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Europe Today : le chef de l'économie de l'UE Dombrovskis sur Euronews, 25 ans après le 11-Septembre

25 ans après les attentats du 11 septembre, enquête sur la façon dont l'événement a changé l'Amérique et le monde, en entretiens exclusifs avec Valdis Dombrovskis, Espen Barth Eide et l'ambassadeur du Brésil auprès de l'Union européenne (UE) Pedro Miguel da Costa e Silva.

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00:00Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
00:30...as America came under attack.
00:32Nearly 3,000 people were killed on September 11, 2001, in an event that changed history.
00:39Today, the United States and the world remember the victims and honor their memory.
00:44But the legacy of 9-11 still shapes our politics, our security and our world.
00:50A quarter of a century later, we look back at the day that changed everything.
00:54French President Macron and EU Commission President von der Leyen called on Europe to strengthen its space industry at the
01:02International Space Summit in Paris.
01:04Macron described Europe's space sector as fragile and emphasized the need to bolster its capabilities, calling for shared governance of
01:13the industry.
01:14Von der Leyen emphasized the crucial role space plays, both in terms of scientific exploration, but also defense, pointing to
01:22Russia's war in Ukraine.
01:23And, as Russia's war in Ukraine intensifies, Moscow's aggression is spilling beyond its borders, from drone incursions to suspected cable
01:32cuts.
01:33EU News' EU correspondent, Angeles Kuchin, spoke exclusively to Kirillou Budanov, head of the office of the President of Ukraine,
01:42at the Riga Conference,
01:43asking whether the Baltic States are getting the Russian threats right.
01:49Currently, it is not only the Baltic States, but also, for example, Central European countries that are facing certain aggressive
01:56forms of hybrid threats from the Russian Federation in the form of targeted operations.
02:02That was Kirillou Budanov speaking to Angeles Kuchin.
02:05And now let's go live to Riga, where EU News' EU editor Maria Tadeo is standing by for us.
02:12Good morning, Maria. What's the latest there?
02:16Good morning, Stefan.
02:18And you played those words from Budanov, the head of the office of the President of Ukraine,
02:22telling a panel discussion here in Riga that if you are European and you don't want to deal with Russia,
02:27then deal with Ukraine.
02:29They have paid, quote, in treasure and blood, also pointed to that wartime experience.
02:34A lot more coy when asked directly whether he believed an attack on the Baltics is likely and coming.
02:41To that point, I spoke with the Commissioner for the Economy, Valdez Zembrovskis, himself from Latvia.
02:47We spoke about European security, but also funding for Ukraine, where he told me at this stage,
02:53the EU and the IMF are still crunching the numbers to figure out what Ukraine will need.
02:58Look into that funding gap going into 2027. Let's take a look.
03:03We're having here eastern border with Russia, and we see that Russia is an aggressor state,
03:10waging full-scale war in Ukraine and openly talking about invading other countries.
03:16So we cannot be complacent. We need to do preparedness.
03:19We need to have stronger also EU and NATO presence in the region to have also a credible deterrent against
03:27any Russia's plan.
03:29In a sense, the stronger and the more credible deterrents will be, the less chance there will be of any
03:34Russian aggression.
03:36When you look at the situation now, are you more concerned that you were, let's say, before the summer,
03:41because there was a letter that you also did sign with a number of other commissioners from from like countries,
03:45you say in the picture has deteriorated. Is that how you feel when you come here?
03:50You say the perception of a threat is not just a perception. There's something that has changed.
03:56Well, we see no signs of Russia willing to engage in any meaningful peace process.
04:04What we see is actually the contrary. Russia is ramping up its military production.
04:10It's strengthening its military-industrial complex. There are talks on mobilization of Russia.
04:15And the question is, where all this weaponry and all those troops will march?
04:20So you say you don't believe at this point that the war can end at real negotiations this year?
04:25Well, I very much wish so. But currently, we do not see any credible signs of engagement from the Russian
04:33side.
04:33And that takes us to the support and the money question for the Ukrainians.
04:38It is clear now that it's the EU that is going to have to really do the heavy lifting here.
04:43And the bill is not smaller. It's getting bigger.
04:45You had conversations with your Ukrainian counterparts, the prime minister, too. What do you see?
04:51Indeed, we had these discussions with our Ukrainian counterparts, including myself with Prime Minister Koretsky earlier this week.
04:59So we are now, in a sense, in strong engagement with Ukrainian authorities, finance ministry to, in a sense, to
05:08pin down exact financing needs, to understand what exactly is driving those financing needs and to seek solutions.
05:15And you mentioned the payments and this loan. There was a loan that was essentially paid out of pocket by
05:21the European countries.
05:22They agreed this was going to be two years. We heard the president of Ukraine saying the payments will have
05:26to be accelerated.
05:27There's now an open question about upfront payments. Is that something that you think is justified?
05:33And do you worry what was budgeted for two years may not last more than a year?
05:39Well, first of all, we need to find out exactly these additional financing needs and then discuss with the Ukrainian
05:47authorities how we are financing them.
05:51They are still open questions. We have this engagement. We do it also in coordination with IMF.
05:58But then the question is that already in this Ukraine support loan regulation, we foresaw the possibility to do some
06:09adjustments of this funding if this is necessary.
06:11So such a possibility is foreseen.
06:14To that, I have to ask you some final question. The idea of the Russian frozen assets.
06:18We see there's now a push by a number of European countries to revive the idea. Would you be in
06:24favor?
06:24Well, from European Commission side, we are certainly ready to engage in this discussion.
06:30As you know, already last year, we came forward with a concrete legislative proposal to use those assets.
06:36Unfortunately, member states were not able to agree on this, mainly because of resistance of Belgium.
06:42But we certainly are ready to re-engage those discussions, seek those additional reassurances which may be needed and to
06:50help find a way forward.
06:51What is it going to take for the Commission to put it back on the table?
06:54A signal from Belgium, the French, the Italians, the ECB saying they're willing to explore it now?
06:59What will it take?
07:01Well, I cannot now give, you know, kind of exact triggers, but as I said, we are ready to engage
07:08in this discussion and to put this question back on table.
07:14Maria Taddeo there speaking to Valdes Dombrowskis in Riga.
07:19Tensions have risen between Brussels and Brazil after the European Commission suspended imports of Brazilian meat and other food products
07:27over concerns about antimicrobial substances used in production.
07:32The Brazilian authorities have expressed indignation at the lack of dialogue before the measures were adopted.
07:38Our correspondent, Marek Gwynn, sat down with Brazil's ambassador to the EU, Pedro Miguel da Costa e Silva.
07:45She asked him whether he believed the two sides could strike a deal to reverse the ban, and if not,
07:51whether Brazil could consider countermeasures.
07:54We believe in dialogue. We believe in cooperation.
07:57We are one of the biggest providers of agri-food products in the world.
08:03We have a lot of quality, so we are very confident in what we send to the European market.
08:08I'm very confident and hopeful that we will be back on the list soon on the first phase for some
08:15of the products, I think poultry and honey.
08:19And I hope that soon after the rest of the products.
08:22Do you fear that this episode could have somehow emboldened those people who have been against the EU-Mercosur deal,
08:32which is a trade deal between the EU and Brazil and other Latin American countries,
08:35that it could have encouraged them somehow to see that there might be a way to prevent these kind of
08:42imports from coming into the European market?
08:45You have touched on a very sensitive point, because I do fear that this episode and this issue is going
08:56to be distorted.
08:57People are going to say, oh, Brazil does not comply with our regulations.
09:01Brazil, Brazilian products do not have the same quality.
09:04They are a risk.
09:05And none of this is true, because if you look objectively at what we're talking about,
09:11in no way has the EU said that our products have a problem in terms of quality.
09:17The important thing is to make sure that this doesn't get distorted,
09:21that people who are against the agreement and people who are against Brazil being here and competing with us
09:27will distort this and transform this into, again, another part of this disinformation campaign against Brazil,
09:35that we do not have quality, that we do not comply.
09:38And all this, I think, does a lot of harm to the EU-Brasil relation.
09:44And it also creates a problem in terms of the EU-Mercosur agreement.
09:49And if you cannot come to resolution through these talks and the ban remains in place,
09:56do you fear it could somehow undermine or jeopardize the broader EU-Mercosur deal in any way?
10:03I hope that we can quickly solve this, because if you look at the products that are involved,
10:10these were sensitive products that were the object of quotas.
10:14I was one of the negotiators of the agreement, and I know how much we paid in terms of,
10:19if you want, for these quotas, in terms of the negotiation.
10:23So if we stop exporting bovine meat, poultry, honey, we are losing.
10:29There is a reversal of expectations of what we thought the agreement was going to be for us.
10:34So there is frustration on the part of the Brazilian producers.
10:39And I don't want to not respond to what you asked me about countermeasures or whatever.
10:44That's not how we operate.
10:46We prefer dialogue, we prefer cooperation.
10:50But if we need to go down another road, we will.
10:55But this is not the time to speculate about that, not to anticipate that.
11:02Brazil's ambassador Pedro Miguel da Costa e Silva speaking to Marek Gwynn.
11:07Let's go back to Maria Tadeo in Riga now.
11:10Maria, you spoke to Norway's foreign minister, SP Bart Eide.
11:14Tell us all about it.
11:18Yeah, I did, Stefan.
11:20And this is an interview in a week in which 11 countries, including Norway,
11:24but also the United Kingdom and France, have announced sanctions on Israeli settlements in the West Bank.
11:30Norway's foreign minister telling me, quote, this is fully justified.
11:34He also said Israel should now listen and change course.
11:37But added, some very strong words,
11:40this is the most far-right government in the history of Israel.
11:43Israel has now taken the country in a very dangerous path.
11:46Let's take a look.
11:48It is absolutely not true that this in any way is a reward for terrorism.
11:52This is a strong signal of support for all those Palestinians who want to have a decent Palestinian state
11:58that signed up to, once upon a time, to the agreement that there should be a two-state solution.
12:03These are the people who rejected violence.
12:05The Palestinian Authority has nothing to do with Hamas, who is actually their enemy.
12:11And this is a support to the moderate Palestinians.
12:13But we cannot see this extreme settler activity where you have violence against people, against livestock,
12:21against houses, you know, really removing every possibility of life in large parts of what is, you know,
12:29legally Palestinian land to promote settlements.
12:31And I'm very happy that the United Kingdom and Canada and France and several other countries
12:37have come to the place where countries like Norway and Spain already were, a long time ago.
12:43So this was a strong statement to Israel.
12:45They should take it seriously.
12:46You speak about the UK.
12:48The reaction from this rally has been to say,
12:50you need to close down the consulate within 30 days from Jerusalem.
12:54To me, that really doesn't sound like a country that is going to change course.
13:00The Netanyahu government is the most far-right government in Israel's history.
13:06Elections are coming.
13:07Let's see what the Israelis choose in this election.
13:10But that government, in my view, has driven Israel into a very dangerous place.
13:15I think that because I very much care about Israel, I'm inspired by Israel.
13:20I know Israel quite well.
13:21Just like I am inspired by the Palestinian community, I think the only way to live normal,
13:27peaceful life in that region is that they agree to have a two-state solution to delineate
13:32what is Palestinian, what is Israeli.
13:33And then the Israeli state as a Jewish homeland can continue.
13:38So I believe that what we are doing, although it might seem rough for some Israelis right now,
13:42is also a commitment to peace for Israel itself.
13:45But just as a final point, so this is clear.
13:47You mentioned the election.
13:47Obviously, it will be the Israeli people who will have to decide who is.
13:50Like in any democracy.
13:51Who leads Israel.
13:52But do you hope, whatever the outcome, that there will be a change, of course,
13:57because it does not look like from the ground, as it stands, that much of this will prompt action.
14:03So it's not my job to tell other countries who to elect that for the Israelis.
14:07But I do hope that whatever happens there, Israel at one point understands that they've been on a very dangerous
14:14track.
14:14Wouldn't that the Yehudin government that's possible?
14:16That Israel, whatever government understands, that they have been losing so much support.
14:22They had tremendous support after 7th of October across the world.
14:27There was a lot of understanding for the need to defend against terrorist attacks.
14:32But the way that they have done this, you know, with more than 70,000 people killed, including 20,000
14:38children,
14:39the total destruction of most of Gaza, it's a blatant violation of international law,
14:43of international human rights law, of international humanitarian law.
14:46And the problem has been that too many countries have been careful in criticizing Israel
14:51because you were so easily attacked by being anti-Semitic, which is a very...
14:55That has been a factor, you think?
14:57I think that has led to less daring positions.
15:01And since we started this interview with Ukraine, I want to say that the West has been very firm and
15:08clear and good
15:09on saying that Ukraine is the victim of a Russian aggression.
15:13But we would be more credible if we stood up for international law everywhere, against all people, you know, all
15:21times.
15:22And I think by being so wobbly and so unclear and so unprincipled in the dealing with the Middle East,
15:29I think that's undermined the credibility of the West.
15:35Maria Thaddeo in Riga, thank you very much.
15:3925 years.
15:4025 years already.
15:43I'm sure you still remember where you were on that day.
15:46A quarter century after the attacks of September 11, 2001, the images remain etched into the world's collective memory.
15:55Nearly 3,000 people were killed in New York, Washington and near Shanksville, Pennsylvania that day.
16:02A traumatic experience that changed America and reshaped global politics.
16:07So, 25 years later, what is the legacy of 9-11 and what lessons should we still be learning?
16:14Joining me now to discuss this is Anthony Gardner, former U.S. Ambassador to the European Union during the second
16:21Obama administration.
16:22Good morning, sir. Great to have you on the show.
16:25Good morning. Good to see you again, Stefan.
16:27So, how fundamentally did 9-11 change the United States and did it change the world just as profoundly?
16:36I think it did.
16:38I remember where I was that day.
16:40Like many of us, I was in a conference room in the office in London.
16:44We were all called down to a room where the television was on and we felt shock.
16:49Of course, we felt anger, but we also felt unity.
16:53We were a very united country then.
16:56Today, unfortunately, we're a very polarized country, which, of course, is a shame.
16:59But I think to answer your question, there are probably three or so big takeaways for me.
17:04One of them is the power of asymmetric warfare.
17:09We saw what damage a small but determined radicalized group of, well, terrorists can do with few tools at their
17:19disposal against a much more powerful force.
17:22And we're seeing that again today, all these years later.
17:25We're seeing it, of course, in the Middle East.
17:29We're seeing it in the Persian Gulf, where Iran is still continuing to inflict damage against the United States after
17:38taking a beating.
17:39We're seeing the power of asymmetric warfare in Ukraine, where the Ukrainians are holding out against a much larger force.
17:47But another takeaway is that, you know, military force is not enough to defeat terrorism.
17:54The idea that we can defeat terrorism just using power is, I think, misguided.
17:58We need financial and economic means.
18:01We need diplomacy.
18:02We need culture and so forth.
18:03And the other part of what makes sense is that AI is going to make asymmetric warfare even more relevant.
18:09And very quickly, the second takeaway for me is that the United States just can't retreat into a cocoon.
18:16We may lose interest in the world, but the world is not going to lose interest in us.
18:20And the third is that, you know, in the 9-11 report, I was struck at all the information we
18:26were receiving about a possible attack.
18:28And we just didn't manage to process that information fast enough.
18:31For a generation that did not experience that day firsthand, the younger ones, why does 9-11 still matter?
18:41Well, 9-11 still matters for the young for the reasons I think I alluded to is that the world
18:47is full of risks that will affect the United States.
18:53I'm here thinking about, you know, climate change or migration or various types of pandemics and so forth.
19:02The idea that we can retreat into our own borders is simply wrong because all of those risks that have
19:07a transnational impact will have an effect on the United States.
19:12And that's why we need the tools I mentioned, not just military.
19:16And if there is one lesson from 9-11 that political leaders should remember today, what is it?
19:24Well, I think as cooperation, we forget that this was a good example of how countries came together.
19:33Our allies immediately expressed support for us.
19:38And, of course, it was the United States principally that defeated that threat and captured Osama bin Laden.
19:46But allies came to our aid at that point.
19:50And we need to remember that we need allies to defend against these kind of threats in the future.
19:56All right, Ambassador Gardner, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
20:00And that's it for today.
20:02Enjoy your weekend.
20:03I'm Stefan Grobe.
20:04See you soon.
20:07Bye.
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