00:00New York City is hiring dozens of sophisticated investigators to sift companies' own data for evidence they might be ripping
00:06off consumers.
00:07Sam Levine, the commissioner of the city's Department of Consumer and Worker Protection, is building a 36-person bureau of
00:12data scientists, technologists, and economists who will extract and analyze what he describes as billions of records to help New
00:19York City build cases against predatory corporations and practices.
00:23The commissioner joins us now. Sam, great to see you.
00:25Great to be here.
00:25Talk about what you're putting together here, what the model for this is, and what you hope it's going to
00:29achieve here in the months ahead.
00:31Well, when I took office on January 1st, the commitment I made to the mayor and to the city was
00:35that we were going to eliminate ripoffs in New York City.
00:38That was going to be our mission.
00:39We were going to fight ripoffs.
00:41But the reality is, and I think we heard this from Governor Cox earlier, a lot of the ripoffs New
00:46Yorkers are experiencing today are high-tech ripoffs, whether it's calling an Uber and having no idea how that price
00:52was set,
00:52delivery workers who aren't getting paid what they're owed, going into the grocery store and seeing one price at the
00:58aisle and then a much higher price when you check out.
01:01And we need government that's capable of responding to these high-tech ripoffs.
01:05Rather than being afraid of them, bringing on the best experts in the world so that we can hold companies
01:10accountable for ripping off New Yorkers and get money back in people's pockets.
01:14Not to mix some metaphors here, but are you tilting at windmills?
01:17Because this does seem like a game of whack-a-mole because every time you legislate for something, it seems
01:22like there's a workaround or another way to do this,
01:23especially when you're dealing with these companies that do have so much data-driven oomph behind their pricing decisions or
01:30things like that.
01:30I think it's a really smart point, but the reality is we don't always need new laws.
01:35We need people who can understand how the law protects New Yorkers today.
01:39New York already requires, New York already prohibits deceptive practices.
01:44New York already prohibits unconscionable practices.
01:47New York already says that you're entitled to a predictable schedule to protect the time off, to minimum pay if
01:52you're delivering food.
01:53What we need to build is the expertise inside government to make sure those laws actually have force,
01:59to make sure that companies can't use AI or algorithms to skirt those laws and rip off New Yorkers.
02:05That's exactly what we're going to do with this new division.
02:07What's the pitch that you're making to technologists I mentioned, the economists, who might consider going into public service now?
02:14Why is this a job that you think should be enticing or appealing to somebody who wants to get into
02:17this world?
02:18Well, it's not to get rich, I'm sorry to say.
02:20You're not going to get rich working for the city of New York, but what you will do is play
02:24a key role,
02:25I think, in the most exciting economic justice agency in the United States today.
02:30We are bringing on some of the best people, bringing the most exciting cases.
02:34We have a mayor that's made the largest investment in consumer and worker protection in the history of New York
02:40City.
02:41This is a really exciting time to be a New York City government, especially with what's happened in Washington,
02:46with the pullback of federal agencies when it comes to protecting consumers and workers.
02:51DCWP and New York City will be in the lead.
02:54So if you are excited about shaping public policy so that it serves working people instead of just tech oligarchs,
03:01come apply, nyc.gov slash jobs, we are hiring.
03:04I was going to ask you, just kind of hit on it, with the implosion of CFPB and some of
03:09this enforcement kind of going away,
03:11I remember before I left DC, I had a fight with a gym chain about a fee that went very
03:17viral because everybody had experienced this.
03:19And somebody said, well, like, report them, and there was no one to report them to.
03:23Is the hope that cities like New York and maybe state and local governments will step in and try to
03:28fill this void?
03:29It's not only the hope.
03:30It is what we are doing every day.
03:32I'll give you the example you mentioned, gyms that make it hard to cancel.
03:36The FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, where I used to work, has largely given up the fight against these illegal
03:41subscription traps.
03:42New York City, in my first six months of the Mamdani administration, we banned subscription traps in New York.
03:49That rule takes effect October 1st.
03:51Starting October 1st, if there's a subscription that you can't cancel, go to nyc.gov slash consumers, and we'll fight
03:58for you.
03:59And that's sort of the broader message I have for the people of New York.
04:02Don't despair because Washington is failing.
04:04Don't despair because you think tech companies are just going to run the economy going forward.
04:09We actually have people inside New York City government committed to making the economy more fair.
04:15And thanks to this division, people who actually understand how the economy is working and can hold companies accountable for
04:22these ripoffs.
04:23You look at your agenda, what you hope to accomplish.
04:25Are there institutions or places or sectors that you're targeting first?
04:28How are you triaging what you hope to tackle in the position?
04:31Well, we know that the gig sector in particular is causing a lot of so-called gig sectors, causing a
04:37lot of harm to both consumers and workers.
04:38Because, you know, if you and I both called a ride share today, an Uber and a Lyft, let's say
04:42we were going to the same destination, I bet we would get different prices.
04:47If you and I were Uber drivers or Lyft drivers, I'm not calling out any particular company, I bet we
04:52might get different compensation for that same ride.
04:55I think it's really important the government just doesn't say, well, that's what the companies decided is fair.
05:00We've just got to let them do it.
05:02That's basically the position the Trump administration has taken.
05:04Let's let companies regulate themselves.
05:06I think if you look at the history of tech in this country, that has not gone very well.
05:11That is why I am so committed to making sure we have people who can actually understand why different people
05:17are being charged different prices.
05:18Different drivers are being given different earnings.
05:21We need to make sure that this technology is working for consumers, for workers, rather than against them.
05:27What is the timeline for this?
05:28And where does the enforcement come in?
05:30Because it seems to me this is all well and good, but if you can't actually enforce it, those New
05:34Yorkers who just said don't lose faith are going to lose that faith pretty quickly.
05:37I think you're going to see us moving very quickly.
05:40Some of our data scientists are already in place.
05:43We are hiring a lot more.
05:44You're going to see in the weeks to come some of the most significant rulemakings and enforcement actions in the
05:50history of DCWP.
05:52Rulemakings and enforcement actions that don't fear tech, that don't fear sophisticated AI, that recognize that this is now part
06:00of our economy, and work to make sure that it is actually working for people and working for consumers.
06:04So you're going to see follow-up very quickly.
06:06You formerly in this government, Lena Kahn, who is at the FTC up here in New York, I gather advising
06:11the mayor, Rohit Chopra, another person from the CFPB, who I believe is doing the same.
06:16Fair to kind of assess this as you taking best practices from what you all learned in Washington and bringing
06:20it here.
06:21How do you see the kind of line of continuity between your tenure during the Biden administration and what we
06:25see here today?
06:26Absolutely.
06:27I worked for Rohit Chopra for a number of years when he was at the FTC.
06:30We called out how the Facebook settlement did not put real restrictions on Facebook stealing people's data, and I think
06:37we were proven right.
06:38I worked for Lena Kahn for four years.
06:41We built an office of technology that allowed us to bring groundbreaking cases against Rite Aid for using biased facial
06:47recognition, Meta, TikTok, and many other companies.
06:51Historically, that is not a role that New York City has played, but that really is going to change.
06:56As I've said before, the DC cavalry is not coming to save us.
07:00We need to arm up right here in New York City to make sure that the kind of ripoffs we
07:05are seeing nationwide don't happen in the five boroughs.
07:08We've only got about 30 seconds.
07:10Can you give us any concrete examples where you think New Yorkers are going to see this first?
07:14Hotels, rideshare, food delivery.
07:17Is there anywhere you're looking at that you think they're going to see fairly soon?
07:20I think where you're going to see the quickest result, these hidden fees.
07:25If New Yorkers are getting – if you're seeing fees snuck onto your bill, tell us about it.
07:31We're not only going to look at your receipt.
07:33Thanks to the data scientists we have, we're going to look across the company's portfolio.
07:37Make sure that these junk fees are not only not being charged, but that we can hold these companies accountable
07:44and protect New Yorkers from these everyday ripoffs.
07:46Thank you very much.
07:47Appreciate seeing you here.
07:48I'm the Commissioner of the Department of Consumer and Work Protection here.
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