00:00I want to switch gears and talk about some of those issues where, you know, even a lot of folks
00:06in Trump's base have started to turn on him.
00:08And, you know, with your background as a prosecutor, I wanted to focus on the Epstein files because this has
00:14been just fascinating for me to watch as Trump is basically, I mean, I think the MAGA base, to a
00:21large degree, I didn't think it was possible.
00:23But I think they are starting to lose trust and faith in him on this issue.
00:28I mean, how do you see what's happening right now in Congress?
00:33Is this a function of how Trump has staffed up DOJ and how it has been undermined under his leadership?
00:41Would we have more answers if it was someone else that was being more transparent?
00:45Like, will the American people ever get answers on these Epstein files?
00:50Maybe.
00:50Maybe.
00:51But, look, I think I'd argue let's differentiate between answers and prosecutions.
00:58So I'll do answers first, then I'll do prosecutions.
01:01On answers, you know.
01:04You know.
01:06It was a bunch of rich, predominantly white guys who are masters of the universe, have made more money.
01:16Think about what all of these men who have been exposed so far have in common.
01:22They're professionally successful, they're extraordinarily wealthy, and most of them are incredibly geeky, right?
01:33Like, these guys could not close the deal ever in their lives, right?
01:39Could not close the deal.
01:42So now they become really rich, and they're thinking, I'm really rich now.
01:49I got to find out how to close the deal.
01:53And they look at Jeffrey Epstein and they go, you know how to close the deal.
01:57I'm going to hang with him.
01:59What more do you need to know?
02:01The character of these men is awful.
02:08And so on what we need to know, may there be more names and all the rest of it, yes.
02:13But you're going to hear the same story over and over again.
02:16Every time a new name comes out, like, I saw the video of Les Wexner's video of his deposition,
02:22where he was talking about, I didn't know that Jeffrey Epstein stole a billion dollars from me.
02:28Like, you know what?
02:30The scary part is, I actually believe him.
02:34Like, he had that much money that he just didn't miss it.
02:39And his relationship with Epstein was so important to him that even if he knew, he didn't care.
02:48Right?
02:49So you're going to see more of these kind of guys, right?
02:51Now, on the prosecution front, though, this goes way back.
02:56Like, I was the U.S. attorney in New Jersey when the Epstein case started.
03:02I want you to think about that.
03:04We're talking about 2007.
03:08I mean, 19 years ago.
03:10And I remember when the plea agreement was reached.
03:14You know, all of us amongst the U.S. attorney community would talk with each other about cases that were
03:19going on in other places.
03:20When I saw that Alex Acosta came to a plea agreement with a guy who was accused of pedophilia,
03:30where he turned the case over from the feds to the state,
03:36and they sentenced him to 18 months.
03:38But he could be out every day.
03:43He just had to sleep there.
03:46Like, as if it was a hotel.
03:48And he went to work every day.
03:50And a United States attorney under George W. Bush agreed to that deal.
03:56And a Justice Department agreed to that deal.
04:01And so, you know, Trump is just a continuation and expansion of that problem.
04:11Epstein got Alan Dershowitz and a whole bunch of other lawyers who did whatever they did with Alex Acosta.
04:19Who, again, this would have disappeared.
04:22It disappeared all through the Obama years.
04:24You didn't hear Eric Holder ever talk about Jeffrey Epstein, did you?
04:28Not once.
04:29Right?
04:30So all through the Obama years, it disappears.
04:32Trump comes in.
04:34The only reason it comes up is because Trump makes Alex Acosta the labor secretary.
04:40Great decision.
04:42So he goes into hearings, and the Democrats bring up Epstein and that plea deal.
04:49And then Acosta has to resign.
04:52And so it bubbles back up again.
04:54And now Trump's, and I was around at the time, so I know how angry he was.
04:59I didn't understand exactly why he was that angry, but he was really ripped.
05:04And the reason I know about it is because he offered me labor secretary first.
05:10And I turned it down because I didn't want to go in his cabinet.
05:14And he then gave it to Acosta.
05:16So when Acosta caused all these problems, Trump came to me and said, it's all your fault.
05:22If you had just said, yes, I would have never gotten this guy, and this stuff wouldn't have come out.
05:27I still didn't understand why he was so mad.
05:29I didn't know about his relationship with Epstein at that point.
05:33And really, very few people did.
05:35So my concern is that for most of the people who can be prosecuted, should be prosecuted, we're beyond the
05:43statute now.
05:44You need to know this stuff, this stuff goes back 19 years.
05:48And so, and every one of those administrations, Bush 43, Obama, Trump 45, Biden, and Trump 47 all own it.
06:02Now, Trump has made the Justice Department unrecognizable, and we would know more of the information about these people if
06:10people that were not bought and paid for by the president were not running the Justice Department.
06:16But that's what we've got, and I don't think, I think it's amazing that Tom Massey and Ro Khanna and
06:26others have gotten done what they've gotten done in light of all this.
06:31It really is.
06:32So, because left, you remember, Pam Bondi and Cash Patel both told us a year ago, there were no Epstein
06:41files.
06:41There was nothing in there.
06:43Now there's three million pages plus, right?
06:46So I guess it just showed up.
06:48You know, maybe it was like in an office at the FBI that no one had looked in for a
06:52while, you know?
06:53So we got to give credit.
06:56Like Congress deserves almost no credit for anything right now.
07:00I mean, seriously, in that same AP poll, Heath, you know what Congress's job approval is?
07:05This is impossible in one respect.
07:08Two?
07:09Four percent.
07:10Two.
07:10Oh.
07:10Four.
07:11So I think two things.
07:13My God, how could Congress only have four percent approval?
07:15Then I think, how do they even have four percent approval?
07:18Like, who are those people?
07:20Like, I love to interview those people.
07:22Like, okay, so you think Congress is doing a great job.
07:25Yep.
07:26Tell me why.
07:27Like, I think those would be some fascinating answers.
07:29See, those four percent are.
07:30It's Nancy Mace voting for herself.
07:32It could be.
07:34Could be Nancy.
07:35Even Marjorie Taylor Greene doesn't want to be in Congress anymore.
07:39She doesn't even like Congress.
07:40Think about how bad Congress has become when Marjorie Taylor Greene goes,
07:45no, this is too much of a shit show for me.
07:47I'm out of here.
07:48Like, right?
07:50I mean, it's just, it's incredible.
07:53She's like, no, this has gone too far.
07:55Like, this is absurd.
07:58You can't imagine you could live that long.
08:00But in the context of all that, Ro Khanna and Tom Massey,
08:04without the two of them, we wouldn't know what we know now about the Epstein files.
08:09We wouldn't.
08:09The Trump administration would have never released it.
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