00:00 I'm Damien Hines, I'm the Minister for Prisons and Probation.
00:03 Damien, tell us where we are and why you're here.
00:06 We're here at Hailing Island on this fantastic beach.
00:09 And we're here with a group of what's called unpaid work people on community payback.
00:15 And they are cleaning up this beach but doing it in a very systematic way,
00:18 working with the Marine Conservation Society to examine, to track the sorts of things that are coming in from the sea.
00:26 So the Marine Conservation Society can really track what's going on in terms of marine pollution.
00:31 It's a clear benefit for the beach and the environment and as you say the Marine Conservation Society will get valuable information.
00:36 But you're particularly keen on this kind of unpaid work, aren't you? Tell us why.
00:39 Yeah, look, it's really important. These are people on community sentences and it's really important to have an option
00:45 where you don't have to send someone to prison necessarily because that can sometimes make things worse from a very short sentence.
00:51 But a properly punitive community sentence which also really gives something back to communities.
00:56 That's why we call it community payback.
00:59 So community gets a cleaner beach, community gets cleared alleyways, it gets a painted village hall, it gets graffiti, cleared off a subway.
01:07 These are really tangible benefits. And as I say, also it is part of a punitive sentence, people giving back to society.
01:16 You're putting in more than £90 million to expand this scheme. Does that mean more community service orders and less prison?
01:22 It means there'll be more availability of unpaid work. So yeah, the money goes in really to paying, especially for supervisors
01:29 because obviously that's a really important part of this. I think there's lots more we can do with unpaid work.
01:35 I'd really encourage local authorities, parish councils, community groups. You can bid for these jobs to be done.
01:41 There's many different types of things that people on community payback can do.
01:46 Now the Prison Officers Association, as you know, have said that prison budgets have been cut in real terms by about £900 million since 2010.
01:53 They say prisons are overcrowded and it's making it a difficult, dangerous place for them to work. All sorts of pressures.
01:59 Is this part of the reason why you're doing this? Because the prisons are literally full.
02:03 Well, the work that prison officers do is incredibly important for all of our society.
02:07 Actually, since 2010, there were 2,000 fewer prisoners in overcrowded accommodation.
02:13 We've closed down some of those most overcrowded jails. We're investing in new ones.
02:18 Two have just opened, another under construction, three more in the planning process.
02:22 But actually, although you talk about prisons, people think first about buildings, but really it's about the people.
02:28 And that's why the work that prison officers do and other staff that work in prisons is so absolutely crucial to all of our society.
02:35 Are you going to build more prisons?
02:37 We are going to build more prisons. We have, as I say, three currently going through the planning process.
02:42 We've got one already under construction in Yorkshire.
02:46 And we want to make sure we've got a modern prison estate which does the best job it can in terms, yes, of punishing people,
02:53 but also helping to rehabilitate them so that when they come out, we've got a better chance of people not re-offending.
02:59 And that's ultimately what matters to our society.
03:01 Damian, thanks for talking to us today.
03:03 So, Alan, tell me why you're down on Hayling Island today.
03:07 So I'm supporting the government's community payback scheme, which means that local low-level offenders actually do something good in the community,
03:14 such as picking up rubbish on the beach rather than going to prison.
03:17 It is a punitive process, but actually it's also part of their rehabilitation as well.
03:21 So it's positive and they're doing really good work.
03:24 And I'm glad that we're working on Hayling to make sure the environment is protected and clean.
03:27 Why do you feel like it was important for you to attend today?
03:30 Well, I believe in making sure that our beach, which is a blue flag beach, is kept clean.
03:34 The offenders are doing a good job helping our council and other agencies.
03:39 It's also part of the rehabilitative process as well.
03:42 So it's important that offenders actually get re-inspired into the community and they can start that process by doing good work in the community.
03:48 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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