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00:01All right, Swin, thank you for being here.
00:03Happy to be here.
00:04As I said, I think you have just an incredible resume, both on and off the court,
00:10basketball Hall of Famer, studio analyst, and former executive.
00:13I wonder which one of those experiences just gave you the most knowledge about sports?
00:21I don't think there is one that I can just point to.
00:25I think for me, I've really been blessed to have worked on every side of the business when it comes
00:31to sports.
00:32And I think now being back on the media side, being able to be an executive, being a player,
00:38you get to see all the different stakeholders and also an investor in the WNBA.
00:42You get to see the different perspectives of it all.
00:45On the broadcasting side, because that's what you're doing currently at Amazon,
00:48what has that brought you that maybe you didn't know about before?
00:53I mean, on the player's side, of course, when you're playing, you're talking to media.
00:56But now discussing players is a completely different issue.
00:59Well, it's changed a little bit.
01:01So when I came out of college, out of UConn, I spent a lot of my career not only just
01:06playing overseas,
01:09playing WNBA, which shout out to all the women.
01:11They don't have to do that now if they don't want to.
01:14But I also was able to do USA Basketball on a number of different things.
01:19So now coming back into it, celebrating 30 years of WNBA, it's changed a lot.
01:25Because now we have more players that are involved, like Prime, where the streaming,
01:30the storytelling has just taken off to a whole other level.
01:33And so when this opportunity was presented to me, I was really excited because I felt like
01:37bringing that experience of what I have to the table and being able to connect with this new generation
01:44was something that I've thoroughly enjoyed this summer.
01:47I'm going to put you on the spot.
01:48What is your favorite moment of the season so far?
01:51My favorite moment of the season?
01:54We've had a bunch.
01:55But I will say I was actually in Chicago for W All-Star.
01:59And for a while, you know, I spent six years on the NBA side as an executive,
02:03and I didn't really have the opportunity to experience it in this capacity.
02:08But being in Chicago, having to sell out all the eyes being there, the legends being there,
02:13the younger players, and seeing that camaraderie, that was probably one of my favorite moments
02:17because it really told me the growth of where the WNBA is going is real.
02:21If you all have not gone to the WNBA All-Star weekend, it is incredible.
02:24I didn't get a chance to go this year.
02:26But last year, I believe in Indianapolis, the WNBA players, it just turned into such a big party.
02:31I think they were calling it Indiana Vegas.
02:34Well, keep this in mind.
02:35And shout out to also any of the brands that are also in the room.
02:38You talk about investments.
02:39It is no longer where you just show up and we're playing the game.
02:42You are showing up.
02:43There's activations that are happening, engagements.
02:45We even, with my company, we even had an activation as well.
02:48And so when you think about what it means, we've always seen it at NBA All-Star, NFL,
02:54all the different things.
02:55Well, now the W, they're seeing true investment in not just showing up for the game,
03:00but the activation in reaching their audience as well.
03:04And so you brought up your business.
03:06I attended your conference, She's Got Time, in Vegas last summer.
03:10Tell us about what it is.
03:11Yes.
03:12So She's Got Time, I started.
03:14When I went into the Basketball Hall of Fame, one of the things that I prayed on
03:17and was thinking about is all the time, we all know this, we're execs,
03:20we're people in the room, young people are always asking you,
03:23how can you mentor me?
03:24How can you be an advocate?
03:25And I wanted to create something because I saw an invisible ecosystem.
03:29So She's Got Time is our lifestyle and media company.
03:33We focus on digital storytelling.
03:34We focus on our community.
03:36Right now we've launched kind of a campaign to get over 100,000 women plus on our platform
03:43because this invisible ecosystem are the women that are behind the scenes running sports.
03:48Some of you sitting in here today, you think women in sports,
03:50you think about just me because I played the game.
03:52There's the media side.
03:53There's executives.
03:55I don't care if you're an engineer in F1.
03:56I don't care if you're an attorney, if you're the brand.
04:00And so we wanted to focus on that community to build them up
04:03so that it's in parallel with what's happening with this growth in women's sports.
04:07That's beautiful.
04:08I think on that in particular, I remember going to your conference
04:12and we spoke about this in a prep call.
04:13Tommy Vincent was incredible.
04:15You had executives from the NFLPA.
04:17And it really does bring people together so that, you know,
04:19as we know in women's sports, it is more than the players.
04:22And there are plenty of people behind the scenes.
04:23And so I'm excited to see how, you know, you impact the future.
04:28And so, you were going to say something?
04:30Yeah, I was just going to say the future is not just about, you know,
04:33everybody's thinking that the future of sports is on the playing field.
04:37What they're truly missing is the economics behind it,
04:40is the people that are driving it.
04:42It's the people that are moms who are also involved in sports.
04:45It's the people who are entrepreneurs who are licensing in the business.
04:48And so when we talk to women with careers in sports and adjacent industries,
04:52we want to be holistic in thinking about it.
04:56I often think about that in particular because of the fact that we talk about NFL
05:01and NBA front offices.
05:02In the WNBA, the conversation about that is a little bit smaller.
05:05And I think it's in large part because some of these are connected to NBA teams.
05:09But I think that's going to grow, of course.
05:11With more investment in women's sports, there's going to be more analytics
05:14and more GM support and all of the things.
05:17But we would be remiss if we did not talk about your playing career.
05:21And in particular, the WNBA Players Association and the league just signed a new collective bargaining
05:26agreement that made the play.
05:28I believe it was the largest salary increase in women's sports history.
05:32You yourself went through plenty of CBA negotiations.
05:36Tell me about what your mindset was and how you stayed calm throughout what was probably
05:40very tense moments.
05:41Well, I think anybody in this room understands when you're negotiating anything,
05:47real negotiation means that when a deal was signed, you both are leaving and you don't get everything.
05:52And I think when you come in with that mindset understanding, you're going to negotiate as best
05:56you can, try to get as much as possible.
05:58But once that deal is done, you move forward.
06:01And I think I had great mentors and people in my life to really prepare me from a business
06:07standpoint not to take things personal.
06:10And so every CBA just kept building.
06:13And this one was transformative.
06:14It was very transformative where now we have women who are making over a million dollars.
06:19For me, when I played, making $56,000 at times, yeah, that was my rookie salary.
06:26Shout out to being a number two draft pick.
06:29But you dreamed about how do we get to that next stage.
06:33And that means that you go, you're knocking on doors that you may not walk through.
06:38So the doors that I knocked on or the CBAs I worked on wasn't about Swing Cash.
06:42It was about Asia Wilson, Kaitlyn Clark, Angel Reese, the players now that are able to benefit
06:48from that.
06:49So myself, the Lisa Leslie's of the world, the Teresa Witherspoon, you have to understand
06:54there's some people that are bricklayers, and then there's others that'll take it and
06:57move it forward.
06:58And so I think the women of the WNBA have always understood that.
07:01And I think that is why this league is where it is today.
07:05Not getting emotional, that has to be difficult when you see yourself valued as something.
07:09You're playing, you're investing all of this time and energy into it, and then there's
07:12a deal that maybe you're not happy with.
07:15Is that difficult to not get emotional in a moment?
07:18You know, it can be.
07:19But at the same time, if you know it's for a bigger purpose, see, the thing about it is
07:23people don't understand is why I always say this, is that having diversity of thought
07:28in your boardroom, in your meetings, amongst your team is important.
07:33Because, you know, people sometimes think when you advocate for women, that you're like,
07:37oh, this is charity.
07:38It definitely is not.
07:39It's good business.
07:40Because diversity of thought is good business.
07:43So when we're sitting there and we're doing CBAs, at the end of the day, it doesn't just
07:47benefit me.
07:48If you look right now at how many coaches are in the WNBA, we've had NBA coaches now take
07:55jobs in the WNBA.
07:57And so as the WNBA is growing, people just think and look under this mindset that it's
08:01just for the women.
08:02And we've always been advocating for the best league in the world, which it is, giving opportunity
08:07to women, but also women making sure they have a seat at the table.
08:10Great.
08:11Great.
08:11Now, again, we have to talk about WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert.
08:16On Friday, she, of course, announced she was going to resign at the end of the year.
08:20Being someone who has watched her grow this league, how do you think her legacy will be
08:25remembered when, at the end of the year, that she retires and moves on to other ventures?
08:29You know, I think what Kathy has done, and I really want to speak to this because she
08:34came in at a time, you have to also understand that we also had a pandemic, y'all, that there
08:40was a bubble that the women played in.
08:42We've also had one of the most transformative CBAs.
08:45And so from a business standpoint, what she's been able to do in transform kind of this
08:50league, and now having players making the money that they're making, having brands value
08:55and see what's possible with this league.
08:58And also, let's take it back to the valuations of these teams.
09:01We have a billion-dollar valuation on the Valkyries out there in Golden State.
09:06And so you have to just say, look, she has done an amazing job.
09:11Once upon a time, just real quick, once upon a time, I believe Mark Davis bought the Aces
09:16for less than $5 million.
09:18And in five years' time, now the Aces are one of the most valuable teams in the WNBA and
09:23are worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and that growth is incredible.
09:26Oh, absolutely.
09:27I think if you were to ask Clara and Joe here in New York with the Liberty, they would
09:33tell you the same thing.
09:35That is a hell of an investment.
09:37And so, yes, she's done an amazing job, and I think when people remember just the business
09:43Ackerman and how she was able to move this league forward, it stands, it speaks for itself.
09:47Yeah.
09:48Even just seeing the growth in terms of the number of teams as well.
09:53I mean, we're going to have 18 teams by 2030 in Philadelphia and Cleveland and Detroit.
10:01That was the one.
10:02I didn't miss any.
10:03Don't miss that Detroit one.
10:04I got two championships there now.
10:06Don't miss that one.
10:06Exactly.
10:07Exactly.
10:07So I think that is going to be really, really fun.
10:10I wonder, from your perspective, we're going to be at 18, but if there was 19-20, and you
10:17could make a decision now to place a team somewhere, where would you do it?
10:22Well, I have a little inside information.
10:25I did mention being an investor in the WNBA.
10:28Don't be afraid to give us a scoop.
10:29Don't be afraid.
10:30I'm not scooping.
10:31I'm just saying that there were a number of cities that were bidding.
10:35A lot of people did not get WNBA teams that wanted them.
10:39I think for me, being behind the scenes and even consulting on some of the teams and being
10:46able to ask questions, there were markets that had great plans.
10:49There were great plans.
10:50And so I think they're still viable.
10:51I think if you look at the Austins of the world, Nashville, those were two areas where great
10:56sports, but also do well with WNBA and women's sports.
11:01So I think for the WNBA right now, it's a pause.
11:05You have three teams that are coming in.
11:06You really need to see how that plays out, and then you continue to grow from there.
11:11I think sometimes you do a sprint, which I feel like we just did, and sometimes it's
11:17more of a slow walk, and it's a marathon.
11:18And we've reached a point of 18 teams, and the league has never had that many, so it makes
11:22perfect sense to be like, all right, let's wait for these expansion teams to get here.
11:28Going back to the commissioner job, I read a story from ESPN, and there's a couple other
11:32places as well that have thrown your name in the mix.
11:35And I wonder from your perspective, how does it feel to read something and see that your
11:40name is among the candidates or someone, a potential candidate that people are thinking
11:44of in that role as commissioner?
11:46That's very interesting.
11:48I'm one of those people very much, when I'm on this stage, I'm on this stage.
11:52When I'm off this stage, I'm a mom, I'm a CEO, I do a number of different things.
11:56I think the biggest thing for me wasn't the articles or people talking about what's the
12:01next step or who's going to be the next commissioner.
12:03It was the outpour of, like, my phone was like Christmas morning, right?
12:09And so people are texting, calling, but it wasn't about them asking me.
12:13It was about people in this business, whether they are from ownership, players, investors,
12:22just different people, NBA side, WNBA, NFL, people that I have either touched or have come
12:28in contact with me that were reaching out that I maybe hadn't even talked to in a while.
12:32That part, to me, is a bigger value than whatever somebody's talking about in the media, because
12:36regardless of where I am now and what I do next, it lets you know that how you've walked
12:42and how you've led, people value and see that.
12:44That, to me, is the real currency.
12:47Basically, you getting all the outpour of love means a lot to you that they would even
12:51think of you in that light.
12:52I don't think it's even so much love.
12:54It's pretty much more, yeah, some of it is love because they're close to me.
12:59But some of it is also people who I respect in very, you know, in different stakeholders
13:04and different businesses.
13:07That's valuable.
13:08That means that, you know, I've been able to lead and touch people in different ways
13:12that they see me in that capacity.
13:14But right now, for me, I know that that process will go on.
13:17You allow that process to happen.
13:19But thank you.
13:20I've spoke on it, and now we shall move on.
13:22Exactly.
13:24And so with that, I want to go back to, we talked expansion a little bit.
13:28Yes.
13:28But beyond expansion, what other opportunities do you think the WNBA can grow in?
13:33Globally.
13:34I think the league, for me, you talked about having 18 teams and getting there.
13:40The opportunity, what people don't understand, is for so long, women's sports and women's
13:44basketball has been at a very high level overseas.
13:47I played overseas.
13:48I played in Russia, the Czech Republic, in China, in Guangzhou, Dongguan.
13:53And so they value women's basketball in a different capacity.
13:58And when you talk about Prime, because that's what I want to talk about, working at Prime,
14:03being able to stream globally, now you're touching a different audience.
14:06Now we have to engage, because that's opportunity that you can't leave on the table.
14:11And I remember even back in the day and having conversations with David Stern, and when we
14:17were talking about programs that were launching, like Power Forward on the continent in Africa,
14:22when we were talking about going to India and making sure we were doing grassroots basketball,
14:27that wasn't just about, we wanted to be great stewards of the game.
14:32We wanted to grow the game.
14:34And you look at where the NBA is now, that investment is paying off in dividends.
14:39And so I think when we think about the women's game, yes, here at home, we have to continue
14:43to grow it.
14:43But the opportunity for this sport, if you're watching the FIBA World Cup right now, shout
14:48out to Team USA.
14:49Let's go.
14:50But the opportunities, I think, are immense there.
14:52Where would you have liked to play?
14:54We're seeing the NBA play a lot of games international.
14:57Kathy has mentioned that she would like to see the WNBA do something similar.
15:01There's a bunch of different countries out there that, of course, NBA is also doing a
15:05EuroLeague that they're in the process of building.
15:06But if you could play somewhere, Italy, France, England, where would you have liked to play?
15:12You're asking a woman not in places we want to go and play and shop and have a good time.
15:18Look, as someone also who was on an NBA team and I had to go and go to Australia because
15:25we were taking a team down there for the preseason, there are a lot of logistics that go on.
15:29We don't just show up and play basketball out of the country.
15:33It is, you have to think about the timing in the season, when you do it, having great partners.
15:38And so I think it makes more sense to go to Europe first.
15:42But I can tell you right now, even from my NBA visit when I was down in Australia, they're
15:47chomping at the bit to see WNBA teams down there.
15:51And that's why you see some of these WNBA players in the offseason that are taking these
15:55trips with brands and engaging in these communities.
15:57So for me, I think the first step probably would be in Europe.
16:00But you have to get the analytics, the data behind it.
16:02And you have to really see what makes sense.
16:04Because players' health and the play for them, that has to be number one.
16:08And everything else comes after that.
16:10Something that just, you triggered something in my mind.
16:12I remember in the Paris Olympics, the WNBA players have just dominated the Olympics over
16:19the last 30 years.
16:20And that game between France and the U.S. was very, very competitive.
16:23I wonder what you think of the impact that the current WNBA players are having globally
16:28for the LA-28 Olympics and the competition that's going to occur in SoCal.
16:32Listen, the growth of the game, when we think about it, is not just here.
16:36Every country has been chasing the U.S.
16:39Now, the U.S. has been dominant.
16:40But because of the programs that they have where they get their players into the system,
16:46our grassroots, we have to do better here in the U.S.
16:48I think it's something every commissioner's talked about when it comes to how we have to
16:52start getting better grassroots programs and fundamentals.
16:55But overseas, they are set.
16:58They have a system, an ecosystem in place.
17:01And that's why they're able to get players developed.
17:03Now, we are still, I think, at the top when it comes to the talent pool.
17:08But yes, all those other countries are right there.
17:11We're wrapping here.
17:12I want to go back to WNBA All-Star because, as you said, walking around Indianapolis in
17:17particular, I remember seeing State Farm everywhere.
17:19And so from your perspective, if there was a Mount Rushmore of brands that you would like
17:23to partner with or would have liked to partner with when you were playing, Signature Shoes,
17:29State Farm and Insurance, cars, automotive, who would those have been?
17:35Man, I took so many meetings on deals I didn't get that I see girls getting out, and I'm like,
17:40yes.
17:42That's a beautiful perspective because sometimes that can bring out the opposite, which is
17:45like, I should have had that.
17:46So that's nice.
17:47Yeah.
17:47No, no, no.
17:48No, that's just not my personality.
17:50I think for me, I would have liked to, I would talk about the brands we see now.
17:56Okay.
17:56I love to see in the State Forms.
17:58I love the P&Gs of the world.
18:00I love seeing Angel Reese walk down in Victoria's Secrets.
18:03I modeled in high school, and I always thought like, oh my God, like, Tyra Banks, I want to
18:07be there.
18:08And to see a WNBA player walk down there, amazing.
18:12I think Kaitlyn Clark right now having Signature Shoes, Aja Wilson Signature Shoes, commercials,
18:17all these things.
18:19I will say this.
18:20When I played, I wore a Nike brand, and I remember when I transitioned over to wearing
18:27Jordans, and I was a sneakerhead while playing.
18:29Okay.
18:29And I knew culturally that I was expressing myself through shoes, and that was for me.
18:35If I would have had a Signature Shoes, there were a couple of shoes.
18:38We had like P.E.'s.
18:39Sure.
18:39Shout out to LeBron.
18:40I had a bunch of those.
18:41Great.
18:41But I would say any brand that not just, any brand that doesn't want to just give their
18:47money, but they want to engage and activate, you should be in women's sports right now.
18:50Because the value in how these women show up, they show up properly for your brand, and
18:55they engage their audience in more.
18:57And so I would like to see all the brands up there if we can get them.
19:01I think the cash money ones as a sneaker would have sold.
19:04Ooh, I like that.
19:05It would have gone crazy.
19:07Maybe we'll get a colorway of someone else's signature sneaker paying homage someday.
19:11You know what?
19:12Shout out to whoever liked to do that.
19:14Ladies and gentlemen, Swim Cash, Basketball Hall of Famer, and Prime Video Analyst, thank
19:19you for joining us.
19:20Thank you so much.
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