the vice chairman, Senator Rafi

01:34 Tufo being the chairman, into this massive blackout that happened in Panay. Siguro, sir,

01:42 let's start with this now just to refresh our memories. It all started with the tripping

01:46 of the Panay Energy Development Corporation or PEDC. Senator Wynne, siguro bakit hu ba

01:53 nag-trip? Let's start with that. Bakit nag-trip itong PEDC?

01:58 Okay. Typically, from what I see in the past, based on reports and also my conversation

02:06 with plant experts, a typical problem with coal-fired power plants is what they call

02:15 boiler tube leak, because it's so hot. This type of thermal technology is so hot that

02:22 boilers leak or there are issues regarding leakages in their system. So this is actually

02:29 the root cause of the unplanned outage of PEDC.

02:35 And that's a fact, sir? That's a fact, yeah. That's a fact. That's a report coming from

02:41 PEDC themselves and also from ERC. But that's not the end of the story, Pinky, as you know

02:49 that it cascaded because that plant went out. The system operator, in this case, NGCP, should

02:59 have reacted to balance the grid because, I'll keep it very simple, the system operator

03:07 needs to always balance supply and demand. But since supply went down and demand remains

03:13 high, the entire grid became unstable or imbalanced or unbalanced, on what they call it. And because

03:22 the grid was not balanced, it created a domino effect on the other plants and the other plants

03:31 tripped. Six plants went out also, and that created a zero supply into the grid and that

03:40 created the massive blackout in Panay Island.

03:43 Okay, thanks for that explanation. But I want to find out, was the trip of PEDC the

03:51 cause of the trip of six other plants, sir? That? Or was it NGCP's inaction? Supposed

04:05 inaction.

04:08 Definitely it started with PEDC. That's why, in my view, there are two accountable

04:14 actors in this incident. Number one is PEDC, or the power plant, and number two, the system

04:21 operator, NGCP. Because NGCP could have done something, could have implemented protocols

04:29 to avoid a system-wide collapse. What happened here is the entire system collapsed. And this

04:35 is because NGCP basically didn't do anything. If you follow the hearing yesterday, they

04:41 were insisting that there's no problem with the grid, normal langing grid, there's no

04:45 problem with the grid, therefore we should not do anything. But the grid is not normal

04:49 anymore. Under the Philippine grid code, the grid was under an emergency state already

04:56 because one of the plants conked out, one of the plants went down, and because of that

05:02 emergency state, NGCP should have implemented manual load dropping to reduce demand and

05:09 again balance the grid. But that didn't happen, so it created that domino effect.

05:13 Okay. I did catch portions of the Senate hearing yesterday, and I know that you particularly

05:19 said that they should have implemented this so-called manual load dropping because I believe

05:25 because of PEDC, there was a loss of 55, is that right, Sen Win? 55 megawatts?

05:30 Yes, 55 megawatts. Okay. So, in simple words, here's where I

05:35 need to find out more. NGCP was saying upon their checking, as you mentioned a while ago,

05:42 the grid was stable. So, please explain to me, when NGCP said that the grid should be

05:49 in a state of emergency, they checked, they saw that the grid was stable, what was expected

05:54 of them? Okay. Well, that's where the debate lies,

06:00 and that's where the discussion revolved around because NGCP is insisting that the grid is

06:07 in a normal state. That means, no problem. If there's no problem, then I don't have to

06:12 do anything. But in the Philippine grid code, if you look at the grid code, there are certain

06:19 conditions there that dictates what is the status of the grid. One of the, again, I'll

06:26 make it layman. In the grid code, if one plant goes out, conks out or goes out unplanned,

06:33 then the grid enters into an alert or an emergency state. And then there are protocols after.

06:39 If the grid enters into an emergency state, then the system operators have protocols to

06:46 follow, one of which is to do manual road dropping. That's an option that the system

06:51 operator can do. But because they're insisting that the grid is normal, they didn't do anything.

06:58 And that led to a system-wide collapse because if demand is higher than supply, it will trip

07:04 the other plants. And that's what happened. Six plants went out. Even the submarine cable

07:10 went out because of the tripping. And because there's zero supply of power going into the

07:16 grid, the entire island went into a blackout. But Senator Nguyen, that's where I'm very,

07:23 I would say, confused about. I know this is not as simple as it seems. I've talked to

07:28 you about the energy situation in the Philippines for a very long time. You were chairman of

07:33 the committee on energy in the Senate. And I know you've studied this. You've even gone

07:38 abroad to check situations abroad. And I just have a simple question. Is there a simple

07:45 answer to this, sir? When a power plant trips, should the NGCP take action? Like what you're

07:56 saying, should there be a manual load drop once a power plant trips?

08:02 Yes, definitely. That's within the grid code. Meaning, the grid code is the Bible on how

08:10 the grid should be operated. And the grid should always be stable. It should be stable

08:17 all the time. In simple terms, I'm going to keep this very simple. Meaning, supply and

08:23 demand should be always balanced. But you cannot avoid, and we've seen this here in

08:28 Luzon, you cannot avoid power plants conking out or power plants going on to force outage.

08:36 Most of the time, it's unavoidable because of mechanical conditions. And that's where

08:43 the system operator, NGCP, should come into action. Meaning, if one plant goes down and

08:50 demand still remains up, you need to do something in order to balance it.

08:54 Somehow balance. Yeah.

08:55 That's why here in Luzon, we often hear, Pinky, about manual load dropping.

09:03 Yes.

09:04 Manual load dropping means that you isolate one area so that it will not spread into the

09:08 other areas. Because demand is still very high, you reduce demand in one area so that

09:14 it will not spread into other parts of your grid. But that didn't happen in Luzon, in

09:20 Panay. Demand remained high. And then because demand remained high, the other plants tripped

09:29 and went down, and it spread all over that Panay grid.

09:32 So I know there still needs to be a lot of discussion and possible hearings on this.

09:40 But for now, you are looking at those two, the Panay Energy Development Corporation,

09:49 PEDC, and the NGCP that are possible culprits or the ones to blame for now, for what happened

09:57 to Panay.

09:58 Yes.

09:59 Okay. Senator, I just need to take a short break. This is The Source on CNN Philippines.

10:02 Please stay tuned.

10:09 You're watching The Source on CNN Philippines. I'm Pinky Webb. Our source today is Senator

10:13 Wynne Gatchalian. Senator, I'll be quick. So, Mayor Trenas and the Governor-Defensor,

10:19 Mayor Trenas was saying that Iloilo City experienced or had incurred, rather, about a 1.5 to 2

10:26 trillion loss, economic loss. Can they be compensated one way or another, sir? Sir,

10:34 I think you're on mute.

10:37 Unfortunately, no. They cannot be compensated. And in fact, the penalty that will be imposed

10:47 on whether it's the power plant or NGCP or both cannot be used to compensate the losses

10:55 of the residents in Panay. In fact, that is one of my proposals to the committee to amend

11:01 IPERA so that economic losses can be compensated through the penalties imposed.

11:08 Okay. What about, just a last question on this, is it going too far when some people

11:15 say the franchise of NGCP should be reviewed? What is your stand on this?

11:20 Well, there are, because this is not an isolated case, Pinky. In fact, let me expand the explanation

11:28 on the Panay incident. There are two very important interconnections, or there are two

11:33 very important projects that NGCP should have been, should have completed in 2019-2020.

11:40 This is the Mindanao to Visayas interconnection. There's a surplus of power in Mindanao, about

11:46 1000 plus megawatts that can be transmitted to Panay. And also the Cebu-Negros-Panay interconnection.

11:53 There's a surplus of power also in Negros because of RE that can be transmitted to Panay.

11:59 So the concept here is if these two projects were online last 2020, we could have transmitted

12:07 excess power either from Mindanao or from Negros to augment the deficiencies in Panay.

12:15 But that project has been long delayed. It should have been online 2020, it's now 2024,

12:22 and it's still not online. So the delayed project is one of the heavy grounds or serious

12:30 grounds on why NGCP's franchise should be reviewed and if warranted, revoked and given

12:38 to a much more competent operator.

12:41 But this is an issue, Senator Nguyen, that you still want answers. You still want to

12:47 find out more why there was a delay. And you have not concluded in any form or manner that

12:54 their franchise should be revoked.

12:57 Well, the delayed project is a conclusion already. In our past hearing, it's official

13:05 that 50 plus projects of NGCP's were delayed. In fact, they were penalized for that delay,

13:15 for those delays. And those are official. But we cannot look at the Panay incident in

13:21 isolation. We have to look at the entire transmission operation. And the expansion projects is one

13:28 of the most important facets in operating the transmission. Our country is growing,

13:34 our consumption of electricity is growing at about 4 to 5%. And because of that growth,

13:40 our transmission assets should catch up, should be able to grow in tandem with our electricity

13:48 consumption.

13:49 But that's not happening. If you remember, the incident in Luzon is also caused by a

13:53 delayed project. Now in Panay, it's also created by a delayed project. And there are several

13:58 delayed projects that are creating this uncertain scenario or uncertain situation of constant

14:09 power supply.

14:10 All right. And Siguro, just to end this particular conversation on this topic, sir, when we talk

14:17 about the NGCP, there is, from my understanding, a government contract. They have a contract

14:25 with government, and they have a franchise contract. I think the government, the contract

14:32 with government is 25 years, and then the franchise is about 50 years. So I wish we

14:39 had time to talk about this. But one quick topic, I just need to jump into this, sir.

14:46 There's a controversy on signing. I just want to get your reaction on this. In Valenzuela,

14:51 is there anyone signing? Did your brother tell you about this?

14:56 Yes, there is. In fact, my brother mentioned this, and also our other congressman, Congressman

15:06 Martinez also mentioned this. But the Valenzuelans don't want to sign because out of deference

15:11 to me, I'm their first senator in Valenzuela, and Valenzuelans feel that it's not correct

15:21 to marginalize or even abolish the Senate because they're proud of their senator. But

15:29 beyond that, beyond that, Pinky, I've been following this issue in the news. And what's

15:36 really concerning to me is the money involved and the alleged corruption involved. I heard

15:43 Congressman Lagman and Senator Aimee in various media outlets talking about millions of pesos

15:50 being handed out or hundreds of pesos in exchange to sign that petition. And that's not the

15:57 very essence of people's initiative. The people's initiative is for the people to put forward

16:04 amendments in order to improve their lives, to improve our constitution. And it should

16:12 be free from political as well as financial consideration. Some people say that the P.I.

16:20 is no longer people's initiative, it's a peso initiative now because of the money being

16:24 used to exchange for signatures. So because of that allegation, there's now a cloud of

16:31 doubt whether the intention is noble or not, or whether it's only going to benefit certain

16:37 quarters and not the whole country.

16:40 Would you support, should there be a Senate probe into this? I think Senator Aimee wants

16:45 one.

16:46 Yes, I think Senator Aimee and Senator Pimentel also mentioned this. I will join the hearing

16:56 on this because it concerns also Valenzuela and also the rest of the country. And again,

17:00 the very essence of people's initiative is for the people to put forth improvements in

17:07 the constitution, amendments in the constitution, in order to improve the lives of everyone,

17:12 not only to improve the lives of certain quarters. And if you talk about money flowing, that

17:18 means someone is spending in order to get those signatures.

17:22 Any idea who? Any idea who could this be, sir?

17:25 The very essence of people's initiative.

17:28 Do you have any idea or any suspects who this could be? Because basically they're saying

17:33 this is really an initiative of the mayors.

17:34 I'm only relying my information on news reports for now. That's why I would attend that hearing

17:39 so that we can get more information and find the truth.

17:43 Do you believe what they are saying that this is really the initiative of the mayors?

17:50 Well, our mayor is not doing anything. Again, because I don't know with the other mayors.

18:00 I don't have any information about that.

18:03 Senator Wingachelian, thank you so much for your time. Hope to speak to you again. Take

18:06 care, sir.

18:08 Thank you. Thank you.

18:09 And up ahead, we speak with COMELEC Chairman George Garcia on claims billions were inserted

18:12 into the poll body's budget for CHACHA. This is The Source on CNN Philippines. Please stay

18:17 tuned.

18:17 [MUSIC PLAYING]

Senator Win Gatchalian | The Source

Category

Transcript

Comments

Recommended