00:00 To continue talking about this day and following the results,
00:04 we welcome Danny Shaw, professor of international studies
00:07 at the Public University of New York.
00:10 Hello, Danny.
00:10 Welcome to our special program.
00:13 Danny, can you hear me?
00:19 Yeah, I can hear you.
00:20 How are you doing?
00:21 I find Danny here celebrating alongside our Venezuelan
00:25 compatriots the landslide victory
00:28 that they reached in this referendum.
00:30 Danny, to begin our exchange here,
00:33 our conversation in this special program, how do you describe,
00:36 how do you see the developing, the holding of this referendum
00:39 and now that we know the results, what they represent?
00:44 This is an important demonstration
00:47 of Venezuelan unity before the ongoing hostility of the US
00:52 government and of private capital
00:56 that wants a slice of this extremely rich Ezequiel region.
01:01 The Venezuelan people and their Bolivarian leadership
01:04 do not have any beef with their neighbors in Guyana.
01:09 Their beef is with Exxon Mobil and these corporations
01:14 who for decades now and centuries
01:17 have sought to divide and conquer in order
01:21 to control one of the most mineral rich and gas
01:25 and oil rich regions in the entire world,
01:27 and that is South America.
01:30 So to see this resounding show of unity
01:33 is certainly significant.
01:34 I think we have to contextualize this latest US proxy--
01:38 it's not a proxy war, but certainly it's
01:44 a proxy informational war using Guyana.
01:48 We have to contextualize it because Brazil
01:50 has gone left last year with the victory of Lula over Bolsonaro
01:54 and over fascism.
01:56 And look at Colombia.
01:57 Colombia has historically been the largest US base
02:03 in the region, more than nine US bases in Colombia.
02:07 And they haven't been able to weaponize Colombia and Brazil
02:10 in the same way.
02:11 So now they're trying to weaponize Guyana.
02:14 And he's seeing the will of the Venezuelan people that
02:20 came out peacefully to vote.
02:22 And as you were saying, the discourse from the Guyana side,
02:25 they are afraid they're part of a victim,
02:28 that they feel they're going to be invaded,
02:31 they're going to be attacked by Venezuela.
02:32 But this has been a stance that has been clearly defended
02:35 by the Venezuelan authorities, that the situation,
02:38 the dispute has to be resolved through the 1966 Geneva
02:42 Agreement, only through dialogue and negotiations
02:45 to settle this peacefully.
02:47 There's never been an expression of aggression against Guyana.
02:50 So what is the intention of Guyana acting
02:54 as the victim in this role?
02:57 That's because Laura Richardson in the US Southern Command,
03:01 as well as the Germans and the imperialists of yesteryear,
03:06 who continue to want to devour the Ezequiel region
03:10 for their own self-interest, and all of Venezuela,
03:13 and all of South America.
03:17 This vote shows that the Venezuelan people are
03:20 standing firm in defense of their national interests.
03:25 What a shame that President Irfan Ali in Guyana,
03:30 the Guyanese people are a proud people.
03:32 What a long history of anti-imperialist struggle,
03:36 from President Chetty Jagen to Dr. Walter Rodney,
03:42 and of course, the slave rebellions in centuries past.
03:48 I think the Guyanese people can also
03:50 see that they are being used by the imperialist powers
03:55 with these divide and conquer strategies.
03:57 But nationalism can be a very deceptive thing.
04:01 So popular education and critical information
04:07 and social media coverage is so important right now,
04:12 at a time that they're trying to use this small, often forgotten
04:16 Caribbean and South American nation against its much bigger
04:20 neighbor, Venezuela.
04:22 But to insinuate that the Venezuelans somehow
04:24 have a military intention, that they somehow represent
04:28 a threat to Guyana, is ridiculous.
04:31 This referendum today was more of a diplomatic exercise
04:35 to show that the Venezuelan people don't trust
04:39 the International Court of Justice, which
04:41 may have a high-faluting-sounding name,
04:45 but certainly does not represent justice
04:47 and does not represent a truly international community.
04:50 When they say international community,
04:52 it's a euphemism that means US interests,
04:56 along with their underlings like the English and the French.
05:01 Daniel, I'm going to ask you please to hold on a moment,
05:03 because we have to connect with our special set
05:06 in the headquarters in Caracas, where we'll continue
05:09 talking about the referendum.
05:12 But let's quickly go with the set in Caracas.
05:15 Sorry.
05:15 Let's now continue talking with Danny Shull,
05:18 professor of international study at the Public
05:20 University of New York.
05:22 We were previously talking with the professor,
05:24 but we had to cut short the conversation.
05:27 But now we retake the dialogue with Professor Danny Shull.
05:31 Professor, can you hear us?
05:33 100% loud and clear from the belly of the beast
05:36 here in New York City.
05:37 Perfect.
05:38 That sounds like Jose Marti once said in his writings.
05:43 Danny, continue talking about the Esequibo and the future
05:48 that it might bring after this referendum,
05:50 also taking into account the region,
05:53 because this is not only something that involves
05:56 Venezuela and Guyana, we could say, but also the region.
05:59 We have CARICOM.
06:00 We have all the different regional groups.
06:03 And how can the future come after today's
06:06 important referendum?
06:09 Well, as the two analysts were laying out,
06:12 the global class struggle continues
06:15 to play out across South America and across the Caribbean.
06:20 We saw a real pivot to the right with Javier Millet,
06:25 the latest Trump Bolsonaro wannabe,
06:29 and his victory in Argentina.
06:31 That came as very tough news.
06:34 But we've seen big victories in Brazil about a year ago.
06:41 Peru is going through a very tough time.
06:44 This week is the one-year anniversary
06:47 of the coup in Peru.
06:49 So the US, whether it's a Democratic regime
06:52 or a Republican regime, is going to continue
06:54 to look for proxy forces that are
06:57 hostile to the Bolivarians.
06:59 The Bolivarians in Venezuela have received
07:03 the most hostile treatment.
07:05 Why?
07:05 Because they're the spearhead of South American unity
07:09 and South American integration.
07:11 And despite the most cruel sanctions
07:15 that began in 2014 under the Barack Obama regime,
07:20 the Venezuelan people have pushed through.
07:23 They've got rid of this Juan Guaido proxy force
07:27 that Trump and then Biden had been pushing for so long.
07:32 So despite the hybrid war, despite the theft
07:37 of $2 billion in Venezuelan gold by the Bank of England,
07:41 despite all of the threats and intimidation,
07:44 we can see that the Bolivarian people continue
07:46 to stand by their leadership in fight
07:50 for a unified, anti-imperialist South America.
07:55 Danny, speaking of the US foreign policy,
07:58 we have to talk about the Mongol doctrine, which
08:01 can be a very clear example here in this case of what
08:04 is happening.
08:05 And in this occasion, coincidentally in Venezuela,
08:08 there was a forum celebrating the 200 years of resistance
08:12 against the Mongol doctrine.
08:14 How present, how in current times,
08:16 is the Mongol doctrine still active, if it is,
08:19 and what is its impact on the region today?
08:24 Yeah, today the Monroe doctrine could
08:26 be called the Southern Command doctrine, or the Laura
08:29 Richardson doctrine, or the Biden doctrine.
08:31 They continue to have no respect for the economic and resource
08:36 sovereignty and political, diplomatic, and military
08:40 sovereignty of the Venezuelan people,
08:42 of the diverse nations of South America.
08:45 And when countries like Iran or Russia
08:48 try to break this hermetically sealed US
08:51 blockade of Venezuela, the US again
08:55 responds with aggression surrounding Venezuela
08:59 with US gunboats, with nine US military bases in Colombia,
09:05 another 11 US military bases in Panama.
09:08 But because things have shifted to the left in Colombia,
09:12 and because there is social tumult led by workers
09:16 and students in Panama, the US intelligence community
09:21 and the Pentagon and the State Department
09:24 and the foreign policy establishment
09:25 are constantly surveilling where their weak points are.
09:29 And Venezuela has been one of their biggest weak points.
09:32 That's why in 2015, ExxonMobil, trying
09:36 to conspire with their Guyanese lackeys,
09:39 who they're trying to buy off with the promise
09:42 of handsome profits from the exploitation of the ECEQIBU,
09:46 that region, that's why this vote, this resounding yes
09:51 on all five votes today in this national referendum,
09:55 comes as an important countermeasure to the ICJ's
10:00 decision recently saying that this region belongs to Guyana.
10:04 But how can it belong to Guyana when all of these borders
10:08 were drawn up in London, in Paris,
10:10 and in the colonial metropolises and not in Caracas
10:15 and not in Georgetown, where these agreements have
10:18 to be hashed out by representatives
10:20 of the people of those respected nations?
10:25 Venezuela stands on the side that the Geneva Agreement is
10:29 the only path to settle the dispute between Venezuela
10:33 and Guyana because they outright reject the 1899 arbitration
10:38 award that was pretty much negotiated between the States
10:41 and the British Empire, leaving completely
10:44 Venezuela off the negotiating table
10:46 without a say in that moment.
10:49 Now, seeing the images, Danny, of the celebrations
10:52 of the people, I need to ask you,
10:55 is Venezuela an example of how democratic processes should
10:59 be held in the world?
11:01 As we saw, the authorities have expressed the security
11:04 and efficiency of the electoral system.
11:07 And every time that Venezuela goes to the polls,
11:09 we see them celebrating as if it was a national party
11:13 to express their right in the polls of the will of the future
11:17 they want for the country.
11:19 Yeah, contrary to all of the rhetoric and propaganda
11:24 that we hear in Las Entrañas de la Bestia,
11:26 to quote Jose Marti here in The Belly of the Beast,
11:29 we don't hear one positive word about Venezuela.
11:32 Every New York Times headline and Daily News and New York
11:36 Post headline is completely anti-Venezuelan.
11:40 It's complete war and propaganda seeking
11:46 to justify more invasions and occupations of Latin America
11:50 as if the 200-plus invasions in the last 200 years reflecting
11:55 the arrogance of the Monroe Doctrine was not enough.
11:59 But any visitor to Venezuela can feel the people's patriotism,
12:05 the people's pride in their country, a super-rich country
12:10 that the people want to develop.
12:12 And that's what this democratic vote,
12:14 that's what this national referendum was all about.
12:17 The Venezuelan people, I don't think there's a way for us here
12:21 in the imperial center to ever imagine what the Venezuelan
12:25 people have gone through in the past decade
12:27 since Hugo Chavez's death.
12:29 Nicolás Maduro has had almost an impossible job
12:33 keeping this nation of 30 million on its feet.
12:37 Despite the cruelest of blockades,
12:40 and as part of the US hypocrisy, they
12:42 deny that there even is a diplomatic, military,
12:44 and economic blockade and hybrid war on the Venezuelan people.
12:48 So certainly today is a victory not just
12:52 for the humble forces within Venezuela,
12:54 but for workers across the world.
12:56 Danny, seeing the results, seeing everything
13:01 that we have been talking about and everything
13:03 that has been analyzed in this special program,
13:06 I have to ask you, in your opinion, what comes next?
13:10 Well, there's a big presidential election coming up next year.
13:15 The PSUV has decided that their candidate will be Nicolás
13:19 Maduro, and the opposition continues
13:22 to be fractionalized in many ways.
13:27 And they continue to do the bidding of their Washington
13:30 sponsors.
13:32 Certainly, DC is highly embarrassed and, again,
13:35 disgraced in the South American nation of 30 million
13:40 after the Juan Guaido option went down the tubes.
13:43 Imagine in 2019, Trump in the most dictatorial,
13:48 tyrannical, despotic of ways trying
13:51 to impose a dictator on the Venezuelan people,
13:55 thinking they could do the same thing they did
13:57 during the dirty war to Uruguay and Paraguay and Argentina
14:01 in the 1970s and '80s.
14:03 So those who believe in the Mutton Road Doctrine
14:07 will never stop.
14:08 They'll try everything to divide and conquer
14:13 the region precisely because they won't stop drooling
14:17 over this immense wealth.
14:18 We know that Venezuela is up there
14:20 with Saudi Arabia and Iraq and Iran.
14:23 And we've seen what the US has been
14:26 willing to do with the bloodbath,
14:27 with the genocide in Gaza, in Palestine,
14:31 the invasions of Iraq in 1991 and 2003,
14:35 a similar type of hybrid war against Iran.
14:39 So really, it's no different.
14:41 And that's why this vote comes as a victory,
14:44 not just for Venezuela, but for the one third
14:47 of the people of the world who wake up every morning
14:50 under sanctions, very cruel sanctions,
14:53 that seek to create huge headaches
14:57 and economic disintegration in all of the blockaded countries
15:02 from Managua to Tehran to Beijing to Moscow.
15:07 But this multipolar world is certainly on the horizon.
15:11 And I think today's vote in Venezuela was a piece of this.
15:15 And the sooner we have a pluripolar world,
15:17 as Hugo Chavez laid out some 20 years ago,
15:22 the sooner that we can find peace,
15:24 peace for the Palestinian people and peace
15:26 for all of the blockaded, oppressed nations
15:28 that I mentioned.
15:31 Thank you for your impulse, Danny Cho,
15:33 for this special program on the referendum held
15:37 in defense of the Guayana Esequibo of Venezuela.
15:39 Thank you, Teli Sua.
15:42 Thank you for your coverage.
15:43 Oh, it was always our pleasure to have you here with us.
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