A department worries about the country's ability to defend itself against hackers and scammers with a slashed budget.
And the House and Senate deny claims they spent confidential funds.
Pinky Webb speaks with Albay 1st District Representative Edcel Lagman.
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And the House and Senate deny claims they spent confidential funds.
Pinky Webb speaks with Albay 1st District Representative Edcel Lagman.
Visit our website for more #NewsYouCanTrust: https://www.cnnphilippines.com/
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• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CNNPhilippines
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NewsTranscript
00:00 You're watching The Source on CNN Philippines on Pinky Web.
00:05 Days after a small committee in the House of Representatives scrapped all the confidential
00:09 funds of the Information and Communications Technology Department and four other agencies,
00:14 the DICT worries about its impact on the country's cybersecurity.
00:20 Senate Finance Panel Chair Sonny Angara says the move to realign the 2024 budget is not
00:25 yet final.
00:26 He adds senators have different stances, some want to keep the secret funds for some departments
00:31 untouched, so they need to reach a consensus.
00:35 Let's go straight to The Source.
00:37 Alibay First District Representative Edsel Lagman.
00:41 Congressman Lagman, maraming salamat po sa inyong oras and welcome to The Source, sir.
00:47 Good morning, Pinky.
00:48 All right.
00:49 Let's just do a brief overview on what the small committee did, Congressman.
00:55 A total of P194 billion was realigned by the small committee for other important projects
01:04 in Dihuba, but I want to first zero in because this is a lot of numbers on this P1.23 billion
01:11 confidential funds that was removed from the OVP, the DEPED, the DICT, the DA, and the
01:18 DFA.
01:19 That means these four departments have zero confidential funds.
01:23 Number one, Congressman, do you agree with this move?
01:28 Definitely.
01:29 It has been a long advocacy of a number of legislators that we eliminate the confidential
01:40 funds from the budget of agencies whose mandate would not include the utilization of confidential
01:51 or surveillance expenses.
01:53 I totally agree.
01:55 I think we should be able to maintain such zero allocation.
02:01 But the next move is to determine how wise were the reallocations made to other agencies.
02:10 All right.
02:11 I want to go there too because marami pong dinagdag na allocations, for example, rice
02:17 subsidy, dole, et cetera.
02:20 You said that you agree with this.
02:21 I wanted to find out from you.
02:24 Do you also, because you said you agree, that means you agreed with the zero confidential
02:28 funds for the DICT?
02:33 That's correct because the DICT in the first place has a very low absorptive capacity among
02:39 the agencies we have reviewed.
02:42 And number two, the DICT can avail of the services of agencies which have confidential
02:54 and intelligence funds.
02:56 I think there should be a sharing of information.
03:01 Where can they avail such information?
03:04 They can avail, for example, from the National Bureau of Investigation, from the military
03:10 and police authorities.
03:11 So there will be duplication of these activities.
03:16 All right.
03:18 Definitely, these agencies should be available.
03:22 Okay.
03:23 I bring that up because yesterday I had Secretary Ivan Uy and he was definitely unhappy with
03:29 this and he wants to appeal it to lawmakers to return the confidential funds.
03:34 We were talking about this happens, taking out their well, zero confidential funds for
03:40 the DICT in the face of this PhilHealth data breach.
03:45 And also yesterday, the news on the PSA, a portion of their system also breached.
03:55 Is it really wise to take out?
03:58 Do they not need these confidential funds at the moment?
04:02 Well, as I've said, they don't have to have this budget on confidential or intelligence
04:12 funds in their outlay.
04:15 They could avail of the services of expert agencies like the National Bureau of Investigation,
04:23 the military and the police authorities so that they could be assisted in their need
04:29 for surveillance.
04:31 So when we talk about cybersecurity, you're saying that they should tap the experts from
04:36 the NBI.
04:37 Yes, there is a cybersecurity office and the NBI, so they can do that.
04:45 There will be no duplication of allocations.
04:49 Okay.
04:50 Another point that he raised, I'm not sure if you would be aware of this, but I know
04:56 you scrutinized the budget.
04:58 They have a budget supposed to be for cybersecurity, which was way back in 2022, it was at one
05:05 billion pesos.
05:07 And for 2024, the proposal is 300 million pesos.
05:11 Basically, that's about 70% less.
05:15 He says they need the budget for their antivirus software, etc.
05:21 Can this be returned, restored to the DICT because it may cause some problems on the,
05:31 well, basically on the cybersecurity of the DICT?
05:36 Well, nothing is cast in stone.
05:42 And I think they can appeal, but as far as I'm concerned, we should maintain the zero
05:50 allocation.
05:52 And again, I would like to reiterate that they can avail of the expert services of agencies
06:00 who are having their own confidentiality response, which they should be able to share to agencies
06:09 who would need their expertise.
06:11 Moving forward, let's look at where the money will go.
06:15 This 1.2 billion pesos that was stripped off the five departments or agencies will go to
06:21 NICA at 300 million, NSC at 100 million, you have the Philippine Coast Guard at 200 million,
06:30 and Pag-asa at 400 million.
06:32 Are you happy with this or do you want to add more?
06:36 For example, to Pag-asa, to the Philippine Coast Guard, to the National Security Council?
06:42 I am not happy with this reallocation.
06:45 I think the 981 million is too huge.
06:50 And this should be reduced to amount which should be available not to all of these agencies,
07:02 but particularly to either the National Intelligence Coordinating Agency or the Office of the Executive
07:10 Director of the National Security Council.
07:14 And this, either of these two agencies, again, can share their surveillance and intelligence
07:22 information to the other agencies like the Philippine Coast Guard and the Department
07:27 of Transportation, which is supposed to develop and expand the Pag-asa Airport.
07:35 They don't need their own confidential passports for this because they can avail of the services
07:43 again of either the National Security Council, its Executive Director, or the National Intelligence
07:50 Communication Agency.
07:52 Definitely, I am for the reduction of the 981 million appropriated for these agencies
08:00 supposed to be in charge of protecting the Philippine territorial rights in the West
08:06 Philippine Sea.
08:08 Because to my mind, no amount of confidential and intelligence funds to these agencies would
08:16 be able to subdue or tame a recidivist aggressor in China.
08:22 Congressman Lagman, I hope you don't mind.
08:24 I got a little confused, I'll be honest, with what you said.
08:28 You said this 900 plus million pesos that is going to be allotted to NICA, NSC, PCG,
08:36 and Pag-asa.
08:37 You said they should be allotted where again?
08:41 Could you summarize that please?
08:42 Did you want that NICA and NSC come together for their surveillance or was it the other
08:48 way around?
08:49 First, the amount of 981 million is too huge.
08:54 Number two, it should be allocated either to NICA or the Executive Director's Office
09:02 of the National Security Council in a reduced amount.
09:05 Three, either of these two agencies should be able to share their surveillance and intelligence
09:11 information to the other agencies like the Philippine Coast Guard and the Department
09:16 of Transportation.
09:17 And next, no amount of intelligence or confidential funds will be able to subdue or tame a recidivist
09:28 aggressor in China.
09:30 We should be able to look for other measures in order to achieve our end of enforcing the
09:39 arbitral award in the Philippines where many other countries are supporting the Philippines
09:44 claim.
09:45 Thank you for that summary, Congressman.
09:48 I get it now.
09:49 We just rather need to take a very short break.
09:52 This is The Source on CNN Philippines.
09:55 Please stay tuned.
10:01 You're watching The Source on CNN Philippines.
10:03 I'm Pinky Webb.
10:04 Our source today, Albay.
10:05 First District Representative Edsel Lagman.
10:07 Congressman Lagman, you said the 900 million plus confidential funds are too big.
10:12 What is acceptable?
10:13 Well, probably half of that or even lesser should be acceptable because I have, as I
10:22 have said, no amount of intelligence and confidential funds will be able to tame an aggressor in
10:30 China.
10:31 But won't it help?
10:32 We have diplomacy as well as dialogue, but we have failed.
10:37 So we should be able to have other means like economic sanctions to be imposed by the Philippines
10:43 and inter-countries in order to be able to get the implementation of the award.
10:52 And I think economic sanctions will fall hard on China now that it is experiencing an economic
10:59 meltdown.
11:01 But can't it be a parallel approach, Congressman?
11:05 Because when initially this was talked about that some of the confidential funds need to
11:10 be realigned to be able to go to agencies that protect the West Philippine Sea, you
11:16 have the Philippine Coast Guard who supposedly only had confidential funds amounting to about
11:22 10 million pesos.
11:23 And then if this pushes through, they will have confidential funds now amounting to 200
11:29 million pesos.
11:30 Wouldn't that help even boost their morale, Congressman?
11:38 Well, yes, it could, but it would be proper to channel that either to the National Security
11:48 Council's what you call the executive director or to the NICA.
12:02 And these agencies or either one of them can share their intelligence and surveillance
12:09 information to the Coast Guard.
12:11 So there will be no duplication of appropriations.
12:15 In other words, really.
12:16 And they can take responsibility.
12:19 Yeah.
12:20 So basically, really, just go to the NICA or the NSC and have them take care of the
12:25 surveillance for the other departments as well.
12:28 But quickly, we were looking at 4.8 originally of the confidential funds.
12:32 I'm not even talking about intelligence funds because at CONFI and Intel funds amount to
12:36 about 10 billion.
12:38 So 4.8 confidential funds minus the 1.2 more or less is about 3.6 left.
12:46 Is this OK?
12:47 Is this adequate?
12:48 Or do you think they could have tapped more confidential funds from these departments
12:53 and realigned them to other departments?
12:56 Well, definitely, they could tap more and pull together all of these deleted funds so
13:07 that we could rechannel them to economic and social services like education, health, labor
13:16 and social services.
13:18 OK.
13:19 We appreciate that they have done this to a certain extent, but there should be more
13:24 allocation to these economic and social services.
13:29 Which you mentioned during the first part of the interview.
13:32 If we look at when I started the interview, I was talking about how much really was realigned.
13:39 That's 194 billion pesos.
13:42 Maybe some of us are not highlighting that.
13:44 And this money will go to these services such as for health, for indigent patients, education
13:54 as well, rice subsidy.
13:57 Among the agencies that are getting more funds, DOH, DA, DOLE, DSWD, do you see anything
14:08 wrong with how much each agency will be getting according to the study and the proposal made
14:18 by the small committee?
14:20 They should get more than what they are getting now.
14:25 Definitely when we advocated for the deletion of confidential funds from agencies who do
14:33 not deserve such funds, we wanted the reallocation made to socioeconomic services, not to security
14:43 agencies.
14:45 But definitely we can give some to some security agencies, but that deprives what is appropriately
14:55 needed by social and economic services like education, health, labor, and the Department
15:04 of Welfare.
15:08 And just a last question, Congressman, should intel funds also be tapped?
15:15 Because we're just talking about confidential funds.
15:19 Well, intelligence funds should be given properly to agencies which would need them.
15:30 So we are also advocating for the reduction of intel funds.
15:36 And most probably no agency should be untapped.
15:43 All right, Albay First District Representative Edsel Aguantzor, I wish we had more time,
15:48 but I hope to speak to you again.
15:50 Maraming salamat po sa inyong oras.
15:54 Thank you, Vicky.
15:55 And most probably we'll talk about what is called the "extraordinary expenses."
16:01 I wish we had time for that.
16:03 That's 1.6, how much is that, sir?
16:06 1.6 billion, huh, ba?
16:09 Yes, yes.
16:10 And definitely that is delimited by law, not only with respect to those who could use it,
16:17 but the amount to be used and the service and the nature of the expenses to be incurred.
16:22 Congressman, we'll have a part two, I promise.
16:24 Thank you for joining us here on The Source.
16:26 I'm Pinky Webb.
16:27 You're watching CNN Philippines.
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