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In this episode, we dive deep into the legendary foundations of Dale Carnegie’s masterpiece, "How to Win Friends and Influence People." Discover why technical knowledge accounts for only fifteen percent of your financial success, while the remaining eighty-five percent relies on the elusive art of human engineering. We explore Carnegie’s fifteen-year journey of interviewing icons like Thomas Edison and John D. Rockefeller to uncover the secrets of leadership. Learn how to transform your workplace environment, turn enemies into loyal allies, and master the eternal principles of influence that can finally unlock your hidden potential for true, lasting and meaningful prosperity.
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00:00Did you know that 85% of your professional success has nothing to do with your technical knowledge?
00:05Hello friends and welcome back. I'm glad you're here. I want you to take a deep breath.
00:12I want you to unplug from the noise of the news cycle, the notifications pinging on your phone,
00:18and the endless scroll of social media. For the next little while, I want us to go on a journey
00:24inward. We are going to explore the single most complex, volatile, and rewarding machinery in
00:30the known universe. I'm not talking about artificial intelligence, and I'm not talking
00:36about quantum computing. I'm talking about the human being sitting across from you at the dinner
00:41table. I'm talking about the boss who drives you crazy, the client who won't sign the deal,
00:47and the reflection you see in the mirror every morning. Today, we are diving into a text that
00:53is often misunderstood. It's a book that sits on millions of shelves, sometimes gathering dust,
01:00sometimes viewed as a relic of a bygone era. I'm talking, of course, about Dale Carnegie's
01:06How to Win Friends and Influence People. But, and this is a big, but, we are not looking at this
01:13as
01:13a collection of cheap parlor tricks to manipulate people. We are looking at this through the lens
01:18of a recent, profound re-examination of the text, specifically the Vietnamese edition known as
01:24D.A.C. Nantam, which reframes these concepts not as tactics, but as a philosophy of the heart.
01:31We are going to break down the first massive chunk of this wisdom, covering the foundational
01:36arguments, the science of criticism, and the desperate, gnawing hunger for appreciation.
01:43And I promise you, by the end of this episode, you are going to look at your interactions with
01:48other human beings in a completely different light. Let's start with a number. 85. Keep that
01:55number in your head. We live in a world that is obsessed with technical proficiency. We spend years
02:01in university learning how to code, how to calculate load-bearing walls, how to interpret tax law, or how to
02:08perform surgery. We assume that if we are the smartest person in the room, if our technical
02:14IQ is off the charts, success is inevitable. But Carnegie starts his thesis by shattering that
02:21illusion. He cites a study from the Carnegie Institute of Technology that reveals a success formula that is
02:28frankly terrifying if you've spent your whole life just studying textbooks. The study found that only 15%
02:36of a person's financial and professional success is due to technical knowledge. 15%. That's it.
02:44The other 85%? That comes from what Carnegie calls, human engineering. It's your personality.
02:52It's your ability to lead. It's your capacity to arouse enthusiasm in other people. Think about that for a
02:59second. Think about the most brilliant engineer you know who is currently stuck in a mid-level position
03:05because nobody wants to work with them. Now think about that manager who maybe isn't the best coder,
03:11but who can rally a team to walk through fire to meet a deadline. That is the 85% in
03:17action.
03:18And the tragedy, the absolute tragedy that Carnegie identifies is that while this is the most critical
03:24skill for navigating life, it is the one subject that our traditional education system completely ignores.
03:32We are taught about the anatomy of a frog, but we aren't taught the anatomy of a conversation.
03:38Now, before you get cynical and think,
03:41Okay, so this is a book about how to fake it, how to smile and schmooze your way to the
03:46top.
03:47I want to stop you right there.
03:49This is where the modern perspective, particularly the insights from the Vietnamese introduction by First
03:55News becomes so vital. They argue that D.A.C. Nantam isn't about superficial pleasing. It's about character
04:02formation. It's about a concept they call heart, vision, and talent. If you apply these principles
04:10just to get something out of someone, you are a manipulator, and you will eventually be found out.
04:15But if you apply them because you genuinely want to build a win-win scenario, where you help someone
04:22else grow while you grow yourself, then you are practicing high-level human leadership.
04:28This isn't a bag of tricks. It's a way of life. It's about aligning your internal values with your
04:35external behavior. So where did this Bible of social interaction come from? It wasn't written
04:42overnight. Carnegie didn't just wake up one morning with a list of rules. This book is the result of
04:49a 15-year research project. It's a scientific inquiry into the nature of success. Carnegie realized
04:57his adult students in New York didn't just need public speaking tips. They were terrified of social
05:02friction. They didn't know how to handle an angry customer or a disappointed spouse. Because there were
05:09no textbooks on the subject, Carnegie had to build one. He hired a researcher who spent a year and a
05:16half just digging through libraries. They read everything. And I mean everything. They read the
05:22biographies of Julius Caesar to see how he handled his legions. They read over 100 books on Theodore
05:29Roosevelt alone to understand how he managed his cabinet. Carnegie personally interviewed the giants of
05:35his day. People like Marconi and Franklin D. Roosevelt asking them. How do you do it? How do you handle
05:44people? But the real laboratory wasn't the library. It was Carnegie's classroom. This is what makes the
05:51book so visceral. He would teach a principal and then he would tell his students. Go out into the city
05:58of
05:58New York this week and try it. Use it on your boss. Use it on your doorman. Use it on
06:04your wife. Then come
06:05back and tell us what happened. The stories in this book are field reports from the front lines of human
06:11interaction. We hear about a manager of 314 employees who was a tyrant of criticism. He was creating a toxic
06:19environment where everyone was an opponent. He applied these principles, shifted from criticism to
06:26encouragement, and suddenly the opponents became friends. Even the security guards started greeting
06:32him. That's not just a nice story. That is a fundamental shift in the culture of a workplace,
06:39driven by one person changing their approach. Carnegie quotes the philosopher Herbert Spencer,
06:45who said, The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. And that brings us to the
06:51instruction manual portion of our discussion. How do you actually read a book like this?
06:58Most of us read a book once, nod our heads, say, That was interesting, and put it on the shelf.
07:05Then we go right back to our old habits. Carnegie warns us, If you do that, you are wasting your
07:11time.
07:12To master human engineering, you are fighting against your own nature.
07:17You are fighting against a lifetime of reflex. He suggests a method that is almost like a game,
07:23but a high-stakes one. First, you have to read each chapter twice. You have to treat the book as
07:30a working document, underline it, right in the margins. But here is my favorite part. He suggests
07:37gamifying your self-improvement. He talks about a system where you ask a friend or a family member to
07:44find you every time they catch you violating a principle. Imagine that. Imagine telling your
07:50spouse, Every time I criticize you or complain this week, I owe you a dollar. Do you realize how
07:57quickly you would become aware of your own behavior? It forces mindfulness. Carnegie tells the story of a
08:04Wall Street banker who had a secret ritual. Every Saturday night, he would lock himself in his study
08:10for a self-audit. He would look at his calendar and replay every interview, every discussion,
08:17every meeting from the past week. And he would ask himself ruthless questions. What mistake did I make
08:23here? Was I right? Was I wrong? Could I have been kinder? Did I listen? He admitted that in the
08:32beginning, these sessions were painful. He was horrified by his own blunders. But over the years,
08:38the mistakes became fewer. His intuition sharpened. He became a master of people,
08:45not because he was born that way, but because he had the humility to audit his own performance.
08:51Now, let's pivot to the meat of the matter. The first major principle. If you take nothing else away
08:58from this podcast, take this image. If you want to gather honey, don't kick over the beehive.
09:03We are talking about criticism. The urge to condemn. The urge to say. You're wrong. And here is why.
09:12Carnegie's argument is radical in its simplicity. Criticism is futile. It is a waste of energy.
09:19Why? Because 99 times out of 100, people do not criticize themselves for anything,
09:26no matter how wrong they may be. When you criticize someone, you aren't correcting them.
09:32You are forcing them to defend themselves. You are wounding their pride. And when you wound a
09:38person's pride, they don't learn. They just resent you. Let's look at the extreme end of the spectrum
09:44to prove this point. Carnegie takes us into the mind of the criminal. He tells the story of
09:50Two-Gun Crowley. This was a man who, in 1931, was trapped in a shootout with the police.
09:57He was a cop-killer, a violent, dangerous man. While the police were firing into his apartment,
10:04Crowley wrote a letter. And what did he write? Did he write,
10:09I am a monster, I deserve to die. No. He wrote,
10:14Under my coat is a weary heart, but a kind one, one that would do nobody any harm.
10:19A few weeks later, he went to the electric chair. His last words weren't,
10:25I'm sorry for killing people. His last words were,
10:29This is what I get for defending myself. Here is the chilling realization,
10:34If Al Capone, if, Two-Gun, Crowley. If the men in Sing Sing prison don't blame themselves for
10:41their crimes, if they can rationalize murder, what makes you think the people in your life are?
10:46Going to accept your criticism about the dishes, or the quarterly report, or their driving?
10:52Human nature is a mechanism of self-justification.
10:56B.E.F.
10:58Skinner, the famous psychologist, proved this in the lab.
11:02Animals rewarded for good behavior learn rapidly.
11:05Animals punished for bad behavior learn slowly and develop strange side effects.
11:10The same applies to humans.
11:13We crave approval and we dread condemnation.
11:16One of the most powerful examples Carnegie gives is about Abraham Lincoln.
11:21We think of Lincoln as this stoic, gentle giant.
11:24But as a young man?
11:26He was a troll.
11:27He wrote mocking letters.
11:29He ridiculed people.
11:32In 1842, he ridiculed a politician named James Shields so badly that Shields challenged him to a duel.
11:39Can you imagine?
11:40The future president of the United States facing off in a field with broadswords,
11:45which was the weapon of choice, ready to kill or be killed.
11:50All because of a sarcastic letter.
11:52The duel was stopped at the last minute, but it shook Lincoln to his core.
11:57He realized that his criticism almost cost him his life.
12:01From that day forward, he almost never criticized anyone.
12:06During the Civil War, when his generals were failing him,
12:09when General Meade failed to pursue Lee after Gettysburg.
12:13Essentially prolonging the war, Lincoln wrote a letter.
12:17It was a harsh letter.
12:18But he never sent it.
12:20It was found in his papers after he died.
12:23He realized that from the safety of the White House,
12:27it was easy to judge.
12:28But if he had been on the battlefield,
12:31seeing the blood and the horror,
12:33maybe he wouldn't have been so eager to attack either.
12:36He learned the power of the pause.
12:38Let's bring this into the modern day,
12:41or at least, the era of aviation.
12:44There is a story about Bob Hoover,
12:46a famous stunt pilot.
12:48He was flying a vintage prop plane when both engines cut out.
12:51He managed to land,
12:54saving the plane and himself,
12:55but it was a close call.
12:57He checked the fuel tanks
12:59and realized the mechanic had put jet fuel in a propeller plane.
13:03It ruined the engines.
13:05It could have killed him.
13:07Now, imagine the scene.
13:09The pilot walks back to the hangar.
13:12There is the mechanic, young, terrified,
13:14weeping, knowing he almost killed the legend.
13:17What would you do?
13:19Scream?
13:20Fire him?
13:22Sue him?
13:23Bob Hoover walked up to him,
13:25put his arm around his shoulder,
13:27and said,
13:28To show you I'm sure that you'll never do this again.
13:31I want you to service my F-51 tomorrow.
13:34That is leadership.
13:36That is human engineering.
13:39By forgiving instead of condemning,
13:41he created a loyalty that money cannot buy.
13:43He didn't kick the beehive.
13:46He calmed the bees.
13:48So, if we aren't supposed to criticize,
13:50what are we supposed to do?
13:52How do we actually get people to do what we want?
13:56This leads us to the second major principle,
13:58or what Carnegie calls,
14:00the big secret of dealing with people.
14:03There is only one way under the sun
14:05to get anybody to do anything.
14:07Have you ever thought about that?
14:09You can put a gun to someone's head,
14:12and they will give you their wallet.
14:14You can threaten to fire an employee,
14:16and they will show up on time,
14:18for a while.
14:19But those are crude methods with toxic fallout.
14:22The only way to get someone to do something willingly
14:25is to make them want to do it.
14:27And how do you make them want to do it?
14:30You have to give them what they crave.
14:32And I use the word crave, deliberately.
14:36Sigmund Freud said the two primary drivers
14:38of human behavior are the sex urge
14:40and the desire to be great.
14:42John Dewey, the American philosopher,
14:45said the deepest urge in human nature is the
14:47desire to be important.
14:50William James said it is a
14:52craving
14:53to be appreciated.
14:54It is a gnawing,
14:56spiritual hunger.
14:57We feed our children food
14:59to keep their bodies alive,
15:01but how often do we feed their self-esteem?
15:04We starve the people around us
15:06of the one thing they desire
15:07more than anything else,
15:09the feeling of importance.
15:11Why do you think people wear expensive clothes?
15:14Why do we drive cars we can't afford?
15:17Why do we brag about our children?
15:19Why did George Washington want to be called,
15:22his mightiness?
15:24Why did a grocery clerk named Abraham Lincoln
15:27study law books at the bottom of a barrel
15:29buy candlelight?
15:29It wasn't for the money.
15:32It was for the feeling of importance.
15:35Carnegie even suggests that some people go insane,
15:38literally losing their minds,
15:40because in their insanity.
15:42They can find the feeling of importance
15:44that the real world denied them.
15:46They retreat into a fantasy
15:48where they are queens or millionaires.
15:50If people are willing to lose their minds
15:53to feel important,
15:54imagine what you can achieve
15:55if you can give them that feeling
15:57while they are still sane.
15:59This brings us to Charles Schwab.
16:02Now, in the early 20th century,
16:04Charles Schwab was one of the very first people
16:07in America to be paid a salary
16:08of over one million dollars a year.
16:11That is an astronomical amount of money
16:13for that time.
16:15Why was he paid that much?
16:17Was he the best steel manufacturer?
16:20No.
16:21Schwab admitted that many of the men
16:23working under him knew more about steel
16:25than he did.
16:26He was paid a million dollars a year
16:28for one reason,
16:29his ability to deal with people.
16:31And what was his secret?
16:33He said,
16:35I consider my ability to arouse enthusiasm
16:37among my people the greatest asset I possess.
16:41He had a simple rule,
16:42be hardy in your approbation
16:44and lavish in your praise.
16:46When he liked something,
16:47he was vocal about it.
16:49When he disliked something,
16:51he didn't criticize,
16:52he just focused on what was done right.
16:55He believed that there is nothing
16:57that kills the ambitions of a person
16:59as quickly as criticism from a superior.
17:02Think about the difference
17:03between flattery and appreciation.
17:06This is a crucial distinction
17:07that the book makes,
17:09and one that the Vietnamese edition
17:10emphasizes heavily.
17:12Flattery is cheap.
17:14It is insincere.
17:16It comes from the teeth out.
17:18Appreciation comes from the heart out.
17:21Flattery is telling a person
17:22what they think of themselves.
17:25Appreciation is noticing something specific,
17:27something real,
17:28and valuing it.
17:29If you try to use flattery,
17:31you will fail.
17:33It's like counterfeit money.
17:35Eventually,
17:35someone will catch you passing it.
17:38But if you take the time
17:39to actually look at a person,
17:41to see the work they are doing,
17:43to understand the burden
17:44they are carrying,
17:45and you offer a sincere word of praise,
17:48that is magic.
17:49Carnegie tells a heartbreaking story
17:51at the end of this section called
17:53Father Forgets.
17:55It's a short essay by W.
17:58Livingston learned.
17:59It describes a father
18:00standing by his sleeping son's bed.
18:03The father is overcome with remorse.
18:06He realizes that all day long,
18:08he had been snapping at the boy.
18:10Stand up straight.
18:12You didn't brush your teeth.
18:14You spilled your food.
18:16The father realizes
18:17he was measuring his young son
18:19by the yardstick of his own adulthood.
18:22He was expecting perfection.
18:24But looking at the sleeping boy,
18:26he sees the innocence,
18:28the love,
18:29the vulnerability.
18:30He realizes that his criticism
18:32was slowly crushing the boy's spirit.
18:35He vows,
18:36in that dark room,
18:37to change.
18:38To stop being a critic
18:40and start being a father.
18:41That is the essence
18:43of this first chunk of the book.
18:44It is a call to wake up.
18:47We are walking through
18:48a world of people
18:49who are desperate for validation.
18:51Your spouse,
18:53your children,
18:53your employees,
18:54the barista who makes your coffee,
18:56they are all fighting a hard battle.
18:59They all have a weary heart,
19:01like two-gun Crowley,
19:02or a hunger for importance
19:03like Lincoln.
19:05The science is clear.
19:06Criticism shuts people down.
19:09It triggers defensive walls.
19:12Appreciation opens them up.
19:13It unlocks that latent power
19:15that William James talked about.
19:18So,
19:19here is your challenge.
19:20We aren't just listening to a podcast,
19:23we are doing
19:24human engineering.
19:26For the next 24 hours,
19:28I want you to try an experiment.
19:30I want you to suppress the urge
19:32to criticize,
19:33no matter how justified you feel.
19:36If someone cuts you off in traffic,
19:38let it go.
19:39If your partner forgets
19:41to take out the trash,
19:42don't make a snide comment.
19:44Instead,
19:45I want you to find
19:46three opportunities
19:47to offer sincere,
19:48specific appreciation.
19:50Not,
19:51good job.
19:53But,
19:54I really appreciated
19:55how you handled that phone call,
19:57you were so patient.
19:58Or,
20:00thank you for making dinner,
20:01the sauce was incredible.
20:03Watch what happens.
20:05Watch the light
20:06come into their eyes.
20:07Watch the tension
20:08leave their shoulders.
20:10You aren't just being nice.
20:12You are tapping
20:13into the 85% of success.
20:16You are winning friends.
20:18You are influencing people.
20:20But more importantly,
20:21you are becoming
20:22the kind of person
20:23who brings light
20:24into a room
20:25rather than darkness.
20:26This is just the beginning.
20:29We have only scratched
20:30the surface
20:30of the first 25 pages
20:32or so.
20:33As we go deeper
20:35into this book,
20:36we are going to learn
20:36how to make people
20:37like you instantly,
20:39how to win people
20:40to your way of thinking,
20:42and how to change people
20:43without giving offense.
20:45But it all starts here.
20:47It starts with the decision
20:48to stop kicking the beehive
20:50and start satisfying
20:51the hunger for importance.
20:53Thank you for listening.
20:55Go out there
20:56and be an engineer
20:57of the human heart.
20:58I'll see you
20:59in the next episode.
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