00:00Joining me now is another newsmaker, Dr. Arvind Gupta. He's the head of Digital India Foundation.
00:05Dr. Gupta, the Prime Minister has flagged the weaponization of technology as a global
00:10threat. And in the same forum, Xi Jinping offers BRICS Nation's open source AI as an olive branch.
00:18So is China's offer a genuine course correction or a calculated move
00:22to set the terms of global AI while the world debates the danger?
00:31Okay, Maria, depending on the amount of time we have, thank you for first of all having me on the
00:36show. But the question that you asked, Prime Minister Modi, as always, whether it was the G20
00:42summit or the global AI impact summit in India, or now the BRICS has maintained the non-weaponization
00:52of AI and should be a core fundamental principle as we progress on this frontier journey of AI
00:59development. But what we have fundamentally believed, and why the PM talks about UPI
01:06and the Aadhaar and the vast digital public infrastructure that India has built, is because
01:12the models are very different. And that is a fundamental thing that we need to understand.
01:16The Chinese model has always been technology for surveillance. The American model has been
01:23technology for capitalism. The Indian model, which the PM really champions, is the technology
01:28for development model, the humanity model. Now, when you take this into context and put AI
01:35also in this three different paradigms of technology, the Chinese are offering this olive branch or
01:44whatever the word we want to use. I think they just lack the trust. We, for example, in India,
01:52don't use any Chinese technology because they were found to be using our data and their platforms
01:59against our own national interest. So this Chinese offer of open sourcing, there is nothing called
02:09free in technology. Please keep this in mind. I mean, this open source models exist. You can use them.
02:14But because the Chinese system lacks the trust, I think this offer is, you know, it's not a great
02:23offer. There's nothing great that the Chinese premier has said. I would say that the Prime Minister
02:29Modi's statement and his request for non-weaponization, whether it's of critical minerals,
02:35which are critical to the hardware and the AI infrastructure, or to the big tech during the
02:40the AI summit in India in February, is the way to go. And suddenly, what happened in February,
02:48six months now, right now, what we are seeing is the big tech is also realizing, suddenly,
02:54that there is a need for them to also agree on this non-weaponization. And if you remember in
03:01February, open AI and Anthropic didn't even want to shake hands. So, you know, the world, six months is a
03:08long time in the AI world, and it has come there. So, what we, you know, professed in February,
03:13the world is realizing it was more visionary than they could agree of all.
03:19Okay. Dr. Adwin Gupta, even as, as you said rightly, even as world leaders,
03:24one of AI's dangers, here is President Donald Trump trying to downplay the risks.
03:31On the other hand, you have Silicon Valley CEOs quietly talking of slowing down.
03:35So, is Washington out of step with the rest of the world? Or is this more of a big techs,
03:43just saying it, slow down, talk just to cover that they are falling behind China?
03:52See, the American models have a very big lead right now. And the American AI ecosystem is far ahead
04:00of China. The clear, you know, there is a clear race going on in the use of AI for economic
04:08development
04:09and just superiority, human superiority. But, you know, it's a big race. Nobody's going to let go of
04:15this. While Donald Trump is making these statements, I think they also have a vested interest. They have
04:24this large Stargate project, where they've committed investments of half a trillion dollar, 500 billion US.
04:30So, there's a lot of money at play. But eventually, Silicon Valley is realizing that there is a,
04:38there is dangers in this. Now, Silicon Valley is no, it's the most ironical people talking about
04:46dangers in this, because they developed the technology without the seatbelts.
04:50And now you have cars running across these highways, and at such large speeds, that the
04:57seatbelts have become necessary. And when we were saying put the seatbelts and invent the seatbelts
05:01and invent, make sure the seatbelts are on, in an analogy to the to high speed car driving on
05:09highways, they'd never listen to it. So I think there is, there is, the Silicon Valley is at least
05:16talking a little bit, which is good. President Trump saying there is no danger of weaponization,
05:22he's protecting his national interest, which is AI superiority that the America already has by
05:29doing anything else, they're going to, they're going to probably slow down a little bit. So I think
05:34it's, these are all contravening forces at work. Clarity is not there. And I don't think so the
05:42AI race is going to stop. It's, it's, it's progressing. Um, a few, few people are disgruntled,
05:48people are leaving. Um, and my question always is, if you, you know, you've been doing this for
05:53last couple of years, why didn't you leave then? You know, this is not suddenly a wake up call that
05:58they are getting. Uh, so, uh, it is, uh, this is, this is a very, very, um, real danger that
06:04we face.
06:05Um, but also on the other hand, if you build the guardrails, make this responsible and safe use of
06:11AI as a guiding principle, uh, which is what India's model has been, uh, it works for everybody. It
06:17works for humanity. It works for development. All right, Dr. Adwin Gupta, pleasure. Thank you so much
06:23for your time.
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