- 2 hours ago
Jeremy Strong joins GQ as he revisits some of the most iconic characters from his career so far: from the true-to-life portrayal of Vinny Daniel in The Big Short to his critically acclaimed role as troubled media heir Kendall Roy in Succession.
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00:00Tabasco sent me like a bejeweled Tabasco that says fit for a king from the smoothie when
00:07they put Tabasco in that smoothie.
00:09So that's like the one thing I have from Kendall.
00:19We sell our swabs when the market opens.
00:23We get our bonuses, our investors get their profits, we get 30 cents on the dollar, not
00:28bad.
00:29We're three times that.
00:31Not if there's no market left to sell them.
00:33I went like 10 rounds with that movie.
00:35You go in for Hamlet and then you go in for Fortinbras and then you go in for, you know,
00:42the spear carrier number two and after maybe five or six auditions, I made a tape for these
00:50two guys who were named after the colors of their shirts, maroon and black.
00:56And I remember thinking like, oh, which is a better part?
01:00I mean, maybe maroon is a better part, you know, and then, and then I got the call that
01:04it wasn't going to go any further with maroon shirt guy.
01:08Finally, after a few months and I had let it go, I found out that another actor had dropped
01:13out of the part of Vinnie, which nobody saw me as because I'm very different from, from him.
01:20You know, in Monty Python, you ever seen the Knights Who Say Knee?
01:22Like the guy who's, he has like one limb cut off one at a time.
01:27And so by the end of it, I was like a bloody stump.
01:29But then I went in for Vinnie and, uh, and then that happened.
01:34It did sort of change my life, kind of changed everything.
01:37There's a Wallace Stevens poem where he writes, after the final no, there comes a yes.
01:43And on that yes, the future world depends.
01:45And that was the yes for me.
01:47Vinnie Daniels is, he's kind of like, I saw him as a blue collar guy in a white collar job.
01:55He has a strong ethical core.
01:57He had a mistrust of elite institutions.
02:01And I think a desire to expose and punish dishonesty and criminality.
02:10He had a real strong ethical core and a, and a sense of fiduciary obligation to his clients.
02:17But he was a skeptic in life that I think is what maybe allowed him to, to see what other
02:26people couldn't see.
02:27All these guys were sort of outliers and they, they saw, you know, the cracks in the floor
02:33that, that people weren't seeing and made this bet.
02:35That it's kind of this story of terminal stages of capitalism that we maybe find ourselves
02:42in.
02:43And this sort of rotten foundation, faulty foundation that, that our housing market was
02:49built on that had a domino effect on the world economy.
02:54Mark, are you there?
02:57But at least we're going to see some of them go to jail, right?
03:02I mean, they're going to have to break up the banks.
03:04You know, I went to spend time with him at his fund on Madison Avenue and spent time on
03:09trading floors.
03:10And, you know, part of that is also part of your job as an actor is to gain like domain
03:18expertise on whatever you're doing.
03:21So to learn about the world, to, to, to, to gain a kind of as much as you can, a
03:28mastery
03:28of the world.
03:30So in that case, it was the financial world and understanding that world.
03:36And, and, and, and everything I did in the movie is just whatever I got from him.
03:40You kind of absorb it by osmosis.
03:43And, you know, I recorded him and, and was trying to channel what I felt was his essence,
03:49even though he's like six, three and, you know, big kind of domineering guy.
03:56Is anybody jumping off the buildings yet?
03:58Why would they?
03:58Subprime mortgage bond prices are up.
04:00What?
04:00Bennett wants 1.9 million more in collateral by close.
04:04Bennett's asking us to post collateral.
04:06What the hell is going on?
04:07We don't know.
04:08But Deutsche is on the phone demanding payment.
04:09I still don't really know what subprime mortgages and collateralized debt obligations and, you
04:16know, all those things are, but Adam McKay and Charles Randolph who wrote the script and
04:22Michael Lewis who wrote the book that it's all based on found a way to make it understandable
04:28to the masses and exciting even, you know, Adam, Adam has that ability to, to make something
04:35really sing that could otherwise just be, uh, like really dense material.
04:47Sorry, Dad, I'm, I'm kind of in the middle of, uh, do you need, do I need to lawyer all
04:52this?
04:53It's housekeeping.
04:57You know, that experience was so big.
04:59There were seven years of my life.
05:01Part of me does it.
05:02I was thinking about doing this and I was like, I don't even know what to say about
05:06it.
05:06You know, it's like, I don't even know.
05:08I don't have words for it, but I was driving here today and I realized that even New York
05:12city has become a kind of emotional archeological site for me.
05:16Like I drove past on the way here, the boat that we shot the episode of Logan's death on
05:24that boat, like a 32 minute tape.
05:26Is he gone?
05:28And then I drove past the helipad that we were always taking off from.
05:31And then I drove past the bottom of the city where the very last day of shooting, I end
05:38up on a bench, tried to go in the water.
05:41You know, it's like Waystar headquarters was right here at Seven World Trade.
05:45It's all kind of present for me still in a way, although it feels like another lifetime
05:51ago, we made 39 episodes.
05:53So it's like making 20 movies.
05:56The canvas, you know, from the very first day of filming where I was doing a Beastie
06:01Boys rap in the back of a car.
06:02Brown stalls, water towers, trees, skyscrapers.
06:05To the last day of filming on that bench and at the bottom of the city, like a kind of
06:10astonishing
06:11amount in between the car crash and we were filming in East North Castle in England, the
06:21sort of Manchurian candidate, broken spirit of season two, the boat in Croatia and the
06:28press conference at the end.
06:29His reign ends.
06:30The rap in Scotland, the parking lot where he said I'm blown into a million pieces.
06:39It's staggering to me that I even did that, you know, because I don't remember most of
06:44it.
06:45It's like a blackout.
06:46You do get lost in it and something, something takes possession of you.
06:50Something takes over.
06:51It takes hold of you and you go somewhere and I don't really understand where you go
06:55or how you go there.
06:57And then you come to and it's like you're waking up from a dream.
07:03The painter Cy Twombly talked about painting as an active trance and I always related to
07:09that.
07:09I fully recognize that that's one of the great characters I'll ever get to play in my life.
07:16His journey to hell and back really and the kind of oceanic size of his needs.
07:23It's going to be epic.
07:24Of his pain, of his yearning, Jesse Armstrong and what he was able to write over the course
07:31of those four seasons.
07:33It's just incredible to me.
07:36And it took me beyond myself.
07:38Like if I thought this is as far as I can go, then they all of a sudden you get
07:44a script
07:44that says, no, you have to go further.
07:46At the end of the first season, the character, after the night of the car crash where the
07:52waiter is killed, in the script he wakes up and he hears on this old Roberts radio this
07:58John Berryman poem.
08:00There sat down a thing once on Henry's heart so heavy that after a thousand years weeping
08:08sleepless, Henry could not make good.
08:11I guess for me those seven years were about the remit of that for me, was to try to let
08:23something sit that heavily on my heart and then try to get out from under it.
08:28So that's what I think about when I think about succession.
08:31But it's gone now, you know, it's gone.
08:34You're using your aspects of yourself, your pain, your shame, your rage, your gargantuan
08:46yearning, all those things and you're giving it to the writing.
08:51I've let it go, I'll never let it go.
08:53Certainly each one of these things, each one of these roles we're talking about has probably
08:59changed me and given me something and taken me somewhere I otherwise never would have
09:05gone to.
09:06Jesse and I would talk a lot about scripts and story and I would always give notes when
09:12I felt they were, you know, I had strong convictions.
09:16I always have strong convictions about a character.
09:19And by that time, after so many years and seasons, I felt like I had authority on who this person
09:29is, respectfully so.
09:31But, you know, ultimately Jesse's the arbiter of those decisions.
09:35I remember feeling like that what happened in that boardroom, I am the eldest boy, that
09:41scene.
09:42I'm the eldest boy!
09:43It was like an extinction level event for this guy because it was just all over after
09:48that.
09:49The one thing, you know, his father sat him down at the candy kitchen in Bridgehampton when
09:55he was, I think, nine years old and said, you're going to, you're going to have this,
10:01you're going to do this with your life.
10:02And so that was his just singularity of purpose and wanting.
10:07And so to have that denied from him finally, you know, was like abandoned hope, all you
10:16who enter here kind of moment.
10:18I think there was nothing to live for after that because he'd already lost his ex-wife,
10:24he'd lost his kids.
10:25He'd turned down the chance for a life with Naomi to go to Hydra.
10:30He'd lost his siblings, he'd lost his mother, his father was dead, and he's an addict.
10:36When they came to you to offer an opportunity to play this role again?
10:41No.
10:43No, because that would feel like a stunt or something, you know.
10:46There's plenty of shows or movies that I would love to see people come back and do again.
10:51And I miss working with all those guys, you know.
10:54They're all such great actors and we all grew a lot together.
10:57You know, despite whatever the noise in the world is around whatever dramas we had.
11:03Like, I love those guys and I miss working with them.
11:07And I miss a lot about that character.
11:10Yeah.
11:12But also, I remember feeling like I'm watching my peers get to go from one thing to another,
11:21you know, and I'm doing this same thing.
11:23And so that allowed me to go deeper in an almost novelistic way.
11:27But I was ready for it to be over.
11:29Also, I felt like there was no change left in my pockets.
11:33Like, it was all left on the field.
11:35Everything.
11:36Everything that that character could have gone through, he went through.
11:40And it was time to call it.
11:48I do not eat bagels from Blue Fucking Bell, Molly, because these are poor people, bagels.
11:56I remember, like, going to Chrome Hearts and, like, getting all these jewelry and bracelets and hats and everything.
12:04And reading that book, The Game, it's like he's almost a kind of embodiment of toxic masculinity before Andrew Tate,
12:14before the Manosphere.
12:16To me, it was about creating somebody, this kind of toxic masculine character who's a real estate developer, who's a
12:25hustler,
12:26and who had this game at the Viper Room, that, you know, he created and brought all these really high
12:31-profile people to.
12:33That's my first movie with Aaron Sorkin, who's, you know, like Stephen, one of the all-time greats.
12:39With him, you know, you're working on, like, a Beethoven score.
12:43I'm all for breaking free of the writing, ad-libbing, going off-road, all of that.
12:50But with Aaron, you often don't need to, because it's written so well.
12:54It's like Tony Kushner.
12:56You know, Tony's the same way, and he wrote Lincoln.
12:58Some of these great writers, they've done so much of the work for you.
13:03You just have to follow the trail of the writing.
13:06And the writing, in a way, acts like a set of magnets that just pulls out of you whatever it
13:11needs.
13:12Now, you have to do a lot of work to prepare the character and to walk onto that set, you
13:18know, fully formed.
13:20You're a business savant.
13:21I've read every piece of paper in your office.
13:23You're making thousands in tips every week. Why do you care about $400 a week?
13:26Because I don't want to pick up your dry cleaning for free.
13:28You don't have bargaining power here.
13:30I remember in the book Molly wrote about how all these people who were so successful,
13:34and there were some movie stars in the game and, you know, some really high-net-worth people in the
13:39game,
13:39that they had no jugular to their day-to-day lives, so that's what they needed in the game,
13:45was a feeling of stakes and a feeling of, like, jugular.
13:49And the character was a volatile, erratic asshole.
13:59Enough!
14:00People around here understand that when I say no, that's the end of the debate.
14:05I'm not two years out of a dorm room anymore, Charlie. Look around.
14:10You know, the first movie is about the creation of Facebook and how Facebook became Facebook.
14:17This movie is about what has Facebook become.
14:20And I would say that they're kind of companion pieces, in a way, more than a sequel.
14:26I mean, listen, if Facebook were a country, it would be the largest population on Earth by far,
14:32almost four billion people across the meta-platform, so that's half of humankind.
14:38We can't overstate the importance and the power that Mark Zuckerberg has.
14:43My job is to understand the dramatic circumstances that the character is in at the time of the story.
14:52That's it, really.
14:54My job is to become him, but also to have a felt understanding of these frontline decisions that he's having
15:00to make.
15:01It's a movie about a very intentional person and the unintentional consequences of connecting the whole world.
15:09He built these tools that allowed, at this point, four billion people to connect,
15:15that democratized voice, that allowed for the rapid dissemination of information,
15:22that allowed for peer-to-peer connectivity, allowed all these things,
15:27which then we've seen the ways that they have been used, abused, exploited.
15:35My task was to kind of create like a longitudinal record of everything Mark was experiencing in those years.
15:482017 New Yorker essay profile,
15:53Can Mark Zuckerberg fix Facebook before it breaks democracy?
15:57That's what was at stake.
15:59That's the feeling of what's at stake.
16:00For me, there's a ton of source material,
16:06everything from every single one of his own posts on Facebook from the beginning,
16:11smoking meats, everything.
16:13At the point of our story,
16:15he is facing scrutiny.
16:19They're under investigation by the DOJ,
16:22the SEC,
16:24the FBI,
16:25and the FTC.
16:26So that's the kind of crucible of pressure that the character is in.
16:30By 2019,
16:33a hundred billion pieces of information across the platform per day.
16:37So the scale of this thing is just unprecedented in human history.
16:42His task,
16:43which I had to try to, again,
16:45understand,
16:46I'm not weighing in my personal judgment here,
16:50is to balance on the one hand,
16:52free expression
16:54and safety.
16:55I'm a free speech absolutist.
16:58I'm not the one who's lying.
16:59And I'm not stopping them from seeing someone who is.
17:01Having to defend
17:04what he believes
17:06is the goodness of humanity in aggregate
17:08and
17:09the overall social good
17:12of the platforms
17:13in the face of being besieged
17:16and embattled
17:17on every side.
17:19And in this case,
17:20it's the Facebook papers
17:23published by the Wall Street Journal.
17:24This one was scary.
17:26It's scary even talking about it to you,
17:28honestly,
17:29because
17:30the stakes feel very high.
17:33It's very real.
17:34We all have strong feelings
17:36about these issues,
17:39about the mental health
17:41effects
17:42and the mental health impacts
17:43especially on teenagers.
17:45The movie
17:46addresses all of it
17:48and really,
17:49you know,
17:50speaks to
17:50what are,
17:51I think,
17:53some of the most defining issues
17:55of our time.
18:02Secretary Stan
18:03has sent over
18:03to tell you
18:04that as of half an hour ago,
18:05the shelling of Wilmington Harbor
18:06has commenced.
18:07The first time
18:08I saw Daniel
18:09as Lincoln,
18:12we were in Virginia.
18:14Rick Carter,
18:15Stephen's production designer,
18:16had recreated
18:17the White House
18:19incredibly on the soundstage,
18:21like down to the wallpaper.
18:22And I was standing
18:23on the second floor
18:24where the bedrooms are
18:25with David Strathairn
18:26and we saw this stovepipe hat
18:28coming up
18:30the other end of the hall
18:31and then we saw him
18:32and David turned to me
18:34and looked at me
18:34and said,
18:35spirits walk.
18:36And it was like that.
18:37You know,
18:38I got chills.
18:38I got chills now saying it.
18:45You know,
18:45I didn't have a big part.
18:47Every minute
18:47I got to be in that room,
18:49it was a master class.
18:51I had been
18:53Daniel's assistant
18:54on a movie
18:56in my early 20s.
18:58So then I got to
18:59kind of reprise
19:00this role of his assistant
19:01in this movie.
19:03And a lot of the
19:04given circumstances,
19:06which is a feeling
19:07of devotion
19:08to this person
19:09and a desire
19:10to protect them
19:11and shield them
19:12from the demands
19:13around them,
19:14which is what
19:14John Nicolay,
19:15who I play,
19:16you know,
19:17they called him
19:17Cerberus at the gates.
19:18He was somebody
19:21who was there
19:22to kind of be
19:23a bodyguard
19:23and protect Lincoln
19:25because Lincoln
19:26was trying to save
19:27the Union,
19:27you know.
19:28And so it was,
19:30I had to bring
19:31my devotion
19:33and also just read
19:34widely about
19:35the American Civil War.
19:36That's also,
19:37for me,
19:38the greatest joy
19:38is like
19:39the research.
19:41You get to be
19:42a student
19:42of a new world
19:44and it takes you
19:45into this world.
19:46You fill yourself up
19:47with all this
19:49new understanding
19:50and then you hope
19:51that that becomes
19:52the reservoir
19:53that informs
19:54the work you're
19:55going to do.
19:55Abolishing slavery
19:57by constitutional
19:58provision
19:59settles the fate
20:01for all
20:02coming time.
20:04One of the things
20:05that's so amazing
20:06about Stephen,
20:06he comes to work
20:08every day
20:09with what I imagine
20:10is the same
20:11childlike sense
20:14of wonder
20:15and peril
20:16that he might have
20:18felt as a beginner.
20:19Picasso
20:19had to
20:21work his whole life
20:23to draw
20:24with apparent simplicity
20:26that dove,
20:27you know,
20:27or just something
20:28that is apparently
20:29simple.
20:30So with Stephen,
20:32I think you're just
20:33witnessing
20:33that kind of
20:35miraculous level
20:37of creativity
20:38that is
20:40informed by
20:42decades of
20:43mastery.
20:44Mrs. Lincoln's
20:45waiting in the carriage.
20:46She wants me to
20:46remind you of the hour
20:47and then you'll have
20:48to pick up
20:48Ms. Harris
20:49and Major Rathbone.
20:51Daniel,
20:53you know,
20:53that was the first time
20:54I was really watching
20:55somebody
20:56in the room
20:58give a performance
20:59where you don't see
21:01the stitching,
21:01you don't see the work,
21:02you just see a fully
21:04embodied,
21:05you saw
21:06President Lincoln.
21:07But it's like
21:08watching Philip Petit
21:09walk on the
21:11high wire
21:12across the
21:13Twin Towers.
21:14So that was just
21:15like utterly
21:16thrilling for me.
21:24You're a strong man,
21:25not a boy,
21:26okay?
21:26I need you to look
21:27after your brother for me.
21:28Now can you do that?
21:30Okay.
21:30Okay, Dad.
21:32That was the biggest job
21:33I had gotten
21:35by a mile.
21:37It was like
21:37a land hoe
21:38moment for me
21:39having been
21:40in a wilderness
21:41for a long time
21:43and the kind
21:43of character work
21:44that I've always
21:45wanted to do.
21:46I've always,
21:47you know,
21:48my heroes
21:48are these
21:50chameleonic actors
21:51who disappear
21:52into their characters
21:54and to me
21:55that's the holy grail.
21:56You're kind of
21:57searching for something,
21:58you don't know
21:58what it is
21:59that you're searching for,
22:00you're waiting
22:00for something to click
22:01and you have to become
22:02like a detective
22:05and just investigate
22:07everywhere you possibly can.
22:09So I spent a lot of time
22:10at some schools
22:11in L.A.
22:12There was a school
22:13called the Help Group
22:14in Sherman Oaks.
22:15I spent a lot of time
22:16with young people
22:17with autism
22:17and then I met
22:19a certain kid
22:20who worked
22:21in the cafeteria there
22:22and then it kind of
22:23fell into place for me
22:25and he and I
22:25became fairly close.
22:27It wasn't
22:27at the end of the day
22:28like an impersonation
22:30of him
22:30but there was
22:32something there
22:33that unlocked
22:34the character
22:35for me.
22:36Oh, this is St. Francis
22:38I picked
22:39because he was her favorite
22:41friend to the birds
22:42like mom
22:42oh, gotta remember
22:44to put food out
22:45for them
22:46especially in the winter.
22:47I really loved
22:48that character
22:48and also for me
22:50that was a chance
22:51to work with
22:52some great, great actors.
22:54We filmed in Boston
22:56Robert Downey Jr.
22:58Robert Duvall
22:59who we just lost
23:02and
23:07yeah, what a gift
23:08that was
23:09you know
23:11and we had fun
23:12making it
23:15sorry
23:16we were all
23:17kind of sitting
23:18at the feet
23:19of Duvall
23:20because
23:21we all had
23:22such reverence
23:23for him
23:23he was always saying
23:24return to zero
23:25return to zero
23:26start from zero
23:27he liked to say
23:29don't push
23:29and you'll be rewarded
23:30around the corner
23:31so if there's any
23:32young actors
23:33watching this
23:34those are two
23:35those are two real
23:36magic beans
23:37I think.
23:37like maybe St. Joseph
23:39because
23:39he's the patron
23:40of fathers
23:42and it's a St. Joseph
23:43dial down the crazy
23:44now, dial it down
23:45and
23:46the challenge
23:47of going
23:48like way the fuck
23:49out on a limb
23:50for me
23:51with that character
23:53because they're in
23:54a
23:54they're in like
23:55a naturalistic drama
23:57they're in like
23:58you know
23:59long day's journey
24:00into night
24:00or something
24:01and
24:02and I had to
24:03kind of thread
24:03a needle
24:04of
24:05of a character
24:06who's a little bit
24:08tilted
24:08and not quite
24:09in the same
24:10world as them
24:11but try to make
24:12it grounded
24:13and
24:14and
24:15and
24:15and I felt
24:16a responsibility
24:18to
24:18the people
24:20who I had spent
24:20time with
24:21and to
24:22to
24:22what I had come
24:23to learn about
24:24that particular
24:26experience
24:26and struggle
24:27yeah it was a
24:28huge challenge
24:29for me
24:30the stakes were
24:31very high
24:32it was a big
24:32studio movie
24:33it was the first
24:33time I'd had like
24:34a supporting
24:35lead in a
24:36studio movie
24:37your responsibility
24:38I think
24:40is to the
24:40character
24:41and to their
24:42experience
24:43and their
24:44struggle
24:44so I was
24:46playing somebody
24:46in that movie
24:47who
24:49is pretty
24:50straight jacketed
24:51who is not
24:52free
24:52who carries
24:53around a
24:54super 8 camera
24:54as a kind of
24:55security blanket
24:56you know the
24:57world is a very
24:58fraught place
24:59for him
24:59he needs to do
25:00things to self
25:01soothe
25:01and
25:02and
25:02and the
25:03perseverative
25:03behaviors
25:04are his way
25:05of feeling
25:05safe
25:05that's where
25:06I'm living
25:07in in a
25:07in a visceral
25:08way
25:09that's just
25:10for whatever
25:11reason the way
25:12I need to do
25:12it which is
25:15it's the only
25:15reason it's the
25:16only way that I
25:17can believe in
25:17what I'm doing
25:18and ultimately
25:19that's the primary
25:20thing is for me
25:21to believe in it
25:22so whatever I
25:23need to do
25:24whatever it
25:24takes for me
25:25to believe
25:26see the world
25:28through this
25:28person's eyes
25:30that's all that
25:31I'm there to do
25:32there's a thing
25:33in mathematics
25:33called proof
25:34by construction
25:35where basically
25:36you have this
25:37theorem
25:37you have this
25:38idea
25:38and you can
25:39only prove it
25:40by doing it
25:41that was certainly
25:42the case with
25:43Dale Palmer
25:44I don't know
25:45what this is
25:46going to be
25:46I don't know
25:47how this is
25:48going to come
25:48out of me
25:49I'm going to
25:51interrogate this
25:52world as much
25:53as I can
25:54learn as much
25:55as I can
25:55find some
25:57people who
25:57can be a
25:58template for me
25:59in terms of
26:01character
26:01and then I'm
26:03just going to
26:03trust my instincts
26:04and you know
26:05and follow them
26:06out on the
26:07limb
26:08but it certainly
26:09was the first
26:10time I had
26:11done that
26:11in that way
26:12at that level
26:20Good morning
26:22Good morning
26:23to you
26:24Good morning
26:26to you
26:29one of my
26:29favorite directors
26:30James Gray
26:32and yeah
26:33the character
26:33is his father
26:34based on his
26:35father but
26:35essentially it is
26:36his father
26:37and it's his
26:38story
26:38sort of a ghost
26:39story of his
26:40past
26:40you know
26:41James was
26:41resistant at
26:42first to
26:43giving me any
26:44access at all
26:45to his
26:46to his
26:47actual
26:49father
26:49he didn't
26:50want it to
26:51be an
26:52impersonation
26:53or just
26:54something
26:54mimetic
26:55or you know
26:56and of course
26:56I don't want
26:57that either
26:57whatever I'm
26:58going to do
26:59if it's based
27:00on someone
27:00real
27:01I need it
27:02to have a
27:02basis in
27:03truth
27:03I need to
27:03find that
27:04kind of
27:05anchoring point
27:06that was
27:06really a
27:07matter of
27:07like
27:08finding a
27:09way by
27:09hook or
27:10crook
27:10to getting
27:10access
27:11to
27:13James
27:13and his
27:14family
27:14and as
27:15much as
27:15I could
27:16absorb
27:17and
27:18he described
27:19the character
27:20in the script
27:20as a
27:21Jewish
27:22Stanley
27:22Kowalski
27:23with a PhD
27:24you study
27:25something
27:25you can
27:25fall back
27:26on
27:26like
27:27computer
27:28graphics
27:29that's a
27:30growth
27:30industry
27:30there was a
27:31lot that I
27:32got from
27:32the writing
27:33alone
27:33especially
27:35this idea
27:36of a boiler
27:37repairman
27:38somebody who
27:39like this
27:40feeling that
27:40the boiler
27:41was so
27:43pressurized
27:43and at any
27:44moment
27:44might blow
27:45like the
27:47pressure
27:47of a boiler
27:48I was living
27:49in Denmark
27:50I got on
27:51a plane
27:51I met
27:53James
27:53and his
27:54family
27:54he took
27:55me to
27:55the panorama
27:56at the
27:57Queens Museum
27:57that Robert
27:58Moses built
27:59incredible
27:59scale model
28:00of New York
28:01City
28:01that his
28:02father used
28:02to take
28:03him to
28:03I remember
28:04thinking
28:04I had
28:05this idea
28:07of having
28:08him answer
28:09the questions
28:09for the
28:10Proust
28:10questionnaire
28:10as his
28:11father
28:12first
28:13which was
28:13a way
28:14of indirectly
28:15understanding
28:16more about
28:16his father
28:17and then
28:17after that
28:18he let me
28:19do it
28:19with his
28:20father
28:20so I
28:21so I
28:21ended up
28:21having
28:22a kind
28:23of
28:23whole
28:24you know
28:25hours
28:26of
28:26of
28:27of a
28:28kind
28:28of
28:28psychological
28:28profile
28:29of his
28:30dad
28:30and that
28:31became
28:31for me
28:32the
28:32basis
28:33of
28:33everything
28:33I did
28:34I loved
28:34making
28:35that movie
28:35I love
28:36that movie
28:36it's about
28:37our moral
28:39failures
28:39as people
28:40as parents
28:41it's about
28:42our kind
28:42of
28:43passive
28:44complicity
28:45in
28:45injustice
28:46and our
28:48passive
28:48complicity
28:49and racial
28:49injustice
28:50you know
28:51I think
28:51James made
28:52a pretty
28:52fearless
28:53movie
28:53it's not
28:54a flattering
28:55portrait
28:56of a
28:57family
28:57you know
28:58he
28:58he's really
29:00showing you
29:00the truth
29:01and he's
29:02showing you
29:02that love
29:03and harm
29:04can come
29:05from the
29:05same place
29:06you know
29:06this father
29:06is trying
29:07to help
29:08his kids
29:09survive
29:09in what
29:10he sees
29:11as a
29:11dog-eat-dog
29:12world
29:13the first
29:14door
29:14they put
29:14in
29:14was so
29:15loose
29:16that like
29:17I tapped
29:17on it
29:18and it
29:18fell down
29:18so we
29:19had to
29:19cut
29:20because the
29:20scene
29:20doesn't
29:21work
29:21the scene
29:22is about
29:22me trying
29:22to break
29:23down the
29:23door
29:23and then
29:23getting
29:23inside
29:24and then
29:25the second
29:25take
29:26they fasten
29:27the door
29:27so securely
29:29I started
29:30the scene
29:31I started
29:31trying to
29:32break down
29:32the door
29:33and it
29:34wouldn't
29:34budge
29:36and a lot
29:37of directors
29:37at that point
29:38would call
29:38cut
29:38that's what
29:39most directors
29:40I think
29:40would do
29:40but I
29:41didn't hear
29:42cut
29:42so then
29:43you have
29:43to keep
29:44going
29:44so then
29:44I started
29:45throwing myself
29:45at the door
29:46trying to
29:46kick it
29:47down
29:48I'm kind
29:49of losing
29:49my mind
29:49with rage
29:50at this
29:50point
29:51yelling at
29:51the kid
29:52to open
29:52up
29:53and it's
29:54kind of
29:54building
29:54and building
29:55and then
29:56I remembered
29:56that the
29:56house we
29:57were in
29:57had a
29:57basement
29:58and in
29:59the basement
29:59was toolbox
30:01so I
30:01went all
30:01the way
30:02downstairs
30:03and the
30:03cameras inside
30:04the bathroom
30:05still rolling
30:06and I came
30:07back upstairs
30:07and it's
30:08like a few
30:09minutes into
30:09a take
30:10at this
30:10point
30:10and he
30:11still hasn't
30:12cut
30:12and then
30:13I just
30:13like demolished
30:14the door
30:14and broke
30:14it down
30:15and it
30:16unleashed
30:17a violence
30:18and you
30:19know
30:19and that's
30:19what's in
30:19the movie
30:23you want
30:24to touch
30:24the third
30:26rail
30:26when you're
30:27working
30:27so that
30:28was just
30:28an example
30:28of almost
30:30a kind
30:30of Cassavetes
30:31like
30:33way of
30:33working
30:34with James
30:34that I
30:35that I
30:35loved
30:36and felt
30:36so grateful
30:37for
30:37and he's
30:38somebody
30:39that I
30:39want to
30:39keep
30:40working
30:40with
30:40you know
30:41for the
30:41rest of
30:41my life
30:41the game
30:43is rigged
30:44and I want
30:45to take care
30:45of you
30:45and your brother
30:46that's why
30:48listen to what
30:49he's telling you
30:49I am listening
30:50Tony Hopkins
30:51is
30:54what can
30:54you even
30:55say
30:56I had been
30:57a PA
30:57on a movie
30:59that Stephen
31:00made called
31:00Amistad
31:01when I was
31:02a teenager
31:03like
31:04in the sound
31:05department
31:05holding a
31:06boom mic
31:06just because
31:07I didn't come
31:08from a family
31:09that had anything
31:09to do with
31:10any of this
31:10and I wanted
31:12to get near
31:12it and watch
31:13and learn
31:13so I remember
31:15watching Anthony
31:15Hopkins
31:16he played
31:17John Quincy
31:18Adams
31:18in that movie
31:19and I remember
31:20watching him
31:20give this speech
31:21to the Supreme Court
31:22and each take
31:23was like
31:24written in water
31:25so free
31:26so in command
31:29and yeah
31:30and then like
31:30you know
31:31almost 30 years later
31:32I was doing
31:33a film with him
31:33so that was a real
31:34that was really
31:36meaningful to me
31:44tomorrow we go
31:45into court
31:45and we get
31:45ourselves arrested
31:47we're already
31:48arrested
31:49is Bill talking
31:51to you about
31:51taking the stand
31:52as some of
31:53the press guys
31:54are saying
31:54Bill's been
31:54talking to you
31:55about taking
31:55the stand
31:56The Trial of
31:56Chicago 7
31:57was my second
31:58film with Aaron
31:58Haskell Wexler's
31:59documentary
32:00Medium Cool
32:01which is in
32:02Grant Park
32:03in that summer
32:04of 1968
32:05it was scary
32:06and it was
32:07you know
32:08it was like
32:08a totalitarian
32:09police state
32:10happening
32:10in Chicago
32:11Jerry Rubin
32:12was you know
32:13he was notorious
32:14he was a trickster
32:16he was a prankster
32:17he believed in
32:18what he called
32:19the politics
32:19of ecstasy
32:20so for me
32:21it was also
32:22a tonic
32:23living in
32:24and inhabiting
32:24all these really
32:25heavy parts
32:26Jerry was like
32:27high all the time
32:28he went in front
32:29of Huac
32:30dressed as
32:30Santa Claus
32:31he announced
32:32in Daly Plaza
32:34a 150 pound pig
32:36called Pegasus
32:37to run for president
32:38take off the rogues
32:39please
32:45he was making
32:47a mockery of things
32:48because he thought
32:49our justice system
32:51and the war in Vietnam
32:53was a mockery
32:54of justice
32:55was a travesty
32:56of justice
32:56and he was there
32:58to defy
32:59the system
33:00so I also had to
33:02let that live in me
33:03and be a bit
33:05of a live wire
33:05in that sense
33:07and I'm taunting
33:09the judge
33:09who was played
33:10by Frank Langella
33:11you know
33:11everything done
33:12within the bounds
33:14of respect
33:15but you know
33:16you're trying to find
33:17where it lives
33:17and then let it live
33:19noisemakers
33:20and I remember
33:21Aaron calling
33:21Cut once
33:22he was pretty
33:23frustrated with me
33:24he said Cut
33:26one more
33:27without the cowbell
33:28please Jeremy
33:29you know
33:30I think I felt like
33:31if I wasn't being held
33:32in contempt of movie court
33:33a little bit
33:34then I wasn't doing
33:35my job
33:42no matter what happens
33:44no matter what they say
33:46about you
33:46no matter how beaten
33:47you are
33:48you claim victory
33:49and never admit defeat
33:50never admit defeat
33:52Roy Cohn was
33:53kind of a heartbreaking
33:55character for me
33:56even though I don't agree
33:58with just about anything
33:59he ever said or did
34:00I felt like my job
34:02was to find the humanity
34:04in him
34:05that's always your job
34:06really
34:07it's not to judge
34:08it's to
34:09it's to
34:10find the humanity
34:11but you have to come
34:12from a place of understanding
34:13which is not the same
34:14as endorsement
34:15but I do think
34:17you have to understand them
34:18as best you can
34:19he was a closeted homosexual
34:20at a time where
34:22you couldn't be
34:23openly gay
34:24and practice law
34:27so he had to
34:28kind of
34:28stamp out
34:29and kill
34:30a part of himself
34:31which led to a kind
34:33of nihilism
34:35that he
34:36then
34:38turned against the world
34:39and that's a tragedy
34:41I think
34:42that's part of his tragedy
34:43and on the AIDS quilt
34:46the three words
34:47for him
34:47are bully
34:48coward
34:48victim
34:50and I think
34:51they're all true
34:51he'll be convinced
34:52when he reads about it
34:53in the times
34:54okay
34:54well
34:55you create your own reality
34:56it's not that easy
34:57truth is a malleable thing
34:59I think you can't
35:00overstate
35:01the influence
35:02of Roy Cohn
35:04on our world
35:05his shadow
35:07on our world
35:08today
35:10so
35:10it was a
35:11huge challenge
35:13for me
35:13to become him
35:14he's a
35:16both monstrous
35:17and childlike
35:18he's like
35:19part demonic
35:20Peter Pan
35:21part lost boy
35:23part Iago
35:24he had a collection
35:25of frogs
35:26in his bedroom
35:27he was eccentric
35:28he was
35:30gleeful
35:32and he was
35:33absolutely vicious
35:35and brutal
35:36his aggression
35:37his
35:38use of misinformation
35:40it's encoded
35:42in everything
35:43that our president
35:44does
35:45he and Donald Trump
35:47like talked on the phone
35:48ten times a day
35:49for years
35:49they were very close
35:51in a way
35:52Roy was just
35:53discarded
35:53when he got sick
35:54I have liver cancer
35:58which
36:00the
36:01incompatible
36:03I almost
36:04I almost
36:04didn't do it
36:05I remember
36:06a friend of mine
36:07saying to me
36:07what would you do
36:08if you weren't afraid
36:09and then I
36:10said yes
36:11because it just
36:12felt like
36:12it's been done
36:14before by a lot
36:14of great actors
36:15it felt like
36:16such a risk
36:17but then also
36:18you want to run
36:19towards the danger
36:20and
36:22Sebastian
36:22is incredible
36:23in that movie
36:24and
36:25we worked together
36:26really well
36:27and easily
36:28we're both
36:28I think pretty
36:29immersed in what
36:30we're doing
36:30it was a short shoot
36:32we shot in Toronto
36:34you know
36:35we were on our feet
36:36all day
36:37every day
36:38and
36:38you know
36:39I think it's a horror story
36:41that movie
36:41it's like
36:43a cautionary tale
36:44the way
36:45that some of these other movies
36:46are a cautionary tale
36:47Roy's legacy
36:49is really a legacy
36:50of denial
36:51it's like
36:52the denial of the truth
36:54denial of his own truth
36:57and denialism
36:58is something
36:58that I think we're seeing
36:59more and more
37:00in our world
37:01Roy Cohn
37:02you know
37:03as an actor
37:04that role
37:04was
37:05was like a banquet
37:08and as a human being
37:09it was like
37:11staring into
37:12the heart of darkness
37:13for me
37:14it's your birthday
37:16oh well you didn't have
37:17to do that Donald
37:18come on
37:1959
37:20but who's counting
37:21huh
37:22Tiffany Diamonds
37:24the fake
37:25Tiffany cufflinks
37:27was something
37:28that wasn't in the script
37:29originally
37:29but I fought for it
37:31to be in there
37:32because I really thought
37:33that that was
37:35first of all
37:36just an amazing
37:36historical anecdote
37:38because that is true
37:39you know
37:39they were apprised
37:40later by Roy's lover
37:42they were fake
37:44to me
37:45to me
37:45The Apprentice
37:45is a movie
37:46about friendship
37:46ultimately
37:47it's not a political
37:49polemic
37:49it's like
37:50Midnight Cowboy
37:51and that's what
37:51Sebastian and I
37:52were trying to make
37:53and we reference
37:54Midnight Cowboy a lot
38:01whether or not
38:02you believe
38:03in this particular album
38:05in this office
38:08my office
38:10we believe
38:11in Bruce Springsteen
38:13John Landau
38:15is
38:16you know
38:16such a character
38:17and so
38:18a lot of the work
38:19was about
38:20getting to know
38:21John
38:22he was a famous
38:23rock critic
38:24founding rock critic
38:25of Rolling Stone
38:26he wrote an article
38:27that said
38:28I've seen
38:29Rock and Roll's future
38:30and its name is
38:30Bruce Springsteen
38:31and it was kind of
38:32the shot
38:32heard around the world
38:33that changed his trajectory
38:35and Bruce's trajectory
38:36and John has been
38:38you know
38:38the Lewis to Bruce's Clark
38:40on this 50 year journey
38:41and he's been
38:42the steady hand
38:43and a guide
38:43and in a way
38:44an architect
38:45of Bruce's musical expression
38:48especially in the early years
38:49where this movie
38:50takes place
38:51and
38:52you know
38:53they're both
38:54they both said
38:55this ain't a job
38:57this ain't a business
38:57this is a reason to live
38:59that's how they feel
39:00about music
39:01that's how I feel
39:02about acting
39:02a lot of that
39:04was in place for me already
39:05when you start to
39:07unfurl
39:08the
39:09miraculous body of work
39:11that is
39:12Bruce Springsteen's
39:13body of work
39:13it's very easy
39:15to want to
39:16devote your life
39:17to supporting
39:18that person
39:19and to helping them
39:21realize their vision
39:22I remember
39:23first time
39:24going to see
39:25Bruce play
39:26in a field
39:27in Denmark
39:28I was watching
39:29John watch the concert
39:30from the sound booth
39:31it was almost like
39:3380% of the information
39:35the emotional information
39:36that I needed
39:37to play the role
39:38I got that very first night
39:40watching John
39:41watch him
39:42because he's seen him
39:44thousands of times
39:45the passion that he feels
39:47for their ongoing
39:49project
39:50is
39:50is not diminished
39:52and
39:52and
39:53it's really beautiful
39:54their relationship
39:55is beautiful
39:56they're like brothers
39:57there's a
39:58there's a
39:58and that movie was about
40:00that brotherhood to me
40:01it was about this friendship
40:02where you come from
40:04is gone
40:06and where you thought
40:08you were going to
40:09was never there
40:10there's a scene
40:11in that movie
40:12that I really love
40:14John goes to
40:15Bruce's house
40:16in Colts Neck
40:18New Jersey
40:19where he's about
40:20to go off
40:20on this road trip
40:21and John can
40:22sense that something
40:24is wrong
40:25and that there's been
40:26a darkening
40:26in Bruce's spirit
40:27and he's listened
40:28to the demos
40:29for Nebraska
40:30and he feels like
40:31his friend is not okay
40:33and there was
40:34a scripted scene
40:35where they sort of
40:36said those things
40:37out loud to each other
40:38but knowing them
40:39the way I'd gotten
40:40to know them
40:41it felt like
40:42maybe it wouldn't
40:43be so overt
40:45so I texted
40:46Bruce and John
40:47the night before
40:48the scene
40:49and I had read
40:50in one of the
40:52biographies
40:52or maybe in
40:53David Remnick's
40:53article
40:54that Bruce and John
40:55used to play records
40:56for each other
40:57like all night long
40:57that's their love language
40:59that's the way
40:59they communicate
41:00and so I thought
41:01maybe John should
41:02just put on a
41:03record
41:04instead of saying
41:05anything
41:05he should just
41:06play him a song
41:07and I
41:09kind of pitched
41:10that idea
41:10to Bruce
41:11and he started
41:12sending me ideas
41:13for a song
41:14and it was like
41:1410 o'clock
41:1511 o'clock at night
41:16the night before
41:17we shot the scene
41:17and none of them
41:19were quite right
41:20and then I texted
41:21him saying
41:22what song
41:24would you play
41:25if you wanted
41:26to save your
41:26friend's life
41:27and then he sent
41:28me this idea
41:29of Sam Cooke
41:31and the Soul Stirrers
41:32the last mile
41:32of the way
41:33and I put it on
41:34it was just
41:35immediately clear
41:36that that's
41:36what it needed
41:37to be
41:38so emotionally
41:39huge
41:39and it's about
41:40going through
41:41a dark valley
41:42before you reach
41:43the promised land
41:44so the next day
41:45we shot the scene
41:46as scripted
41:47but then I'd had
41:48the props department
41:50prepare a cassette
41:51and I asked
41:52the director
41:53and Jeremy
41:53if I could just
41:54try something
41:56let's just listen
41:57and put that song
41:59on
41:59and you know
42:00and that ended up
42:01being what's in the movie
42:02but it felt
42:03spiritual
42:04in a way that
42:05John and Bruce's
42:06relationship
42:06is spiritual
42:07and Bruce's
42:08music is spiritual
42:10to me that is like
42:12the Goldilocks place
42:14where
42:15this medium
42:16is a collaborative medium
42:18where you are
42:20walking a razor's edge
42:21and making discoveries
42:23that are alive
42:24that's
42:25that's the juice
42:26Bruce once said
42:27the real question
42:28is how deeply
42:28can you inhabit
42:29your song
42:30and that's
42:30that's what you're
42:31trying to do
42:31as an actor
42:32you're trying to
42:33inhabit each song
42:34as deeply as you can
42:35whether that song
42:36is Jerry Rubin
42:38or Kendall Roy
42:38or Mark Zuckerberg
42:40you know
42:41or Vinnie Daniel
42:42or any of these
42:43things we're talking about
42:44somehow I've found myself
42:46working on things
42:47that are right at the axis
42:49of our historical moment
42:51and the zeitgeist
42:52and I find that
42:53exciting
42:54and I feel very fortunate
42:56to be getting
42:57to do these parts
42:58going to buy
42:58and it'll be
42:58and it'll be
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