00:00Okay, my first guest tonight is someone who knows Prashant Kishore very well.
00:04He was still recently a part of the Jan Suraj Party.
00:07Author and diplomat Pavan Verma joins us.
00:10Mr. Verma, decode the PK factor for us.
00:13Someone who was wiped out in the Bihar Assembly elections last November,
00:16got zero seats, now wins a major by-election in a BJP citadel.
00:22Explain the PK factor because you know him very well, very intimately.
00:30Thank you, Rajdeep.
00:32I'd like to congratulate Prashant.
00:35Actually, not only are we good friends, but he's like a younger brother, almost a member of my family.
00:40And although I'm not with Jan Suraj or any other political party,
00:44I would like to say that this victory is definitely due to his tenacity,
00:52his hard work, and his organizational capabilities.
00:56For a person who had been decimated in 2025 to pick up the courage of conviction
01:03to fight an Assembly election against what was the citadel of the BJP
01:10and the seat vacated by the president of the party was not, I'm sure, an easy decision.
01:15So I first of all like to congratulate Prashant for having decided to do so.
01:21And most analysts did not believe that he would be able to breach this citadel.
01:27Secondly, just analyzing the election apolitically as an observer and someone in public life,
01:35I find it a little inexplicable why the BJP put up such a lackluster candidate.
01:43There was something amiss in the manner in which a candidate was first selected,
01:49then midway a candidate was changed,
01:51and against a person as strong enough as Prashant Kishore to have someone who is a lackluster candidate,
01:59in my view, might have played a role and the BJP is of course best able to answer that question.
02:09Can I just stop you for a moment?
02:11What, according to you, though, makes Prashant Kishore so distinctive?
02:14You're saying the lackluster candidate of the BJP made a difference,
02:18but I want to understand, decode the PK factor for us.
02:22What is his USP?
02:25The USP of Prashant, without doubt, is that he is a meticulous political strategist.
02:35So if he plans to go into an election, there is, with the aid of the best technology available,
02:43a plan, an algorithmic map, a strategy, a campaign.
02:49I mean, this I have seen Prashant doing over the last 12 years, since I have known him.
02:56Not only in Bihar, where we work together, but in other states.
03:00That is his USP.
03:03And it is planned in a manner which moves towards a goal which has been predefined,
03:11with set goals which are then verified at every step.
03:14But is he a bit of a one-man show?
03:17That will he be actually able to build a team, work with others?
03:21Is he going to be able to scale up?
03:24Yes, he's won this one big victory, but can he scale up and become a challenger
03:28to the BJP, both in Bihar and possibly try and expand beyond Bihar?
03:33Is that really feasible?
03:36Well, in my view, while it is still a one-electoral victory which puts him in the legislature,
03:44we have to still see to what extent he's a team leader.
03:49But certainly I can make an essay, I can essay a possibility in Bihar.
03:54You see, the RJD is for the marginalized.
03:57The BJP, the expectation that the RJD may cut into Prashant Kishore's vote,
04:01and especially the minority votes may not go to him, did not fructify.
04:05The minority backs the second-strongest candidate against the BJP.
04:10With the RJD reduced, you also have a JDU, which is slightly, slightly wobbly.
04:19I mean, Nitish Kumar's absence.
04:22And the fact that currently the JDU, which is largely an EBC and OBC-dominated party,
04:28which is the legacy of Nitish Kumar, is now led by three upper-caste leaders.
04:33Lallan Singh, Sanjay Jha, Vijay Chodh.
04:36Where does the restiveness in the JDU go?
04:40We have to see what happens in the future.
04:42So that is another angle, in my view, to it.
04:47But the elimination or the further reduction of the RJD
04:50is both a victory for Prashant and, in a sense,
04:53something as a desirable goal for the BJP.
04:57So, what is your sense of Prashant's own self-image?
05:01Is he a political disruptor?
05:03Does he have that overweening ambition to become a major leader,
05:08not be seen as a consultant?
05:09And therefore, is that what is driving him after that big defeat in 2025?
05:13What is driving Prashant Kishore to become this,
05:17to take on, in a way, the BJP today?
05:23Well, Rajdeep, to be honest, there is ambition in politics.
05:27There is a desire to succeed.
05:29I have worked with a lot of the top leaders
05:31and this is common to all of them.
05:33But in the case of Prashant,
05:36there is also, in my view, a genuine concern
05:39for what can be done for Bihar.
05:42Bihar is by far one of the poorest and the most backward states.
05:46And during the Jan Suraj campaign,
05:48the entire message of Jan Suraj was that
05:51Bihar needs to break from that strangle.
05:54So, there is a commitment to Bihar.
05:57The setback for the Jan Suraj party in 2025
06:01made him pause to think how he can begin the journey again.
06:05Now, it's a first step.
06:06Now, we have to see how he proceeds.
06:08Before that, very large conclusions.
06:11Because, you know, Mr. Verma,
06:14there are critics who say that Prashant Kishore
06:15is actually the B team of the BJP.
06:17I know Congress leaders who say he's a mole,
06:20that he still has a special relationship
06:21with Narendra Modi, for whom he worked for.
06:24How do you respond?
06:25Is Prashant Kishore someone who still
06:27enjoys a special relationship with the BJP
06:30for all what he says in public?
06:34I wouldn't say a special relationship.
06:37I would say that he has worked for the BJP in the past,
06:41but that rupture was public
06:44and has now carried on for some time.
06:47The one thing in politics, Rajdeep,
06:49you can't predict is what will happen in the future.
06:53Certainly, he has no truck with the RJD.
06:55Certainly, in Bihar, Congress doesn't exist.
06:57So, how Prashant charters his course for the future?
07:02All parties almost are accused in the opposition
07:05of being part...
07:06The point I'm making, Mr. Verma,
07:09is does Prashant Kishore have any ideology?
07:11What is his ideology?
07:12Someone who's worked with Narendra Modi,
07:13then switches to Nitish Kumar,
07:15one day works with Mamata Banerjeev,
07:17then with Amrinder Singh,
07:18then with Jagan Mohan,
07:19various leaders.
07:20What is Prashant Kishore's own ideology?
07:24Very simply put,
07:26there was no ideology necessarily in the past
07:30when he was working purely as a political strategist.
07:34But after he founded Jan Saraj
07:37and entered the political arena,
07:38he has an ideology,
07:41which I can sum up in one sentence.
07:45The improvement and upliftment of Bihar and Biharis.
07:50That is his first and clearest goal.
07:53And that will be his window to national politics also.
07:57Okay.
07:58Pavan Verma, for joining me there
08:00and trying to decode the PK factor,
08:02thank you very much.
08:03I just want to expand this for a moment.
Comments