00:00First, to Ireland, where EU Defence Ministers are meeting today amid an escalation of hybrid war attacks across the continent.
00:07Ministers are due to discuss increased threat levels on the continent linked to Russia's war in Ukraine,
00:12and their talks come just as a massive Russian missile and drone attack struck Kiev last night, killing four and
00:18wounding dozens.
00:19Our correspondent Shona Murray is in Dublin and joins me now.
00:23Shona, good morning. Look, the last few weeks have seen an upsurge in these attacks. Just tell us more.
00:30That's right, Maeve. That's certainly the backdrop of this meeting here in Ireland this week.
00:35We saw a few weeks ago a US intelligence assessment saying that the Kremlin may plan to attack NATO territory
00:43in a limited way in order to test NATO resolve.
00:46Then, as you mentioned there, we had John Radcliffe, the head of the CIA, visiting Moscow last week,
00:51which is emerging as he told the Kremlin and Putin not to attack NATO territory.
00:56Donald Trump, in the last few hours, has tried to play this down, saying this is a routine visit.
01:01It is not a routine visit with the head of the CIA to visit the Kremlin.
01:04The last time that actually happened was under Biden, when they tried to persuade Putin not to attack Ukraine in
01:10the full-scale invasion.
01:11Then, in addition to that, of course, Maeve, we've seen a major surge, a significant surge in hybrid activity,
01:17non-kinetic normally all across Europe over the past year, and in particular the last few months,
01:21mainly drone incursions into places like Romania and other parts of the Baltics.
01:25But just a few weeks ago, at the start of August, German authorities intercepted an explosive-laden drone in Leipzig
01:32Airport.
01:33Now, this was military-grade explosives. There was three drones in total.
01:37The German Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, in the last few days has said that he will formally attribute this to the
01:43Kremlin.
01:43That's the first time that's ever happened, because these tacks normally tend to be sort of below the radar and
01:48grey area,
01:49sort of a grey zone, so it's hard to apply attribution.
01:52But we're expecting over the next few days for Friedrich Merz to do that.
01:55That will be a real topic of conversation here in Ireland today and over the next few days.
02:00So I caught up with the Swedish Foreign Affairs Minister, Maria Malmö-Stanegard, and I asked her about this.
02:05I really don't like the term hybrid threat because it sounds like an environmentally friendly car when it's something completely
02:15different.
02:15This is extremely serious. We are in the most serious security situation since the Second World War.
02:22We take the drone incidents in Leipzig extremely serious, and we are in close contact with our German friends.
02:30So what are the implications of attributing this to Russia?
02:34Because we know these type of attacks, they're sort of the grey area.
02:38It's very hard to be 100% concrete about attribution, which is why the likes of Russia and China kind
02:44of get away with this.
02:45Well, we're not there yet. Like I said, we are in close contact with our German colleagues,
02:50and we take these incidents extremely serious.
02:55But we will have to see what comes out, and I cannot disclose any information that has been handed to
03:02us.
03:02Okay. I just want to ask you about the unfreezing of Russian frozen state assets and using them to pay
03:11for Ukraine, Ukraine's defense reconstruction.
03:13That's back on the table now. Is that something that we'll be hearing about over the next few days?
03:18And do you hope that the Belgians might change their mind on this?
03:22Yes. So Sweden, the Netherlands, Poland and Spain have taken the initiative to take this back to the table,
03:29because what we see is that Ukraine needs more support.
03:33And to be honest, we are not providing enough support bilaterally and through the EU.
03:39And then what is left is the frozen assets.
03:41And I take Belgium's concerns very seriously, but I think it is also basically what my colleague Prevost said,
03:54that we have to make sure that we share the risks and that Belgium is not left alone with the
04:00risks.
04:01But Belgium was looking for full guarantees for any unintended consequences if things go wrong with this risk.
04:08Do you think the EU is willing to do that? Or are we in the same position we were in
04:12before Christmas?
04:13In my opinion, we cannot stay in the same position as we were before Christmas.
04:17We have to move on because this is what is fair to Ukraine.
04:21It's what is fair to the taxpayers.
04:27So, Maeve, the issue of frozen Russian state assets back on the table this week,
04:32from what I heard from the Belgian authorities, they haven't moved in their position.
04:36And, of course, as you heard there, an increasingly more hostile security situation all across Europe.
04:42So, what a way to get back into September.
04:45Maeve?
04:46So, what a way to get back into September.
04:46So, what a way to get back into September.
04:46So, what a way to get back into September.
