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The full interview with HRH The Princess of Wales, which aired on BBC Panorama on 20 November 1995.
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00:00Now on BBC Two, one of the most famous interviews ever televised.
00:0423 million people watched it the first time.
00:07Diana, Princess of Wales, on Panorama.
00:151981, the wedding of the century.
00:18Prince Charles and Lady Diana Spencer, the future King and Queen.
00:24But the fairy tale wasn't to be.
00:27Tonight on Panorama, the Princess of Wales.
00:32She won't go quietly, that's the problem.
00:34I'll fight till the end, because I believe that I have a role to fulfil.
00:40And I've got two children to bring up.
01:26I've got two children to bring up.
01:26Marrying into the royal family.
01:28At the age of 19, you always think you're prepared for everything, and you think you have the knowledge of
01:35what's coming ahead.
01:37But although I was daunted at the prospect at the time, I felt I had the support of my husband
01:41-to-be.
01:43What were the expectations that you had for married life?
01:48I think, like any marriage, especially when you've had divorced parents like myself, you'd want to try even harder to
01:55make it work.
01:56And you don't want to fall back into a pattern that you've seen happen in your own family.
02:01I desperately wanted to work.
02:03I desperately love my husband.
02:05And I wanted to share everything together.
02:07And I thought that we were a very good team.
02:12How aware were you of the significance of what had happened to you?
02:16After all, you'd become Princess of Wales, ultimately with a view to becoming Queen.
02:21I wasn't daunted, and I'm not daunted by the responsibilities that that role creates.
02:26It was a challenge.
02:28It is a challenge.
02:30As for becoming Queen, it was never at the forefront of my mind when I married my husband.
02:36It was a long way off, that thought.
02:38The most daunting aspect was the media attention, because my husband and I, we were told when we got engaged
02:45that the media would go quietly, and it didn't.
02:50And then when we were married, they said it would go quietly, and it didn't.
02:54And then it started to focus very much on me.
02:57And I seemed to be on the front of a newspaper every single day, which is an isolating experience.
03:03And the higher the media puts you, place you, is the bigger the drop.
03:08And I was very aware of that.
03:11How did you handle the transition from being Lady Diana Spencer to the most photographed, the most talked-about woman
03:19in the world?
03:20Well, it took a long time to understand why people were so interested in me.
03:25But I assumed it was because my husband had done a lot of wonderful work leading up to our marriage
03:30and our relationship.
03:33But then, during the years, you see yourself as a good product that sits on a shelf and sells well,
03:39and people make a lot of money out of you.
03:43It's been suggested in some newspapers that you were left largely to cope with your new status on your own.
03:52Do you feel that was your experience?
03:53Yes, I do, on reflection.
03:56But then, here was a situation which hadn't ever happened before in history, in the sense that the media were
04:04everywhere.
04:05And here was a fairy story that everybody wanted to work.
04:08And so, it was isolating, but it was also a situation where you couldn't indulge in feeling sorry for yourself.
04:19You had to either sink or swim.
04:22And you had to learn that very fast.
04:25And what did you do?
04:26I swam.
04:27We went to Alice Springs, to Australia.
04:32And we went and did a walkabout.
04:34And I said to my husband, what do I do now?
04:36And he said, go over to the other side and speak to them.
04:39I said, I can't.
04:40I just can't.
04:41He said, well, you've got to do it.
04:42And he went off and did his bit.
04:44And I went off and did my bit.
04:45It practically finished me off there and then.
04:47And I suddenly realised, I went back to my hotel room and realised the impact that, you know, I had
04:52to sort myself out.
04:53We had a six-week tour, four weeks in Australia and two weeks in New Zealand.
04:56And by the end, when we flew back from New Zealand, I was a different person.
05:00I realised the sense of duty, the level of intensity of interest and the demanding role I now found myself
05:07in.
05:09Were you overwhelmed by the pressure from people initially?
05:12Yes, I was very daunted because, as far as I was concerned, I was a fat, chubby 20-year-old,
05:1821-year-old.
05:19And I couldn't understand the level of interest.
05:23At this early stage, would you say that you were happily married?
05:27Very much so.
05:29But the pressure on us both as a couple with the media was phenomenal and misunderstood by a great many
05:36people.
05:37Or we'd be going round Australia, for instance, and all you could hear was, oh, she's on the other side.
05:46Now, if you're a man, or my husband, a proud man, you mind about that.
05:50You hear it every day for four weeks and you feel low about it, you know, instead of feeling happy
05:56and sharing it.
05:57When you say she's on the other side, what do you mean?
05:59Well, they weren't on the right side to wave at me or to touch me.
06:03So they were expressing a preference even then for you rather than your husband?
06:06Yes, which I felt very uncomfortable with and I felt it was unfair because I wanted to share.
06:11But were you flattered by the media attention particularly?
06:14No, not particularly because with the media attention came a lot of jealousy.
06:18A great deal of complicated situations arose because of that.
06:25At this early stage in your marriage, what role did you see for yourself as Princess of Wales?
06:31Did you have an idea of the role that you might like to fulfil?
06:35No, I was very confused by which area I should go into.
06:40Then I found myself being more and more involved with people who were rejected by society.
06:46They were, I'd say, drug addicts, alcoholism, battered this, battered that.
06:52And I found an affinity there.
06:55And I respected very much the honesty I found on that level with people I met.
07:00Because in hospices, for instance, when people are dying, they're much more open and more vulnerable
07:06and much more real than other people.
07:08And I appreciated that.
07:10Had the palace given any thought to the role that you might have as Princess of Wales?
07:15No, no one sat me down with a piece of paper and said, this is what's expected of you.
07:21But there again, I'm lucky enough, the fact that I have found my role.
07:26And I'm very conscious of it.
07:28And I love being with people.
07:30So you very much created the role that you would pursue for yourself, really.
07:35That was what you did.
07:36Yes, I think so.
07:37I remember when I used to sit on hospital beds and hold people's hands,
07:39people used to be sort of shocked because they said they'd never seen this before.
07:43And to me, it was quite a normal thing to do.
07:45And when I saw the reassurance that an action like that gave, I did it everywhere.
07:51And we'll always do that.
07:54It wasn't long after the wedding before you became pregnant.
07:58What was your reaction when you learnt that the child was a boy?
08:02Enormous relief.
08:03I felt the whole country was in labour with me.
08:07And enormous relief.
08:08But I had actually known William was going to be a boy because the scan had shown it.
08:11So it was no surprise.
08:14Had you always wanted to have a family?
08:16Yes, I came from a family where there were four of us.
08:19So we had enormous fun there.
08:23And then William and Harry arrived.
08:25Fortunately, two boys.
08:26It would have been a little tricky.
08:28It would have been two girls.
08:29But that in itself brings responsibilities of bringing them up.
08:34William's future being as it is.
08:35And Harry was sort of like a form of a backup in that aspect.
08:40How did the rest of the royal family react when they learnt that the child that you were to have
08:46was going to be a boy?
08:48Well, everybody was thrilled to bits.
08:50It was being quite a difficult pregnancy.
08:52I hadn't been very well throughout it.
08:54So by the time William arrived, it was great relief because it was all peaceful again.
08:58And I was well for a time.
09:01Then I was unwell with postnatal depression, which no one ever discusses postnatal depression.
09:09You have to read about it afterwards.
09:12And that in itself was a bit of a difficult time.
09:15You'd wake up in the morning feeling you didn't want to get out of bed.
09:19You felt misunderstood.
09:22And you're just very, very low in yourself.
09:25Was this completely out of character for you?
09:27Yes, very much so.
09:29I've never had a depression in my life.
09:32But then when I analysed it, I could see that the changes I'd made in the last year had all
09:37caught up with me.
09:38And my body had said, we want a rest.
09:41So what treatment did you actually receive?
09:44I received a great deal of treatment.
09:47But I knew myself that actually what I needed was space and time to adapt to all the different roles
09:53that had come my way.
09:54I knew I could do it.
09:55But I needed people to be patient and give me the space to do it.
10:00When you say all of the different roles that had come your way, what do you mean?
10:04Well, it was a very short space of time.
10:06In a space of a year, my whole life had changed, turned upside down.
10:10And it had its wonderful moments, but it also had challenging moments.
10:13And I could see where the rough edges needed to be smoothed.
10:19What was the family's reaction to your postnatal depression?
10:23Well, maybe I was the first person ever to be in this family who ever had a depression or was
10:29ever openly tearful.
10:32And obviously that was daunting, because if you've never seen it before, how do you support it?
10:40What effect did the depression have on your marriage?
10:44Well, it gave everybody a wonderful new label.
10:48It's Diana's unstable and Diana's mentally imbalanced.
10:53And unfortunately, that seems to have stuck on and off over the years.
10:57Are you saying that that label stuck within your marriage?
11:01I think people used it and it stuck.
11:05Yes.
11:08According to press reports, it was suggested that it was around this time, things became so difficult that you actually
11:16tried to injure yourself.
11:19Is that true?
11:20When no one listens to you or you feel no one's listening to you, all sorts of things start to
11:25happen.
11:26For instance, you have so much pain inside yourself that you try and hurt yourself on the outside because you
11:31want help.
11:32But it's the wrong help you're asking for.
11:34Or people see it as crying wolf or attention-seeking.
11:37And they think because you're in the media all the time, you've got enough attention, inverted commas.
11:42But I was actually crying out because I wanted to get better in order to go forward and continue my
11:47duty and my role as wife, mother, princess at Wales.
11:51So, yes, I did inflict upon myself.
11:55I didn't like myself.
11:56I was ashamed because I couldn't cope with the pressures.
12:00What did you actually do?
12:01Well, I just hurt my arms and my legs.
12:04And I work in environments now where I see women doing similar things, and I'm able to understand completely where
12:12they're coming from.
12:14What was your husband's reaction to this when you began to injure yourself in this way?
12:21Well, I didn't actually always do it in front of him.
12:25But obviously anyone who loves someone would be very concerned about it.
12:30Did he understand what was behind the physical act of hurting yourself, do you think?
12:35No, but then not many people would have taken the time to see that.
12:43Were you able to admit that you were in fact unwell, or did you feel compelled simply to carry on
12:51performing as the princess of Wales?
12:53I felt compelled to perform.
12:56Well, when I say perform, I was compelled to go out and do my engagements and not let people down
13:00and support them and love them.
13:03And in a way, by being out in public, they supported me, although they weren't aware just how much healing
13:09they were giving me, and it carried me through.
13:13But did you feel that you had to maintain the public image of a successful princess of Wales?
13:21Yes, I did. Yes, I did.
13:24The depression was resolved, as you say, but it was subsequently reported that you suffered bulimia.
13:32Is that true?
13:33Yes, I did. I had bulimia for a number of years.
13:37And that's like a secret disease you inflicted upon yourself because your self-esteem is too low-ebb, and you
13:44don't think you're worthy or valuable.
13:46You fill your stomach up four or five times a day, some do it more, and it gives you a
13:51feeling of comfort.
13:51It's like having a pair of arms around you, but it's temporary.
13:56Then you're disgusted at the bloatedness of your stomach, and then you bring it all up again.
14:02And it's a repetitive pattern, which is very destructive to yourself.
14:08How often would you do that on a daily basis?
14:11Depends on the pressures going on.
14:14If I'd been on what I call an away day, where I'd been up part of the country all day,
14:18I'd come home feeling pretty empty,
14:19because my engagements at that time would be to do with people dying, people very sick, people, marriage is the
14:26problem, all that.
14:27And I'd come home, and it would be very difficult to know how to comfort myself, having been comforted lots
14:32of other people.
14:32So it would be a regular pattern to jump into the fridge.
14:37It was a symptom of what was going on in my marriage.
14:40I was crying out for help, but giving the wrong signals, and people were using my bulimia as a coat
14:49on a hanger.
14:49They decided that was the problem.
14:52Diana was unstable.
14:55Instead of looking behind the symptom at the cause, what was the cause?
15:03The cause was a situation where my husband and I had to keep everything together,
15:07because we didn't want to disappoint the public.
15:11And yet, obviously, there was a lot of anxiety going on within our four walls.
15:15You mean between the two of you?
15:17Mm-hm.
15:19And so you subjected yourself to this phase of binging and vomiting?
15:25You could say the word subjected, but it was my escape mechanism, and it worked for me at that time.
15:33Did you seek help from any other members of the royal family?
15:37No.
15:39You have to know that when you have bulimia, you're very ashamed of yourself, and you hate yourself.
15:45So, um, and people think you're wasting food, so you don't discuss it with people.
15:51And the thing about bulimia is your weight always stays the same, whereas with anorexia, you visibly shrink.
15:55So you can pretend the whole way through.
15:59There's no proof.
16:01When you say people would think you were wasting food, did anybody suggest that to you?
16:06Oh, yes, a number of times.
16:08What was said?
16:09Well, it was just, um, I suppose you were going to waste that food later on.
16:14You know, that was pressure in itself.
16:16And of course I would, because it was my release valve.
16:23How long did this bulimia go on for?
16:26A long time.
16:26A long time.
16:27But I'm free of it now.
16:30Two years?
16:31Three years?
16:31Mm, a little bit more than that.
16:43According to reports in the national press, it was at around this time that you began to experience difficulties in
16:50your marriage and your relationship to the Prince of Wales.
16:52Mm.
16:52Is that true?
16:55Well, we were a newly married couple, so obviously we had those pressures too.
17:00And we had the media who were completely fascinated by everything we did.
17:05And it was difficult to share that load, because I was the one who was always pitched out front, whether
17:12it was my clothes, what I said, what my hair was doing, everything.
17:17It was a pretty dull subject, actually, and it's been exhausted over the years.
17:22When actually what we wanted to be, what we wanted supported was our work, and as a team.
17:28What effect did the press interest in you have on your marriage?
17:34It made it very difficult, because for a situation where there was a couple working in the same job, we
17:42got out the same car, shook the same hand, my husband did the speeches, I did the handshaking.
17:48So basically we were a married couple doing the same job, which was very difficult for anyone, and more so
17:53if you've got all the attention on you.
17:55So we struggled a bit with it, it was very difficult, and then my husband decided that we'd do separate
18:00engagements, which was a bit sad for me, because I quite liked the company.
18:05But there again, I didn't have the choice.
18:08So it wasn't at your request that you did that on your own?
18:11Not at all, no.
18:16The biography of The Prince of Wales, written by Jonathan Dimbleby, which, as you know, was published last year, suggested
18:22that you and your husband had very different outlooks, very different interests.
18:28Would you agree with that?
18:29No.
18:30I think we had a great deal of interest.
18:32We both liked people, both liked country life, both loved children, work in the cancer field, work in hospices, but
18:43I was portrayed in the media at that time, if I remember rightly, that someone, because I hadn't passed any
18:48O-levels and taken any A-levels, I was stupid.
18:51And I made the grave mistake once of saying to a child I was thick as a plank, in order
18:55to ease the child's nervousness, of which it did.
18:58But that headline went all around the world, and I rather regret saying it.
19:05The Prince of Wales, in the biography, is described as a great thinker, a man with a tremendous range of
19:12interests.
19:14What did he think of your interests?
19:17Well, I don't think I was allowed to have any. I think that I've always been the 18-year-old
19:22girl he got engaged to, so I don't think I've been given any credit for growth.
19:29And, my goodness, I've had to grow.
19:33Explain what you mean when you say that.
19:34Well, er...
19:36When you say you were never given any credit, what do you mean?
19:43Well, anything good I ever did. Nobody ever said a thing. Never said, well done, or was it okay? But
19:50if I tripped up, which invariably I did, because I was new at the game, a tonne of bricks came
19:55down on me.
19:58How did you cope with that?
20:00Well, obviously there were lots of tears, and one could dive into the bulimia and to escape.
20:07Some people would find that difficult to believe, that you were left so much to cope on your own, and
20:13that the description you give suggests that your relationship with your husband was not very good, even at that early
20:21stage.
20:22Well, we had unique pressures put upon us, and we both tried our hardest to cover them up, but obviously
20:30it wasn't to be.
20:33Around 1986, again, according to the biography written by Jonathan Dimbleby about your husband, he says that your husband renewed
20:42his relationship with Mrs. Camilla Parker Bowles.
20:46Were you aware of that?
20:48Yes, I was. But I wasn't in a position to do anything about it.
20:53What evidence did you have that their relationship was continuing, even though you were married?
20:59A woman's instinct is a very good one.
21:03Is that all?
21:06Well, obviously I had knowledge of it.
21:09From staff?
21:11Well, from people who minded and cared about our marriage, yes.
21:16What effect did that have on you?
21:19Pretty devastating.
21:21Rampant bulimia, if you can have rampant bulimia, and just a feeling of being no good at anything, and being
21:27useless and hopeless and failed in every direction.
21:30Wow.
21:32And with a husband who was having a relationship with somebody else?
21:36Was a husband who loved someone else, yes.
21:41You really thought that?
21:43Mm-hmm.
21:43I didn't think that, I knew it.
21:46How did you know it?
21:52By the change of behavioural pattern in my husband, for all sorts of reasons that a woman's instinct produces.
21:59You just know.
22:01It was already difficult, but it became increasingly difficult.
22:05In a practical sense, how did it become difficult?
22:08Well, people were, when I say people, I mean friends of my husband's side were indicating that I was, again,
22:17unstable, sick, and should be put in a home of some sort in order to get better.
22:24I was almost an embarrassment.
22:28Do you think he really thought that?
22:33Well, there's no better way to dismantle a personality than to isolate it.
22:40So you were isolated?
22:42Mm-hmm.
22:42Very much so.
22:45Do you think Mrs Parker Bowles was a factor in the breakdown of your marriage?
22:50Well, there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.
23:13You're effectively living separate lives, yet in public there's this appearance of this happily married royal couple.
23:21How was this regarded by the royal family?
23:25I think everybody was very anxious, because they could see there were complications, but didn't want to interfere, but were
23:33there, made it known that they were there, if required.
23:38Do you think it was accepted that one could live effectively two lives, one in private and one in public?
23:45No, because, again, the media was very interested about our set-up, inverted commas.
23:51When we went abroad, we had separate apartments, albeit we were on the same floor, so of course that was
23:56leaked, and that caused complications.
24:00But Charles and I had our duty to perform, and that was paramount.
24:06So, in a sense, you coped with these two lives because of your duty?
24:12Mm-hmm, and we were a very good team in public, albeit what was going on in private, we were
24:16a good, good team.
24:17Some people would find that difficult to reconcile.
24:20Mm-hmm, well, that's their problem. I know what it felt like.
24:26The Queen described 1992 as her Annus Horribilis, and it was in that year that Andrew Morton's book about you
24:34was published.
24:35Mm-hmm.
24:36Did you ever meet Andrew Morton or personally help him with the book?
24:40I never met him, no.
24:44Did you ever personally assist him with the writing of his book?
24:48A lot of people saw the distress that my life was in, and they felt it was a supportive thing
24:56to help in the way that they did.
24:59Did you allow your friends, your close friends, to speak to Andrew Morton?
25:03Yes, I did.
25:05Why?
25:05Yes, I did.
25:06I was, at the end of my tether, I was desperate.
25:11I think I was so fed up of being seen as someone who was a basket case, because I am
25:16a very strong person, and I know that causes complications in the system that I live in.
25:25How would a book change that?
25:28I don't know. Maybe people have a better understanding.
25:30Maybe there's a lot of women out there who suffer on the same level, but in a different environment, who
25:36are unable to stand up for themselves, because their self-esteem is cut into two. I don't know.
25:45What effect do you think the book had on your husband and the royal family?
25:50I think they were shocked and horrified and very disappointed.
25:56Can you understand why?
25:59Well, I think Mr. Dimbleby's book was a shock to a lot of people and disappointment as well.
26:08What effect did Andrew Morton's book have on your relationship with the Prince of Wales?
26:17Well, what had been hidden, or rather what we thought had been hidden, then became out in the open and
26:25was spoken about on a daily basis.
26:26And the pressure was for us to sort ourselves out in some way.
26:30Were we going to stay together or were we going to separate?
26:33And the words separation and divorce kept coming up in the media on a daily basis.
26:38What happened after the book was published?
26:43Well, we struggled along, we did our engagements together, and in our private life it was obviously turbulent.
26:51Did things come to a head?
26:53Yes, it was slowly, yes.
26:55My husband and I, we discussed it very calmly.
26:58We could see what the public were requiring.
27:01They wanted clarity of a situation that was obviously becoming intolerable.
27:06So what happened?
27:08So we got the lawyers together, we discussed separation.
27:14Obviously there were a lot of people to discuss it with, Prime Minister and Majesty.
27:19And then it moved itself, so to speak.
27:24By the December of that year, as you say, you'd agreed to a legal separation.
27:30What were your feelings at the time?
27:32Deep, deep, profound sadness.
27:34We had struggled to keep it going, but obviously we'd both run out of steam.
27:40And in a way, I suppose it could have been a relief for us both that we'd finally made our
27:45minds up.
27:46But my husband asked for separation, and I supported it.
27:50It was not your idea?
27:52No.
27:53Not at all.
27:54I come from a divorced background, and I didn't want to go into that one again.
28:02What happened next?
28:08I asked my husband if we could put the announcement out before the children came back for Christmas holidays,
28:13because they were protected in the school they were at.
28:16And he did that.
28:17And it came out on December the 9th.
28:19I was on an engagement up north.
28:21I heard it on the radio.
28:23And it was just very, very sad.
28:24Really sad.
28:26A fairy tale had come to an end.
28:27And most importantly, our marriage had taken a turn.
28:31A different turn.
28:34Did you tell your children that you were going to separate?
28:37Yes.
28:37I went down a week beforehand and explained to them what was happening.
28:42And they took it, as children do, lots of questions.
28:46And I hoped I was able to reassure them.
28:49But who knows?
28:52What effect do you think the announcement had on them?
28:56I think the announcement had a huge effect on me and my child, really.
29:01And the children were very much out of it, in the sense that they were tucked away at school.
29:09Once the separation had occurred, we move into 1993, what happened during that period?
29:19People's agendas changed overnight.
29:21I was now separated.
29:23Wife, the Prince of Wales.
29:24I was a problem.
29:26I was a liability, seen as.
29:29And how were we going to deal with her?
29:32This hasn't happened before.
29:34Who was asking those questions?
29:36People around me, people in this environment.
29:39The royal household?
29:41People in my environment, yes.
29:44They began to see you as a problem?
29:46Yes, very much so.
29:48How did that show itself?
29:51By visits abroad being blocked, by things that had come naturally in my way being stopped, letters going, got lost,
30:02and various things.
30:05So despite the fact that your interest was always to continue with your duties, you found that your duties were
30:11being held from you?
30:12Yes.
30:12Everything changed after we separated, and life became very difficult then for me.
30:19Who was behind that change?
30:24Well, my husband's side were very busy stopping me.
30:49What was your reaction when news broke of allegedly a telephone conversation between you and Mr. James Gilbey having been
30:58recorded?
30:58I felt very protective about James because he'd been a very good friend to me and was a very good
31:04friend to me, and I couldn't bear that his life was going to be messed up because he had the
31:09connection with me, and that worried me.
31:12Yeah, I'm very protective about my friends.
31:15Did you have the alleged telephone conversation?
31:19Yes, we did.
31:19Absolutely we did.
31:21Yeah, we did.
31:22On that tape, Mr. Gilbey expresses his affection for you.
31:27Was that transcript accurate?
31:30Yes.
31:31I mean, he is a very affectionate person.
31:33But the implications of that conversation were that we'd had an adulterous relationship, which was not true.
31:43Have you any idea how that conversation came to be published in the national press?
31:48No, but it was done to harm me in a serious manner, and that was the first time I'd experienced
31:55what it was like to be outside the net, so to speak, and not be in the family.
32:02What do you think the purpose was behind it?
32:06It was to make the public change their attitude towards me.
32:11It was, you know, if we are going to divorce, my husband would hold more cards than I would.
32:17It was very much a poker game, chess game.
32:25There were also a series of telephone calls which allegedly were made by you to a Mr. Oliver Hoare.
32:32Did you make what were described as nuisance phone calls?
32:35I was reputed to have made 300 telephone calls in a very short space of time, which, bearing my lifestyle
32:41at that time, made me a very busy lady.
32:44No, I didn't.
32:45I didn't.
32:46But that, again, was a huge move to discredit me, and very nearly did me in the injustice of it.
32:54Because I did my own homework on that subject, and consequently found out that a young boy had done most
33:01of them, but I read that I had done them all.
33:04Mr. Hoare told me that his lines were being tapped by the local police station.
33:09He said, you know, don't ring.
33:11So I didn't, but some way he clearly did.
33:16Had you made any of those calls at all?
33:18I used to, yes, I had rung up, yes.
33:21Once, twice, three times?
33:23I don't know, over a period of six to nine months.
33:26A few times.
33:28But certainly not an obsessive manner, no.
33:32Do you really believe that a campaign was being waged against you?
33:35Yes, I did, absolutely.
33:36How?
33:38Why?
33:38I was a separated wife to the Prince of Wales.
33:41I was a problem, full stop.
33:42Never happened before.
33:43What do we do with her?
33:45Can't we pack her off to somewhere quietly, rather than campaign against her?
33:49She won't go quietly.
33:51That's the problem.
33:51I'll fight till the end, because I believe that I have a role to fulfil, and I've got two children
33:58to bring up.
34:01By the end of 1993, you had suffered persistent difficulties with the press.
34:10These phone conversations were made public, and you decided to withdraw from public life.
34:15Yeah.
34:15Why did you do that?
34:17The pressure was intolerable then, and my job was, my work was being affected.
34:21I wanted to give 110% to my work, and I could only give 50%.
34:25I was constantly tired, exhausted, because the pressure was just, it was so cruel.
34:31So I thought the only way to do it was to stand up and make a speech and extract myself
34:36before I started disappointing and not carrying out my work.
34:41It was my decision to make that speech, because I owed it to the public to say that, you know,
34:47thank you, I'm disappearing for a bit, but I'll come back.
34:51It wasn't very long before you did come back, of course.
34:54Well, I don't know.
34:55I mean, I did a lot of work, what I call underground, without any media attention, so I never really
35:00stopped doing it.
35:01I just didn't do it every day, out and about.
35:04I just couldn't do it.
35:07You know, the campaign was, in that point, was being successful, but it did surprise the people who were causing
35:15the grief.
35:16It did surprise them when I took myself out of the game.
35:18They hadn't expected that.
35:20And I'm a great believer that you should always confuse the enemy.
35:24Who was the enemy?
35:28Well, the enemy was my husband's department, because I always got more publicity.
35:36My work was discussed much more than him, and, you know, from that point of view, I understand it.
35:42But I was doing good things, and I wanted to do good things.
35:45I was never going to hurt anyone.
35:47I was never going to let anyone down.
35:50But you really believe that it was out of jealousy, that they wanted to undermine you?
35:56I think it was out of fear, because here was a strong woman doing her bit.
36:00And where was she getting her strength from?
36:02To continue.
36:06What was your reaction to your husband's disclosure to Jonathan Dimbleby, that he had, in fact, committed adultery?
36:13Well, I was totally unaware of the content of the book,
36:17and actually saw it on the news that night that it would come out.
36:21And my first concern was to the children,
36:23because they were able to understand what was coming out.
36:27And I wanted to protect them.
36:29But I was pretty devastated myself.
36:32But then I admired the honesty, because it takes a lot to do that.
36:36In what sense?
36:38Well, to be honest about a relationship with someone else in his position is quite something.
36:47How did you handle this with the children?
36:51I went to the school and put it to William, particularly,
36:57that if you find someone you love in life, you must hang on to it and look after it.
37:01And you were very lucky to find someone, if you were lucky enough to find someone who loved you,
37:05then one must protect it.
37:08William asked me what had been going on, and could I answer his questions, of which I did.
37:14He said, was that the reason why our marriage had broken up?
37:18And I said, well, there were three of us in this marriage, and the pressure of the media was another
37:21factor.
37:22So the two together were very difficult.
37:25But although I still loved Papa, I couldn't live under the same roof as him, and likewise with him.
37:31What effect do you think it had on Prince William?
37:35Well, he's a child that's a deep thinker, and we won't know for a few years how it's gone in.
37:42But I put it in gently, without resentment or any anger.
37:49Looking back now, do you feel at all responsible for the difficulties in your marriage?
37:57I take full responsibility.
37:59I take some responsibility that our marriage went the way it did.
38:04I'll take half of it, but I won't take any more than that, because it takes two to get in
38:08this situation.
38:10But you do bear some of the responsibility?
38:12Absolutely. We both made mistakes.
38:18Another book that was published recently concerned a Mr James Hewitt,
38:23in which he claimed to have had a very close relationship with you from about 1989, I think.
38:30What was the nature of your relationship?
38:33He was a great friend of mine at a very difficult time, yet another difficult time,
38:38and he was always there to support me.
38:41And I was absolutely devastated when this book appeared, because I trusted him.
38:47And because, again, I worried about the reaction on my children.
38:52And yes, there was factual evidence in the book, but a lot of it comes from another world.
38:58It didn't equate to what happened.
39:00What do you mean?
39:02Well, there was a lot of fantasy in that book, and it was very distressing for me that a friend
39:08of mine, who I had trusted, made money out of me.
39:10I really minded about that.
39:12And he'd rung me up ten days before it arrived in the bookshops to tell me that there was nothing
39:18to worry about.
39:20And I believed him stupidly.
39:22And then when it did arrive, the first thing I did was rush down to talk to my children.
39:30And William produced a box of chocolates and said,
39:33Mummy, I think you've been hurt.
39:34These are to make you smile again.
39:37So...
39:39Did your relationship go beyond a close friendship?
39:43Yes, it did.
39:45Yes.
39:46Were you unfaithful?
39:48Yes, I adored him.
39:49Yes, I was in love with him.
39:52But I was very let down.
40:07How would you describe your life now?
40:10You do live very much on your own, don't you?
40:12Yes, I am.
40:13I don't mind that, actually.
40:15You know, people think that at the end of the day, a man is the only answer, actually,
40:19a fulfilling job is better for me.
40:24What do you mean by that?
40:25Well, I mean, any gentleman that's been past my door, we've instantly been put together in the media and all
40:33hell's broken loose.
40:34So that's been very tough on the male friends I've had and obviously from my point of view.
40:38Does that mean that you feel that for the rest of your life you'll have to be on your own?
40:44No, I'm not really on my own.
40:47I've got wonderful friends, I've got my boys, I've got my work.
40:51It's just, by living at Kensington Palace, obviously it is a little bit isolating, but, you know, maybe we all
40:56feel like that.
40:58How do you feel about the way the press behaves towards you now?
41:02Well, I still to this day find the interest daunting and phenomenal, because I actually don't like being the centre
41:11of attention.
41:12When I have my public duties, I understand that when I get out of the car, I'm being photographed.
41:18But actually, it's now when I go out of my door, my front door, I'm being photographed.
41:22I never know where a lens is going to be.
41:24A normal day would be followed by four cars.
41:28A normal day would come back to my car and find six freelance photographers jumping around me.
41:33Some people would say, well, if you had a policeman, it'd make it easier.
41:36It doesn't at all.
41:38They've decided that I'm still a project after 15, 16 years that sells well, and they all shout at me,
41:44telling me that.
41:45Oh, come on, die, look up.
41:46If you give us a picture, I can get my children to a better school.
41:50And, you know, you can laugh it off, but you get that the whole time.
41:53It's quite difficult.
41:56Some people would say that in the early years of your marriage, you were partly responsible for encouraging the press
42:02interest.
42:03You danced with people like Wayne Sleep.
42:05You seemed to enjoy it.
42:06You had a very good and warm relationship.
42:08Do you feel any responsibility for the way the press have behaved towards you?
42:15I never encouraged the media.
42:18There was a relationship which worked before, but now I can't tolerate it because it's become abusive.
42:25And it's harassment.
42:27But I don't want to be seen to indulging in self-pity.
42:30I'm not.
42:30I understand they have a job to do.
42:32You could equate it to a soap opera, really.
42:35It goes on and on and on, and the story never changes.
42:38And each time one enjoys oneself, albeit it's in a different situation, you have to pay for it because people
42:44criticise, which comes with the patch, as I said previously.
42:49But I am a free spirit, unfortunately for some.
42:56But here at Kensington Palace, are you isolated?
43:00Well, I am by the nature of my situation, yes.
43:03But I don't feel sorry for myself in any way.
43:06I've got my work that I choose to do, and I've got my boys, and I've got lots of opportunities
43:14coming up in the next year, visits abroad.
43:16I'm about to go to Argentina, which I'm very happy with, and hope very much to continue the good relationship
43:22that's now been adapted between the two countries.
43:25I hope I can be of help there.
43:28What role do you see for yourself in the future?
43:31I'd like to be an ambassador for this country.
43:33I'd like to represent this country abroad.
43:36As I have all this media interest, let's not just sit in this country and be battered by it.
43:41Let's take them, these people, out to represent this country and the good qualities of it abroad.
43:48When I go abroad, we've got 60 to 90 photographers just from this country coming with me.
43:54So let's use it in a productive way to help this country.
44:00You say you feel that your future is as some form of ambassador.
44:05At whose behest is that?
44:08On what grounds do you feel that you have the right to think of yourself as an ambassador?
44:13I've been in a privileged position for 15 years, and I've got tremendous knowledge about people and how to communicate.
44:20I've learned that, I've got it, and I want to use it.
44:25And when I look at people in public life...
44:30I'm not a political animal, but I think the biggest disease this world suffers from in this day and age
44:38is the disease of people feeling unloved.
44:40And I know that I can give love for a minute, for half an hour, for a day, for a
44:46month, but I can give, and I'm very happy to do that, and I want to do that.
44:50Do you think that the British people are happy with you in your role?
44:54I think the British people need someone in public life to give affection, to make them feel important, to support
45:02them, to give them light in their dark tunnels.
45:05I see it as a possibly unique role, and yes, I've had difficulties, as everybody has witnessed over the years,
45:16but let's now use the knowledge I've gathered to help other people in distress.
45:21Do you think you can?
45:22I know I can. I know I can, yeah.
45:27Up until you came into this family, the monarchy seemed to enjoy an unquestioned position at the heart of British
45:34life.
45:35Do you feel that you're at all to blame for the fact that the survival of the monarchy is now
45:40a question that people are asking?
45:42No, I don't feel blame.
45:44I mean, once or twice, I've heard people say to me that, you know, Diana's out to destroy the monarchy,
45:50which has bewildered me, because why would I want to destroy something that is my children's future?
45:57I will fight for my children on any level in order for them to be happy and have peace of
46:02mind and carry out their duties.
46:04But I think what concerns me most of all about how people discuss the monarchy is they become indifferent, and
46:10I think that is a problem, and I think that should be sorted out, yes.
46:15When you say indifferent, what do you mean?
46:18They don't care. People don't care anymore. They've been so force-fed with marital problems, whatever, whatever, whatever. They're fed
46:26up.
46:27I'm fed up of reading about it. I'm in it. So God knows what people out there must think.
46:33Do you think the monarchy needs to adapt and to change in order to survive?
46:40I understand that change is frightening for people, especially if there's nothing to go to. It's best to stay where
46:49you are. I understand that.
46:50But I do think that there are a few things that could change that would alleviate this doubt and sometimes
47:00complicated relationship between monarchy and public.
47:04I think they could walk hand in hand, as opposed to be so distant.
47:10What are you doing to try and affect some kind of change?
47:14Well, with William and Harry, for instance, I take them around homelessness projects.
47:20I've taken William and Harry to people dying of AIDS, albeit I told them it was cancer.
47:26I've taken the children to all sorts of areas where I'm not sure anyone of that age in this family
47:33has been before.
47:35And they have a knowledge. They may never use it, but the seed is there, and I hope it will
47:41grow, because knowledge is power.
47:44What are you hoping that that experience for your children, what impact that experience will have on your children?
47:50I want them to have an understanding of people's emotions, people's insecurities, people's distress, and people's hopes and dreams.
48:00What kind of monarchy do you anticipate?
48:07I would like a monarchy that has more contact with its people.
48:12And I don't mean by riding around bicycles and things like that, but just having a more in-depth understanding.
48:18And I don't say that as a criticism to the present monarchy.
48:22I just say that as what I see and hear and feel on a daily basis in the role I've
48:28chosen for myself.
48:31There's a lot of discussion at the moment about how matters between yourself and the Prince of Wales will be
48:38resolved.
48:39There's even the suggestion of a divorce between you.
48:43What are your thoughts about that?
48:46I don't want a divorce.
48:48But, obviously, we need clarity on a situation that has been of enormous discussion over the last three years in
48:57particular.
48:58So all I say to that is that I await my husband's decision of which way we are all going
49:05to go.
49:07If he wished a divorce to go through, would you accept that?
49:11I would obviously discuss it with him.
49:14But up to date, neither of us have discussed this subject, though the rest of the world seems to have.
49:20Would it be your wish to divorce?
49:22No, it's not my wish.
49:23Why?
49:25Wouldn't that resolve matters?
49:26Why would it resolve matters?
49:29It would provide the clarity that you talk about?
49:31It would resolve matters as far as the public are concerned, perhaps?
49:35Yes, but what about the children?
49:37Our boys.
49:38That's what matters, isn't it?
49:45Do you think you'll ever be Queen?
49:51No, I don't.
49:52No.
49:53Why do you think that?
49:56I'd like to be a queen of people's hearts, in people's hearts, but I don't see myself being queen of
50:03this country.
50:05I don't think many people would want me to be queen.
50:07Actually, when I say many people, I mean the establishment that I'm married into, because they've decided that I'm a
50:15non-starter.
50:17Why do you think they've decided that?
50:21Because I do things differently, because I don't go by a rule book, because I lead from the heart, not
50:27the head.
50:28And albeit that's got me into trouble in my work, I understand that.
50:32But someone's got to go out there and love people and show it.
50:36And do you think that because of the way you behave, that's precluded you effectively from becoming queen?
50:42Yes, well, not precluded me, I wouldn't say that.
50:46I just don't think I have as many supporters in that environment than I did.
50:51You mean within the royal household?
50:53Mm-hmm.
50:55They see me as a threat of some kind.
50:59And I'm here to do good.
51:01I'm not a destructive person.
51:03Why do they see you as a threat?
51:06I think every strong woman in history has had to walk down a similar path.
51:10And I think it's the strength that causes the confusion and the fear.
51:15Why is she strong?
51:17Where does she get it from?
51:18Where is she taking it?
51:19Where is she going to use it?
51:21Why do the public still support her?
51:24When I say public, you're going and doing engagement, and there's a great many people there.
51:31Do you think the Prince of Wales will ever be king?
51:35I don't think any of us know the answer to that.
51:39And obviously it's a question that's in everybody's head.
51:43But who knows?
51:44Who knows what fate will produce?
51:46Who knows what circumstances will provoke?
51:49But you would know him better than most people.
51:53Mm-hmm.
51:53Do you think he would wish to be king?
51:57There was always conflict on that subject with him when we discussed it.
52:02And I understood that conflict, because it's a very demanding role, being Prince of Wales.
52:07But it's equally a more demanding role, being king.
52:11And being Prince of Wales produces more freedom now, and being king would be a little bit more suffocating.
52:16And because I know the character, I would think that the top job, as I call it, would bring enormous
52:23limitations to him.
52:25And I don't know whether he could adapt to that.
52:29Do you think it would make more sense, in the light of the marital difficulties that you and the Prince
52:35of Wales have had,
52:37if the position of monarch passed directly to your son, Prince William?
52:44Well, then, you have to see that William's very young at the moment,
52:47so do you want a burden like that to be put on his shoulders at such an age?
52:52So I can't answer that question.
52:56Would it be your wish that when Prince William comes of age,
53:01that he were to succeed the Queen rather than the current Prince of Wales?
53:05My wish is that my husband finds peace of mind, and from that follows other things, yes.
53:14Why have you decided to give this interview now?
53:17Why have you decided to speak at this time?
53:22Because we will have been separated three years this December,
53:25and the perception that has been given of me for the last three years has been very confusing, turbulent,
53:34and in some areas, I'm sure many, many people doubt me.
53:39And I want to reassure all those people who have loved me and supported me throughout the last 15 years,
53:46so I'd never let them down.
53:47And that is a priority to me, along with my children.
53:52And so you feel that by speaking out in this way, you'll be able to reassure the people?
53:58Mm-hm. The people that matter to me, the man on the street.
54:01Yeah.
54:02Because that's what matters more than anything else.
54:06Some people might think...
54:08Some people might interpret this
54:10as you simply taking the opportunity to get your own back on your husband.
54:15I don't sit here with resentment.
54:17I sit here with sadness because a marriage hasn't worked.
54:20I sit here with hope because there's a future ahead.
54:23A future for my husband, a future for myself,
54:26and a future for the monarchy.
54:29Your Royal Highness, thank you.
54:44You're welcome.