- 2 days ago
Charli XCX and her producer Finn Keane take us Behind the Song "Camera" and discuss how appearing in The Moment reignited Charli's inspiration to make new music.
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00:00This is quite a confessional and in some ways embarrassing, well, for Brits, I think at least.
00:07You know, talking about your dreams and your ambitions is inherently embarrassing for a British person.
00:11Maybe not so much for an American, I don't know.
00:21All of my albums are kind of in communication with each other, even if they're sort of repelling each other.
00:28As an artist, I think, you know, some artists spend years and years sort of like honing their sound and
00:34really digging deeper and deeper and deeper into it.
00:36And I've definitely done that at points in my past.
00:40But over the past five years or so, I'd say I'm definitely more interested in being a bit more reactive
00:49to the sounds of previous records that I've made.
00:53And then also just like playing shows, DJing, throwing parties.
00:58It was like very constantly like within that world.
01:01I felt that I needed to sort of do something drastic to feel inspired personally again.
01:09Well, you had a song, didn't you?
01:10I think that's the thing.
01:11It was like, it wasn't like, oh, now I'm going to make guitar music.
01:13You had a song that was a guitar song.
01:15Right.
01:15And that I think didn't make the album.
01:17Oh, yeah.
01:17Yeah, of course.
01:18That's what I mean.
01:19And then you're like, oh, this is quite cool as a song.
01:22It wasn't even really talking about the production.
01:24I think it was just, I like this song.
01:25Yeah.
01:25And then I think we were just fleshing out that idea, not talking about it too much.
01:30Yeah.
01:31And then it just became like, oh, this is inspiring to us.
01:34Like, I think we all in ways do have some kind of a history with certain types of guitar music,
01:44even though I think to some people, maybe it feels like extremely alien.
01:48I think for us, it's like, it's just another tool, really.
01:51It's not actually that, like, provocative to us.
01:53Like, oh, my God, we're using a guitar.
01:56It's like, not like, I don't personally see it like that.
01:59It's just like, oh, that's just another tool that we can use in the way that only we would use
02:04it.
02:11In my mind, the song is about doing something that feels uncomfortable, that actually is quite jarring and awkward in
02:18one way, but makes you feel something.
02:20Every sort of part of the production, I think, is sort of trying to emphasize that feeling.
02:24You know, even if you take the initial stuttering guitar, it's like, there's something quite anxious in that, but then
02:28also something quite propulsive about it.
02:30This is actually what I played initially, which is just this.
02:41And that was one snippet.
02:46And that's two different guitars, two simple guitars, just like going straight into the Boss Super Drive.
02:52And I think that's the second one.
02:54And the first one, I think it's just a DI into the Apollo.
02:56So, like, incredibly simple.
02:58And then chopped it up into individual sections.
03:01And if I take off the Shaper Box, you'll see sort of like.
03:07Being drawn also to those moments when I'm not quite hitting it and finding a weird point where you get
03:12a strange attack or some kind of strange artifact that's in there.
03:16And then, like, leaning into that.
03:18And then the final process was just this putting on this Shaper Box, which then kind of adds this weird
03:23time and panning sequencing thing.
03:54So then you get there.
03:55I think this song did kind of come together in quite a free-flowing type of way.
04:02I don't think I sat for a long time laboring over lyrics.
04:07It was kind of quite a sort of flow state, kind of a song, which I think is cool because
04:15this is quite a confessional and in some ways embarrassing.
04:20Well, for Brits, I think, at least, you know, talking about your dreams and your ambitions is inherently embarrassing for
04:26a British person.
04:26Maybe not so much for an American.
04:28I don't know.
04:28You know, it's like there is this element of, like, putting yourself out there and saying the thing that is,
04:35like, coming into your mind.
04:36And I think that is really captured in the lyrics and emphasised by the fact that there isn't really, like,
04:42a clear rhyme pattern.
04:45When you went to record the idea first, I think you just did the whole thing in one take.
04:49Yeah.
04:49Because it was a really very emotional moment to hear it because I hadn't heard it before.
04:53You know, I've got this idea.
04:54And it was all there, the whole song.
04:56And it was actually, I think we only did, like, you know, six takes or something.
05:00And it was, they're all complete performances.
05:02And that's something that we carried through the whole album as well, is, like, preserving these performances that you do.
05:06This is a moment where we wanted this to feel like, because obviously it reflects the lyrics so well.
05:14Like, there's that sort of, like, dramatic step up.
05:22And actually, this was something that Alex had when we were mixing it.
05:24He had this idea to, like, suddenly make the vocal really, really wide at that point.
05:28And you wouldn't have it.
05:29It's, like, halfway through a word, I think.
05:31So, look, if you hear the vocal here, this is just Charlie, direct.
05:40And then suddenly there's this extra layer that's, like, much sort of weirder and, like, morphing a bit more and
05:47more chorused and panned.
05:49And, sorry, stereo.
05:50So, and then also just preserving, like, quite a jump up in volume as well.
05:55I think we even did that with the automation on the drums.
05:56You'll see here, like, we just allow the drums to just, like, jump up in automation here, up six, then
06:02up nine again for, sorry, up another one there.
06:04So, it's, like, just, like, trying to create these extreme volume shifts, I think, is the key thing.
06:17Suddenly the drums feel, like, a little bit too loud.
06:19You know, it's, like, quite a strange way of mixing that.
06:21But, yeah, then the final thing is just, um, at the end of the chorus there.
06:29Like, yeah, keeping in that glitch and keeping in this weird lead static that we have that we quite liked
06:34and actually having the track come out so brutally to affect that lyric.
06:37So, by itself, I think it's just, like, quite cute on its own.
06:44And then the final thing I'd also just draw attention to, I think, in terms of, like, that feeling of,
06:49like, being quite exposed and, like, vulnerable is just how we just drop everything down right at the end to
06:55just the bass and Charlie's vocal, which is also, like, really heavily and quite awkwardly gated.
07:00Yeah, I love the gait on this.
07:10Like, the way the gait is cutting in and, like, cutting out the breaths in a slightly strange way or,
07:14like, cutting off the end of a word or the beginning of a word in an unpredictable, chaotic way, that
07:19I think really works really well there.
07:22I can be anything I want to be and I can feel the things I don't normally feel.
07:28At the beginning, though, I feel you can really hear when there's, like, a breath.
07:34Yeah, yeah.
07:35I can be anything I want to be and I can feel the hands.
07:39Like, it's, like, very staccato in a way.
07:42The hands slower than it should be and, like...
07:44I can feel the things I don't normally.
07:46It's subtle.
07:46In the choruses, I think, we, like, have my kind of tuned vocals lead and then we have...
07:57And then we have these very, kind of,
07:58more natural vocals.
08:01With no tune.
08:02With no tune.
08:03Exactly.
08:03So we did these two left-right doubles and this has no tune on it at all.
08:08And we allowed it just to sort of feel weird and drifting.
08:10Very lazy, you know, paired with the kind of anchoring tuned.
08:19And then, obviously, that sounds very different from how exposed the end vocal is, where it's just, like...
08:28You know?
08:29But imagine if that, like, usually you'd have all these breaths in there and stuff.
08:33You could hear the breathing and all that stuff.
08:35And I think just cutting all of that out gives it a kind of strange, uncanny quality or something.
08:40Yeah.
08:41Something quite puts you on edge a bit.
08:42It's like someone's crying or something, you know?
08:44Yeah.
08:45When they can't, like, catch their breath.
08:47It's like, that's what it reminds me.
08:49Totally.
08:49We'd filmed the moment because we were shooting that at the beginning of 2025.
08:54And, like, I'd had this really amazing experience of working on that film.
08:58Where, as a cast and crew, we were all, like, super, super bonded.
09:03Aidan Zamiri, who's one of my best friends, was the director.
09:06We'd all sort of, like, fallen in love with each other in this way.
09:09And it was the longest time I'd been on set on a film and had felt this new level of
09:16feeling inspired.
09:17Which, to be honest, I don't get as much in music anymore.
09:22Probably because I've been doing it for, you know, so long now.
09:26Like, over 20 years.
09:27Apart from when I work with Finn, of course.
09:29Like, you know.
09:30No, but actually, seriously though, like, when I'm working with Finn and Alex in the studio,
09:34when I'm in the studio, generally speaking, I will say, like, I do feel that feeling.
09:38But there are other elements of being a musician now that I find less thrilling, let's say.
09:47But I think because, you know, acting is kind of a newer thing for me and being a part of
09:55making films,
09:57whether that be in front of the camera or behind the scenes, is, like, a newer thing for me.
10:00I do feel this buzz.
10:02And so I think, yeah, I had felt that on the moment and I wanted to kind of, like, capture
10:06that in a song.
10:07You know, there's this moment which is super sort of vulnerable and, like, kind of sparse.
10:13And then having these, like, prettier elements with it.
10:16I'm embarrassed even if I suck.
10:18Those kind of extreme contrasts, like, for example, we have this kind of cute, quite sweet guitar riff sound.
10:26And then combined with this higher one, that's like, we sound shifted things up and down a lot to kind
10:32of create this grainier texture to it.
10:34So if you hear this, this is shifted up very, like, artificially.
10:43But there's, it's kind of sounds like a synth is actually a guitar and feels quite fake in one way,
10:49but has a kind of nice graininess to it.
10:51When we were writing, we did a lot of the drums just on very, very basic sort of 606 kits.
10:56Yeah.
10:57So we'd almost write to this, you know, we'd just, we'd just be writing to this.
11:02Like, really, really small drums, not even, like, worrying about how the drums sound yet, because the most important thing
11:08is just writing the song at that point.
11:09There's definitely, like, versions of all of these songs, especially songs like this, or maybe, like, Wink Wink, where, I
11:21don't know,
11:22there's this, like, shinier, more perfect production that is, like, very crafted, like a little more electronic.
11:31Even, like, for example, on rock music, when we had, we initially, we didn't have the live drums.
11:38Right.
11:38It was, like, doing a slightly different thing, which was maybe a bit more sort of, I don't know, like,
11:47immediately understandable or something like that.
11:49And I feel like there's probably versions of, like, this song where it's, like, way more.
11:57Definitely.
11:58100%.
11:58We could have definitely made this a lot slicker.
12:00Like, 2015'd out.
12:00We could have made the sound way slicker and, like, way neater and, like, better played and better mixed and
12:06all those things.
12:07And they really craft it.
12:07Yeah, but, like, then it's not the, then it's just to be the idea, like, the feeling of it.
12:11No, no, no, totally.
12:12It's just funny to think of it.
12:13I'm like, oh, like, that, what is that version?
12:16Like, it's, it's probably good.
12:18It's different.
12:19It's not the same thing, but it's just interesting.
12:30I'm like, it's just interesting.