- 25 minutes ago
Tom Morello joins Brian Hiatt at The Rolling Stone Studio in our New York office to talk about his first solo rock album, 'Everyone Gets Everything They Want,' his Power to the People Festival, and touring with Bruce Springsteen. He also discusses the controversy surrounding Ed Sheeran and Macklemore, addresses whether he voted for Kamala Harris, and explains why he sees his relationship with Springsteen as a model for liberals and leftists working together. Plus, Morello reflects on borrowing riffs from his teenage son Roman, honoring Chris Cornell at his shows, how his late mother, Mary Morello, inspired his lifelong fight for justice, whether Audioslave's band name was a problem, and much more.
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00:00With regards to the record, it's probably the last record I'll make before they throw us all in jail.
00:06So, let's make the most of it.
00:12Hey, I'm Brian Hyatt. Welcome to the Rolling Stone studio.
00:16So excited to be here with the great Tom Morello.
00:20How's it going, man? How you doing?
00:21Pretty good. You are a Rock and Roll Hall famer.
00:24So it is rumored.
00:25So you have your first solo rock record coming out at this point in your career.
00:30Everyone gets everything they want.
00:32I really enjoyed that record.
00:33And then you have your own festival, Power to the People, on October 3rd.
00:37So you're, as usual, a busy man.
00:39That's very, very true.
00:40With regards to the record, it's probably the last record I'll make before they throw us all in jail.
00:46So let's make the most of it.
00:48And then the festival, too, comes at a historical crossroads in our democracy where we're doing what we can with
00:54what we've got.
00:55You mentioned being on a blacklist.
00:57Do you really feel you're on a blacklist?
00:58Well, I mean, I don't think that anyone would be an honor to be on a blacklist at this point.
01:03And I think that we live in a time where if it looks like fascism, if it talks like fascism,
01:11if it acts like fascism, if it lies like fascism, if it kills like fascism, brothers and sisters, it's fascism.
01:17You know, just today we've had Trump announce his own state news network that will report the news to his
01:23liking.
01:24And so, you know, those of us that aren't on a blacklist are the ones that aren't doing enough at
01:28this point, I suspect.
01:29Now, you love a lot of bands and a lot of music that isn't political.
01:33Sure.
01:34From Judas Priest to Rush.
01:37But that said, what do you make of the Ed Sheeran situation?
01:41It's in some ways it's a distraction and in some ways it's the whole thing.
01:47It's a distraction because, you know, Ed Sheeran is not a victim or someone we should be focusing on, nor
01:53is Macklemore.
01:54The war crimes that were brought to the fore on the stage by Macklemore's speech are the ones that should
01:59be the primary focus and not be distracted by whether or not Ed Sheeran is crying today or crying tomorrow.
02:05That's what I think about it.
02:06On the other hand, it's the whole thing where the idea that a handful of ruling class billionaires get to
02:14decide what speech can occur on a concert stage is a very worrying element.
02:20But I think that that is indicative of the moment that we're in.
02:24Like, who decides what the truth is?
02:26Who decides who gets to say what?
02:28There's a handful of extraordinarily super rich people who believe it should be them in every instance.
02:33I disagree with that assessment.
02:35And I think that in this in this at this crossroads of our democracy, it's the people who are going
02:41to make a determination of whether or not that stands is no one different from you and from me.
02:46You know, history is not something that happens.
02:48It is something that we make.
02:49And there is absolutely no neutrality in this particular moment.
02:52Is there an argument that people's focus on Ed Sheeran as far as, you know, kind of berating him even
03:00after his statement is indeed a distraction from what they should be focusing on?
03:05Yeah, I mean, 100 percent.
03:06It's all right to shame him in this moment because he deserves he deserves the shame, but not the focus.
03:11I mean, the focus is your and my tax dollars are going to commit horrific war crimes in the Middle
03:15East.
03:15And that, I believe, should be the focus and what we should be doing our best to stop in its
03:20tracks.
03:20The it's a it's a clickbait.
03:22It's salacious.
03:23It's oh, my gosh, poor Ed Sheeran.
03:24First of all, did Ed Sheeran never seen a Macklemore performance before in the last three years?
03:30He certainly should have known what he was was was getting into.
03:34But again, even the fact that we're spending this amount of time during an interview talking about Ed Sheeran when,
03:39you know, there are worldly matters that greatly outweigh it.
03:42And a kickass new record that I've made, which also, I believe, greatly outweighs it.
03:46Seems like it's it's sort of feeding into kind of a TMZ frenzy about something that becomes a distraction from
03:53the stuff that really matters.
03:54My last Ed Sheeran question.
03:56Having said that, I got a couple more on the topic.
03:58Even though he is the guest vocalist on every track on your album.
04:02The crazy thing is I had to kick Ed Sheeran off of my tour after that.
04:05Yeah, we need to get find a new opening act.
04:07I mean, the one thing that sort of adjacent is like this is a time where where speech is being
04:14vilified is a crime, where the truth is a crime, where skin color is a crime, where immigrant status is
04:21a crime, where gender is a crime, where sexual orientation is a crime.
04:25And it's my belief that the true crime is the rise of authoritarianism and the true crime is the erosion
04:31of freedoms and the true crime is an impending environmental disaster.
04:36And so, you know, my hope, you know, each one of my shows, I deputize the audience as anti-fascist
04:41crime fighters.
04:42And that's really the way that I think you have to look at the world right now.
04:45Like, what are the real crimes that are happening?
04:47And what is it that you and I can do to stop it?
04:49Now that I've gotten you fired up.
04:52Your Power to the People Festival.
04:53What is its most essential purpose?
04:55Sure. The Power to the People Festival is, it is not PR or hyperbole to say it is a festival
05:02of peace, love, justice, and music.
05:05In a time where war is celebrated, this is a festival of peace.
05:09In a time where hatred and division are rife, this is a festival of love.
05:13In a time where injustice is the norm, this is a festival celebrating, fighting for justice.
05:18In a time where there's a lot of shitty music, there's going to be a lot of great music on
05:22this stage.
05:22So we're going for four for four.
05:25How much were the midterms on your mind when you scheduled this?
05:27I mean, I think that the, you know, as my dear departed mom, Mary Morello, who passed away at 102
05:33years old,
05:34was a very political person, said, you've got to fight the fascist every which way you can.
05:38One of those ways is at the ballot box.
05:40It's not the only way, and you should not just think that because you've done that.
05:45Voting is a piece on the chessboard.
05:47And that you try to create an environment where in between the voting, you can fight for a more just,
05:54a more peaceful, a more equal world.
05:57And so, you know, is the festival three weeks before the midterms?
06:02Yeah.
06:03Does the money from the festival go to voting rights organizations?
06:06Yeah, it does.
06:06But the festival is about something much bigger than that.
06:09It's about what kind of world do you really want to live in, and should we fight for that world,
06:14or should we settle for the ones being spoon-fed for us by the oligarchs?
06:17I want to return to the electoralism issue in a second, but I did want to say I'm really sorry
06:22about your mom.
06:22Thanks, thanks.
06:23I was wondering if her passing kind of has fired you up in a new way.
06:28Well, I mean, her existence fired me up from the time that I was a tot.
06:33But, you know, her life was, she led a very humble life, but a life of great purpose and power.
06:39You know, in someone's declining years, you're spending a lot of time with them and focusing on their health.
06:43But when, you know, my mom passed, it was just the overwhelming, you know, I heard from teenage girl refugees
06:50in Afghanistan who had been inspired by her life.
06:52You know, I heard from the president of Chile, you know, who had been in the Rage Against the Machine
06:57mosh pit in 2010 and had followed Mary Morello's story.
07:01You know, artists across, some of my favorite artists were doing moments of silence at their concerts for this little
07:07old lady from suburban Illinois who never had any ambition beyond just trying to help people.
07:13I mean, her, from feeding hobos on the back porch in the Great Depression to, you know, marching against wars
07:20for oil in the 80s and the 90s, for her 100th birthday, she had two wishes.
07:25One was to feed the homeless at the Midnight Mission in downtown L.A.
07:29The other was to walk the picket line for striking hotel workers with the Unite Here Union, which she did
07:34in her wheelchair.
07:35You know, does her passing fire me up?
07:36Like, I, you know, miss her greatly, and every, you know, part of my DNA, whenever I'm playing a chord
07:44or talking to Rolling Stone, a part of her DNA and her ferocious, she was always the most radical and
07:50popular member of the Morello family, and that goes undisputed.
07:52She basically was a real-life Tom Jode.
07:55It's really incredible.
07:55Yeah, yeah, it is incredible, yeah.
07:56I mean, you're not wrong.
07:58I mean, the way that I look at, too, is, like, whenever someone stands up without any hope of recognition,
08:04stands up for people who have less, my mom will be there.
08:07Whenever a parent allows their cacophonic punk rock band to practice in the basement, my mom will be there.
08:14Whenever a white person stands up against racism or for immigrant rights, Mary Morello will definitely be there.
08:19Did you make this entire record after she was gone?
08:23No, no, no.
08:23She got to actually hear it before she passed.
08:25Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got to play it for her in her, you know, in her last week or so,
08:28and my mom always had a unvarnished editorial comments on the music of my career, from practicing in her basement
08:36when I was 17 to practice, she lived right next door in my studio, actually, I was practicing in my
08:40mom's basement, you know, when she was 100 years old, and she would comment on, you know, the song she
08:45liked more and the song she liked less.
08:48Fortunately, this record got a thumbs up from Mary.
08:50This album really does encompass all the things that you've done in your career, which are more than people might
08:56realize, you know, you did, you had a band called Rage Against the Machine, I don't know, you recall, yeah?
09:01Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:01Yeah, and with Audio Slave, you brought in Chris Cornell and learned to write with more room for melody, and
09:09changed a lot of things about the way you play.
09:11You did your Night Watchman stuff that was folky, you played with Bruce Springsteen, you've done many different things, and
09:17I do hear all of it.
09:18Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is the heaviest record that I've made since the first Rage record, that's for sure.
09:23I wanted to make a record that had 10 out of 10 powerful riffs strewn throughout, but it also, that's
09:30one of the goalposts.
09:30The other goalposts is, you know, I love Darkness on the Edge of Town in Nebraska, and the early Dylan
09:35records, and that Night Watchman, you know, Cafe Wa folk music side of me is very much alive and well
09:41on this.
09:41But the idea was to make a heavy record, and my muse for this record was my 15-year-old
09:45son, Roman Morello, who's now toured with me for the last three summers.
09:48He's, you know, I would be, with my ear to his door, poaching his best riffs for this record, and
09:55he contributed to five songs on the record, and we just got done with a run of shows.
09:59And I've never been more excited or happier playing music and writing music than I am right now.
10:05Which show, which moments, which riffs are his?
10:08Let's see, Soldier in the Army of Love, Adjournit, the song with Serge Tankian, Unconquered, the kneecap riff one, is
10:16his.
10:17I've had the track list, but there's a couple more as well.
10:19But the thing that is interesting about, you know, lifting those riffs from Roman is that he clearly has, one,
10:27a knowledge of my catalog, two, has Morellian riff-writing DNA, but it's through an entirely different lens.
10:33One, there's a familiarity to them, like, oh, that's a kick-ass riff that I wish I had written, and
10:38we just have a ball doing it.
10:39Then he just goes back to being a humble little 15-year-old kid after shredding his ass off.
10:43It's pretty special.
10:44When you talk about a different lens that he has, what is that different lens?
10:47Yeah, I mean, it's, well, it's just, it's through his own individuality.
10:50Like, first of all, my kids didn't really know what I did for a living until I never played Rage
10:57for them.
10:57I never played Audios Day for them.
10:58I'm just dad who drove them to Little League games, right?
11:01And it was in 2022 when, you know, Rage was going on tour.
11:06One night, they didn't have a babysitter, so I had to drag them to the, you know, rehearsal studio, kicking
11:11and screaming.
11:12And, you know, they sort of got to, the first time they heard Rage Against the Machine, they were in
11:15a room with it.
11:17And, you know, they were like, oh, so dad's not just the guy that sleeps late.
11:21You know, there may be another, there may be another layer to it.
11:24But then, you know, touring, they came on tour that summer, and they went from liking some artists in the
11:29world of K-pop and the world of this, that, and the other to deeply exploring the Sabbath and Zeppelin
11:34and Rage Against the Machine catalogs.
11:37You started much later than Roman got to start on guitar.
11:41I didn't start until I was 17 years old.
11:42Yeah.
11:43So he's way ahead of you.
11:44Way ahead.
11:45Way ahead.
11:45I mean, he's way ahead of me now.
11:47Like, it's a, he has a technical prowess on the instrument that is one that, you know, I haven't, I
11:52haven't touched.
11:52Does it make you wonder about the nature versus nurture thing?
11:55Do you think that if you'd started earlier, you'd be even better somehow?
11:59Everybody's on their own journey.
12:00You know what I mean?
12:00Like, if I had started, I mean, the pillars of any guitar talent I have or any creative success that
12:08I have were all based on fundamental failures, right?
12:12The first was I got a guitar when I was 13 years old.
12:15I took two guitar lessons, and I failed at them.
12:17I wanted to learn Black Dog by Led Zeppelin and Detroit Rock City by Kiss.
12:21They wanted to teach me the C major scale on how to tune the guitar.
12:24I said, no, thank you.
12:26The guitar collected dust for four years until I got the Sex Pistols cassette.
12:30So the failure to succeed at lessons unlocked for me the idea of really finding a wholly independent path on
12:38the guitar, right?
12:39Then the next failure was I got my first check working for Senator Alan Cranston, you know, back in the
12:4480s.
12:45I had a custom guitar made, and it was the worst guitar of all time.
12:50I failed to get a guitar that could sound like I wanted it to sound, and I finally just gave
12:55up after trying to buy equipment and whatnot.
12:57And I just decided the sound that I have, an imperfect sound, a sound that an island of misfit toy
13:04sound was just going to be my sound.
13:06I'm going to create with it.
13:07And that guitar is the guitar I played on 22 records, right?
13:10The next major failure was the most important one.
13:12It was I moved to Hollywood to be a rock star and to make albums, and I got signed to
13:18Geffen with my band Lockup, you know, my pre-Rage Against the Machine band Lockup.
13:21And we made a record with possibly the worst title in the history of Western music, Something Bitchin' This Way
13:27Comes.
13:28And then we were summarily dropped from the label, and we didn't have 15 minutes of fame.
13:32We had 15 seconds of people returning our phone calls.
13:35I was 27 years old.
13:36I had failed to do the thing I wanted to do.
13:39I was not going to be a rock star.
13:40I was not going to make records, but I still was a musician, and I made a solemn vow to
13:45never play another.
13:46We did everything everybody asked.
13:47The producer knew what was best.
13:48The A&R person knew what was best, and none of that worked out.
13:52So I made a solemn vow to never play another note of music that I didn't believe in.
13:55And that's when I began writing riffs that would comprise, in part, the first Rage Against the Machine record.
14:00And the final crucial failure was being unable to keep that band together.
14:07And I sort of saw myself as like, I'll be in one band for, like, Jimmy Pate, you're in Led
14:11Zeppelin, and you're like, and that's the thing.
14:13And it just did not happen.
14:14What felt like a tremendous failure, like, the dream is real.
14:17Like, you're able to have the politics that you believe in and the music that you love, you know, on
14:23the cover of Rolling Stone magazine, and it just goes away.
14:26And it opened the door to, you know, Audioslave, to playing with Bruce Springsteen, to collaborating with everybody from, you
14:35know, Joan Baez to Wu-Tang Clan, to playing with my son now.
14:38And the greatest musical experience of my life were, you know, one door closed and a million beautiful windows opened.
14:44It sounded like you were blaming yourself.
14:46I blamed myself for all those failures, and they were the best thing that could have possibly happened to me.
14:50The first time that I saw you front a rock band was the E Street Band, in duetting with Bruce
14:56Springsteen on the coast of Tom Jones.
14:57And it does feel like Bruce, because the playing the guitar part, that's what you did.
15:03Sure, sure.
15:04And doing solo acoustic Nightwatch, I mean, you did that.
15:07Sure, sure.
15:07But getting up there and not only fronting a band, but it's the E Street Band.
15:12Sure.
15:12And you're standing next to Bruce Springsteen.
15:13It feels like Bruce kind of perhaps dragged you a little bit, kicking and screaming into that.
15:18Well, I mean, the thing, the difference with that was I was very artistically content as a singer-songwriter in
15:27the world of folk music.
15:29And I had intention, I'd played a lot of guitar solos on a lot of records and made a lot
15:33of records with a lot of guitar.
15:36And playing, you know, an 82-bar solo in The Ghost of Tom Jode, what it brought me back to
15:43was playing electric guitar.
15:44And sort of, you know, I was very comfortable sort of singing songs of social justice, but in the context
15:50of a roaring band with a blazing guitar solo,
15:53that was really, in some ways, like all roads, an important signpost on the road that's led to Everyone Gets
16:00Everything They Want.
16:01This is a record, this is the 22nd record of my career, if you count like the Springsteen records, Prophets
16:06of Rage, et cetera, et cetera.
16:07But all roads have led here. This is the record that embraces the totality of what I am as an
16:13artist and what I can do as a guitar player.
16:16And maybe more importantly, as a curator of artistic experience, whether it's on the stage or whether it's on a
16:23song.
16:24There's even a moment or two when you do something akin to rapping yourself.
16:28Yeah, I mean, Soldier in the Army of Love is a, you know, like, you know, Joe's drummer on the
16:32Sandinista record.
16:33I would never consider myself a rapper, but sometimes saying words in a row that rhyme with a forceful set
16:42of ideas is not something I'm opposed to.
16:44Did you have to psych yourself up to that?
16:46If you've written something you believe to be true, there's no psyching yourself up.
16:49There's just a matter of delivering the goods.
16:51I love that.
16:52Yeah.
16:52There's some ballad moments.
16:53You really, you evoke to me more than ever, Leonard Cohen meets Roger Waters.
17:00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:01Well, those of us that are blessed and cursed with a deep, rich, milk chocolate baritone voice, those are the
17:06waters you're swimming in.
17:08But, of course, huge fan of both sort of lyrically and thematically and vocally of Leonard Cohen.
17:15And, you know, I'm Not Yours to Command, which is the first piano song that I wrote on the record,
17:19maybe will be surprising to some people, is very much in that vein.
17:22Having Roman right there, sort of, in your mind, kicking your ass a little bit, how does that, does it
17:29make you want to practice more?
17:31How does that work?
17:31I actually look at it like it's very complimentary, you know, to what I do, in a way.
17:37It's great in a concert to be able to throw focus, you know, and we just were playing last night
17:42and he plays the two solos in Mr. Crowley and people's jaws are on the floor in between them crying
17:47because it's so, you know, and it's, you can call it nepotism, but I don't think it's nepotism when your
17:52kid's that fucking good.
17:53I saw a few shows on the Bruce tour and incredible rock and roll shows.
18:00I'm curious about, you played with the East Street Band before, this was different.
18:05Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:06What did you take away from that tour?
18:07What was different for you?
18:09Well, I mean, it was really the genesis of the tour.
18:12The spark of the tour was I did a benefit show for the families of Renee Good and Alex Preddy
18:19and asked Bruce to be a part of that.
18:21And we were talking about doing the Power of the People show at the time.
18:24It was those murders which really, you know, lit a fire under not just artists, but people everywhere were like,
18:30like, this is really serious.
18:31And, you know, the government is murdering American citizens in the streets with impunity.
18:37What are, what are you going to do about it?
18:39And so, you know, Bruce and I were talking and he had written the song Streets of Minneapolis and he
18:44asked me to play it at the show.
18:46At the show, I was like, and he sent it to me and I was, I thought, this is such
18:50a gorgeous song.
18:50And he was concerned that it was maybe too spot on to sort of nail on, nail on the head.
18:56You know, and I proposed that he has, you know, 40 records of great nuanced poetry and sometimes it's all
19:04right to, you know, kick them in the teeth.
19:07He put the song out and called me back and said, I got good news and I got bad news.
19:11And the good news is it's the number one song on YouTube in the world.
19:16And the bad news is I'm not going to play your show in Minneapolis.
19:20And I was like, what, but why?
19:23And he said, he didn't want to, you know, he's a very thoughtful person.
19:25He didn't want to come across as like promotion for his song.
19:28Like he's trying to hype it up in any way.
19:30And, you know, he's a, he's a very thoughtful person.
19:32We had a long back and forth about, I was saying, well, from an activist perspective, you know, those people
19:38might need, need you in that moment in a way that's going to do really put wind, steel in their
19:45spines and wind, wind in their sails.
19:47The final straw was I was actually in the, in the car with my son, my older son Rhodes.
19:52And, you know, he was very interested in the national events at the time.
19:56And he said, dad, you know, who's going to be really psyched if Bruce Springsteen doesn't go to Minneapolis ice.
20:01Bruce overheard that was like, you really know how to twist the knife.
20:05And he, and he came and what happened in that room is like, I've played a lot of those shows
20:10and, you know, Bruce has played shows which are spiritually, you know, 20 out of 10.
20:15But there was something in that room about like, we're involved in a fight right now.
20:19And you're, we're different, potentially difference makers in that.
20:22A couple of days later, his manager called up and said, what are you doing in April and May?
20:25And so taking the energy from that room and putting it in 20 arenas was, I mean, I think just
20:30a genius stroke on his part.
20:32And it was just an, it was an honor to be a part of it and to feel that the,
20:36the uncompromising and uncompromised nature of those shows at what will hopefully be the turning of the tide.
20:43I'm curious how much you had to do with the choice of Clampdown and also in helping the East Street
20:47Band kind of nail that song, which is pretty different.
20:50Well, first time we played Clampdown was in 2014 and it was my, it was my suggestion then, but it
20:54was Bruce's idea to bring that, The Clash's greatest anti-fascist song back and make it a centerpiece of the
21:00set.
21:01I am curious whether you see your relationship with Bruce as any kind of helpful metaphor for sort of the
21:09closer to center left and the further left trying to find common ground and working together.
21:14100%. I think that that's, I think that's absolutely accurate.
21:18And that realizing that we're all in this together and a lot of it has to do with sort of
21:23identifying, like sort of scientifically identifying, like what is the problem right now and how would we address it?
21:31The problem is not trans athletes. You know what I'm saying? The problem is not, the problem is that the
21:36people who own and control the world don't deserve to.
21:39They are not doing it in your interest. They're not doing it in my interest. I mean, and also it's
21:43surprising to me that there are not more pitchforks, torches and guillotines in the streets.
21:48Like at this point, I think it's 35th in child poverty in the industrialized world, 36th in literacy, 54th in
21:56infant mortality, number one in prisons, prison population, you know, number one in student debt, in healthcare debt, number one
22:05in taxpayer dollars committing war crimes around the world.
22:09Like, what the fuck? Like, it's like, it's, it's kind of, we're at a now or never moment where one,
22:14the biology of the planet is at stake.
22:17The health and welfare of billions of people are teetering on the brink. And this is not a moment to
22:24be just sort of arguing about Ed Sheeran and trans athletes. It's a moment to really rise up and do
22:28something about it.
22:29How much, if ever, do you and Bruce Springsteen discuss your political differences?
22:33I think we're, we're, we're aligned on all the matters that count, you know, and that I, much like the
22:39power of the people, I've done a lot of smaller shows on power of the people where I think it's
22:44important to have a big and welcoming tent.
22:46You know what I mean? Here's, you know what, you know what, there's a very simple litmus test for this
22:50one. Are you for or against fascism in the United States? Check a box.
22:54You know what I'm saying? And if you check the right one, the stage is open.
22:58Returning as promised to the electoralism issue, there are some on the left who tend to argue, it doesn't matter,
23:06don't bother voting, both sides are the same.
23:08So what would you say to someone on the left who says, listen, man, you know, I listened to Rage
23:13Against the Machine. I know everyone's the same. It's about tearing down the power structure. It doesn't matter who you
23:18vote for. I'm not voting.
23:19On the one hand, I think that rebellion is self-care in a way. But I answered that already. Like
23:25Mary Morello was 100% right. You have to stop the fascists every which way you can.
23:30First of all, a lot of people who I greatly respect and admire the sacrifice they've made to try to
23:38get people with my color skin to be able to vote in this country and have died, you know, been
23:43lynched for it.
23:43They've been shot in the back for it. And it's very disrespectful to their memory to do that. But that's
23:48not of you. It is that in and of itself is not going to change the levers of power in
23:53a significant way.
23:54It's not. It's not. You should do it. And Mary Morello, God rest her soul, is going to. But it
23:59would be like, OK, great. You vote. And on the next day, you start working.
24:02You start working harder for the world you really want without compromise and without apology and not just putting in
24:08the hands of whatever corporate Democrat you choke down your vote for in that particular election.
24:13That it's your job to make the world the way that you think it could be to help those that
24:18are the most in need and to hold those accountable who are most guilty.
24:22But just to be clear, you do feel that people on the left should have voted for Kamala Harris.
24:27I'm crystal clear that people's conscience cannot allow them to do something that they fundamentally believe is wrong.
24:37I was the scheduling secretary for United States Senator Alan Cranston. I saw how the corporate Democrat sausage is made.
24:44It is worse than you think. And there is a reason there is a righteous fury at the at the
24:51corporate controlled, money controlled electoral system we have that is absolutely legitimate.
24:56And people cannot choke down voting for a candidate. I understand it cannot choke down voting for a candidate that's
25:02responsible for what happened in Gaza and that and they just they can't do it.
25:06And I'm not going to blame them for that. It's but I think that putting it on them is the
25:10most cowardly thing.
25:11Put it on the fucking Democratic Party who refuses to like to. First of all, I don't believe that there
25:18it's their responsibility and they're never going to necessarily never do the right thing.
25:23But I think it's all of our responsibility to co-create the world that we want and not point fingers
25:29at people that were just like my conscience didn't allow me to do that.
25:31So it's your fault. I just don't. I will not co-sign that. I get it. Interestingly, you you voted
25:36for Kamala.
25:37I certainly did not. You did not. OK, no, I couldn't do it. I didn't really be for V for
25:42Vendetta that one inch, that one inch of who you are belongs to you and they can't have it.
25:48Now, I live in a state where, you know, that may not have moved the meter, but I just couldn't
25:53do it. Couldn't do it.
25:54When's the last time you didn't vote for the Democratic candidate? I don't can't remember the last time I did.
25:58Wow. OK, I thought you were softening a little bit.
26:01I'm wrong. I can't remember the last time I did. So I would say this is a point of disagreement
26:06with Bruce Springsteen.
26:08Oh, I mean, yeah. I mean, that's not. Yeah, I think, you know, he's he's doing the right thing, how
26:14he how his political and personal barometer leads him.
26:18And so am I. And I respect that. And I think he respects my point of view.
26:21Speaking of metaphors, is it also at all fair when people say, hey, there's a cliche that people on the
26:29on the left are prone to factionalism and group split.
26:34That's not a cliche. That's that's that's that's what that's what it always is.
26:38Well, and some people say, well, look at Rage Against the Machine. It's like a metaphor.
26:41It's that Rage Against the Machine is a metaphor for that. Do you see that?
26:44I mean, that's the issues with that band, which I will not give you clickbait to even talk about.
26:51But but no, I mean, it's the left. It's always been a problem.
26:56And one of the reasons why I'm doing a show like what I do at my shows and we'll do
27:00it.
27:01Power of the People is in that show.
27:03And at that moment, you create a little bit of the world that you'd like to see.
27:06You create a kind of unity. You create a celebration of resistance.
27:11You create embracing folks who are today aligned because we love this music and we're opposed to fascism.
27:17And that, I think, is for me, feels like a path forward.
27:21Brad said that Rage will never play again. Do you agree?
27:25Rage Against the Machine last made a record 26 years ago.
27:29Rage Against the Machine played 19 shows in the last 15 years.
27:32If it ever becomes an issue again, you'll be the first one I call.
27:36Tell me about playing live in this configuration.
27:40How is it different for you?
27:41Yeah, well, I've been doing over the course.
27:42You know, I've been playing solo shows since 2001.
27:45Right. So I'm not new to it.
27:48But this record is greatly informed by the shows I've been playing over the course of the last four or
27:54five years where I've embraced the catalog.
27:56I love and respect the fact that people need to hear Rage Against the Machine riffs in this moment.
28:02I very much for myself need to honor Chris Cornell's memory at every show and playing audio slave songs.
28:10The Night Watchmen stuff and the acoustic stuff is near and dear to my heart.
28:13That is music that I will never let go of.
28:15And I've never enjoyed playing new kick-ass riffs more than I do right now.
28:23That's what the shows have been.
28:25And, you know, over the course of the last three years, we've played probably in front of two or three
28:29million people, you know, around the globe with my great band, the Freedom Fighter Orchestra.
28:33And I wanted to make a record that reflected that.
28:36I want to make a record that reflected the heaviness of the riffs, the authenticity of the point of view,
28:41and on each song and in each venue, trying to create a little bit of that world that we'd like
28:47to one day see.
28:47I did want to ask you about the story behind the song Date Night, which is based on a true
28:51story.
28:51Yeah.
28:52Well, I make anti-racist songs for anti-racist, anti-fascist songs for anti-fascist.
28:57In the case of Date Night, anti-Nazi songs for anti-Nazis.
29:00Date Night is a true story.
29:03The song is about a true story of three Dutch teenage girls in World War II during the occupation who
29:09seduced Nazi officers and murdered them in the woods.
29:13They were the Hanny Schaft, who was the youngest, began her guerrilla campaign at 14 years old.
29:18The two older sisters survived the war and lived to ripe old age.
29:22Hanny was captured, tortured, and murdered by the Nazis in the final months of the war, but never snitched on
29:28her sisters.
29:28And I wrote Date Night in their memory for those heroes.
29:32Crazily, it is controversial to sing an anti-Nazi song in 2026.
29:38There's been a considerable amount of pushback on that song.
29:42And the idea that—I mean, I thought sort of the—that issue might have been settled, that World War II Nazis
29:49were bad, and that those that resisted them and fought against them were the good guys.
29:56That issue is back up for contention now in 2026.
30:00I always thought there was a movie in that story, but at least we got a song.
30:02Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I thought that, too.
30:04I went to every movie studio and production company in Los Angeles trying to convince them to make that television
30:11show or movie, and they didn't, so I wrote it myself.
30:13I'm afraid you make me blush, sir. Your compliment's so fine.
30:18Do you still write riffs only on a nylon stringer toothpick?
30:22It varies now. The reason why I used to write riffs for Rage and Audioslave on nylon was because in
30:28a Hollywood apartment, you couldn't exactly crank up the Marshall stack whenever inspiration struck.
30:34So, yeah, I still have the principal guitar in my house. It's now a steel string acoustic.
30:38It's actually Wayne Kramer's old guitar, which is in my house now, which I try to evoke his spirits when
30:44writing new riffs on that one, when not stealing Romans.
30:46So you've slightly gotten closer to electric by writing on a steel string acoustic.
30:51Yeah, exactly. But I still have the ability to hear, you know, whether it's a nylon string or a steel
30:58string acoustic guitar, what it's going to sound like at Reading Festival, you know, with a band roaring behind it.
31:03And to be clear, are you now writing some riffs on electric?
31:07Yeah, sometimes. Like, for example, Beth from Electronics, the instrumental song that starts the record.
31:13Very cool. It was written. You know, we were just I was recording a guitar solo for some other song.
31:17And while the engineer was, you know, kind of fiddling around, I just played that, you know, in its entirety
31:23was just off the off the cuff.
31:24And I said, did you record that? And he said, yeah, I did. I said, we're going to start the
31:28record with that.
31:29So that was one that I mean, that was not just written on electric that was written and recorded in
31:35one take.
31:35This is either the least or most contentious thing I could ask you about. Very different.
31:39Yeah. A lot of people are abandoning physical amplifiers and using digital emulation and they sound pretty damn good.
31:47But what are your feelings about that? I see that. Well, one, I'm a creature of habit.
31:50I still I've never used a wireless guitar or anything like that, not out of any audio purity, but just
31:56out of it's it sounded pretty good in 92 and it sounds pretty good in 2026.
32:02I will say at the last couple of shows I played, there have been amplifier breakdowns on stage and it's
32:09been proposed by my longtime guitar tech that maybe just as a reserve, we have something that we can count
32:15on.
32:15I said, no. Very ideological.
32:19My most dogmatic position will be that I will not use wireless and I will not use one of those.
32:24You recently said that there are a bunch of unreleased audio slave songs. Sure, sure.
32:29Will we ever get to hear those? There's no reason why not. There's there's no one stopping it from happening.
32:34There's no one making it happen. And yes, they exist. As a fan, I hope that one day we get
32:39to hear them.
32:39I feel like in part because of the huge shadow cast by Rage Against the Machine that audio slave is
32:45as big as they were, perhaps a little bit underrated.
32:48They're a great band. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you about the great band part of it.
32:52I mean, it was such a it was one of the many beautiful windows that was opened, you know, when
32:57Rage went away in 2000.
32:59And Chris Cornell, who I was a huge fan of and still am a huge fan of, got to be
33:02friends with and be in a band with for six years.
33:04And making those songs with him and with audio slave is certainly one of the highlights.
33:13Do you think the band name was not ideal? Like, do you think it was like a possibly you guys
33:17could have come up with a better name?
33:18No, no band names are ideal. Yeah, no band names are ideal.
33:23My theory about band names, and I'm crystal clear on this one, is the one the one thing I'm absolutely
33:27sure of is that your band name does not matter.
33:30Unless you choose a name that is so alienating that people cannot get past it to, you know, enjoy your
33:37butthole surfers.
33:38That might have held them back. You know what I'm saying? That might have held them back.
33:41But, you know, in the earliest inceptions of Rage Against the Machine, it was a name that was frowned upon
33:48by three quarters of the people in the band.
33:51All of our friends and the newspaper, like the L.A. Weekly could never get it right.
33:56We were often known as Rage, something like Rage and If the Machine.
34:00That one worked out, though. It turned out not to be butthole surfers at the end of the band.
34:04I always felt at the time that you guys were like, audio slave was felt like the product of some
34:09kind of like discussion that ended up with a compromise or something like that.
34:13I think that there was a we were actually recorded the audio slave record in its entirety.
34:18And then the band broke up before it came out.
34:21And that as we were reconstituting, it was like, are we going to be a band?
34:24We need a name. Is this the mix?
34:26Rick Rubin was sort of very helpful in sort of like kind of pushing that forward.
34:29Audio slave was Chris's suggestion.
34:31Fronting a band.
34:33Who do you look to?
34:35I mean, certainly Bruce is one of the, you know, that I feel simpatico with in a couple of ways.
34:41One way is that, you know, you don't leave a drop of sweat in anybody, including yourself.
34:49Two is each show, there is a determination that that show is going to be the best show and then
34:57you're going to top it tomorrow.
34:58Three is you may be very excited to see a Bruce Springsteen show or a Tom Morello show, but no
35:04one in that room is more excited to be there than he is.
35:08And at my shows, no one in that room is more excited to be there than I am.
35:11You are really fired up and it's like, honestly, nice to see, you know, you seem very, you seem like
35:17in a very fiery place.
35:20What's not to be fired up about?
35:22Honestly, like what's not to be fired up?
35:23But I want to, you know, you know, if you think about when Rage started.
35:29The Clinton era.
35:29Yeah, Clinton era.
35:30I mean, you know, you had a lot of beefs with the world as it was then.
35:35Things have arguably gotten a lot worse in a lot of ways.
35:38What do you do to combat despair?
35:41That's not kind of how I look at it.
35:42It's like it's, you know, all one has to do is be a student of history.
35:47There have been great inequalities, great challenges, authoritarianism, fascism in the past, and people stand up against it.
35:58That's how I'm just, that's how I'm constituted is it's not like, oh, I'm despairing because it's not better.
36:02Now, well, thank God we've been doing something, Lord knows how bad it might be, you know, if we hadn't
36:07stood up in our, each of us.
36:09And I'm not saying just me or my band or whatever, but people in their time.
36:12I'm constantly inspired by what I see other people doing too.
36:15You know, and I don't think it's the job of a 62-year-old musician to dictate how, you know,
36:22the revolution is going to happen.
36:25And I, it's the ideas of young people are, younger people are the ones who are going to have the
36:28ideas that are going to change the world or allow it to descend into the abyss.
36:33I'm here to provide a soundtrack.
36:34I wonder if part of why you're sort of undaunted by current events is that you saw the Trump thing
36:40coming perhaps more than others.
36:43I mean, in a lot of ways I was surprised, but, but, but by, by some elements of it, but
36:48it's, I mean, there are things you have control over and things that you do not.
36:52You have control over what you think and what, what you do, and then the world happens and then you
36:57respond to it.
36:58But the, the, the North Star and the guy, it's like my inspirations, yes, I love Randy Rhodes and yes,
37:05I love the Clash, but my inspirations were the Black Panther Party and, you know, the weather frigging underground, you
37:12know?
37:12And so the, the idea that, that you can engage and change the world and fight, I, I, blessed and
37:21cursed to be a guitar player.
37:22I did not choose that.
37:24It chose me.
37:24So now I'm stuck and it's, the idea is to find a way to have my, to weave my convictions
37:30into my vocation.
37:32That's what I've been doing over the course of the last 35 years.
37:34I think, you know, there might've been other paths where I might've been more effective, you know, in, in having
37:40my hand on the, the, the wheel of history.
37:43But this is, this is the hand that I've been dealt and it's the thing that I do best and
37:48it's the thing that I enjoy most and, you know, you can't stop me.
37:53I don't see, I want to be wrapping up, but now I feel I want to ask you about the
37:56actions of the weather underground and, and, and to the extent to your, which you really endorse in that.
38:01Cause I said, I think sometimes you make a more general statement.
38:04Well, first of all, I mean, Bernadine Dorn and Bill Ayers are the fairy godparents of my children.
38:08And they are, you know, they, they're as good people as there are on the planet, you know?
38:13And, um, and Zaid Dorn and I wrote the, uh, musical revolutions together, some revolutions together, but they've done out
38:20some of their past actions, right?
38:21Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:23But, you know, unlike, you know, the Democrat and Republican administrations, they didn't kill millions of Vietnamese, you know, which
38:30is what they were riled up about and fought against.
38:32And they were white people who stood up against white supremacy in a way that, uh, really maybe no one
38:39had since John Brown.
38:40And, uh, that's an admirable quality.
38:42See, every answer opens up a new question.
38:45Tom, I could talk to you forever, but thank you so much for coming by the Rolling Stone studio.
38:50I appreciate it.
38:50Always great to talk to you.
38:51Thanks, thanks.
38:52Pleasure, sir.
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