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02:24that we're getting much closer to that confrontation.
02:26I think we've known for a long time
02:28that we were facing a threat coming from Russia.
02:31And by the way, we just need to listen
02:33to the constant questioning of European security,
02:36of the European security architecture
02:38coming from the leaders in the Kremlin.
02:41So I think the most important thing is stay calm,
02:45stay the course, continue to invest
02:46in our security and defence,
02:48continue the support for Ukraine,
02:49continue the pressure and the economic pressure
02:53that we're putting on Russia.
02:55You can see, by the way,
02:57what's happening on the battlefield
02:59with Ukrainians showing incredible ingeniosity
03:03and innovation on the battlefield with drones.
03:05You can see the success of the long-range strikes.
03:08They're bringing also the war to Russia
03:10with the impact that it's having,
03:12including on the Russian people.
03:13And, you know, a few weeks ago,
03:15we had this US assessment that it was possible,
03:17more closer, that the Kremlin might target NATO in some way
03:22in some small way
03:23that may require an Article 5 response
03:26because up until now it's been below Article 5.
03:30In that case, let's say a part of Estonia
03:33was targeted in a very specific way.
03:35Do you think NATO would be unified enough
03:38to respond directly?
03:40Would the United States be behind them?
03:42When you look at the discussions we've had
03:46with the United States over the last year,
03:49you can see that the US is in NATO.
03:51We had a successful NATO summit, actually, this year.
03:54We see all the members of NATO
03:57increasing their defense spending,
03:58which I think is good for the alliance.
04:01It's also good to boast of the European pillar of NATO.
04:04This is something we support.
04:05If you want a more balanced,
04:07a more mature security relationship
04:09where Europeans can take ownership
04:11of their own security and defense,
04:12this is something that the US presidents
04:14have been demanding.
04:16But the truth is,
04:16this is also something that we want.
04:17So we should read the writing on the wall,
04:21draw the conclusions from this,
04:22but at the same time,
04:23continue to work with our American partners.
04:25Look at what we did this year,
04:27the G7 where President Trump was invited
04:29and then the dinner in Versailles.
04:31We've seen, I think, a good reconvergence,
04:34realignment on the question of Ukraine,
04:36announcements from the United States
04:38on the production of patriots
04:40on their license.
04:40But that hasn't happened to me.
04:41The problem is that was a big getaway
04:44from the NATO summit,
04:45but it hasn't emerged.
04:46But let's be honest.
04:47We're in a different place
04:48than we were just a year ago,
04:49for example, when it comes to Ukraine.
04:51President Zelenskyy was in Washington recently
04:53for a visit that I think was successful.
04:54So once again, I think the best thing
04:57you can do in life is focus on what you control.
05:01And this is why I'm talking about the efforts
05:03that Europeans are undertaking
05:04for their own security and their own defense
05:06and then continue the work
05:07that we do with the United States.
05:09The Strait of Hormuz
05:10is obviously something
05:11that the Europeans were not involved in
05:13in terms of the Israeli-U.S. war in Iran.
05:15But can the Europeans do anything
05:17to intervene or to help this situation?
05:21Because it has such an impact globally,
05:23but also in particular in Europe
05:24because we get so much gas and oil
05:26through that strait.
05:27We said very clearly
05:28that when it comes to the situation in Iran
05:30and the Strait of Hormuz,
05:31we were looking for de-escalation
05:32of the conflict that can create the conditions
05:35after the war to have an international coalition
05:40where France will take its part
05:42to support the freedom of navigation
05:44in the Strait of Hormuz.
05:46And then what's really important afterwards,
05:49and this is what was agreed, by the way,
05:51at the time in Versailles,
05:53is to set the condition for diplomacy
05:57to deal with the Iranian nuclear program,
06:00which is a security threat for the entire region.
06:03So we can't, there's no influence there
06:05for the actual de-escalation part.
06:06That just has to happen
06:07between the parties that are involved, really, though.
06:09Well, I mean, once again, you know,
06:11this is not a war that was started by Europeans.
06:13We will be ready to take our part, really,
06:15to lead to freedom of navigation
06:18and to diplomacy to handle this nuclear issue.
06:21So the frozen Russian assets,
06:24most of them are held, as we know,
06:25in Euroclear, in Belgium.
06:27France came to the position, after a while,
06:30that we should be using them to pay for Ukraine.
06:32It shouldn't be up to European taxpayers.
06:34Is that still your position?
06:35We asked the Commission to look,
06:36especially technically,
06:38on what we could do with them
06:39because this is where, you know,
06:41both technically and legally,
06:43we could not find unanimity and consensus.
06:46And it is clear that these assets
06:48will remain where they are
06:50as long as there's still the Russian war
06:51of aggression against Ukraine ongoing
06:52and Russia refuses to pay reparations.
06:55So we're open to having, you know,
06:57the debate on what to do next with these assets.
07:00Ceuta is another issue
07:02because migration, once again,
07:03being instrumentalized,
07:04something that's been happening
07:05for the last few years,
07:06but again, has been escalating.
07:08Do you think that Spain
07:09was given the right amount of solidarity
07:10by the European Union,
07:12by the Commission and by member states?
07:14Well, we have been in support of Spain.
07:15Yeah.
07:16And I think the Spanish authorities
07:18have clearly taken the measures
07:20to be able to respond to this situation
07:23despite the emergency
07:25and the dramatic humanitarian nature
07:28of this crisis.
07:30Look, I'm absolutely convinced
07:32that the best way to deal
07:33with these extraordinary complex issues
07:35of immigration
07:36is to do it through European cooperation.
07:38But do you think, though,
07:39that Spain was given a hard time unnecessarily?
07:43Within moments of the whole thing happening,
07:45barely, you know,
07:46Italy had suspended unilaterally Spain from Schengen.
07:50As I said,
07:51this is not the approach
07:52that was taken by France.
07:53Yeah, indeed.
07:53Do you think it was a bit out of bounds?
07:56Well, what I can tell you
07:57is that France has shown solidarity with Spain
07:59and that I think Spain has been effective
08:02in answering this crisis.
08:04You have a big election next year.
08:06And, you know,
08:07for the past two or three election cycles,
08:09we've been saying this,
08:09but this even is even more pivotal, let's say.
08:13First of all,
08:14are you concerned about interference in the election?
08:17You know,
08:18France has been a major target
08:19for foreign disinformation and interference.
08:22We've seen episodes,
08:23remember,
08:24when President Macron was attacked
08:26on a video
08:27when he was going on the train to Ukraine.
08:29the rule should be very clear.
08:30What's illegal in the real world
08:32should be illegal in the virtual world.
08:34And this is the criteria
08:35that presides in these instruments.
08:38Marine Le Pen goes from strength to strength,
08:41it appears,
08:42despite the fact that, you know,
08:44she has a conviction for misuse of funds,
08:46which something you would imagine
08:48voters would be something
08:49that would put them off.
08:50What have you guys done wrong?
08:53You know,
08:53I think you see the rise of the far right
08:55and populist everywhere in Europe.
08:58and we should take this
08:59with a lot of humility
09:00and our first responsibility,
09:02first,
09:03is to continue to deliver on results.
09:05All the issues
09:06that we're discussing here today,
09:07from migration and security,
09:09from competitiveness,
09:10prosperity,
09:11from defending the security
09:14of Europeans against foreign threats,
09:16we have a lot to continue to do
09:18and to continue to deliver and function.
09:20And then I will tell you something.
09:22You know,
09:23this will be,
09:24as every election,
09:25a tough election.
09:28It's still a long way to go.
09:30And I never trust the polls
09:32because when I personally
09:34started supporting Emmanuel Macron in 2016,
09:37he was far, far behind.
09:39He was a newcomer then.
09:40Absolutely.
09:42But I know something for sure.
09:44The French are deeply pro-European.
09:46The French are proud of the role
09:48that their country is playing
09:49on the European stage.
09:51And Marine Le Pen,
09:52for a long time,
09:53has been the candidate of Brexit.
09:55She's been the candidate
09:56of leaving the Euro.
09:57It's still far.
09:59But I'm quite confident
10:01that the French,
10:02like they've done so many, many times,
10:05will refuse extremism.
10:07I am saying this
10:08with a lot of humility
10:09because I think a campaign,
10:11you know,
10:11you need to campaign.
10:12You need to go meet the French.
10:14You need to listen to voters.
10:16You need to respond,
10:17propose a platform.
10:18We need to unify around a candidate
10:20because right now
10:21we have a lot of talents
10:22in the centre,
10:24but we have a fragmented
10:25political offer.
10:26So I think by the end of the year,
10:27we will have one candidate
10:28that can rally the centre
10:30and the centre-right.
10:31And then we will make a case.
10:33Once again,
10:34France has shown repeatedly,
10:36the French people
10:36have shown repeatedly
10:37that they've said no
10:38to extremism,
10:40Euroscepticism and populism.
10:41At the same time,
10:42they're getting stronger
10:43and they did ever so well
10:44at the European Parliament elections.
10:46I think, you know,
10:47you have a broader sense
10:48of maybe loss of control
10:51in globalization.
10:53You have a world
10:54that's changing very rapidly
10:55where a lot of the certainties
10:57that we had in the 90s
10:58and the 2000s
10:59are crumbling.
11:00Trade is being weaponized
11:01as a tool of pressure.
11:03You see the rise of China
11:04and the subsidized overcapacities
11:09that are coming to our markets
11:11are destabilizing our industries.
11:13You see our traditional alliances
11:15that are being questioned
11:16and a war of Russian aggression
11:18on our continent.
11:20And so when you have
11:21all this transformation,
11:23uncertainties,
11:24and a lot of the pillars
11:26on which we had built
11:27our systems,
11:28our European Union,
11:29our transatlantic alliance
11:30that are being questioned,
11:32yes, I think, you know,
11:33these periods of transition
11:35paved the way very often
11:37for radical answers.
11:38I don't think they're
11:38the right answer.
11:39I don't think that in a world
11:41where you have the pressure
11:42from China, from the U.S.,
11:44the threat coming from Russia,
11:45we would be stronger
11:46going it alone.
11:47I don't think we'd be stronger
11:48looking inwards.
11:49Benjamin Haddad,
11:51EU affairs minister for France,
11:52thank you very much
11:53for joining us on Euronews.
11:55Thank you.
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