00:00Hey, I'm Elisa Kreisinger and every week I unpack my strong opinions with the help of an expert who
00:05might not have all the answers, but they certainly know more than I do. That's why this is Strong
00:10Opinions Loosely Held. And on this week's show, what does it mean to be white? And why are white
00:15people so bad at talking about race? After spending 20 years running diversity trainings for big
00:21companies, Dr. Robin DiAngelo has heard every excuse in the book from white people on why they
00:27weren't racist. They had a black friend at work. They were colorblind. They did teach
00:32for America. Because, I mean, I'm a vegetarian, so how could I be racist? White people provided
00:37her with all of their evidence and credentials that proved they couldn't be racist. Put on
00:43your seat belt, listeners. White people are all racist. So after two decades of talking
00:48to white people about race, Dr. DiAngelo realized that not only were white people terrible at
00:54talking about racism, but they were oblivious to it, even millennials. I've been doing a
00:59lot of work with tech companies, and most employees are under 30, and they are oblivious. They see
01:07themselves as open, and yet they can't engage with any nuance or depth. And so they're flabbergasted
01:15when there are very few co-workers of color. Share with them how much pain they're in. Why are
01:21white people oblivious to racism? Well, for one, we can't even answer what it means to
01:26be white or have a race. If I can't answer that question, what does it mean to be white,
01:33I'm not going to be able to hold what it means not to be white. I'm not going to have
01:38any ability
01:39to validate an alternative experience. And that is what it's like for people of color every
01:43day. When they try to talk to us about their realities, we, in a range of ways, refuse that
01:49reality. Most of us will claim that race has no meaning to us, or if it has meaning to us,
01:55we've been in no way touched by racist conditioning or racist messages. Most of us feel exempt from
02:01the literal water we're swimming in. And the reason we feel exempt from the entire world around us
02:07is because we've convinced ourselves that we're different from other white people. Look, we know
02:12some white people are racist, but we're not like them. This idea that we're all special and unique,
02:18and that if I just knew this about you, I'd know why you were different. After all, you've been in
02:23Teach for America, haven't you? Alright, so let me get this straight. We don't want to acknowledge our
02:27own race despite living in a society where it has profound meaning, which makes it really hard to
02:32talk about racism. And yet the most offensive thing to call a white person is a racist. What's up with
02:38that? Racists are mean individuals who consciously don't like people based on race and intentionally
02:44seek to harm them. If that is your definition of a racist, and I say to you, boy, what you
02:50just said
02:50was racist, you're going to hear that I just said you were an intentionally mean person. And you're
02:56going to experience that as a question to your very moral integrity. Right, because then it means
03:02you're a genuinely bad person and you're immoral. Right. Everyone has racial bias, but this is part
03:08of what makes it so challenging. We know it on some level, but we can't admit to it because we
03:14believe it would mean we were immoral. Dr. D'Angelo pointed out that white people live the most
03:19segregated lives of any other racial group. Let that sink in for a second. We, white people, are the
03:25most segregated group of any race. And when we describe our segregated environments, we call them good.
03:33When you tell me this is a good neighborhood, I just, the assumption is it's white. When you tell me
03:39it's a good school, that's the assumption. When you tell me it's coming up, it's getting whiter.
03:44You tell me it's going down, getting less white. You tell me it's sketchy, not white. White people
03:50measure the value of our schools and our neighborhoods by the absence of people of color.
03:56All of this adds up to the dynamic that Dr. D'Angelo calls white fragility. But basically it's the idea
04:02that white people are totally unable to sustain even the most minimal level of racial discomfort.
04:09We make it so miserable for people of color to talk to us about our inevitable and often unaware
04:15racist patterns that most of the time, trust me, they don't. It's not worth it. They risk more
04:20punishment. They risk our hurt feelings, our defensiveness. If we're white women, they risk
04:26us bursting into tears. And then they become the aggressor and we become the victim. And so it's
04:33a really effective form of everyday white racial control.
04:36Our culture is really, really good at reproducing racial inequality. It's what we've always done.
04:42And so in order for the system to maintain itself, all we have to do as white people is just
04:47be nice.
04:48Just be really nice. Go smile at your co-workers of color, go to lunch on occasion, don't do anything
04:53else. And you will play your part. Niceness is not anti-racism. It takes strategic intentional action.
05:01So how do white people help end racism? Well, first of all, we have to admit that we are racist.
05:08That's the biggest and the best thing that we can do because after that, it's all downhill.
05:13Because you can stop defending, deflecting, denying, being defensiveness, being guilty.
05:18I often ask people of color when I'm in front of a group, what would it be like if you
05:24could just
05:25tell us when we stepped in it and had us receive that feedback with grace, reflect and seek to change
05:34the behavior? What would that be like? And I'll never forget this man of color raising his hand and saying,
05:38it would be revolutionary. And I just want you to take that in. Revolutionary. That we would receive
05:44the feedback with grace on our inevitable and often unaware racist patterns, reflect on them,
05:50and seek to change them. That's how difficult we are. That that's a revolution. But that's how easy it
05:56is. We just can't get there from the current paradigm that says I've been untouched by the forces of racism
06:02and if you suggest I've been touched by them, you just thought I was bad. We can't get there from
06:07that
06:07paradigm. Look, our paper thin skin and our fragile egos aren't helping anyone. If we can just own up to
06:14the fact that we have been relentlessly reinforced messages of superiority our entire lives, we can
06:20stop holding up centuries of racism. It's not that hard. We just have to admit it.
