- 3 days ago
Tess Holliday isn't someone to take her success for granted...because she's more than earned it. Frequently bullied while growing up in a small town in the Bible Belt, Tess dreamed of being a model, despite the fact that there were no models working that looked like her. Fast-forward, and this international celebrity and advocate for body diversity and body positivity has just released her TV special on People, graced the covers of both Self and Cosmo UK, not to mention a slew of other projects in the works. As one of the most recognizable plus-size models and activists, Tess has completely upended the world's notions of size inclusivity, and what that really looks like.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. In every generation of models, there's always one serious trailblazer,
00:32someone who shatters the paradigm and ultimately changes the game for everyone. In the 1960s,
00:39Daniel Luna appeared on British Vogue and was touted the first black supermodel. Gia Karangi
00:45changed the face of 1980s fashion while living as an openly queer woman. These icons pushed the
00:52boundaries of our consistently narrow beauty standards. And then Tess Holliday came along
00:57and threw them all right out the window. Fuck your beauty standards, she said. A new groundbreaker
01:03was born. The truth is, Tess was an outlier from the start. At 15, she attended an open call for
01:10plus-size models. The casting agents told her to quit. At 5'4 and a size 16, Tess was both
01:16too short
01:17and too big. She knew they were right, but she didn't care. Tess was used to adversity. Her childhood
01:23was marked by violence and hardship. Her mother was disabled after being shot by a boyfriend. And Tess
01:29was bullied so brutally at school that she left early and got her GED. Tess knew she was different
01:35from other aspiring models, in many ways. But something urged her to keep going. So she did,
01:41for 10 years. Finally, in 2011, something began to shift. She was working as a receptionist,
01:49doing occasional photo shoots and posting self-produced photos online. Her face was getting
01:53out there, but not her name. And all that changed in 2013, when Tess first used her now famous Instagram
02:01hashtag, F your beauty standards. The phrase became a battle cry for the body positivity movement.
02:08And Tess was one of its most visible and vocal champions. Millions flocked to her platform,
02:14where she shared stunning, sometimes arresting photos of herself, proving beyond any doubt that
02:19Tess was indeed a supermodel in the making. She then landed a deal with Milk Management. And just like
02:25that, Tess became the first size 22 model to sign with a mainstream agency. Consider a new paradigm
02:32born. Today, Tess is pretty much living her dream. She's a celebrated model, an activist, a mother of
02:40two, and married to her longtime partner. But the battle for inclusion is far from over. And Tess wakes
02:46up every day ready to charge to the forefront, like the pioneers who came before her. She's leading
02:52her industry into the future. In full hair and makeup, of course, with a baby on her hip.
03:13Tess Holliday, it is such a pleasure to have you as a guest on Unstyled today. Thank you for being
03:18here. Thanks for having me. You just did the self cover, and you did an incredible story. And there
03:25was just so much promotion around that. But also just Cosmo UK just came out. How does that feel?
03:30I mean, I was blown away by that cover. Thank you. It was really hard to keep a secret. I
03:37told like
03:38a few close friends. And I know that you understand, like in the industry, you never really get excited
03:44about anything until it happens until you actually see it. And so even that the truth, I just everyone
03:50promises you everything and let's get coffee and nothing happens. And so when I went over to shoot
03:56the cover when it was my second time meeting Farah, the editor, I was completely blown away by her and
04:02the staff and the fact that she told me like your body is a Cosmo body and leading up to
04:07the cover,
04:07I was an absolute train wreck because I felt like I don't look the way that I should look for
04:13Cosmopolitan. And I was like picking myself apart because it was just like the stereotypical,
04:19you know, magazine that you'd seen so long and like the same bodies and the same. I don't know. So
04:24I felt
04:24like I didn't belong. It was really it really messed with me, actually. So I had to keep like psyching
04:30myself up. What did you think you were supposed to look like? I mean, I know, obviously, I don't look
04:36like everybody else. But in my mind, I was like, well, you know, I'm too fat. And I'm to this
04:41to do
04:42Cosmo. And I was like, I felt honestly, I kind of felt like they were messing with me until I
04:47actually got there. But that's my own trauma and everything coming into it. I know, but it's my
04:53own. It's my own trauma. Like I, I've really done a lot of work this year with my with actually
05:00my
05:00trauma, because when I was writing my book, a lot of it resurfaced. So I've been kind of dealing with
05:05all of that. But since the covers come out, I wasn't expecting the response that it got. I mean,
05:11the self magazine kind of prepared me a little bit. But Cosmo was a whole nother level and
05:16everyone dissecting my body. But honestly, I've been on like, not even cloud nine, like cloud 100.
05:24I mean, obviously, there's always people and everything that I do, that say that I'm promoting
05:29obesity and how disgusting I am. And, you know, it's, I definitely have days where it bothers me.
05:35But in this, in this instance, like I had a party at my house, and I put my best friend
05:40put my cover on a cake. And it was I saw you eating it. I was just I think I
05:45cried during
05:46that post too, because I can't even imagine what it feels like to be on the cover of one
05:50of the most influential and iconic women's magazines of all time. And it's a beautiful cover.
05:57Thanks. I'm really proud of it.
05:59If you haven't seen the cover of Tess Holiday on Cosmo UK, please go out and get it or check
06:05it out on her Instagram. It's oh, beautiful.
06:08Yeah. And I can't even imagine like, you thinking for a second, although it's, you know, I don't
06:14think any of us really know what each other goes through. Because it feels like such an
06:19amazing Cosmo cover. Like it feels like totally right for Cosmo, especially in the UK.
06:23I am, you know, the UK has such an issue with with size acceptance. And they're not as far,
06:30they're not as progressive as we are in the US, even though all of my favorite plus size fashion
06:36mostly comes out of the UK. Like I feel like they have the fashion down. But as far as like
06:41them
06:41accepting, you know, marginalized bodies, not so much. So it really means a lot to them. But I also
06:47think that's why it was such a shock to people because they're, you know, it's frustrating to use the
06:53word shock in regards to my body, because it's like, so gross. But that's really what, you know,
07:00unfortunately, that's what a lot of people associate with when they see me is like the shock
07:05of, you know, someone, my size existing, which is why I have a lot more work to do, because it
07:12shouldn't, there shouldn't be the correlation there.
07:15What do you think sort of like creates that reaction? Do you think it's just discomfort in
07:18themselves? Do you think it's just societal? What do you think is kind of prompting that kind of
07:22reaction?
07:23It's definitely a combination of everything that you said. It's definitely, you know,
07:29it comes down to people projecting their own insecurities onto me. And for so long, our society
07:36worldwide has been told that the worst thing you could be is fat, right? So the worst thing in the
07:42world that could happen, well, you know, I might be this or that, but at least I'm not fat, right?
07:46Or
07:46there's all of this stuff and all of, you know, the diet industry is a multi-billion dollar
07:51industry and it capitalizes on all of us feeling horrible about ourselves. And so, um, you know,
07:58to, to most people, I'm what their worst nightmares look like, but I'm like, I'm pretty fabulous. So I
08:05feel like, um, you know, I must be like a beautiful nightmare or something. I don't know. Gross. That's
08:10a song. But, um, you know what I mean? It's just, uh, it's frustrating. It's frustrating to carry
08:17so much of like people's emotional energies with me all the time. But the rewarding part is like,
08:24um, I go to Disneyland a lot, which everyone knows they live 20 minutes away from there and I go
08:28all
08:28the time. But part of why I go is because a ton of my followers, uh, come up to me
08:34when I'm there and
08:35it makes their day. And, and, you know, people are crying when they meet me saying that like,
08:41because of seeing someone like me, they're able to exist in this world. And so that's why
08:46regardless of their differences, a hundred percent. And, and, and the people that come up to me,
08:51people, I think there's a misconception that they're plus size and they're not. They're
08:55all kinds of, of people like women, men, however they identify, whatever they look like. It's
09:03because everyone feels crappy about themselves in some aspect, at least once a week. So it's nice.
09:12I think it's occasionally more than that. Mine's like 20 times a day, but, um, you know, it's,
09:17that's why I just try to be honest about it, that, that it's, none of this is easy.
09:22How do you translate if something like that occurs? That's particularly upsetting. You know,
09:27you just, um, talked about like sort of working with your trauma and I know that you've been working
09:31with like this new trainer and how do you, do you have like any kind of like default that you
09:37engage in order to make sure that you don't really like react to it, like sort of breaking a pattern
09:43of how, how you actually feel after something like that happens?
09:47Usually. So in this instance with how I've been feeling, especially with this past week,
09:53with Cosmo blowing up.
09:54That's gotta be some serious validation.
09:56No, it's been great. But I, when I said blowing up, I meant like more like people ripping apart my
10:02body. Right. So I can't even, I do my best to respond to as many followers as I can. Like,
10:09especially on Twitter, I try to engage with them and, you know, it makes them feel better and it
10:13makes me feel good. And I was trying to keep up with all of it when I first came out.
10:17And then of
10:18course the flood of stuff comes in about, um, people tearing me apart. And normally what I would do
10:24is delete all of the social media apps off of my phone. So not delete my account, but just delete
10:30social media off of my phone for a couple of days. If I don't have work I have to do,
10:34or my publicists are incredibly supportive and they will, you know, take over social for me or find
10:41someone that can so that I can take a break. So I will, in that case, if I feel myself
10:48going down a
10:48spiral, uh, my husband usually notices it before I do. And he'll say, he'll take my phone away from
10:55me or he'll tell me to take a moment and take a break from social media. Or even yesterday when
11:00I
11:00was on the plane, I connected to wifi because my two year old started preschool. And so I wanted to
11:06see how he was. And I messaged my husband and he goes, you should be using this time to take
11:12a break
11:13from social media, but you have not. Watch a terrible movie. To be honest, the answer really
11:18is just deconnecting from social media and giving myself a break and also trying to be kind to myself
11:25and, and not try to absorb some of people's awful energies, but it's, but I'm not good at it. Like
11:33sometimes I work out, sometimes that means I eat pizza that night and like watch a bad movie with my
11:39kids. And it, I wish that I had a better system, but lately I've been not as great at doing
11:45self
11:46care. I think it does sound like you have a pretty solid system and it sounds like you have a
11:50good
11:50partner if he's paying attention and he notices when there's a change. So this quote that was in
11:56the self piece that came out about a month and a half or two months ago really moved me, but
12:00it also
12:00felt like such a turning point in this sort of ongoing dialogue that you are having with your,
12:06not just your audience, but I think with, you know, the culture of body positivity and what that
12:11means and how people engage with that conversation. And you said, by telling people that you see a
12:19doctor and telling people that you're healthy, it's perpetuating the abuse against bigger bodies and
12:24the mindset that we owe it to people to be healthy. The reality is I don't owe you shit and
12:29I don't have
12:30to prove that I'm healthy or not because it is nobody's business, but mind. And I actually really
12:36love that. And it's interesting because I'm being pregnant now. I've noticed that people look at you
12:43when you're pregnant and they feel, everybody sort of feels entitled to have an opinion about your body,
12:50touching you. And I can only imagine that that's a small part of what it might feel like,
12:55you know, for you to actually sort of endure that kind of objectification all the time.
13:01Being pregnant and fat and having a large following and every, you know, every news outlet looking
13:09at me was awful because everyone was just like, in my head, I kept thinking, I hope I don't have,
13:18you know, gestational diabetes. My husband and I went to a movie theater right before my test and
13:24forgot that I wasn't supposed to eat. So I had popcorn and peanut M&Ms and then went in for
13:29my
13:30test. Girl, you're not supposed to have any carbs. So we came back the next day and I was fine.
13:35I literally thought through my entire pregnancy, like, what if I get something? Everyone's going
13:39to blame it on the fact that I'm fat. Or even now I was walking through JFK and I had
13:45new tennis shoes
13:45on and they slipped yesterday. And I thought to myself, if I broke my fucking leg, everyone would say,
13:51oh, it's because she's fat or whatever. And so it's, it's a constant thing in my head where-
13:57You feel like you have to justify it.
13:58A hundred percent. It's extremely frustrating. When I was pregnant, everyone would say, well,
14:03I hope you don't eat your baby or, you know-
14:06Not people that you know.
14:07No, they would not be my friends. I'm very, I, because of my, my childhood and my trauma and all
14:13of that, I'm very weird about who I let into my circle, but also because I'm a public figure and
14:18whatever, that's a whole nother story. But no, strangers would say that I was going to eat my
14:22baby or that I was, you know, going to kill my child and just horrible things that no one should
14:28say to anybody. But because I am fat and because I was pregnant, people felt like they were quote
14:34unquote saving me from myself. And, um, even now I would say that most interactions from people
14:41are positive when they see me, even if they don't know me, I get a, you know, people compliment me
14:46quite a bit and they say nice things to me. But I also think like, that's probably because of the
14:53way that I carry myself and I'm over the top and I don't care. But I also think about my
14:58friends,
14:59like my friend, Cindy back home, like, and I'm not calling her out. This is just how she is.
15:04She doesn't show her arms and she wears cardigans no matter the weather and leggings and she
15:09hides her body. And, you know, we've been friends for 10 years. And I think like how people would
15:15treat or look at her because she covers herself and hides like the judgment that people pass on
15:21her unfairly. And I don't know, I just, um, I, I stopped telling people, especially when I got
15:29pregnant and after that I'm healthy. And I stopped having the conversation with them because it just
15:34gives people, it kind of gives them permission to, to keep saying gross things to me and inappropriate
15:42things about my body and judging me, um, unfairly. I hope things change. I think that they are, but,
15:48um, I don't know if things are going to change in the time that I'm like on this earth, but
15:53we'll see
15:54like to where, especially for, for fat bodies. The one thing that's encouraging is that people are
15:59talking about it, that it is finally a dialogue that's, that exists not just in the fashion industry.
16:06And it's like nice to see that there is a, an awareness on some level that seeing diverse body
16:12types is really, really important for, for everyone. Yeah.
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16:42strong, and always the real you in your own style.
16:54But I want to talk a little bit about when you were growing up, you had a really difficult
16:57relationship with your father and your mother became disabled after she was shot by, was it a boyfriend?
17:04It was her new fiance. Yeah.
17:07So that's a pretty difficult environment to, to grow up in, to really find your, your place in,
17:15and to really feel, you know, secure and strong. But tell me what it was like dealing with your dad's
17:21behavior towards you and sort of being seen or not seen by him.
17:26It was quite difficult. I find myself trying to break some of the behavior even now with my own
17:34children. Um, because he had a really awful temper and he would, uh, and I talk about him in past
17:41tense because I haven't seen or spoken to him in five years, I guess it's been. And he had a
17:50short
17:50temper and he would say horrible things to me. And then sometimes he would apologize and sometimes he
17:56wouldn't. Um, but I grew to understand that the apologies didn't mean anything at a very young age
18:02because the behavior would continue. They say that children who are abused are more likely to be
18:09abusers. And so I noticed that when I get upset, I have to really catch myself to not lash out
18:17and
18:17say awful things because I don't want to be that person. My older son, Riley will be 13 in January.
18:24And I had only one instance where I said something that I shouldn't have. And I sat him down and
18:31had
18:31a really long conversation. And I said, look, even though I went through all of this as a kid,
18:37I know that that doesn't excuse my behavior and how I acted. And I literally debriefed it with him.
18:42And thank goodness he's a beautiful child. And he, I always refer to him as my partner in crime
18:48because him and I have grown up together. I had him when I was 20 and, and him and I
18:52have been
18:53through a lot together and he is smart and he understood. And, but I don't want to like be that
19:00person because of my father. And I, and I think that, um, oftentimes people that grow up in abusive
19:07environments, I don't think that they use it as an excuse, but I think that when you have so much
19:13trauma so early in your life that you can either let it eat you alive or you can take it
19:21and hopefully
19:22change it and do something with it. And I'm really grateful that I have made it out on the other
19:28side
19:29of, of all the awful stuff I went through, but it still resurfaces. I still deal with everything that
19:35I went through, um, in my childhood now currently, like I have to fight it constantly. It ruined my
19:43body image. It ruined my relationships with men. I didn't date. I've had two relationships in my entire
19:51life. It's been, it was tough. It's been tough. I think it's really, really difficult to let go of
19:59the anger that you have about things that happened when you're a kid. I mean, I'm in my forties and
20:04sometimes my husband, like I'll be complaining about something because something triggered it,
20:09triggered a memory or, or, you know, something that happened that really felt painful for me.
20:15And he'll just be like, you have to let that go. You have to let that go.
20:18That's exactly what my husband tells me.
20:21Yeah. And I think that, you know, he's such a great example to me because he is someone that's
20:25a little bit more relaxed about like living in the present and really just reacting to what's
20:30happening around him in the moment. And I can sometimes really like go to that place and really
20:37kind of wallow in, um, and feel sorry for myself. I want someone to feel sorry for me because,
20:43you know, I think to myself sometimes, you know, what could, what kind of potential could I have
20:48had, had I not had a little bit more, you know, encouragement or support. And it's something that
20:55I think about a lot on the, you know, sort of like on the eve of, of having my first
20:59child.
21:00What do you think is different about what you know about parenting between your two sons? There was
21:06about 10 years between them. 10 years. Yeah. 2006 and 2016. So what do you think
21:12maybe you've learned over that decade? And how did you sort of approach being a mom in a different
21:18way? And what was maybe the same? Man, I, I said this the other day to someone when I found
21:25out that
21:25I was, I was pregnant. Um, I got pregnant when I was 19. I had my first son when I
21:30was 20.
21:31And you always considered having him. It was like not even a question.
21:34No, I, um, I talk about it in my book. I am, I actually, I was going to consider terminating
21:42the
21:42pregnancy, but because I'm from Mississippi, I'm from the Bible Belt. That was not an option for me
21:49at that time. Now I, it definitely would be different, but there was so much shame and stuff
21:54from where I had grown up and, and pressure from my, uh, my mother and my family once they found
22:02out. So that wasn't an option. And then I met with one family about doing an adoption and I couldn't
22:10do
22:10it. I, I was six months pregnant before I really admitted to myself that I was pregnant. I didn't see
22:16a doctor until I was six months pregnant. Um, because I don't think you're alone in that. I think,
22:22that I think there's probably a lot of women that have done that. Well, I kept trying to think that
22:27if I forgot that it wasn't real, that it wouldn't be real because I, it doesn't go away. I found
22:33that
22:33out. Um, but I, um, I really struggled with, um, with like, am I going to love this child? Am
22:42I going
22:42to be able to feel connected to him? Because I, um, you know, I didn't know, uh, hit, you know,
22:50his birth father. And there were so many things that, that I went through in my, in my head. And
22:56I
22:56actually had to go to counseling when I was pregnant because I was terrified that I wouldn't
23:01be able to love this child. And I would say that it took me and, and Riley, um, we didn't
23:08quite bond
23:09until he was about three years old. So I loved him. I cared for him. I was there every single
23:14day,
23:14but that feeling that people talk about when they have a child wasn't there for me with him because
23:21I wasn't ready. I didn't know what I was doing. I was a single mom. I was struggling to support
23:27us.
23:28And, and so I really, and even my whole birth process, like it was quite cold. Like I had a
23:34C-section. They took him away from me. I didn't see him for a couple hours afterwards. So there was
23:40no skin to skin. I mean, it was, it, I was treated kind of like a factory. Yeah. And so
23:47that our
23:48relationship really suffered in the beginning. Now it's incredibly different having Bowie and being
23:56married. It was unexpected, but we were both so excited. And I will say that having, having Bowie
24:03really made all of us feel like a family. And it brought not only me closer to Riley, but it
24:09made
24:10him, like he, he was the one that wanted a sibling. He kept asking us for a sibling. And,
24:15and now having a child in my thirties and, and not struggling like I was when I had Riley being
24:23financially secure and like so many, all of those stresses taken out of my life, I finally get it.
24:30And I feel, it almost makes me sad if I'm honest, because I wish that I could kind of redo
24:36everything
24:36with my older son, because I feel like he missed out on a lot, but I also know that I
24:41can't,
24:42my husband always tells me I can't beat myself up over it.
24:45But do you think that Riley maybe taught you how to love?
24:48Yeah, I think so. It's a nice way to put it. I do.
24:50I mean, you were 19 years old and you'd had a pretty rough childhood. And I think this perfect
24:56little being comes into your life. I mean, I think, how can you not really learn about loving
25:02yourself, loving somebody else, you know, the beginnings of, of that sort of pattern breaking
25:09like begins. And I think that maybe that's like, maybe it's not so much about what you
25:14could have given him, but what, you know, he was able to give to you.
25:17I'm trying not to cry right now because that's really real. It's no, that's actually really true.
25:22I've never thought of it that way.
25:24Well, I think that there's like, not to get super woo woo, but I'm gonna do it. It's just,
25:29I do think that there is some truth to you choose your parents. I think that maybe it's
25:36more about what you guys were able to create together. And I think that that's what being
25:41a parent can, can be. I don't think it's necessarily just about you. I don't know,
25:46just being able to channel all of this perfect love and protection and support 24 hours a day.
25:52I just don't know that that's realistic.
25:54Well, it's good that you say that because there's so much pressure on parents, especially
26:01now in the age of social media, that everything is just perfect. Most of the mom bloggers that
26:07I follow are women of color and they talk about like what it's actually like, like the realness
26:14and rawness of, of being a mom. But there's so much pressure placed on moms for everything
26:19to be perfect and for, and for your life to be perfect when a child comes in. Yeah. But that's
26:24not the reality. The reality is that being a parent is messy. And half the time I have someone
26:31else bodily fluids all over me. And like, you know, it's not in like a sexual way, but like,
26:37you know, I've got like, I've got like whatever, like boogers and, you know, old suckers. And cause
26:44right now I have to bribe my two-year-old with lollipops to do anything. And I know people would
26:49probably judge me, but I don't really care unless they, you know, I, there's only so
26:53many times that a two-year-old can kick you in the face trying to put them in a car
26:56seat.
26:57So I'm like, take this lollipop. I don't care. Um, but if, if it, oh, he's a Gemini, he's
27:05a fighter. He sounds defiant. Oh, he's, I love the post that you had when you were trying to
27:10take a bath and you'd just gotten a new tattoo and your leg is literally like around your neck,
27:15but Bowie like insisted on getting in the bathtub with you. And you were really honest
27:20about the fact that he was like not having it. Oh, he was no, there was no sort of like
27:25alone time for you in that moment. I tell Riley all the time that I wouldn't be sitting here
27:29if it wasn't for him because having him made me start taking my life seriously because before
27:36that I was just a train wreck and having him gave me a purpose. And so that's what pushed
27:41me to have the career and be where I am. So I will say that in regards to Bowie, he's
27:46an
27:46absolute monster and in the best way, he's very strong willed. And my husband always jokes that he
27:53gets it from me. Like he gets his stubbornness from me because Nick always reminds me that I'm
27:59where I am because I don't take no for an answer, but I just, I don't know. I've just kind
28:04of always
28:05pushed along. And unfortunately I have spawned that into my toddler. So yeah, it's all about contrast.
28:32You have a special airing today on People TV.
28:37I do. So People Magazine, which everyone's familiar with, started a...
28:43I don't know it. What's that?
28:45I know, right? It's the only magazine that I grew up reading as a kid that my mom subscribed to.
28:50So People Magazine started a streaming platform called People TV. So it's an app that you download.
28:58So they have content now exclusive to People TV. So they have shows and mine is one of them.
29:05So it's called Tess Holliday, Making It Big. And it's basically just my life. It's basically just
29:14shows what goes into the photos that people see on Instagram. And really the reality that my life is
29:19not like, yes, I have moments of being glamorous, but my life is very far from it. There's actually...
29:27I think people really love that about you. I actually think it's something...
29:31Thanks.
29:31Yeah. I think it's something that is kind of an escape for people that you have such
29:37appreciation for caring for yourself and how you look. And I love your makeup. I love when you do
29:44your outfit shoots. And I just think it's really... I don't know. It's just fun. It's like a fantasy.
29:50You know, it's fun. The team that I have with me today of hair and makeup...
29:53You have a big crew.
29:55Well, I only have my hair and makeup and my publicist. But yeah, I do. My team that I have
30:00with me though, they will literally come over and do gigantic beehives and ridiculous makeup just to
30:07take photos to if I'm having a bad day, just to cheer me up. And it's fun. I would be
30:12lying if I
30:13said it wasn't fun. But then there's also like... In part of the show, there's... The show literally
30:19opens with me... I forget when I have microphones attached to me and then...
30:24We all do.
30:25And then you're like, oh, you're saying something stupid. So mine was... I blurted out,
30:31why didn't anyone tell me there was a sun chip in my tits? And then I laughed and said, well,
30:37I would have eaten it if I knew it was there.
30:39Of course you would have. Anyone would. I wish I had a bag of sun chips right now.
30:44Let's talk about your trainer, Masi. What are you guys teaching each other?
30:48Well, Masi had started following me on social media and I was very skeptical of her because
30:53I judged her unfairly because of her appearance. Because I'm like, who is this super fit woman
30:58who's following me?
31:00I follow her now through you and I cannot believe the stuff that she does.
31:03Oh, she's incredible.
31:04The way she works out.
31:06No, she's a monster.
31:07No joke.
31:08She's so gentle and understanding with me, but also tough. She likes to joke with me when
31:14we work out and she'll say, I'm like, oh, this is hard. And I'm struggling. And then at
31:19the end, I'll finish it. And she's like, you got this girl. But not in the trainer way,
31:23like you got this, but it's genuine. She's like, you got this. And then she'll say, but
31:26did you die? But did you die? That's what she'll say to me. And I have to laugh. And of
31:31course,
31:31now my husband says it to me when I'm complaining about something. He'll go, but did you die?
31:36And I'm like, oh, thanks, Mossy.
31:38Almost.
31:38I actually have not seen her in two weeks and I'm so upset about it. And I've never missed
31:45working out before ever. But she promised me that when we started this, I don't want to say
31:51journey, but when we started working out together, that she would make it fun. And I laughed in her
31:56face and she genuinely has made it fun for me. I enjoy doing all of the workouts and she makes
32:03me
32:03laugh. I laugh during every single workout because sometimes it's ridiculous and sometimes it is awful
32:10because working, I don't really know many people that actually love working out. And I'm not, I don't
32:15love working out, but I enjoy working out with her. She's teaching me that my body's capable of more
32:23than I thought that it was. Yeah. And so when I went to her, I said, I don't want to
32:28lose weight.
32:29I'm focused on strong and focused on like seeing what my body can do because I've done it all that
32:37I wanted to do mostly career wise. And I have more time to put into myself. So like what, like
32:44it's
32:44kind of more of a challenge. And for her, when I call myself fat, you can tell that it makes
32:49her a
32:49little uncomfortable and she'll try and correct me. And so I'm trying, I'm working with her on
32:54that. She never makes me feel bad about myself or if I message her and say like, look, I had
33:00pizza
33:00today. She's like, you can have pizza. That's fine. You know, but like you could have pizza this
33:05way. So she's growing up in Mississippi, I had horrible food choices. And so, um, I still love
33:11biscuits and gravy and grits and like fried pork chops and all that stuff. I can like cook it like
33:16nobody's business, but she's teaching me like what I need to eat now to keep up with the level
33:22that my career's at because I love pizza, but I also love quinoa and stuff now that I hate quinoa.
33:30I love quinoa. You know why? Cause it always gets stuck in my teeth and it's just like,
33:34it's really like a nightmare. I just use people's business cards that they give me to get quinoa
33:39out of my teeth. I just take photos of their business cards and then I, it's really bad.
33:46Can we talk a little bit about the industry of plus size fashion? And I don't know if you refer
33:52to it as that, but we talked a little bit about Christian Siriano and like what a important person
33:57he is in this movement around, um, extending sizes and, you know, allowing them for there to be more
34:04range and more options for people that really want to have a fashionable life and, um, and have choice.
34:13Nice. So tell me a little bit about some of the brands that you love and also what you think
34:18maybe needs to change.
34:19So, so with my fashion, I always like to mix in affordability with something high end because
34:26that's how I like to dress. I, I always hated it growing up. I mean, not that there were plus
34:31size women in magazines, you know, fashion magazines when I was growing up, but I always hated
34:35when I would read magazines and I couldn't afford anything. And so when my followers see me,
34:40I want them to be able to buy and wear what I'm wearing and be able to afford it. So
34:46I always keep
34:47that in the back of my mind and I speak to my stylist and my team that I want affordability,
34:52but then, yeah, I will put on like $700 glasses or whatever.
34:56Um, but I, it's all about balance.
34:59It is. It is. I feel like, yeah, it's not ridiculous, but I love ASOS. I like mod cloth. I
35:05like
35:05Zeely for she, I like Christian Siriano, Chromat, Jabri, who's based in Atlanta, who makes phenomenal
35:13stuff. There's so many designers, but I love people that do plus size fashion that like take
35:20risks with their clothing. And I know I'm leaving people off, but I'm just naming off the top of my
35:25head, but there's so, there's so much plus size options now that it's overwhelming, but I still
35:32like to go with people that take risks. I feel like in regards to how things need to change is
35:37just, I wish that more designers took risks. I wish that there were more options and high end
35:44there's so 11 on array is, is a company that has sprouted up that is starting to work with designers
35:51to actually carry high end pieces past, you know, a size. So I think they start at like 10 and
35:58go up
35:58to 22 now. And I really want to see more designers designing for past 22 because the reality is like
36:06we have money to spend and there are just no options. Like I, there's so many designers that
36:12I love and I just can't wear their stuff. So I'll buy their accessories, but I can't wear
36:17Do you reach out to them?
36:19The amount of times that I've reached out to Gucci is ridiculous.
36:23You should do a collab with them.
36:24I would love to. They do plus size for men, but they don't do plus size for women. And I
36:29know that
36:29they've dressed like Beth Ditto before for things. And so the capabilities are there, but I just,
36:35it's frustrating because I, I love like all of that stuff, but I can't, I can't wear it. So,
36:43and I love Alexander McQueen and Vivian Westwood. And so, but Vivian Westwood.
36:48Oh, I think you'd be amazing in Vivian Westwood.
36:49I have, she made.
36:51I'd look ridiculous in Vivian Westwood. Respect, but still.
36:55I, you know, I like, um, I, she makes oversized capes that actually fit my body. I just wish that
37:01there were more options, like high end options. I feel like in plus size, we have the kind of fast
37:08fashion down. Like I could name at least like 10 different places that have affordable fast plus
37:14size fashion. But as far as high end, we're just not there yet. Unfortunately, I want to design a
37:20collection of plus size coats. Oh my God. They're so easy to sort of just like throw on over your,
37:26you know, your leggings or anything that you have and just makes you feel really special.
37:30I'm obsessed with coats because it's just easy to layer or like dress up or dress down an outfit.
37:36And my four favorite, um, coats or jackets that I own are all vintage because they fit my arms
37:43because they had the styles were like, you know, bigger and billier and oversized. And now
37:48like plus size jackets never fit my arms because I, my arms are larger than most people's.
37:55We should do it together.
37:55I would love your, your mouth to baby Jesus's ears. I would love to.
38:00We could design all the textiles together. Who wants to do this with us?
38:04Um, I would love to.
38:06Tess Holliday. It is such an incredible time in your career and in your life right now. I'm so
38:12happy for you. And I thank you for, for just giving us all so much joy.
38:17Thank you for being a guest on Unstyled today.
38:20Thanks. It's been an absolute pleasure.
38:22Yay.
38:22Really.
38:29I hope you're inspired after hearing Tess's story for even more Unstyled extras, check out
38:35Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation using the hashtag
38:42Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be infinitely grateful if you please subscribe
38:48to Unstyled on Apple podcasts and rate us while you're there. You can head over to Refinery29.com
38:54to find this episode and more and make sure to sign up for our exclusive Unstyled newsletter
38:59delivered straight to your inbox every week. Our show today was executive produced by Bridget Todd,
39:05associate produced by Rebecca Easley and edited by Priscilla Mena. Copy support was provided by Kelsey
39:11Miller. Talent was booked by Joanna Bomberg. Our theme music today is by the artist Koff and we recorded
39:17Unstyled with Paul Ruiz at Argo Studios. We'll see you back here on Thursday for a conversation with
39:23actor, author, and social media star, Busy Phillips, ongoing filter-free. See you then.