00:00This is Bloomer. A lot of the new ETF filings and issuances are coming from these smaller firms
00:07that perhaps no one had heard of five, 10 years ago. What are smaller firms like a Corgi, for
00:13instance, able to do that the big three can't or won't? You know, they're probably just willing to
00:17take more risk, go into the unknown, which over the last couple of years has really paid off.
00:23Surprisingly, I'm always surprised, right? So, you know, distribution is really not such a moat
00:28anymore. But if you would have asked me 10, 15 years ago, you want to be an ETF issuer, you
00:32better
00:32have Salesforce, you better have institutional connections. Now, you know, three people with a
00:38great idea and a great story can just go direct, you know, direct to retail and to self-directed
00:44investors and to go on all these platforms. So they're seeing the opportunity. You know, it's not
00:48so expensive. You know, I mean, we're literally playing, you know, part of that game and bringing
00:53the cost down to launch an ETF, right? So they're now able to take a lot more risk because it's
00:59not
00:59so expensive to at least put a filing in and see what feedback they get. And if it's something that
01:06the SEC agrees with, I mean, we could talk about a little bit, you know, the novel ETF comments that
01:12are coming. But, you know, there are a lot of opportunities that they're willing to take a risk
01:17on and, you know, they don't have a reputation to necessarily uphold. Like, let's just, it's become
01:22like a little bit of a throw anything on the wall and see what sticks. I hate to say it,
01:26but like
01:26things are sticking. So why don't you do it, you know? Yeah. So we look at this, you talked about
01:30the stats that you put up there. The launches are going through the roof. We're going on another
01:34massive record for launches. Closers are also up. But like, is there anything in like, in your view
01:40that could slow this down? Are we going to see some of this slow down on launches? I know the
01:45opportunities are just so great, right? I think the market has spoken that they love the ETF
01:49wrapper. So whatever you can think of that potentially could fit an ETF wrapper. And if,
01:55you know, you can talk to regulators and explain to them how the creation, creation or redemption
01:59mechanism will work to the market makers, how they will hedge it. And you can put that in ETF
02:05wrapper. The market has spoken that that's their preferred vehicle. You know, so why not? I mean,
02:10some of these things don't automatically make sense. Totson was on talking to us about
02:14volatility shares trust filing to launch 32 separate NHL team ETFs, tracking on ice performance
02:20through futures contracts. We're not sure how this would work. Do you say no to a lot of these
02:26pitches from potential ETF issuers? I mean, what's the ratio of no to yes? You know, so that's an
02:32interesting question as a white label issuer who wants to list ETFs, right? So I think we talk about
02:38the challenges. And if it's something that's a maybe, then maybe go for it. But you have to, you
02:44know, we're trying to get really, really clear with our clients, with our prospects, that this
02:48might be a really long road ahead. And it might be no. But if you're willing to stomach that, we're
02:54okay
02:54to be in it with you and to go through that and, you know, go through all the comments and
02:59go to the
03:00market makers and try and make this a, you know, a viable ETF that hopefully, you know, has interest.
03:06That's kind of a key. But I don't know if the answer is no. I think we go through a
03:11very meticulous
03:12process of understanding whether it could potentially work. And if you're willing to take the
03:17risk, we'll take it all. You know, we'll go along with you. Yeah. So we talk about all the launches.
03:22We're talking about all these. You're a white label issuer, right? So you partner with people.
03:25They come to you with ideas. I assume we're seeing all these launches. We're seeing all these
03:28filings. Is your business picking up too? Are you getting a lot of inbound? And like,
03:31what advice do you give people if they're going to come to you with an idea that they want to
03:34launch an ETF? Yeah. I mean, we certainly get a lot of inbound. I mean, you can only imagine that
03:39it's only a small percentage of those actually, you know, come to fruition. Because a lot of times
03:44people see ETFs. It's a, you know, they've managed money or maybe they haven't managed money. And
03:49it's the shiny object. I hate to say, but it is, that's what it is. And so it doesn't slow
03:56down. But I think
03:57it's having, you know, this is the sales cycle, as we call it on our business. It could be very
04:01long
04:02or it can be very short, right? People are trying to go faster than I've ever seen before. But we
04:08try
04:09and slow it down. But we, you know, we have a common period. There are times you need to just
04:13explain to
04:13them what to expect. Right. And the good thing about going to us is like, you know, the operational
04:20layer is taken care of, right? So we can go a little bit faster than a brand new issuer because
04:25you're
04:25partnering with us. So I don't know if that really answers the questions, but it's not slowing down.
04:30And we don't say no, but I think we take a long look, you know, and an analysis with our
04:37issuers to
04:37say this actually makes sense. For every idea that's out there, James, it feels like there's also the
04:42leverage option, too, right? Like you could, it multiplies very quickly. And I know you've done a lot
04:47of research on the leverage ETFs. Are they only a retail investor thing or are there active
04:51institutional investors, you know, really using these tools? So I think it's largely retail driven,
04:56but there's also a lot of institutions in there because they're using it for hedging and they need
04:59to make markets in these ETFs. I mean, you may talk and comment on this a little bit further, but
05:02like
05:02for the most part, institutions are there. They're trading them, particularly the option side of
05:06things. They need to hedge and somebody needs to make a market. And they're pretty efficient vehicles
05:10for getting exposure over a short term. They're not something you should hold long term. But
05:13Tukerim has a bunch of leveraged products, a bunch of futures products that I would consider
05:17trading vehicles, not long term buy and hold. And I assume you're launching some of those
05:20in the white label side too. Yeah, of course. So, you know, everyone's like, well, I'm going to
05:24launch this version and then a 2X version, right? And it's just where the market is going. It's what
05:30investors want, both institutional and I think retail. I mean, I think a lot of the bad rep comes
05:35from the retail space because people are holding these for probably longer than they're intended to
05:40be held. And then they get a bad rep and it's, that's not what they're meant to do. And so
05:44it's
05:45about investor education and about, you know, disclosures and, you know, we can only do what we can do
05:49because at the end of the day, there's always going to be retail in there, whether they should
05:53be or not. But that's how the ETF, you know, vehicle and structure has come to be. I don't know
05:57what else to say about that. Yeah. So trading vehicles, we talked at the top of the show about
06:02Bitcoin and Ethereum. They are not doing so well right now. They're kind of left for dead. The
06:06Bitcoin flows do not look good year to date. We're at record outflows. But you guys have other
06:10products in the crypto space. And I also would say that the Solana ETFs, the XRP ETFs, the
06:16hyperliquid ETFs, they're bright spots. I mean, the performance isn't necessarily great, but the
06:19flows are good. So what are you seeing in the crypto landscape when you're talking to
06:23clients? I assume people are coming to you with ideas. We get a lot of the crypto, you know, folks
06:27who are not in the ETF space, but in the crypto space and trying to, OK, how can I monetize,
06:33you
06:34know, my strategy in an ETF wrapper that's, you know, very well known and very has a lot of
06:39distribution. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's still a challenge because market caps are down
06:45across the boards down, you know, and we have a lot of conversations with anybody down the cap, you
06:50know, the cap table there. And there's still really challenging conversations. I don't know if I agree
06:55that I think they're super bright spots, but I think, you know, there's more yield. So there's more
07:00opportunity. I see. And that in those right more than Bitcoin and Ethereum. So remains to be seen. I
07:06think it will turn around.
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