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Sonia Gandhi's memoir, Yogi-Akhilesh face-off and Trump's Iran challenge in focus
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00:00Hello and welcome, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savan.
00:04Congress leader Sonia Gandhi's memoir, Belonging, a Journey of Love,
00:09has ignited a fresh war of words between the Bharatiya Janta Party and the Congress.
00:13And the fireworks are bound to happen over Sonia Gandhi's perspective and account of events she saw unfold over decades,
00:21including emergency, terrorism in Punjab, Operation Brewster, assassination of then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi,
00:27the aftermath, the demolition of the disputed structure in Ayodhya, and of course, many others.
00:34Congress backers are hailing this book as an unprecedented glimpse into Sonia Gandhi's personal life,
00:40from her childhood to her marriage to her journey to India and developments here.
00:44They describe it as a story of love, loss, duty, resilience and belonging.
00:51The BJP, on the other hand, says the book should be called Whitewash,
00:57a sanitized version of events including imposition of emergency, the bloodshed in Punjab
01:02and the demolition of the disputed structure at Ayodhya,
01:06whitewashed by Sonia Gandhi to protect her family's image and her party.
01:12In fact, BJP leaders, including party spokesperson, CR Case 1, for example,
01:16they've declared that the memoir should actually be titled Whitewashing rather than Belonging.
01:22He argues that the purpose of the book is to sugarcoat the historical wrongs perpetrated in the BJP's view
01:30by the Nehru Gandhi family and camouflage the cardinal sins committed by the Congress Party.
01:37But look at the perspective that comes from the Congress Party
01:41or perspective that's being described as Sonia Gandhi's perspective.
01:45After Operation Blue Star, she writes,
01:48one evening, after Operation Blue Star,
01:51both she and Rajiv Gandhi were called to then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's study room
01:56where Indira Gandhi told them that her security officer,
01:59the former intelligence chief, Mr. Rao, Mr. Kao,
02:03had warned her that the children, that's Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi,
02:08could be kidnapped and had to be called back from school.
02:10She also writes about Indira Gandhi's tears and the damage caused during Operation Blue Star
02:16and her own tears when the Babri was demolished.
02:20And this has given both the BJP and the Shiromani Akali Dal fresh ammunition
02:26to launch a frontal attack on the Congress ahead of crucial poles in states like Uttar Pradesh and Punjab.
02:32The BJP and the Shiromani Akali Dal have hit out at what they describe
02:36as selective grief of Sonia Gandhi and the Congress.
02:40They asked, did Sonia Gandhi shed even a drop of tear when gurudwaras were targeted
02:45and when innocents, thousands of innocent Sikhs were targeted
02:49during the 1984 anti-Sikh riots that happened with the Congress in power?
02:55In poll-bound states, the recounting of a troubled past may reignite fresh political fires.
03:03We will debate that.
03:04But first, listen in to this intense political war of words between the Congress and the BJP.
03:13and the
03:14Next on, there has been a notable순
03:15ee of a A
03:16A
03:16A
03:16A
03:19B
03:20A
03:26A
03:31K
03:32A
03:35What
03:35A
03:37A
03:37A
03:38A
03:38encounter
03:39hota tab
03:42leken
03:44jab hinduon ka
03:46katliyaam hota
03:49naksaliyon ke
03:50dhwara adibashiyon ka
03:52to in ka
03:55ashun nahi nikalta
03:57the bottom of this book
03:58appears to be sugar plotting
04:00the historical wrongs perpetrated
04:02by the neeru gandhi family and
04:04camouflaging the cardinal sins
04:06committed by the congress party
04:08sonya gandhi says
04:10she cried for babri masjid
04:12did she but the sonya gandhi even shed
04:14one tear
04:15for when the gurudwaras were attacked and
04:18innocent people thousands of
04:20innocent people were violently killed
04:22the way in which sonya gandhi has
04:24tried to justify and
04:26normalize indira gandhi imposing the
04:28notorious emergency which murdered
04:30our constitution and suspended fundamental
04:32rights is indeed most
04:34shocking and appalling
04:35his family
04:38has also
04:40been
04:40self clean
04:43chit
04:44here
04:45to
04:45sikho
04:46que
04:46katliyaam
04:47did
04:48self clean
04:49chit
04:49did
04:49did
04:50did
04:55to do that.
05:28I don't know.
05:51So we were sitting there, we didn't know what will happen, we didn't know what will happen.
05:57There were churches in the middle, the senior leaders were there.
06:01Then we thought that Sonia Ji will not become the president, Dr. Malmohan Singh will become the doctor.
06:07We were listening to it, it felt like it was about to understand what happened.
06:13This is one of the last few weeks.
06:15But in Punjab, there is a habit that is a habit.
06:20To try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try
06:28and try and try and try and try.
06:43In the last week of October, the 27th to be precise, Sonia Gandhi said there's bound
06:51to be some tamasha when the book comes out. After all, others have spent decades telling
06:57my story. Now it's my turn. Well, on this account, she's spot on. Of course, the jury's still
07:05out on the other accounts. Congress party leaders call the book a love story, a story
07:12of resilience. The BJP calls it whitewashing facts. So is it an insider account or a carefully
07:19curated account for political gains? Let's debate. Joining me on India First is Dr. Shama
07:27Mohammed, national spokesperson for the Congress Party. Tuhin Sina is national spokesperson
07:31for the Bharatiya Janata Party. Professor Anand Ranganathan is author and consulting editor
07:36Swaraj Sanjay Jha. Formerly with the Congress, he's met and interacted closely with Ten Janpat,
07:43joins us as an analyst, gentleman and ladies, welcome. Tuhin Sina, Sonia Gandhi had a ringside
07:50view of political developments from the 1960s for over 60 years, be it wars, assassinations,
07:58including her mother-in-law and her husband, who feared he may be killed. There was an apprehension.
08:04Children may be kidnapped. Rahul and Priyanka may be kidnapped. That was the apprehension.
08:08Why is that account being seen as whitewashing history, sir?
08:14Well, good evening, Gaurav. Good evening, everybody. You know, first of all, let me
08:18extend my congratulations to Sonia Gandhiji on her autobiography, or at least, you know,
08:24it's supposedly an autobiography. But, you know, writing an autobiography requires a lot of moral
08:30courage, and you should write it only when you are prepared to bear the truth completely. Now,
08:37there are several important aspects. No doubt she has led a challenging life. No doubt, you know,
08:41there have been humongous challenges along her way. But I think, you know, the country also expects
08:46some very clear-cut answers from her on contentious issues, on mysterious issues,
08:52and I think she should equally have addressed them. For example, she, you know, she became,
08:57she came to India in 1968, but she acquired her citizenship formally in 1983. But she is supposed
09:06to have voted in 1980. There is a picture of her casting her vote. How did this happen?
09:13Number two, you know, we are all interested in knowing what was the content of the secret MOU
09:18between Congress Party and CCP. Number three, you know, Sonia Gandhiji has been so upfront about,
09:26you know, shedding tears when Babri Masjid was demolished. Salman Khurshid has gone a step
09:30forward and said further and said, you know, she tried even when Patla House encounter took place.
09:35The country also wants to know when all has she tried? Has she tried when 26-11 happened? Or does
09:42she only cry when her port bank is in danger? Has she tried when 74 CRPF jawans were brutalized by
09:49by Naxals? Or like I said, she only gets worried when her port bank is in danger?
09:54Fair enough. Sir, you've raised multiple points. Dr. Shama Mohammed, her personal account,
09:59Sonia Gandhi's personal account may be very intense, yes, but her political commentary
10:05is being described as whitewashing the role of the Congress Party, whether it's emergency
10:10or Punjab, Operation Blue Star, subsequent developments. Is the Congress Party focusing on
10:16her personal life? And does it face the risk of opening old wounds like Punjab being reignited?
10:25Your take, ma'am, on what Tuhin Sina said and my question, ma'am.
10:31So, Gaurav, this is a book, what is it called? A Journey of Love, isn't it? It's about a woman
10:38coming from somewhere else, from another country, coming to this country, accepting it, you know,
10:44accepting the country, accepting the people, being with the people. Married to the Nehru Gandhi family,
10:56did not want her husband to go get into politics, but even when he did, she stood by him.
11:03She saw her mother-in-law assassinated in front of her eyes. In fact, the bloody body of Indraji
11:12was on her lap. She took her to the hospital. I mean, just try to think what all she's been
11:18through. Then, when her husband was assassinated, she's already gone through one. Then she had her
11:25husband who was assassinated, who she was very close to. And the reason she is in this country
11:30of ours, she had to go through that. And after that, she said, I am not going to be involved.
11:37I am going to stay away. She was doing, you know, she was trying to get the Indra Gandhi's
11:43book on her and many other things she was doing. But again, she was pressured to come
11:48as the president of the Communist Party. And must say, when she came in, she could lead.
11:55She learned the language. And she was leading the country. And we won in 2004. There were people
12:03who left the party at that point. Certain leaders were upset and called her nays. But they've all
12:09come back. They were with us in the UPA, one, as well as two. So, what we understand is she's
12:16a
12:16person who believes India first. Indian people, all of India, whether they are Sikhs, whether they're
12:25Hindus, Muslims, Christians. You know, she's not a divisive person. As you know, when she was there,
12:30she's a consensus, a politician, a leader, where consensus comes first. And a lot of love.
12:38Because I have known her. And when I have met her also, she listens to you. She is somebody,
12:44as a politician, you speak more and she listens. She's very empathetic. She's very concerned about
12:51you. And how can, you know, as a woman, especially when it comes to women, as a woman, I can
12:56stand by
12:56because the ones who got the women's reservation bill in 2008, we could pass it in the Rajasabad,
13:03not in the Lokasabad. So, there were issues because of that. Otherwise, we would have done
13:06it long time back. And we didn't have a caveat. Let's understand. We didn't say that.
13:10Let me bring in Anand Ranganathan because for the moment, we're staying with the book and
13:14commentary around it. Anand Ranganathan, Sonia Gandhi had a ringside view of developments in
13:20the prime minister's residence. She's recounting what she saw. Is this allegation or this complaint
13:28that she's whitewashing events? Is that an unfair criticism of a memoir, sir?
13:34Good evening, Gaurav, and good evening to my fellow panelists. Well, you know, as they say,
13:38you either see what you believe or you believe what you see. And in Mrs. Gandhi's case, Sonia Gandhi's
13:46case, I'm afraid, the pen with which she has written her memoirs is dipped not in ink but in
13:52harpic. She has ruthlessly tried to wash and scrub, not just whitewash, the history right before our
13:59very eyes. Each and every instance that, I mean, you know, that you describe that is in her
14:06fictionalized book is a complete negation of history. She is trying to whitewash the crimes and
14:14misdemeanors of her close associates. I mean, for example, apportioning, shamelessly apportioning
14:20blame of the emergency from Indira Gandhi to Sanjay Gandhi. And I am surprised that
14:26Nenaka Gandhi has not yet spoken out. This is an absolute crime. When she says that emergency was
14:33thrust principally by, on the behalf of Sanjay Gandhi, it is a calamity. Hundreds and thousands
14:39were in turn, millions were sterilized. Thousands were killed. All this happened right under the
14:44command and directions of Indira Gandhi. For somebody to say that Sanjay Gandhi is responsible
14:50for this, it is in front of our eyes brushing the history in front of us. Secondly, does this memoir
14:57mention about what Rajiv Gandhi said about the Sikhs?
15:00The genocide of the Sikhs in 1984 in the wake of the assassination is right on the shoulders of
15:11Rajiv Gandhi. Has that been mentioned by Sonia Gandhi? Have both of them ever apologized for what
15:16happened for the emergency and for the 1984 Sikhs genocide? So, you know, yes, she is within her
15:22right to write whatever she wants to. But this is a deeply sanitized, scrubbed out version of history
15:28before us, Gaurav. Let's be honest about it. Let me get Sanjay Jha to respond. Sanjay Jha, this is not,
15:35you know, history that's written with pen and ink. It's actually scrubbed with pen and harpic, says
15:41Professor Ranganathan, or what's to that effect? Let's take this one by one. Emergency, for example,
15:46that's described as the darkest chapter in post-independence India. BJP says Sonia Gandhi is
15:51whitewashing Indira Gandhi's role and blaming Sanjay Gandhi for emergency, or what's to that effect?
15:57How fair is that criticism, sir?
16:00Gaurav, good evening to you. Now, first and foremost, this is a memoir of a person who was
16:06there and saw it from her perspective, through her experience of seeing what was going on
16:12at the highest level of political decision making. For Anand Ranganathan of the BJP to challenge that
16:18is rather ridiculous. It's like me saying that right now I'm sitting here in Pune and I can see
16:23a lizard on the wall, and Anand Ranganathan said that's not a lizard, that's a dinosaur.
16:28It's a ridiculous argument. Let's not go down that road. This is an individual's personal memoir.
16:34Now, you can challenge it by another memoir, and you can come out with a fact,
16:38but these rhetoric and these, you know, cheap gibberish comments have no meaning.
16:42I'm going to bite the bullet on your program. I have my friend Shama here, who's anyway doing some
16:47brilliant heavy lifting already. But let me just come to the point ASAP, okay? And I'm going to
16:52bite the bullet, Gaurav, on how you started, the Barbary mustard demolition, because I have been
16:58part of several debates when I have been officially part of the Congress as a spokesperson. Let me
17:03remind you, who's whitewashing? Let me tell Anand Ranganathan, and I'm not going to quote a politician.
17:08I'm going to quote an esteemed Supreme Court lawyer, Manmohan Singh, Labor and Commission's report.
17:14No whitewashing. And this is a fact that the viewer should know. You know, his commission
17:20concluded that the Barbary mustard demolition was not a spontaneous mob violence as the BJP would
17:27like India to believe, but it was a methodical and meticulously planned civil conspiracy to bring
17:34down the entire mosque. Now, more important, more important, the Liberian Commission indicted
17:41the Sangh Parivar, VHP, RSS, BJP, Bajrangtal, everybody for taking part in the entire methodical
17:49demolition. Most importantly, it actually held leaders of the BJP, Mr. L.K. Advani, with due
17:56respects to his age, Modli Manohat Joshir, due respects to his age, Uma Bharti, in fact, accepted
18:01her responsibility as people responsible for what really went on. And guess what it called the BJP and
18:08the Sangh Parivar? Pseudo-moderates who carried intellectual responsibility for the event.
18:14Where will Anand and Tuhin Sina go into hiding now?
18:18I'll get both of them to respond, but since you specifically mentioned Anand Ranganathan's
18:22name, I'm getting Anand Ranganathan to respond to you and then Tuhin Sina on the political
18:25point of L.K. Advani and others. Before I bring in Shammah Muhammad, go ahead, Professor
18:29Ranganathan.
18:31First of all, with due respect to my good friend Sanjay, it's a specious argument. Of
18:35course, I myself said it's a memoir. It's her point of view and it's a deeply sanitized
18:39point of view. But I have seen and read history of that time. The fact of the matter is, as
18:45I said, she's open to interpret or say what happened right before us. Of course she is.
18:50But I'm disputing the facts that she is putting out that Indra Gandhi was responsible for the
18:56emergency, not Sanjay Gandhi. Sanjay Gandhi took part in the atrocities that followed the
19:01declaration of emergency, but the proclamation of it, because I've written on it and I've
19:06read books on it. The fact of the matter is, Indra Gandhi is to be blamed for emergency.
19:11Let's not take away that blame from it. As far as the Babri Majid demolition is concerned
19:16for her to, you know, whatever she says, she's free to her opinion. I can't dispute
19:20that, obviously. Now, if she cried on that, if she cried on Batra encounter where a terrorist
19:24was killed, that's her opinion. I'm not disputing that. But I myself have condemned the demolition
19:30of Babri Majid. And I'll say this, for 15 of the 30, 35 years that have gone past the
19:35demolition, Congress was in power. CBI was controlled by them. Why was Advani not put under
19:41arrest? Why was Murri Manor Jaspur under arrest? Why did Mulaim Singh say there was no evidence
19:46against Advani? So, let's not, what do they say, run with the hair and hunt with the hounds.
19:52You are equally responsible if now you say Advani was not behind bars. For 16 years, you had the
19:58chance to put him behind bars. You didn't, for obvious reasons. Fair enough. And I will get Dr.
20:03Shamaa Mohamad also to respond to this aspect. You know, is the Congress trying to run with the hair
20:09and hunt with hounds? And what impact will it have on elections, if at all? But Tuin Sina, respond,
20:15Babri, Babri is where if Sonia Gandhi had tears in her eyes at the demolition, that, you know,
20:23it's going to be an uphill battle or words to that effect to protect the secularism or the India that
20:28Mahatma Gandhi and Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru thought of trying to build. The blame is on BJP RSS.
20:35No, no, I understand Sonia Gandhi ji is a very emotional person, you know, so she keeps, she gets
20:41to, she cries often. But my point is only, you know, she never mentions about crying at the, when,
20:46when, you know, 74 of her CRP of Jawans get killed or when 2611 happens. Now, I would have at
20:52least
20:52expected the two Congress representatives to be given the book one week or 10 days before so that
20:58they don't come up with these cliched arguments and, you know, BJP bashing, which they are very good at.
21:03But my point is very simple. Does the country not have the right to know why it took Sonia Gandhi
21:10ji
21:1010 days after the nuclear test in May 1998 to come up with the first reaction? And even that first
21:19reaction was a cavalier. India's strength lies in restraint without understanding the situation.
21:25Does India not have the right to know from Sonia Gandhi why India did not go after Pakistan,
21:30despite a string of bomb blasts, series of bomb blasts right between 2004 and 2009 every 40 days?
21:38I'm expecting answers to these serious questions.
21:41Fair enough. Dr. Mohammed, Indra Gandhi had tears in her eyes after Operation Blue Star.
21:47Sonia Gandhi writes about being in tears when Babri Masjid and what the BJP describes as the
21:52disputed structure was demolished. And then this conversation that you're hearing,
21:57Tuhinsena, talk about, you know, tears in her eyes when Batla House encounter happened and terrorists were killed.
22:02Now the BJP is accusing Sonia Gandhi and the Congress leadership of selective grief, ma'am.
22:08How would you respond to this criticism?
22:12I think you'll have to unmute yourself, ma'am.
22:17You have to understand at least there are tears.
22:20Mrs. Gandhi has had tears in her eyes many times.
22:23She has tears.
22:24But there is a man called Narendra Modi who never has it.
22:27I mean, they talk about Pakistan.
22:29How did we not go against Pakistan?
22:32When Patan Court happened, you had the audacity to invite the ISI to investigate it.
22:38We never did something as stupid as that.
22:40So let's understand.
22:42Manmohan Singh, for 10 years, Sonia Ji, none of them visited Pakistan.
22:47The Prime Minister of India, Mr. Narendra Modi, visited Pakistan to have biryani.
22:52I can go on about his relationship with Pakistan.
22:55When he became the Prime Minister the first time, he's invited the Pakistani Prime Minister.
23:01So let's understand.
23:03And during the BJP's time, I mean, during Bajpayee's time, there was the Lahore bus fight.
23:11So who is with Pakistan?
23:14It's the Bhatia Janta Party.
23:16Then he talks about the genocide of 1984.
23:22I have to reply to all this.
23:23Now, I know Mrs. Gandhi has expressed regret about it.
23:28She has done it publicly.
23:29Mr. Manmohan Singh had apologised inside the parliament.
23:33Now, for 2002, did I get and did anybody in India get an apology?
23:38Mr. Modi said it was like a puppy going under the tire of a car.
23:42All right.
23:43Then they talk about various ones.
23:45I have to finish now because I need to reply to Ranganathan as well as Tuhin.
23:50Then they talk about, they keep going back to 1984.
23:54Now, Sanjeev Bhat put an effort of it in the Supreme Court, filed a petition saying that on the 27th
24:01February night, 2002, there was a meeting in the Prime Minister's home.
24:05And he was the only one.
24:07The rest all stood with Modi saying, well, Mr. Modi said, you know what?
24:10Get on.
24:11Let the Hindus attack them.
24:15So, so, so.
24:16So, is this what?
24:17Right versus right versus right?
24:19No, I'm trying to.
24:20Because the discussion is on Sonia Gandhi's book.
24:23The BJP's question is on Sonia Gandhi's selective tears.
24:26You steer it to the Prime Minister.
24:31Sonia Gandhi's selective tears is the BJP's allegation.
24:34Anand Ranganathan also wants to comment, but go ahead.
24:37No, no, let me finish.
24:38They can have whatever arguments.
24:40Sonia Gandhi doesn't have selective tears.
24:42She feels for each and everybody in India.
24:45And that's why, that's why during our time, we have had innumerable number of things helping out, whether it's the
24:54poor, whether it is the, whether it is the industry or whatever, you know.
24:59Fair enough.
24:59Our GDP, those, one second, let me finish.
25:02Food Security Act got in by the UPA government.
25:05Okay.
25:06We had a, the, the, the higher GDP around eight, you know, an annual.
25:11I'll come to that.
25:12Okay.
25:12But I'm specific on points, Dr. Muhammad.
25:14Tuhin Sina, how is this grief selective?
25:18Let's understand.
25:18You know, these are events that stunned the nation.
25:21You know, the, the, the Congress Party says, Lalkrishna Advani called the demolition of, of the disputed structure as the
25:28saddest day of his life.
25:29Or words to that effect, unfortunate, painful.
25:32Atal Bihari Vajpayee apparently said what happened in Ayodhya on the 6th of December was unfortunate.
25:37So why blame Sonia Gandhi or why is the BJP targeting Sonia Gandhi's tears, sir?
25:42Well, like, like you yourself mentioned, it's about the selectivity.
25:46You know, these are the same people.
25:48She was talking about food security bill.
25:51Do you remember in 2011, they tried to push the most insidious, the most sinister bill, the communal violence prevention
25:58bill, which by default would put all the owners of any communal violence upon Hindus?
26:03Because we thwarted it.
26:06So, you know, the selectivity, the obnoxious selectivity of the Congress Party is a well-known fact.
26:11And the book very brazenly carries that selectivity forward.
26:15Second part, you know, the entire grouse about democracy being in danger, I would have expected, you know, I'm waiting
26:21to read the book, but I would have still expected it to be a little more, you know, to have
26:26a little more gravitas than Rahul Gandhi's, you know, rants day in and day out that democracy is in danger
26:32without having the slightest evidence to prove that.
26:34I want to get Dr. Ranganathan to respond on this selectivity, but Sanjay Jha, Sonia Gandhi's grief is being described
26:40as selective by the BJP, says, why is it that she said no tears for carsevaks who were gunned down
26:46in Ayodhya or Sikhs who were massacred in the national capital and elsewhere after Indira Gandhi's assassination?
26:52As Professor Ranganathan said, does the book also have that famous quote of Rajiv Gandhi, when a giant tree falls,
26:59the earth shakes to describe the massacre on Sikhs in Delhi?
27:04After Indira Gandhi's assassination? Oh, what's that effect, sir? Respond, please.
27:08You know, Gaurav, I think we are going to do a grave injustice to Sonia Gandhi. If we don't discuss
27:14her, I would say her humanity.
27:17I'm not going to be derailed by Tuhin Sena and Anand Ranganathan's cheap shots at her. That's fine. They are
27:24part of the right-wing ecosystem. They will do that.
27:27No, but how are they cheap shots? They have a perspective?
27:29No.
27:29Okay, you think they're cheap shots? Fair enough.
27:31It's terrible. It's terrible. I can tell you something.
27:34It's almost repugnant and disgusting. It shows a very low level of emotional...
27:39How can a national security question be a shot?
27:41Can I speak? Can I speak?
27:43No, no, I object to it. A national security question cannot be a cheap shot.
27:49Can I speak?
27:49Why didn't you go to the test?
27:51One by one.
27:51One by one.
27:52One by one.
27:52If you're going to interrupt, then I can ask for Patan.
27:54One by one. Absolutely.
27:56Why did you invite ISI?
27:56No interruptions.
27:57Why did you invite ISI?
27:59Okay.
27:59Answer that.
28:00Okay.
28:00No interruptions.
28:01Can you answer that to him, Sena?
28:02Can you ask why you invite ISI?
28:05They have a test in Patan court?
28:08Okay.
28:08Shame.
28:09Dr. Mohamad, let Sanjay Jah complete.
28:12I'll bring in Anand Ranganathan and I'll come back to you, ma'am.
28:14Sanjay Jah, please complete your point, sir.
28:16You are talking about somebody who saw the assassination of a prime minister and went with the entire nightmarish experience.
28:26I don't think anybody here even recognizes what she's lived with.
28:30You know, for example, just think about it, Gaurav.
28:32Your grandmother or Tuhin's grandmother, anyone assassinated or your mother-in-law murdered in front of your eyes.
28:39And you live with that experience about the hospital and the death.
28:43Your own spouse is brutally slaughtered in the middle of the night.
28:47You live with these experiences for life.
28:50I mean, it's nice to come here and, you know, make potshots at people.
28:54But I want to make this comment here.
28:56And she, by the way, forgave the killers of her own husband.
29:01You saw that.
29:02I mean, it takes a different kind of emotion and a mental, and I would call it a human makeup
29:07to do that.
29:08You compared this, you compared this.
29:10Now, this is a political debate, so I'll say this.
29:13Here is a person who did not become a prime minister when she could have.
29:17Okay.
29:17All right?
29:18And one minute, and one minute, and she's written a book and put it all out there.
29:22Compare that to a man who is a prime minister, but he's so scared to do a press conference in
29:2812 years.
29:28Do we need any further debate?
29:30And, Professor Ranganathan, do we need further debate?
29:33Is there merit in criticism of selective grief and, of course, silence when Hindus and Sikhs were massacred,
29:39either in Ayodhya or in the national capital, or as Sanjay Jha puts it, look at her personal grief.
29:46The fact that she chose to open up and give her side of the story for the first time ever.
29:51You know, tamasha to ho ga hi.
29:55Look, Muhammad said that Ranganathan is being selective.
29:58I'm sorry, how am I being selective?
30:00I'm just quoting facts out here.
30:01It is my facts versus what Muhammad is saying, what Sonia Gandhi was doing.
30:07For example, if, as what Muhammad says, that Sonia Gandhi is not selective whenever she spews tears,
30:15did she spew tears at the demolition of Babari Masjid, at Batla?
30:19Did she spew tears when 59 car savers were mercilessly burned alive in Gujarat?
30:23Maybe she did.
30:24I haven't read the book.
30:25Did she spew tears when Jews were mercilessly butchered by, presumably, her father, who was in Mussolini's army?
30:32Maybe she did.
30:33I haven't read the book.
30:34So, yes, maybe I am being wrong when I am being selective but I haven't read the book.
30:37Maybe she cried when Jews were murdered, when her father marched with Mussolini's army men against Jews as a fascist.
30:45Maybe she did.
30:46I don't know.
30:48Dr. Muhammad wanted to comment, you know, emergency, Operation Blue Star, anti-sikh massacre, Babri, Batla.
30:57Ma'am, do you think these are very sensitive issues, especially in pole-bound states like Uttar Pradesh and Punjab?
31:03Could it, in either states, impact, have a negative impact or has that already been factored in, Dr. Muhammad?
31:10No, you have to understand that.
31:13Even when it came to the Babri-Masjid issue, the Supreme Court had said that it was illegal and a
31:19calculated act of destroying a public place of Russia.
31:22Let's not forget that.
31:23When 2002 happened, sitting next to, Vajpayee sitting next to Modi said, Raj dharma bula mat.
31:30He was reminding him of his Raj dharma.
31:32His own, his own prime minister is reminding him.
31:36So, let's, no, and Tuhin keeps talking, one second, I want to finish this.
31:40Tuhin keeps talking about national security, national security.
31:44Now, you have to understand, ISI is the most dangerous organization in the world.
31:48You know, the ISI and the Pakistani army, according to me, is the most dangerous organization in the world.
31:54Now, if you're going to invite the ISI to our country to investigate an attack, which they did in Pathankot,
32:01what is a bigger security risk to India than that?
32:04I don't think there's anything, but he will never reply to that.
32:07He has no answer to that.
32:09And what I want to tell about, let me finish my point.
32:11What I want to say is that here is a lady who has written a memoir and who has given
32:17out as much as truth possible in it.
32:19According to me, it's all what has happened.
32:22She has seen it, including the Sanjay Gandhi part, where we all knew Mrs. Indira Gandhi always, many of them,
32:29you know, have told that she always listened to Sanjay.
32:32Sanjay had a kind of control over Mrs. Gandhi, Indira Gandhi.
32:36So, she was there.
32:38She knew exactly what was happening and she's telling you the truth.
32:41So, she had a ringside view.
32:42She's telling you the truth, Professor Ranganathan.
32:45You know, you believe in another account and not a first-person account is what Dr. Shama Muhammad says.
32:52Look, with due respect to Shama, half knowledge is a very dangerous thing.
32:56It leads to half quotes.
32:57When Vajpayee said,
32:59I didn't interrupt you.
33:02Okay, Shama, I didn't interrupt you.
33:04You keep calling me Ranganathan instead of Anand.
33:06So, I'll keep calling you Muhammad instead of Shama.
33:08So, Muhammad, I didn't interrupt you.
33:10Now, Gaurav, please let me say.
33:12Why is he calling you Muhammad?
33:13What is the reason you call me Muhammad?
33:16You keep calling me Ranganathan.
33:17Three times you've called me Ranganathan instead of...
33:19Okay, Dr. Anand.
33:21Sorry, then, Dr. Anand.
33:22Dr. Anand.
33:23No, not Dr. Anand.
33:24Anand is fine, Shama.
33:26We are friends.
33:26So, let's call each other.
33:28Let me listen.
33:30So, to my good friend Shama,
33:32I would like to say that half knowledge is a very dangerous thing, like half quotes.
33:36When Vajpayee Ji said,
33:38Rajdharm ka palan ho na chahiye,
33:40you just end the quote there.
33:41Please tell also what he said after that.
33:44Aur mujhe yakeen hai, Rajdharm ka hi palan kar rahe hai, Modi ji.
33:47That was the complete quote of Atal Bihari Vajpayee.
33:50Now, let me come to the facts.
33:53Let's deal with Sonia Gandhi and India under her.
33:57By under her, I mean from 2004 to 2014.
34:01Let's talk about two instances of foreign policy.
34:03Her own foreign secretary, Shyam Saran, said on record that India has given away,
34:08and you broke the news, Gaurav, you and Sheev,
34:11that India has given away 600 square kilometers of eastern Ladakh to China.
34:16Our own Indian Air Force chief went to the then Prime Minister,
34:22the late Dr. Manmohan Singh, saying we want to bomb Pakistani terror ride-outs
34:25in the wake of 26-11, and he was refused permission to do though.
34:28So, Shama, these are facts.
34:30On these two instances, we retreated in the face of Pakistani bluster,
34:35and that was shameful.
34:36I'm not even talking about the Sharm al-Sheikh agreement,
34:39where we bowed before Pakistan, included Balochistan,
34:43thereby insinuating that we were fomenting trouble in Balochistan.
34:47Okay.
34:48So, the last 30 seconds…
34:50Gaurav, can I reply to that?
34:51Okay, yeah, quickly.
34:52Quickly, because I have to bring in Sanjay Jha and to him for their closing comments.
34:55I just want to reply to Gaurav, I just want to reply to Anand,
34:58that what about Jha Shankar saying that we cannot take on China,
35:03they're too big for us.
35:04That is also the truth.
35:05Isn't it a fact?
35:06Isn't it a fact?
35:08Isn't it a fact?
35:09So, please, please, don't tell us how Jha Shankar has,
35:13and this government has taken on China.
35:15I mean, on one side, they're belittling us,
35:17they're supporting Pakistan inside out, in Operation Sindhu,
35:21they're giving weapons, and we are sitting in a corner scared of China.
35:24I mean, we're inviting them and doing this side thing.
35:27You know, what is happening?
35:28What happened after Galwan?
35:30Why hasn't our trade, you know…
35:32No, no, trade surplus has gone up with China.
35:35Why isn't that happening?
35:36Fair enough, but Dr. Mohamed, it's also a fact after Galwan,
35:40you have 50,000 troops amassed on either side,
35:43including the current standoff that's happening in Arunachal Pradesh.
35:47Standoff and no ceding of territory.
35:50Did we go to status quo, Ante, have we gone back to status quo, Ante, Gaurav?
35:54We haven't.
35:55And that is exactly why there's a standoff.
35:58But Sanjay Jha, and I want to come back to the book today,
36:02Sanjay Jha, story of love, loyalty, resilience,
36:06or as some analysts say, it's a survival kit.
36:10It has pitfalls in UP and Punjab in 2027,
36:14but then it's a survival kit for 2029 elections, sir.
36:18How would you respond to that?
36:20Gaurav, let me tell you, when you have lived a life for 79 years
36:24and you have fought over 200 elections,
36:27you don't write a book keeping in mind three elections coming up in the next three months.
36:32Your life is much bigger.
36:33You see, her story, her extraordinary career,
36:36her political career and her personal life is far beyond one or two elections.
36:41And I really want to make that point that in a country, in politics,
36:45where everyone wants to become a prime minister and a minister,
36:49Mrs. Gandhi is an outlier.
36:51She's extraordinary because she gave up an opportunity
36:53that anybody else would go miles to just say yes to.
36:57And here is the point.
36:58The last, you know, here is my last point.
37:00But Tuhin Sina wants to respond.
37:01Sir, I've run out of time on this part of the show.
37:03Mr. Modi is the most disastrous prime minister in our history.
37:07You see this as a carefully curated account.
37:09The Congress sees this as an insider account,
37:13reaching out actually to Gen Z and her younger voters,
37:16giving Sonia Gandhi's perspective before the 2029 elections.
37:21See, Gaurav, I'll tell you a very simple test to, you know,
37:24to make out whether she's actually written the book
37:27or whether it is a, you know, cosmetic exercise at marketing.
37:31Let her give 10 one-on-one interviews, including one to India Today.
37:35They, you know, they wax and opiate about the fact
37:37that Modi ji has not given,
37:38has taken any press conference,
37:41please don't barge in now,
37:42have the basic manners,
37:43this refugee is not regulated.
37:46Gaurav, I have to complete.
37:47They keep shouting Modi ji has not,
37:50you know, given any press conference.
37:52Fact is Modi ji has had more than 300.
37:54Anand, just 30 seconds.
37:56Just 30 seconds.
37:56Anand, only Anand, 30 seconds.
37:59That is all that I have.
38:00Anand.
38:01The only chance Rahul Gandhi had that was on the eve of 2014
38:05to somebody called Mr. Goswami.
38:06What happened?
38:07The entire country has seen how Rahul Gandhi was scared after that.
38:12Anand, quickly, sir.
38:1430 seconds.
38:14Yes.
38:15The truth is, let's not,
38:16why it was a special emergency,
38:18the Congress has traditionally never listened to Sanjay.
38:21It didn't listen to Sanjay Gandhi.
38:23It doesn't listen to Sanjay Jha.
38:25Fair enough.
38:27You know, Sonia Gandhi promised Tamasha when her book comes out
38:31and that is something that I'm sure we'll witness a lot more.
38:34Dr. Shama Mohammed, Dr. Ranganathan, Sanjay Jha and Tuhin Sina,
38:38as always, brilliant having you on this broadcast.
38:41A Samajwadi party, member of parliament's defence of the 1990 firing on Kar Sevaks
38:47has triggered a political storm in pole-bound Uttar Pradesh.
38:51Sanatan Pandey defended the firing when Mulaim Singh Yadav was chief minister of Uttar Pradesh
38:57on Kar Sevaks at Ayodhya,
38:59arguing it was necessary to protect the constitution and prevent a civil war.
39:04He has since backtracked on this remark
39:08after the BJP launched a swift counter-attack
39:11demanding not just an apology
39:13but also accusing the Samajwadi party
39:15of having the blood of Kar Sevaks on its hands.
39:20Uttar Pradesh chief minister Yogi Adityanath
39:22turned up the heat on the Samajwadi party
39:24demanding Akhilesh Yadav apologize
39:27for this violence,
39:31the killing of Kar Sevaks
39:32before his proposed December 12 visit to Ayodhya.
39:36Samart Srivastava gets us this report.
39:44The 1990 Ayodhya firing is back in the political crossfire.
39:5336 years later, the Kar Sevak controversy is threatening to become a major flashpoint
39:59in pole-bound Uttar Pradesh.
40:02This time, the storm was triggered by Samajwadi party MP
40:06Sanatan Pandey who defended the firing
40:09during Mulaim Singh Yadav's tenure.
40:41BJP hit back, accusing the Samajwadi party of having Kar Sevaks' blood on its hand.
41:06And now, the reaction is coming from the families of those who lost their lives.
41:11A daughter says, the SP leader's comment is an insult to her father's sacrifice
41:16while Kar Sevaks condemned Pandey's remarks.
41:39Anand Kar Sevak
41:52The Samajwadi Party MP has now tried to justify his statement.
42:01Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath has turned up the heat,
42:05demanding Akhilesh Yadav's apology before his visit to Ram Nagri.
42:29From the 1990 firing to the Ram Mandir,
42:32Ayodhya's past is fueling a fresh political showdown.
42:37With Akhilesh's visit looming and the BJP demanding an apology,
42:41is the temple town set to become UP's biggest pole battleground?
42:46With Samarth Srivastav, Bureau Report, India Today.
42:54U.S. President Donald Trump has declared that Iran has militarily been defeated
43:00and the war is over or worse to that effect.
43:04The U.S. President said Iran has effectively been decapitated and its military is finished.
43:11Donald Trump insists Washington, D.C. is merely maintaining status quo
43:16and now is ensuring that Iran's nuclear program is permanently defanned.
43:23But Tehran very clearly is not backing down.
43:25Iran's foreign ministry spokesperson, Ismail Bagay has once again pitched Iran's two-day proposal
43:33as proof of goodwill for talks.
43:37His message to Washington, D.C.?
43:39Fulfill Iran's demands within two days
43:42and the region will witness or may witness positive developments.
43:47So Trump is declaring military victory.
43:50Iran is pushing its own conditions for peace.
43:53The question is whether the two sides can move from military confrontation
43:57to a diplomatic breakthrough.
44:00But then there's another battle that's being waged in Washington, D.C.
44:04U.S. Secretary of War Pete Hexet is facing an impeachment bid
44:08with eight articles of impeachment tabled in the Congress.
44:12And Congressman Thomas Massey is leading this move
44:15accusing Pete Hexet of abusing his power as Secretary of War
44:19and waging an illegal war.
44:22The allegations have triggered a political showdown
44:25but Donald Trump is standing firmly with his defense secretary.
44:31Their navy is gone, their air force is gone,
44:34they have 158 ships, they're underwater,
44:36they have 268 planes that were scattered all over the runways of Iran.
44:42So their military is essentially gone,
44:44their manufacturing capability is reduced to a better,
44:48they can still make some limited numbers of missiles and drones,
44:52but it's basically about 85 percent gone.
44:56And they're talking to us and they're talking very politely,
44:59then we'll see what happens,
45:01but there's a good chance that that could get ended.
45:05So at the conclusion of the military engagement,
45:09the American people and the people of the world will be far safer.
45:14Stand by him.
45:15So even when you teach you're going to...
45:16Mr. President, stand by him, yep.
45:18He won two wars, he was in charge, we all won.
45:21I had great people.
45:23I will say this, the soldiers, the actual soldiers,
45:26the great people that do the work, the great patriots,
45:29they love Pete Hexeth.
45:32So if you go back two years ago, before I got into office,
45:37two years ago, we could not recruit people.
45:40And you know that better.
45:42The army was way behind everybody.
45:44Now we have waiting lists of people trying to get in.
45:48He's done a very good job.
45:50In the 250 years of our American republic,
45:53no secretary of war or secretary of defense
45:57has ever been impeached for carrying out lawful military operations.
46:03And in our case, successful ones at that.
46:08Not once.
46:09War powers resolution or not.
46:11Not under Reagan in Lebanon.
46:13Not under Clinton in Kosovo.
46:15Not under Obama in Iraq and Syria.
46:17Not under Biden in Iraq and Syria.
46:21That's the standard.
46:22The history is clear and it's very straightforward.
46:26So is U.S. President Donald Trump's declaration of victory militarily
46:31beginning of the end of the Iran conflict?
46:33Or is Washington, D.C. now heading into another war?
46:37A political war.
46:39Joining me on this special broadcast is my colleague Sandeep Unnithan,
46:43who's been tracking developments very closely.
46:45Sandeep, U.S. President has declared military victory even earlier.
46:48He's done so once again.
46:50Now, are we looking at this as, you know, giving a safe exit to Iran or to his forces?
46:58Or do we see, God forbid, another escalation of conflict?
47:03Well, Gaurav, you know, President Trump has indicated in the past as well that there was, you know, he was
47:08not looking at a military option.
47:10But, you know, this time conditions are very different.
47:12The war is deeply unpopular in the United States.
47:16And that was seen in the election results.
47:19It was a blue tsunami that wiped out the Republicans.
47:22And, you know, Trump's position is not what it was a few months back.
47:26And, you know, given the fact that his own colleagues, J.D. Vance, is against it, several of the Republicans
47:31want the war to end.
47:33So, this statement from Trump should be taken with, you know, some seriousness.
47:37The fact that he is trying to give peace a chance after nearly eight months of war and talks and
47:43war and talks.
47:44But, you know, the other thing, of course, Gaurav, is that there are, you know, at the moment, there are
47:49two aircraft carrier strike groups in West Asia.
47:52There's a third one.
47:53The U.S. Theodore Roosevelt is in Singapore right now.
47:56It's heading into the Indian Ocean region.
47:58So, the U.S. President still has his options open as far as strikes go.
48:03You have the George W. Bush carrier strike group, the George Washington carrier strike group.
48:07And in midst of all this, Sandeep, Iran has given this two-day proposal.
48:11Does that open a window of peace?
48:14Or is Tehran simply calling out Washington, D.C.'s bluff?
48:19Well, Gaurav, if you see Mohsen Reza's statements, he says what Trump is saying is fake news.
48:25And he has, in fact, given seven proposals to the United States.
48:29You know, these are conditions, in fact.
48:32And, you know, that would mean a U.S., some kind of a defeat if the U.S. concedes to
48:38some of those.
48:39It is almost unprecedented in the kind of...
48:42And he's reiterated what Iran has said in the past, that you need to pay us reparations, you know, you
48:47need to unfreeze our assets.
48:49And these are statements that would seem to come from a side that believes it has time, it has, you
48:56know, the moral high ground, the political high ground.
49:00So, Iran is very clear in, you know, stretching this to the next year, in 2027.
49:06They believe Trump does not have the capability to execute his threats.
49:11In fact, now is trouble actually mounting for Team Trump the manner in which Secretary of War Pete Hexert's impeachment
49:19bid is being pursued.
49:21Now, is that an attempt to break Trump's morale and the wartime leadership?
49:27Absolutely, Gaurav. You know, and the figures like Marco Rubio, J.D. Vance, who have presidential ambitions, are very clear
49:36they want to distance themselves from this deeply unpopular war that has turned Americans against the Republican Party, they believe.
49:43It's quite possible Secretary of War Pete Hexert, who was all for the war from the day one, is possibly
49:50going to be the fall guy for this.
49:53It's been speculated that he may not have a very long innings in the Trump administration, given how gung-mo
50:01he was about this conflict, which has not got the U.S. any of its military objectives that they started
50:07out on the 20th of February.
50:08Sandeep, keep tracking that story. I will come back to you for more senior journalist Sandeep Unnithan for the moment.
50:13Many thanks for joining me.
50:15NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang is facing a major controversy amid allegations of a possible Chinese intelligence honey trap.
50:23China has dismissed the allegations of espionage as completely baseless.
50:29NVIDIA's board has ordered an independent investigation.
50:33But what lies behind this controversy and how is it impacting NVIDIA in the short term and could it have
50:42long-term impact?
50:44We get you more in this report.
50:54He is the rock star of Silicon Valley, the man in the black leather jacket who turned a graphics chip
51:01company into the engine of a global artificial intelligence boom.
51:06But now, an alleged Chinese honey trap scandal has put one of the world's most powerful technology bosses under investigation
51:14and raised a question that Wall Street has long avoided.
51:23What happens to NVIDIA if Jensen Huang is no longer in the corner office?
51:28The crisis erupted after reports linked Huang to a businesswoman, Alice Huang, who has been accused of passing information to
51:36China.
51:38The NVIDIA chief has admitted to being unfaithful to his wife but has not acknowledged any espionage or wrongdoing involving
51:47company secrets.
51:49NVIDIA's board has also ordered an independent investigation.
51:52The question now is whether a company build-around one extraordinary leader can function just as effectively without him.
52:01A potential departure could force a management restructuring, delay strategic decisions and unsettle customers who have come to rely on
52:10Huang's personal assurances.
52:13The scandal has also reached White House, where Huang has become an important voice in the debate over America's technological
52:21competition with China.
52:23U.S. President Donald Trump, who spoke to Huang after the revelations, said he was surprised by the reports but
52:29remained confident in the NVIDIA chief.
52:32He's an amazing guy. I just hope it's, I hope there's no problem. If there is a problem, we'll let
52:38you know about it, but I hope there's no problem.
52:40I believe he's suffering greatly. I read his statement and I believe he's suffering greatly, more so because of his
52:48family, his wife, who he loves, and his family. But he is definitely suffering.
52:55Beijing, however, has rejected the espionage allegations entirely.
52:59We have previously responded to this matter. The so-called claims of Chinese spy narrative are purely a groundless accusation,
53:07slander and a smear.
53:08The controversy now comes at a sensitive moment in U.S.-China relations, with advanced AI chips already at the center
53:16of a bitter technology and trade dispute.
53:19But Trump says he does not expect to raise Huang's case with President Xi Jinping during their upcoming talks.
53:26Do you bring up the case of Jensen Wang with President Xi when you visit with him next week?
53:30No, I don't think so. I mean, maybe, I'm sure President Xi will ask me about it.
53:36I just know Jensen very well. I just think he's a very honorable man.
53:40I mean, he built a great company, American company, and I think he's a very honorable guy.
53:46And I feel very confident that he'll be in good shape.
53:48For now, NVIDIA's board has expressed confidence in Huang's, and there is no finding that he compromised company secrets.
53:57But three big questions will determine what happens next.
54:01Bureau Report, Business Today Television.
54:06We will continue to track developments on the story closely, but that is all I have for you on India
54:11First this evening.
54:12Many thanks for watching. News and updates continue on India Today. Stay with us.