00:02An enforceable undertaking is a legally enforceable document, so if it's not complied with, there
00:08is legal action that can be taken.
00:11Companies that self-report and are cooperative and intend to fully remediate and work with
00:18the Fair Work Ombudsman to make sure that workers get money back in their pockets as
00:23quickly as possible are open, from our point of view, to an enforceable undertaking, and
00:29that is what has happened in this situation.
00:31Okay, so the details of this, from a general perspective, is that the NAB had been underpaying
00:37their staff, but can you give us some more details around what the NAB had been doing
00:41with respect to pay, to entitlements, to overpay, et cetera?
00:46Yeah, look, I can.
00:48It comes down to not complying with elements of the National Employment Standards and also
00:55their enterprise agreement.
00:56So, they've had a succession of enterprise agreements.
00:59The most recent enterprise agreement is also not being complied with.
01:03Things like not undertaking reconciliations to see whether a worker would have earned more
01:09under the award, finding in the case of those that need to be remediated that they had been
01:15underpaid in that respect, not paying the correct allowances and penalty rates for overtime and
01:22hours of the day and the week that would attract that.
01:25Things like not accruing annual leave correctly, right through to superannuation.
01:32So, really, a plethora of non-compliance in relation to agreements that NAB themselves
01:40entered into willingly.
01:41Okay.
01:42So, how do you believe it got itself into this position?
01:44Was it systemic failures, governance, compliance oversight?
01:47All of the above, Catherine.
01:52All of the above, Catherine.
02:04It is really disappointing.
02:06So, I think it's important to put in place the systems and processes to ensure that their
02:11workers are correctly remunerated.
02:13And, you know, look, there's a culture here that NAB pleasingly are now recognising and
02:19having, we have incorporated agreements, provisions in the enforceable undertaking that will overcome
02:26this culture of entering into an enterprise agreement and then not being diligent about
02:31the operational implementation of it.
02:33They're going to set up a steering committee so that the next time they do enter into an
02:37enterprise agreement, they'll have an implementation process that is inclusive,
02:42having a greater degree of engagement with their union that will always have their eye on compliance
02:51if they're given the opportunity to have the insight.
02:54So, a provision that enhances worker voice, provision around governance.
02:59So, as much as I'm sure the NAB board has many committees, including no doubt a risk and
03:07a compliance committee, making sure that payroll is central to that.
03:12Now, it does feel sometimes with these big companies, and I'm not naming NAB in this regard
03:17particularly, but, you know, we get self-report after self-report with these large companies.
03:22And it feels to me just like a disrespect for workers, really, that, you know, you have put
03:28all the effort into all of your marketing arrangements and your customer diligence,
03:32and then when it comes to your workers, you make these mistakes.
03:35So, I am pleased that they've been recognised, that they've been remediated.
03:41But, you know, more importantly, going forward, there are systems and processes that they have
03:45promised to us that they will implement so that this doesn't happen again.
03:50And I just think there needs to be a stronger diligence and scrutiny, you know, of payroll.
03:55When it comes to remediation, has the NAB repaid all of the staff members that are out of pocket?
04:02And to what tune?
04:04Indeed.
04:04Indeed.
04:04So, well, all, not all.
04:06Some can't be found, of course.
04:07This goes back over a long period of time.
04:10I believe 90%, however, of the workers have been remediated.
04:15One worker was remediated over $80,000, and another was out of pocket only $5.
04:22That's the kind of range of underpayments you get in a situation like this.
04:27I'm sure the one who got over $80,000 was pleased to get that.
04:31In a statement from the NAB, they've said that we take our payroll obligations extremely
04:36seriously as a basic element in employing people.
04:39We sincerely apologise for these unintended errors, and we will have and will continue
04:46to remediate anyone who has been impacted.
04:48What lesson, Anna, should other companies in this position take from this?
04:52Yeah, the lesson that the Fair Work Ombudsman has been sending to Corporate Australia now
04:59for a little while, and that is to put worker payroll and compliance with all other conditions
05:06of employment, because, of course, not all conditions of employment are financial, top
05:10of your list.
05:11When you say that people are your greatest asset, back that with investment in systems
05:17and processes and human processes, so don't let record keeping, that's another thing that
05:22NAB did, it failed in certain time in attendance, record keeping, don't let that slip.
05:28Don't let that be distributed so much in the organisation to people who are either not trained
05:33or not incentivised to make it a priority.
05:37Make this part of your reporting to your board.
05:41Talk to your workforce through their union and directly, and make sure that you're always
05:48raising the issue with everybody checking their pay slips.
05:52You know, there are messages here for workers as well.
05:54Don't assume that your employer's getting it right.
05:57Check your own pay slip.
06:00Contact your union to check whether or not you're getting the right terms and conditions.
06:05Ring us on 13 13 94 and check in with us.
06:10So, I think if everybody has their antennae up, then we're much less likely to see these
06:15problems in the future.
06:16And, of course, they are really difficult problems for the company.
06:20You know, I feel it's well in a way because this is a big lick of money to pay out
06:25all at
06:26once.
06:26And it is not good reputationally.
06:29So, you know, we are grateful that they have seen the light, but we just don't want
06:34to be doing this over and over again with other companies.
06:36We want everybody to see the light.
06:41That's good news.
06:41You
