- 2 days ago
In this week’s show we look at what it means to be ‘Coloured’ in South Africa. We explore the history, culture and evolving meaning of a complex identity.
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00:05i'm sure most of you remember this but do you remember the tyler controversy the one where
00:09she talks about her identity yeah right that she identifies as colored unapologetically too
00:15yeah and for many people that was the first time they've actually heard about
00:19the colored identity and it was on a u.s podcast actually that the south african singer herself
00:25made that particular statement yeah and fatu even did an explainer on that because it's
00:30this whole conversation around race and identity yeah exactly in fact we should have a snippet of
00:36that oh yeah they've already had it popped in but we also in fact have the whole reel on our
00:41tiktok channel maybe we should play a bit of that for you to see what we're talking about
00:44the south african grammy winner was recently asked about the topic of colorism in south africa on a
00:50u.s podcast tyler recently clarified that she has black zulu irish mauritanian and indian heritage
00:57so in south africa she's considered colored elsewhere she's seen as black because of her
01:03african roots after the interview tyler took to eggs to explain that she never denied her blackness
01:08and doesn't expect to be identified as colored outside of south africa by anyone not comfortable
01:14doing so well that's just the snippet the full reel is on tiktok but welcome to the show on
01:19colored identity my name is fatu elika muloshe and i am rachel duati
01:29so what seemed to be like a debate about one singer opened up a much bigger question guys
01:34yeah and when you think about it it's so crazy how this world traveled to uh too fast across
01:41different circles and even within the black community especially yeah for sure for sure and
01:47this even made the sales of tyler tank because you know black americans sort of tend to associate
01:52this colored identity with the jim crow era but who gets to decide who you are and in fact what
01:59does
01:59it mean to be colored today where did this identity even come from and why does it matter to so
02:04many
02:05south africans today we will find out on this show but fatu you were there in south africa um recently
02:12for a street debate how was that for you no yeah i mean it was an interesting one because coming
02:17from
02:17um the gambia i went there thinking i understood what it meant to be black and african but because in
02:25west africa of course for us identity is often tied to your ethnicity growing up being black and african
02:31those two go side by side they're not mutually exclusive and then i got to south africa and then
02:36there's colored so i started questioning how universal these identities really are and the
02:42first thing that clicked was you know what does it mean to be colored does being colored cross a
02:48boundary in redefining what a true african really is i mean i got my answer at the end of the
02:54debate but
02:54it was a journey this is a tough conversation maybe we should take people on that journey in fact
02:59on this show starting with of course why does this identity even exist yeah and even like for me as
03:05somebody who comes from a country that does not identify with racial lines i just want to understand
03:10what does this even term colored you know mean and you know we have kaya in south africa and she's
03:16gonna be telling us what colored means that's a good question rachel let's talk about where the racial
03:25category colored even comes from because it's not some random or vague social term it has a very
03:32specific very political birth date 1950 about state south africa this law came from the all-white national
03:40party government and its purpose was blunt sort every single south african into a racial box so
03:47that the state could control where you lived what you could do and how much power you had
03:54everyone got an identity card that card had your race stamped on it at first there were three
04:00categories white black and colored there was even a category called other colored reserved for people
04:06of undefined heritage indian was added soon after as a fourth and colored became the label for people
04:13of mixed heritage or really anyone the system couldn't clearly slot into the other three i've heard that in
04:19the south africa of today you can be classified as colored simply by looking colored is this in point
04:28of fact true now this wasn't just bureaucratic filing these classifications shaped entire lives the group
04:35areas act passed the same year physically divide the country into racial zones this suburb for whites
04:42this township for colors and so on a couple of years later the past laws or the donbass clamped down
04:49specifically on black south africans freedom of movement
04:54to many people it seems that apartheid is gradually turning south africa into a police state
05:00fatra and rachel are you still with me should we just go back to the studio for a little break
05:04well kaya we're still with you in fact we're beginning to understand that this is so complex
05:09and one would understand also why it is difficult for anyone outside of south africa to actually
05:15understand because being colored does not necessarily just mean that you are mixed yeah it has a very
05:20specific political and racial dimension yeah when you hear the word colored you might think this is
05:26somebody from a mixed yeah parentage and that's what i also used to think before you know when i was
05:30in
05:30school you would hear you know south africa has colored because for people they think that this
05:35was a word that was used for oppression but why did it stay but i'm sure kaya has you know
05:39some of
05:40these answers for us yeah like how did people live through that and how much of those racial lines
05:45still shape life today in today's south africa colored and indian people are officially counted as
05:52black in affirmative action and empowerment legislation alongside black african people that's not as strange
05:58as it sounds back in the struggle days steve bico's black consciousness movement already used black
06:05to mean anyone oppressed by apartheid whatever category you've been put in so plenty of politically
06:11conscious colored and indian activists were calling themselves black long before it became policy
06:17but in daily life colored never went away after apartheid the new african national congress government
06:24kept racial classifications along apartheid lines still on forms and how people talk about themselves
06:31so you get two versions of black existing side by side the broad political one used in policy
06:39and the older more specific colored identity people still actually use
06:43the common denominator between colored people is the afrikaans language which is composed of different
06:50settler languages from africa europe and asia it's important to note that the term colored in south
06:56africa cannot be compared to its use in the usa because the history and meaning behind it are completely
07:03different for many colored people in south africa the term is tied to their identity shaped by how they
07:09grew up their culture family and the language spoken around them even within south africa the colored
07:16community isn't uniform kind of people in cape town differ from those in johannesburg who in turn
07:22differ from those in northern cape and so on fato and rachel i know i know it seems like it's
07:28a lot and
07:29it's super confusing but that's what makes colored people msa so rich in culture are you still with me
07:37we're still with you kaya but coming back to this colored conversation you know even for me i'm
07:42struggling to understand how somebody could be politically identifying as black but culturally
07:47identifying as colored because if i and i get what colored people mean when they say sometimes they
07:53don't identify as black and i also get when they want to identify as black because if you've been
07:58speaking afrikaans if you've embraced the culture how do you separate yourself to this so that you can
08:04also benefit in this category yeah so it's really tough to reckon i know right and so here we can
08:10also
08:11see that the category used by the state does not always correspond to how the people see themselves
08:17you don't necessarily have to become me yes for us to understand the resemblance of what we both share
08:24we can choose to relate to that in our own individual ways but it will not in any way change
08:29the facts
08:29yeah yeah and for sure and that's why we're posing the question can different communities acknowledge
08:34what they have in common without having to become the same you were in johannesburg and you held
08:39this street debate let's see what fatu came with being colored in today's south africa i wouldn't
08:46describe it as a racial classification it's more about your identity to me being a colored is
08:55carrying my history and but not letting it define me color is very diverse it's very diverse culture
09:01you know i i feel like it uh we've adapted and come from a lot of different races
09:14like what jonathan said we take from everything and for me being a part of the colored community
09:20it's real it's really a opulent experience you know i think a lot of people are trying to confine
09:26us to race now non-racialism is a fundamental part of this democracy meaning that race isn't the thing
09:32anymore race was something that was imposed on people i don't subject myself to race we are
09:38african people all of us right but we are different different african people i cannot be forcefully
09:44assimilated into a classification of black just to fit in to what the status quo is do i is there
09:50a
09:50difference between black and and colored absolutely according to the white men there's a difference
09:55between that but when it comes to me identifying according to race i don't subscribe to race i understand
10:01where it comes from all right i mean but um i understand what she is saying but terry and i'm
10:07black in itself is more of a political identity than it is about color is this something that's also
10:12subjective so i think as we've moved on from from race and from the discourse around race like you
10:19said it has moved more to ethnicity right and if you look at ethnicity from a nationalist framework
10:25it's about a shared language it's about a shared history it's about shared markers shared traditions
10:31and if you look at the colored community we have those things shared language we speak english we
10:36speak afrikaans um shared history we have slavery we have apartheid it comes together shared food we
10:42have pickled fish we have all the uh we have we have we have kus sisters we have we have
10:48a shared food
10:48so those are the things that then um create an ethnicity and it's not something that anybody can
10:54just give you it grows it moves it's redefined what i see as colored is from a millennial perspective
11:00what the youngins see as colored is different what older people see as what colored is but we have
11:05become a community which is now an ethnic expression it's interesting and you can hear the sentiment that
11:11what one cannot be forced into a category that they don't resonate with but you can also hear that
11:18they are now trying to move away from the racial category that it was in the past and now becoming
11:23more of you know an ethnicity a culture yeah that they share together for sure and it's also
11:29interesting that they spoke for themselves and they told us like that particular guy said he does not
11:34subscribe to race and with some people like this is more of an ethnic factor as you said but does
11:39being
11:39colored preserve a unique culture or does it keep an apartheid era racial category alive yeah kaya is
11:47patiently waiting for us so let's head back and hear from her there are different perspectives within
11:53south africa's colored communities on how they want to be identified some want to be called colored and
11:59identify with colored culture and way of life just like pop star tyler others reject the term
12:05colored altogether because it's a term from the apartheid regime
12:13on the other hand people reject the term colored because they don't identify with the term colored
12:18just like trevor noah with the swiss father and the kosa mother then there's a group that leans
12:24toward whiteness in how they identify they emphasize the european ancestry and look back with a sense of
12:30pride on the higher social standing colored people held under the apartheid regime for them there's
12:36pride in being everything but black a growing number of colored people are reconnecting with
12:42their koi san heritage instead of calling themselves colored they identify as koi san or koi san the
12:48indigenous people of south africa for this group it's about reclaiming a history that was erased and hidden
12:54this struggle is very much alive today tied to land rights gang violence in the township the loss of
13:00indigenous languages and the push for government recognition and economic opportunities colored
13:06people today are marginalized in south africa economically and socially take jobs for example
13:12colored people are often caught in between not seen as black enough and not white enough either
13:19it's a frustration that keeps building there's no single answer to what it means to be colored in
13:25south africa today only an ongoing search for belonging shaped by history and personal choice
13:31that's that rachel and fatu back to you in the studio
13:38thank you so much for your patience kaya i mean yeah that was a roller coaster but i think it
13:45does
13:45really open a very interesting conversation really this idea of black and african i think for colored
13:51people they don't necessarily see themselves as not black black so for them it's like both can co-exist
13:58but their identity is a particular expression of their africanness and that for me was very interesting
14:04to find out for sure but also remember when the appetite government was doing it they created like
14:08this categorization of you know being colored and people necessarily don't see themselves as a
14:14classification when it comes to like racial lines they see themselves as an identity and i think the
14:19issue of trevor noir is even very interesting to look at how yeah this can be seen because it also
14:24does tell us that there's no one idea of what being african truly can be because he is mixed but
14:30he does
14:31not identify with the color culture and does having a distinct colored identity challenge the broader
14:37idea of what it means to be african what does that search for belonging look like for young coloreds
14:43today let's meet giselle hi rachel hi fato let me give you an inside scoop on colored youth and colored
14:49culture
14:59we came from india malaysia um thailand madagascar that's just to name a few
15:07and we came across the indian ocean all the way to cape town
15:22can you tell me a little bit about your family history my mother and her parents was born in
15:29book up okay and um when she was i think about 16 17 they moved to swan and dumb which
15:35is a little
15:36town in the western cape why did they move from book up to swan and dumb they because of the
15:43group
15:43areas act all coloreds had to move out from the city 6 and book up they put us all through
15:49cape flats
15:51ponty ever and a park man and burke and so forth the colored youth has definitely changed i wouldn't
15:57say the definition but we changed the way we see ourselves when people call us colored because
16:02now it's something that we are proud of what is your favorite traits of being colored we just a unique
16:15culture like um it's like our family we love to celebrate life we don't really need something
16:23to celebrate to have a party to have a party if someone comes here we haven't seen in a long
16:28time what do we do yeah come it's a beat it's a voice goodbye yeah we light a fire on
16:34with the music
16:35and we just love life our culture is so kawaii kawaii means like super cool yes the best like just
16:43like top
16:54notch and i would also use music to explain what being colored means the first thing that comes to
17:01mind is like judy voucher i think she's like a staple in colored communities a lot of people know a
17:07song
17:08that goes like please understand my situation yeah you will hear that constantly at colored family
17:17gatherings
17:30so skirung is a train that is going around amongst like young coloreds it's basically a dance train
17:37that started on tick tock but it's gone so viral that different communities basically challenge
17:44each other and do competitions
18:03and what i noticed right it's the difference between how gen z or young people talk about being
18:11colored and how the older generation talks about being colored it's very different you know during
18:17the debate as well we even look a little bit more into some of the issues that happened and i
18:22did my
18:22little experiment because when you get to a community like that the first thing you want to
18:26do is also to talk to people i even talk to drivers hey you know what do you think about
18:30this
18:30community and what did they say i mean for me the the thing that you know came up is the
18:35fact that
18:36there is there is this stereotype attached to the community so i understand when they mentioned that
18:41and i wanted to ask eventually why were these stereotypes or why are these stereotypes attached
18:48to these communities substance abuse yes gang violence and only to realize that it kind of has a
18:54history yeah of course even when people are deprived of employment and whatever some of these things
18:59you know idleness when they become idle then they don't have anywhere to go and there's crime but
19:03it's coming back to the street debate now but you know the street debate guys it was posted a while
19:08just a few weeks ago i mean you can go on youtube and check it out for yourself for sure
19:13how much of
19:14what we see in these communities today is about identity and how much is the result of generations
19:19of marginalization right now i feel as a reverse apartheid for us right now because we weren't good
19:27enough for for the white men right now we're not good enough for the black men so we have to
19:32teach our
19:32children to embrace being colored embrace who you are as a as a human being as a south african of
19:39this
19:39country we our people are marginalized we have to fight for everything we want in this country and we
19:46as colored people are tired of it our children are educated they're not getting jobs if you look at the
19:52condition of our communities they're in a state so most colored communities are known for the gangsterism and
19:58gun violence etc but that is not a colored community issue it's a socio-economic problem are these issues
20:05peculiar to the colored community if that's the case where does that emanate from in 1809 as far as
20:11i mean it's nearly 200 years or more than 200 years back but it's how they were paid you had
20:16to go and
20:16work and your compensation for your work was alcohol was that specifically for the colored people it was
20:22specifically for the people specifically for the people and deliberately for them i mean harry you
20:28were a former gangster yourself they've mentioned the issue of gangsterism in the community take us
20:34through the thinking behind the idea or the lifestyle of an aspiring gangster okay so
20:42by me being a gangster when i was growing up the cops used to give us the guns i used
20:48to sit in the
20:4910 triple one the cops i said in the 10 triple one car they used to give me the guns
20:54they used to give
20:54me drugs they used to give me everything diamond rings the works the police gave it to us so if
20:59you
20:59look at it nicely because we call it this is the way to destroy us that's a very tough debate
21:06but
21:07you guys were also really keen on the comments because it seems like this content really resonated
21:12with you this information um and you like sort of like responded very fast i remember i was just like
21:18looking at the comments people answering in real time that was like over 800 people yeah yeah and
21:23we can even see you know just what we've heard that these labels go on to have real life consequences
21:29for people and the colored communities are clearly leaving that yeah for sure but what do these
21:33colored communities actually even want let's go back to giselle and see how she chose to leave this
21:38through this every day
21:46i definitely look up to my mom she was let go of a job because of job cuts she had
21:52four children and i was
21:54one of them she started growing vegetables in her backyard and then when she realized that she could make
22:01profit or from this she started a nursery and teaching schools and homes how to grow their own
22:07vegetables and fruits and yeah sustaining a community i think she is my biggest inspiration in life
22:20the most important thing being a young colored is understanding our history and understanding what
22:29our ancestors went through carrying it with us into the future not as a burden but as something that we
22:37overcame together as a culture as a people as a community you know and i wish for the colored youth
22:49to just find themselves figure out your identity find who you are and just be proud of it
23:01i mean it's really a positive way of looking at life for sure realizing that all right we went
23:07through this but we can choose to decide what we can be now you know a classification that people can
23:12actually take this and make it their own and put their own culture in there and apologetically they
23:17don't have to answer to the rest of the world why are they being called colored it's very interesting
23:21and so what does colored become next and moving forward what does that even look like for the
23:27community i think there are systemic issues um that's happening i i'm from a community called
23:35aldorado park and you'll hear stories every weekend of young men dying in aldos young men in western that
23:41are dying you know and i think that there needs to be education around what colored people are going
23:48through i think there needs to be resources there needs to be access there just a lot more needs to
23:54happen to particularly issues faced by the colored community i feel like the colored voice is really
24:00lost in the national conversation and it's lost in the government it's lost you know i feel like if we
24:08have the colored voice we have the representation we can avoid relying on stereotypes so much to define
24:16what and who the colored community is robin what would a colored voice mean to you um it would
24:23definitely mean more representation and our communities we don't just need more food security
24:30etc we need we need funding we need mentorship sessions we need leadership i think every person
24:37of this country has a right to self-identify so the story that i came with here today is to
24:44say look we
24:45are not just all these things that we are classed as gangsters and you know uh murderers and whatever
24:50the case may be we have a story of hope i think we're asking the wrong questions and we need
24:55to
24:55ask ourselves who defines blackness what defines blackness and when people decide you know this is
25:02what blackness means it's it means to be african then we can find a way forward okay the people have
25:07decided that this is who they are yes they don't find the need to want to even change that they
25:12want their
25:13communities to be looked at they want opportunities they want resources and how they choose to identify
25:19should not really make that difficult i can see that anger but i can also see the hunger
25:25to reclaim their true essence in a world that finds it so hard to accept them for who they want
25:30to be
25:30um and of course we can't answer this question if people have already chosen who they are what needs
25:36to change so they can decide who they want to become yes for sure go to our social media platforms
25:42talk to us what do you think what do you identify with we can't wait to catch you next time
25:48thank you
25:48so much for watching my name is fatu elika muloshi and i have been rachel and duatzi until next time
25:54you