- 3 minutes ago
A debate unfolds over the Election Commission of India's conduct regarding the Special Intensive Revision process and mounting demands from opposition parties for the resignation of Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar. BJP National Spokesperson Dr Syed Zafar Islam defends the initiative, asserting the priority is ensuring that only bona fide citizens remain on the electoral rolls while bogus voters are eliminated. In response, Congress Spokesperson Amisha Thakur and political analyst Sanjay Jha question the legality and haste of the deletions, pointing to observations by the Bombay and Goa High Courts. Sanjay Jha argues, 'If there were decisions taken that were not unanimous or by majority, then they were unconstitutional, they were illegal, and they need to be probed.' Meanwhile, political analyst Rajat Sethi cautions against street-level pressure on constitutional bodies, stressing that any institutional accountability or challenge to quasi-judicial actions must proceed strictly through established constitutional mechanisms and the Supreme Court.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Alright, so the big questions that we asked this evening, before we go on to our guests,
00:03can opposition keep the pressure on?
00:05Will CEC Gyanesh Kumar hold his ground?
00:09Is this citizens' fight or pure politics?
00:13Taking these questions to our panelists this evening,
00:16Amisha Thakur, spokesperson Congress joins us,
00:18Dr. Said Zafar Islam, national spokesperson BJP, former MP Rajya Sabha,
00:23Mr. Rajat Sethi, political analyst, Sanjay Jha, political analyst.
00:26Might we begin with Dr. Islam?
00:30Dr. Islam, the BJP has constantly made very strong defence of the Election Commission.
00:38Do you not find it interesting that in the last one week,
00:42after the report of Indian Express,
00:46you've had a press release by the Election Commission
00:48where they've practically admitted to a lot of those charges
00:51and seemingly suggested ways in which they were going to counter them and rectify that.
00:58The sheer fact today, the announcement by the Election Commission that has stunned many,
01:03that even though SIR process is complete,
01:07the Election Commission is now going to take out a drive
01:10to enrol those voters who have been left out of the SIR process.
01:15One doesn't, how does it all add up?
01:21Well, Riti, first of all, you have to understand,
01:24we are not involved in functioning of Election Commission.
01:28We are not defending, we are not the spokesperson of Election Commission.
01:32We, Election Commission, is a constitutional body,
01:35this institution which is run based on the Constitution
01:38and they are responsible for answering about their work.
01:42Having said that, we are defending one concept.
01:46The concept is the SIR,
01:48the cleaning of electoral roll free from all the bogus voters.
01:53Only the bona fide, the citizen of this country should be part of the electoral roll
02:00and nobody who is not the resident or not the resident of the country,
02:05not the national, international should be part of that electoral roll.
02:10So, I think if anybody has this, has problem with this SIR exercise,
02:15we will continue to question them, we will continue to criticize them
02:19because this is one concept which everybody wants, wanted earlier.
02:24Manu Sangvi, Manu Sangvi of Congress Party,
02:27five-time Raj Sabha MP, he had spoken about it earlier.
02:32Congress doesn't even want to go, do a,
02:37see the interview of Dr. Manu Sangvi,
02:40where he had very clearly articulated and advocated
02:42that all the bogus voters from the electoral list must go
02:46and such exercise should be done by the Election Commission.
02:50When the Election Commission has started that exercise,
02:53they have problem.
02:53But they are seemingly walking back on the same exercise note, Dr. Slav.
02:58The sheer fact that today now you have a notice by the Election Commission
03:02where there is going to be a special drive to enroll those voters
03:05who have been left out of the SIR.
03:07So, there is admittance by the Election Commission
03:09that the SIR was maybe conducted in a hurry.
03:12Something that was a charge which was always made.
03:15Nobody called the SIR illegal.
03:18It is legal.
03:19But was it fair was the question.
03:22Was it done in a hurry is the question.
03:24The sheer fact that today a drive is taken out to enroll those
03:27who have been left out of the circle while the SIR was being conducted,
03:32it's admitting that it was done in a haphazard, quick manner.
03:35Should have been given more time.
03:39Not at all.
03:40Not at all.
03:41See, we have always said, and I am repeating it,
03:45I am repeating it again many times I have said on your program
03:47and on many other programs,
03:50that we are, the only thing we want
03:52that bona fide nationals of this country
03:56who are eligible voters should be enrolled
03:59and bogus voters should be routed out.
04:02That is the only submission and something which we have advocated
04:06and we will continue to advocate.
04:07All right. Allow me to bring in Amisha Thakur, spokesperson of the Congress.
04:10We have not involved in or commented about the process
04:12because that is not our job.
04:14Fair point.
04:15Okay, sir. Allow me to bring in the Congress spokesperson.
04:17Our job is not to criticize about their work.
04:19Amisha Thakur, there are multiple protests that are taking place.
04:21One with the CJP.
04:22Now from Mumbai, they are going to be moving to another state,
04:25be it Goa, Bengaluru.
04:26Or there are the ones which has taken place this morning.
04:29These protests in silos.
04:31Do you think they will be able to add up
04:33and, you know, put enough pressure on the CEC to step down?
04:40Thank you, Preeti.
04:42And I would like to say that, you know,
04:44this case has moved far from the domain of, you know,
04:47merely political assertion to the domain of institutional scrutiny right now.
04:52And a court is asking, you know, a second state is confirming.
04:56The commission is reversing itself without explanation.
05:00And the opposition, you know, six parties and not one,
05:03has published a calendar that is where we are today.
05:06And let me begin with a very, you know, procedural observation
05:09because I think it's essential to how we understand the last 72 hours.
05:14And, you know, the Congress Working Committee on the 29th of September
05:19passed a resolution with four specific demands.
05:22And within, you know, 48 hours on the 30th,
05:24the India blocs met and converted those demands into a six-point program.
05:28And by 1st October, that is yesterday, you know,
05:31the program had become a published calendar of action.
05:34And, you know, it is like a very scheduled on the calendar.
05:38A district level saved democracy markets.
05:40So that's the point.
05:41I mean, Shattakur, it's a schedule on the calendar.
05:42Ultimately, will it gain momentum?
05:45Will it come together where one protest being taken out by a party,
05:49one by the Ahmadami party, there's a pressure group working on its own?
05:53Do you think all of these protests will tie in together to gain momentum
05:57to ultimately get the CEC to step down?
06:01That's the question, ma'am.
06:04See, I think it's a very constitutional observation.
06:08If you look at the Election Commission, it's not a department of government.
06:11And if every party is coming together.
06:13So, you know, it's questioning the constitutional authority
06:16and trust it with the custody of the electoral rules.
06:18But you're not just questioning the constitutional authority, are you?
06:21You're asking for the resignation of the Prime Minister
06:24and as well as the Home Minister.
06:26It's not just, you're not limiting.
06:28You're not limiting yourself just to question the constitutional body.
06:32All right.
06:33Allow me to bring in our other guests into this conversation.
06:35Rajat Sethi, political analyst and Sanjay Jha, both with us.
06:38Rajat, I want to bring you in on this.
06:39Because what's really happening is, while these multiple protests
06:42from political parties across the country are taking place,
06:46the Election Commission and the functioning of it is peculiar.
06:50Because, no, we haven't seen a press conference yet.
06:52We have seen press notes which seemingly are admitting
06:56that there have been lapses and then there is an attempt to correct them.
07:02The sheer fact of the drive that was launched today
07:04to include voters who were left out of the SIR process.
07:07The main aim was to exclude these voters.
07:09And then, of the press release a week ago,
07:13where multiple issues and lapses that were raised by the Indian Express report,
07:18the EC seemingly admitted and said that they were trying to cause correct,
07:23at least with what was in that press release.
07:27So, Preeti ji, please allow me to step outside of the din of politics
07:33and take a more nuanced view on this.
07:36I know in debates like this, there is hardly a place for nuances.
07:39But, you know, it's a question worth pondering
07:42as to how do constitutional bodies respond to popular unrest on the streets.
07:49It is not a popular government which is facing an unrest or protest on the street.
07:53It is a constitutional body which has very well methods and mechanisms
07:58laid out in the very same constitution
08:00that if there is, you know, a trust deficit in that institution,
08:05there are ways in which you can go ahead and impeach a constitutional head
08:09or the members of a constitutional body.
08:12They are not answerable to the people on the streets.
08:16It is a quasi-judicial body and time and again,
08:19the Supreme Court has observed that election commission
08:22being a quasi-judicial body has a reservoir of power.
08:25This was in the MSG 1978 judgment.
08:28The residual powers and a whole host of powers reside with this.
08:32People might, certain sections of the people
08:34might have distrust with this institution,
08:36but the only way to address that is through the elected representatives,
08:42through methods that have been enshrined in the constitution.
08:45Any kind of ultra means, ultra-wires means of trying to pressurize
08:49a constitutional body is not good, should not be approved of,
08:53and should not be supported.
08:55The case is going on on the bona fides of the decision-making of this body,
08:59which is the only platform in which whether the decisions that were made
09:04were done through proper procedures or not,
09:07or whether they can be called ab initio void,
09:10that has to be taken care of by the Supreme Court.
09:13Today, these protesters are going to protest,
09:16these cockroaches are going to protest against the election commission.
09:18Tomorrow, they'll be like,
09:19OK, I don't like a judgment of the Supreme Court.
09:22Let me start protesting against the justices of the Supreme Court itself,
09:25and we will ask resignation of the chiefs justices and the justices.
09:28Where does this stop?
09:30You need to understand that constitutional bodies
09:33are not answerable directly to the people who are trying to protest.
09:37You can only ask your representatives to go out
09:40and ensure that those legal methods that are adopted...
09:43But Rajat, constitutional bodies also have...
09:45I would like to differ on this.
09:46No, one second.
09:47Madam, one second.
09:48Madam, one second.
09:49Hold your piece.
09:50But Rajat, constitutional bodies also have constitutional morality,
09:54and especially in the case of the election commission,
09:58it's not that the EC is answerable to a pressure group like the CJP
10:02or even the Congress.
10:03Of course, they're not answerable.
10:05But if, Rajat, pertinent points have been made
10:08in a bona fide news report,
10:10then it is the responsibility of the election commission
10:13to come out and maybe hold a press conference
10:15and point by point rebut those claims.
10:18Because you are a constitutional body.
10:21It's, you know, by that fact,
10:23Caesar's wife needs to be above suspicion.
10:25But when it comes to a constitutional body, Rajat,
10:28like the EC,
10:29then Caesar's neighbor also needs to be above suspicion.
10:32Every point had to be rebutted, which wasn't.
10:36Go ahead, sir.
10:36The EC's Caesar was elected head of the region
10:42where he was ruling or the king of that region.
10:44This is why the suspicion of people surrounding him
10:46have to be above.
10:47There are methods in a constitutional democracy,
10:50or you can tear apart the entire constitution
10:53and say that we are going to run a street justice approach.
10:56We will be the judge, jury, executioner,
10:58and we will execute Gyanesh.
11:00Do that by all means.
11:01Where did it come from?
11:03It tear apart the constitution of this country.
11:04Do not hold constitution on one side.
11:06Okay, I just want to, I want to extend,
11:08I want to include the others in the debate as well.
11:09Where did it come from?
11:10Last minute here.
11:11Pritiji, an assertion has been made,
11:13a very serious one.
11:14And Pritiji, at repeated,
11:16repeated interventions at your shows,
11:18I have said that,
11:19yes, the press conference should have been made.
11:21But also keep in mind
11:22that this entire matter is now subjudice.
11:24The Supreme Court is exactly looking into those very allegations
11:27that point by point,
11:29were these decisions that were made,
11:31ab initio,
11:32void,
11:33because it did not have the majority of
11:35the three election commissioners or not.
11:37That process is currently under scrutiny.
11:40And why do you want to come out on the streets
11:42and try and create a parallel court out there?
11:44No, but the fact is,
11:45because I'll tell you why.
11:45It's a fundamental problem.
11:46I'm going to bring in Sanjay Jha into this conversation.
11:49I'm not making a political position on this.
11:51No, I hear you.
11:52But, you know,
11:52all I'm just saying is,
11:53Rajat, I'm going to get in Sanjay Jha into this conversation.
11:55But the fact also tantamounts to
11:57that if the election commission of India
11:59can give out a one-way communication
12:01through press releases,
12:02then it can definitely hold a press conference
12:04and rebut point by point.
12:06A constitutional body also has constitutional morality.
12:09That's all I limit my argument to.
12:11And it's got nothing to do with the CJP
12:13or any political outfit.
12:15It has everything to do with owning
12:16and explanation to the voter of this country.
12:19Sanjay Jha, I want to bring you in
12:21and I just want you to, for a moment,
12:23reflect on these multiple protests
12:25that are taking place.
12:26Because somewhere down the line,
12:28every political party in its own political space
12:31is holding a protest.
12:33Do you see all of it
12:35cohesively coming together and mount pressure?
12:40Preeti, since a number of issues
12:42have been discussed by the previous three speakers,
12:44I will try and answer you on bullet points
12:47because there are many issues
12:48that need to be talked about.
12:49I'll be as quick as possible.
12:51As far as the courts are concerned,
12:53let me address that up front.
12:55Let's quote the Bombay High Court
12:57on this great constitutional body.
13:00It has to tell the election commission,
13:03show us the law.
13:05You can imagine the state
13:06of the election commission
13:07where the courts have to tell
13:09the election commission, show us the law.
13:11I also quote to you the Goa High Court
13:13on the existing six voters
13:15who were suddenly deleted.
13:18What empowers you to delete voters
13:20without hearing them?
13:22In fact, both the courts are telling
13:23the election commission,
13:24which I think is the most incompetent,
13:27corrupt organization
13:28on the face of any democracy in the world,
13:32that instead of adding voters
13:33or facilitating voters
13:35who are perhaps on the borderline,
13:37they are in a hurry to delete voters.
13:39Why?
13:40Link it to what's happening in Karnataka.
13:42And let's kind of bite the bullet,
13:43Preeti, here.
13:44It's about time we stopped,
13:45you know, discussing things
13:47at the periphery.
13:48Why are Muslim voters being deleted?
13:51And this is a Hindu report.
13:52They have put out data out there
13:54in black and white in Karnataka.
13:56And it all looks very deliberate.
13:58Look at West Bengal.
14:00Sixteen lakh voters
14:02who's, you know,
14:03who the government wants,
14:05somebody in the election commission
14:06wants them to be removed
14:08from the rolls
14:09when the judicial officers
14:10included them.
14:11All at the click of one button.
14:14Remarkable.
14:14Extraordinary.
14:15Now let's look at the court points
14:17which are highly political.
14:18This is political.
14:19So to pretend that it's not political
14:21is living in a fool's paradise.
14:23Look at the truth.
14:24This is not about the government
14:26or rather the election commission
14:28against Rahul Gandhi
14:29or the Congress.
14:30What did the Indian Express tell you?
14:33It told you it's election commission
14:34versus the election commission.
14:37And Preeti, this is a point
14:38that needs to be articulated.
14:41If there were decisions taken
14:42that were not unanimous
14:43or by majority,
14:45then they were unconstitutional,
14:46they were illegal.
14:47And those points,
14:48Mr. Jha, has been raised.
14:49You know, the fact is
14:50I need to quickly,
14:52I know this requires
14:53a lot more time
14:54and we should have debated it more.
14:55But I have Rajdeep Sardasai
14:57on the other side
14:57with a guess
14:58and he's going to kill me
14:59if I continue to ask
15:00any more questions.
15:01So I thank all four of you
15:03for taking the time out.
15:04My apologies.
15:05We should have debated
15:07this a little more.
15:07But it's over to Rajdeep Sardasai
15:09who has a special guest over there.