00:00European foreign ministers, including the UK, Ukraine and Canada, have pledged unwavering support and vowed to stay united in the
00:08face of Russian aggression.
00:09For more, we can take you now to Dublin City, where our correspondent Shona Murray is standing by for us
00:14this morning as European affairs ministers are currently gathering.
00:18Shona, tell us, European leaders have been defiant this week that they will not be disunited. What are you hearing
00:23there?
00:26Now, that's right, Maeve. I think that decision on Tuesday by Berlin to formally attribute Russia to that drone attack
00:33in Leipzig airport, that really sharpened the resolve of EU ministers over the past few days, who, remember, were joined
00:38by their Canadian, Swiss, British, Ukrainian, Icelandic counterparts.
00:43And I think one thing that really emerged from that meeting is the consensus that much more needs to be
00:48done to restrict the number of Russians coming into the European Union and all across NATO territory.
00:53Because remember, it's emerging that potentially one of those responsible for the Leipzig attack came through the European Union, through
01:00Italy, back in April with a tourist visa.
01:03So that really was one of the very much important things that did emerge.
01:06In addition to that, and we heard it from Angela there, we're hearing from Mark Rutte, the NATO Secretary General,
01:11and Kayakalas, the EU foreign policy chief, that the Moscow war aims have not changed.
01:16But Moscow and the Kremlin are becoming more reckless and much more kinetic in their attacks on NATO territory.
01:22So what does all this mean? Does it mean we are at war with Russia, or is it all going
01:26to be below thresholds?
01:27Certainly, it's a development, what happened in Berlin.
01:30So with this, I caught up with Kostosius Budras, the Lithuanian foreign affairs minister, and I asked him a little
01:35about Lithuania's position and what this means.
01:38They want to freeze the whole cities in Ukraine and to gain advantage.
01:43And we are part of this picture, because we are the main supporters of Ukraine.
01:48And the Russian calculation probably is that if we are divided as the European family, if we are polarized within
01:55our societies, maybe support to Ukraine will decrease and maybe time will be on their side.
02:02So we also have the responsibility to deny them this projection.
02:07It won't happen. And we are resilient and we are strong in it.
02:12And if there is a miscalculation on the Russian side, this is also the message from Lithuania, if there are
02:20casualties in Lithuania, it won't take us a long time to make a distribution, one thing, and also to qualify
02:30it if it is as an act of aggression.
02:33It won't be the gray zone.
02:35They need to be aware, basically, that you are willing to trigger Article 4 and then Article 5 of NATO.
02:41Nationally, you know, immediately, because we also have the rights of someone.
02:45What does that mean then?
02:46We move to another status of our country.
02:50So then we are moving to the self-defense.
02:53And then we ask for our allies for the collective defense.
02:57And then we are moving to absolutely different escalation.
03:01So these operations with explosives in the civilian airport.
03:06So it is so close from the huge, huge damage that can be done and catastrophe.
03:12And then I see how on the Russian side, they do not feel any consequences from it.
03:19Are you saying that if Leipzig, the drone with the military-grade explosives, was in Lithuania, for example, that the
03:27Lithuanian government would have responded differently?
03:29That you would have said that this is an act of aggression?
03:32That was the plot that was prevented.
03:34So we do not have the damage and the casualties.
03:37Okay.
03:37So you're saying if there was damage.
03:40Yes.
03:40If there is the attribution, there is the intention, there is the damage done, and it falls under UN-chartered
03:47definition, what are the conditions for the self-defense?
03:51Of course we would go for it.
03:53Of course we would go for it.
03:53We don't need some working group and some commission to find out that it would take time.
03:58No.
03:58We will go immediately.
04:00And this is the thing that we have to collectively also make sure Russians, because they are playing here, and
04:08their bets are really high, and it is dangerous for our societies to fall into this trap.
04:14So we had the incidents with explosives already in the Baltic states. Those were prevented once.
04:20Yeah.
04:20But we also had the attempts to burn a factory, the IKEA shop, the arson operation. That was successful. So
04:30the spectrum is really high.
04:33A number of weeks ago, the United States had an assessment that – now we've heard this a lot, okay,
04:39but it was sort of reinforced again a few weeks ago – that there could be a potential attack on
04:45NATO territory by the Kremlin in a bid to unravel NATO somewhat.
04:50That it wouldn't be a full-scale invasion, but some sort of a limited ground invasion.
04:53And what are you hearing about that? And do you think then, therefore, if you were to trigger something like
04:59Article 5, that that could create a sort of chaos within NATO?
05:03Everything that we do or we consider, we do it with our allies, we coordinate, and we exchange our intelligence
05:11and our knowledge and understanding of the situation.
05:14So I can assure that those pieces of information that are shared publicly among the nations of the region –
05:24Baltics, Nordics, Poland and Germany – and each time the US is mentioned, we are possessing this similar information.
05:32We see that there are some options considered on the Russia side, maybe to escalate also within the direction of
05:38NATO.
05:39And we are telling in this way that we are prepared, we know what you are cooking there, and believe
05:44it, it will be then considered within the NATO alliance as activities against all of us.
05:51You think America would stand by you as well? The United States would stand by in Lithuania in the event
05:57of an Article 5 situation?
05:58I have no doubts in Article 5. Politically, militarily, this is the strongest alliance that ever existed on this earth.
06:07And each day we are working on preventing some things, ensuring what we know, and planning, planning, planning operationally in
06:16purpose to be stronger for the collective defence.
06:18And this is the deterrence, and this is the only reason we are still in peace.
