- 14 minutes ago
On this episode of Shady, our host Danielle Cadet is looking to get to the bottom of the Black maternal and infant mortality rate in America. She consults experts and well as those affected by this nation-wide crisis.
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00:00Some doctors, some nurses, don't want you to ask any questions.
00:04Our grandparents didn't really want to go to the doctor because they never trusted the doctor.
00:08So then that got passed on to us.
00:11I felt like your biases is why my son is not here.
00:15Across the country, many black women are trying to realize the American dream, having a family.
00:21The problem is, far too many of them are going into the hospital and not making it back out.
00:27Income, prior health issues, genetics, none of it explains the disparity black women face.
00:33The one thing that could is something this country has struggled with for centuries.
00:37Do you feel racism plays a role in the care that black women are receiving?
00:43I do. I really do.
00:52Meet Charles Johnson. He's a super dad.
01:02A single father, he's raising two boys on his own, but it's not how he wanted it to be.
01:08I married a woman that was far smarter than me, that really challenged me to be a better person in
01:12every aspect of my life.
01:14And I depended on him so much.
01:17Charles and his wife, Kira, had a whole life planned together.
01:21We always talked about raising men that would change the world.
01:25That's what we thought of and everything that we talked about was focused and centered around that.
01:30Two years ago, everything changed when they went to the hospital for the birth of their second son.
01:35She said, don't leave the hospital without me.
01:39And that was what I was saying.
01:40Don't leave the hospital without me.
01:42Don't leave the hospital.
01:42Like, I don't leave until we leave together.
01:45The thought that I would walk into that hospital and not be able to keep my promise.
01:53For me, it was just this feeling that I just let her down in such the worst possible way ever.
01:58What was supposed to be a routine C-section went terribly wrong.
02:04Kira was bleeding internally.
02:06Charles alleges no one took appropriate action.
02:09Throughout the day, throughout me watching my wife's condition deteriorate,
02:14at no point did the doctor or the medical staff sense of urgency heighten my life.
02:19Ultimately, Kira died after being taken into surgery.
02:23For them to fail to devalue her in that manner to this length is something that I really,
02:33even to this day, almost three years later, have a very tough time getting my mind around.
02:37It's a pattern of lack of compassion, lack of transparency, and then failing to act.
02:44Her energy is definitely in that place.
02:46You could see that her kids have her spirit.
02:50Hearing about their love story and their plans for their family gets infuriating because I think
02:56her death was completely preventable.
03:00I don't know.
03:01It just feels really wrong.
03:05The terrifying thing is, Kira's story could be mine.
03:09A woman who's educated, in love, financially stable, and black.
03:16You may or may not know, but black mothers are three times more likely to die than white
03:20mothers of delivery complications.
03:22And black infants are twice as likely to die during infancy than white babies.
03:28Researchers hypothesize that poorer birth outcomes among black families could be linked
03:32to income, prior health issues, or genetics.
03:35But what a growing body of research shows is far more disheartening.
03:40Black women have said that they have told their doctors that they were in pain,
03:44that they were uncomfortable, that something was wrong, and that they weren't listened to.
03:49I think that there's a lot of unconscious bias that sort of sets up a situation where you
03:54hear what you think you hear.
03:56You know, oh, she's always complaining of pain, or, you know, these preconceived notions that
04:00actually work against the patient.
04:22There's been a long tradition, going back at least as far as the United States was founded, of white physicians
04:29treating black patients like they are subhuman.
04:32That they do not feel pain like white people, and particularly the tradition that happens time and time again, of
04:41a black population being isolated and treated like lab animals.
04:50One of the most infamous instances of white physicians experimenting on enslaved women is Dr. Marion Sims, who began in
04:59the 1830s, having access to enslaved women.
05:04He was very interested in a series of gynecological diseases and abnormalities that he then used surgery without any anesthetic
05:14to try to repair.
05:16No anesthetics.
05:17No anesthetics.
05:19He's known as the father of gynecology.
05:21He used black women to learn.
05:23These were actually slaves who were being violated.
05:27Using the black body as a source of experimentation isn't limited to Dr. Sims.
05:32From the infamous Tuskegee study, a secret experiment on untreated syphilis in black men, to what became known as a
05:39Mississippi appendectomy, in which black women were sterilized without consent.
05:44The black American experience has too often been a painful one.
05:49I don't think our medical industry is any more racist than our country.
05:54Our country has had a very complicated history of how we've treated black people.
06:01It's an issue that few people like to admit still exists, but the consequences of which are bigger than I
06:07could have imagined.
06:08I think the other thing that is important to sort of bring into the conversation is that maternal mortality is
06:13actually the tip off the iceberg.
06:1935-year-old Roxy is pregnant for the second time.
06:23It was just last year that her first pregnancy ended with complications.
06:28I could tell that something was going on that day because I just woke up feeling weird and not even
06:33like feeling weird like physically.
06:35It was just like something in me just could just tell that this day was just not going to be
06:39right.
06:39My water breaks and it was like a gush.
06:43I was trying to tell myself that this is not what's happening because it was so early.
06:47Roxy and her husband went to the emergency room hoping for the best.
06:51When I went for the ultrasound, that's when they discovered that he had no heartbeat.
06:58The doctor comes in and he's just like, you know, I'm so sorry there's no heartbeat.
07:02And, you know, we're just devastated.
07:06At 17 weeks, Roxy delivered her son, Lee.
07:11And he was perfect, honestly.
07:13Like, he was just a tiny little baby.
07:16Like, he had ten fingers, ten toes.
07:20You know, he had a little cute nose and mouth.
07:24And his eyes were closed, of course, and they hadn't developed yet.
07:27But he was perfect.
07:29Like, he looked like a little baby.
07:32The sad reality is Roxy isn't alone.
07:34I didn't think that I would lose two babies and almost lose my life.
07:39All of these women have lost babies.
07:41Some more than one.
07:43And the truth is, it feels like just another thing black women have to deal with.
07:48When it comes to just how you show up in the world, we all are battling these stereotypes
07:56that are already laid out for us.
07:58Whether it's the mammy, the Jezebel, strong black woman, angry black woman, whatever you
08:02want to call it.
08:03And I think that plays a role in how we get pregnant, stay pregnant, bring a baby home.
08:09Absolutely.
08:09I mean, I love what you said.
08:11Like, we carry it.
08:12We carry it.
08:12We carry it on our shoulders.
08:13We carry it in our gut.
08:14That black women tend to hold things inside.
08:18And anytime you're holding in anger, fear, grief, all of these emotions, different things
08:25just begin to develop because of stress that hasn't been dealt with.
08:32Researchers are starting to see what these women already know.
08:37There's been data that suggests lifelong stress or generations of stress has been associated
08:42with increased risk for preterm labor and preterm birth.
08:46I think the data would suggest that racism is a long-term stress, which can lead to poor
08:55health outcomes.
08:56Stress looks a lot like regular pains.
08:59My chest is tight.
09:01Something in my chest hurts.
09:03And only to find out from your doctor, you're perfectly healthy.
09:08So where are these pains coming from?
09:10Where are these migraines coming from?
09:12You're like, oh crap, I can't get pregnant because I have all this other stuff going on.
09:16But it's a combination of all these other outside stressors that have played a role into,
09:21you know, our diet, our living.
09:24And I think that that definitely is why black women have higher rates of infertility.
09:30And then, of course, why the infant mortality rates are the way they are today.
09:35In the early days of her pregnancy, Roxy had been healthy and happy.
09:39But midway through her second trimester, a lesson about freedom of speech among black
09:43football players taught at her mostly white school sparked a controversy that made the
09:48news.
09:48It got to the point that I started receiving emails saying that I needed to get fired.
09:54Then it started getting to the school where the school was receiving death threats.
09:58Like, just when I think, oh, this is about to go away, something else would happen.
10:02I'm pretty sure a huge part of it had to do with the fact that I'm black.
10:09It's nearly impossible to say for sure.
10:11Was it racism?
10:13But it's a question that black women often have to confront in our most devastating moments.
10:18I do believe that there have been certain instances where I may not have received the best
10:23medical care because I am a black woman.
10:24When you give birth, you're supposed to deliver the placenta within 30 minutes or so.
10:30I had this white male doctor who was on call at the time.
10:33He was saying that the placenta was not detaching.
10:36And it wasn't until the next doctor came on call.
10:39And she pressed on my stomach a few times and delivered it quickly.
10:43If all she had to do was push on my stomach a few times to get it out, then why
10:46couldn't
10:46he have done the same?
10:47Did he not want to touch me?
10:48Like, I don't know.
10:50I can remember being in the NICU with Makai.
10:54I wasn't allowed to hold him.
10:58There's other premature babies in here being held.
11:01Why not him?
11:03I'm asking him questions about it.
11:05Then that's when I got the attitude like I'm bothering them, you know?
11:11They did exactly what I was always scared of.
11:13So they ignored me.
11:14He ended up missing so many signs.
11:17Your concerns are like, hurry up, get this.
11:21And so it is frustrating.
11:25The simple act of questioning your own experience is difficult to navigate.
11:29And these exact concerns have led black women to create a community, a safe space, so that
11:35we don't have to worry about whether or not we've been given adequate care.
11:39I left that hospital and I became my own advocate.
11:43It took, you know, three times of this for me to actually stand up for myself.
11:48Now that all of us share our stories with loss, infertility, but also experiences in the doctor's
11:55office, in the OB-GYN office, in the hospitals that they go to, to tell people to not go to
12:00those places, to go find a different provider that can take care of you so that you can feel
12:05secure.
12:05What should the medical industry be doing to address this problem?
12:09When I had my third and final child, I felt like I needed a doula and, um, and I didn't
12:16get that.
12:17That was what being a midwife was about.
12:20It was a community service and it was a family commitment.
12:25It passed from generation to generation.
12:28It was black women helping black women.
12:31And over years that black midwives serve in that capacity, many of them will help birth
12:37hundreds of children.
12:38So black women helping each other and by extent, helping the community.
12:43Helping the community.
12:44Black women will make a way out of no way.
12:47That is powerful.
12:50That exhibit on black midwives just blew me away because black women will come together and
12:57solve a problem no matter what it is.
13:00It was such a reflection of who black women have always been, of just creating this community
13:06in order to maintain our own well-being, our children's well-being, our community's well-being.
13:12I thought that was incredible.
13:16With a doula by her side, it's the kind of tradition that Roxy is living every day.
13:22So with this pregnancy, it is a high-risk pregnancy, not only because I suffered a loss,
13:26but because of my age also.
13:28Now here I am at 36 weeks.
13:30Still not quite there.
13:31You still have those feelings like maybe I just can't have a baby.
13:35You know, there's still fear there that anything can happen.
13:38It won't be until I'm literally holding her in my arms and she's crying and she's moving
13:44that, you know, I'll really know that it's real and that she's, you know, safe and healthy
13:48and happy.
13:49We are on the way to the hospital.
13:52We are actually having her today.
13:55We are definitely excited.
13:57I'm definitely scared because she is measuring a little small.
14:01With her baby measuring in at a low birth weight, Roxy had to deliver early.
14:07But ultimately, her daughter Ever was born healthy and strong.
14:17I'm here in Atlanta, in good old Atlanta traffic, headed to see Roxy, who just had a baby girl
14:24Ever, and I'm so excited to meet the little baby.
14:27I can't wait.
14:39It was so wonderful to see her and her beautiful baby girl Ever.
14:43It's really nice to see, even in the face of so much adversity and such disheartening
14:50statistics, that there are Black women out here who are having beautiful babies and raising
14:57beautiful families.
14:59It was really encouraging to see her, especially after her loss.
15:03And just hearing her say that she didn't let that get her down and she was willing to keep
15:08trying because she knew she wanted to be a mother, and that just really warmed my heart.
15:13What would you say to anybody who says that this problem isn't solvable?
15:18This problem is solvable.
15:19And we know that because we've seen progress in other countries.
15:23We've seen progress in the states that have implemented programs.
15:27So we have the fixes, we have the tools.
15:29It's about raising the consciousness, first and foremost, letting people know that this is a problem.
15:35I think Black people have been working around the system since we've been in this country.
15:40And I think the answer is challenging our country to just get better, do a better job of seeing us.
15:49I want to encourage Black women to make this country see us.