00:01The issue with these legal mechanisms that are used to protect reputation are really
00:08only open and available to those who have a lot of money and power.
00:13And of course there are times where personal privacy is absolutely necessary and I'm not
00:19suggesting that injunctions shouldn't exist, but when they are misused there is a problem
00:26and I think what we see here though was a process that was dealt with correctly in terms of
00:32the judge did not uphold it.
00:34You have, through your activism, managed to change some of the laws here in the UK, which
00:40is incredible, and now you're going to be going to Australia.
00:43Can you tell us what your plans are for Australia and how the laws there compare to somewhere
00:49like the UK?
00:49Yeah, well Australia, there are a lot of people in Australia who've been very forward in wanting
00:55to change laws around non-disclosure agreements and confidentiality, and I think as we discussed,
01:01the state of Victoria has changed the law around this, but it is the only state that has done
01:07that.
01:08You know, as a campaign we have done some work in Australia, but we're a very small campaign
01:12and I've had my hands quite full here in the UK, where we've managed to change four pieces
01:17of law, which when put together, dovetailed together, will basically make NDAs void in
01:23any cases, any criminal cases or any cases of harassment and discrimination.
01:30And there is definitely movement in Australia and there is definitely a willingness to change.
01:36And this, you know, this is going on around the world.
01:38And regulation's one thing, how important is it to change culture?
01:41As important, and that's why this moment is so important, because I think it's reaching
01:47a much wider audience.
01:49Basically, wherever there is some form of harm or misconduct that is going to harm a high
01:55profile individual or a corporate identity, reputation, you will find NDAs.
02:00And the misuse of NDAs is the issue, not their existence.
02:05They have a place.
02:06IP and trade secrets, personal privacy, all of those things have a place, but the law
02:11should not be abused against people who have been abused.
02:16And there have been people saying, you know, all this time since Me Too, you know, maybe
02:22the movement's failed.
02:23That's just part of a kind of conspiracy theory, male, toxic male narrative.
02:31Me Too has not failed.
02:33Me Too is going on every single day.
02:35Look at the laws that have changed in the last, it'll be the 10-year anniversary next
02:42year.
02:42We live in an incompletely different landscape.
02:45Yes, it's not perfect, but people are talking about this.
02:49Me Too is succeeding.
02:51And I can tell you that we live in a completely different environment to the one I did and
02:59to the one that I spoke out in, in 2017.
03:03Unrecognizable.
03:04So there's hope.
03:06There is hope.
03:07We're on the journey.
03:08We're on the journey.
03:10We're on the journey.
03:10We're on the journey.
03:11We're on the journey.
03:11We're on the journey.
03:11We're on the journey.
03:11We're on the journey.
03:12We're on the journey.
