- 2 weeks ago
Kerala Chief Minister VD Satheesan said he was deeply concerned over the Union government’s reported plan to introduce the Delimitation Bill in Parliament, arguing that southern states that successfully controlled population growth could suffer the most in any seat redistribution.
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00:05Music
00:16For nearly a decade, he was the voice of opposition in Keralim.
00:21In that role, he held the government to account.
00:25Today, he is the government.
00:27Our guest on Jab We Met is a grassroots Congress leader
00:32who has been unbeaten at the ballot since 2001.
00:36I am at the iconic Cliff House in Thiruvananthpuram
00:40to meet the new Keralim Chief Minister.
00:54Mr. Satishan, your day begins very early.
00:575.30 in the morning, usually.
01:00Then I have to be there at my office at 8 o'clock.
01:05Every day you reach office by 8?
01:06If I am in Thiruvananthpuram,
01:09almost all the weekdays I will be in Thiruvananthpuram.
01:11Now, the initial days, traveling less,
01:14because I have to take many decisions at the initial stage,
01:18many meetings.
01:19In the morning time, the meeting will be good.
01:22So, we are at this legendary place, which is the Chief Minister's residence.
01:28It's an old building.
01:30What's your memory of any of the Chief Ministers of the past?
01:33When I was a law college student in Thiruvananthpuram,
01:37I came here.
01:38Mr. K. Kerenagaran, he was the Chief Minister of Kerala.
01:43We used to come here.
01:44We used to meet him also.
01:46Memory of the Cliff House is connected with K. Kerenagaran.
01:49It's been two months now since you took charge.
01:52Yes.
01:53You brought UDF out of 10 years of wilderness.
01:58How do you see these two months?
02:01And have you been able to achieve what you set out for?
02:06No, no. We have started. Just started.
02:09Then the fiscal situation of Kerala is very vulnerable.
02:12So, we decided to bring a white paper on fiscal health of the state.
02:18That was not a political statement.
02:21But it became a political statement.
02:23No. It was an authentic document to go forward.
02:27Everybody should know what is the fiscal situation of Kerala.
02:3277% to 80% of our revenue is inevitable expenditure, committed expenditure.
02:39Salary, pension and interest of the debts.
02:42When we are getting 100 rupees, we can use only 20 or 22 rupees for development as well as the
02:50welfare activities.
02:52Huge debt. More than 5,07,000 crews.
02:56Yes, I have that number.
02:58Immediate debt is 87,000 crews.
03:01So, we have to fill the exchequer.
03:04Then only we will be able to implement welfare projects as well as the development projects.
03:10Fiscal health that you are speaking about.
03:12Yes.
03:13Isn't that a huge challenge?
03:14Yes.
03:15It is not a huge challenge.
03:16Because we have decided how to correct this fiscal health.
03:20How to improve the fiscal health.
03:22One thing is better financial management.
03:26Second thing is to prevent the leakage from the exchequer.
03:30When we are planning a project, it has to be completed within 2 years for 100 crores.
03:36Nothing is happening.
03:38It may take 5 to 10 years.
03:41Then it may cost 100 crores to 1000 crores.
03:45This is a leakage from the exchequer.
03:47So, we are planning to make a protocol for the project implementation.
03:54Time frame should be there.
03:55Our major advantage is that we have 600 kilometers coastal line.
04:00Two international seaports.
04:03One container terminal.
04:06And 17 plus 1 mini ports.
04:10We are planning to integrate all the ports and make entire Caroline to a port city.
04:16You are a man on a mission.
04:18But tell me, have you given yourself some time in terms of kind of a timeline?
04:23You say that you are almost like a CEO.
04:26Your functioning is like a CEO.
04:28We are preparing our policies in connection with the port.
04:31And there is an aviation project also.
04:34We have 4 international airports within a close proximity.
04:38So, we have declared 27 projects.
04:422 airports are controlled by the state government also.
04:46So, we have to make investments there.
04:49Private investments there.
04:50Government is not going to run the show.
04:53Government should be a facilitator.
04:54We don't have the money.
04:56You are accepting that you don't have the money.
04:58Then how are you planning to implement all the welfare schemes that you had promised?
05:03We have many economic models for bringing projects.
05:07For example, in some places we will provide land.
05:11That is our equity.
05:12Then the investments.
05:13There is a large diaspora of Malayalis across the world.
05:17You are reaching out to the diaspora.
05:18Especially in Gulf.
05:19Remittance economy is there.
05:21Remittance is the backbone of our economy.
05:24But it is not used for state development.
05:28So, we want to make the remittance economy to investment economy.
05:33They will participate.
05:35We have made a model.
05:36So, this is all part of the New Age Keralam that you have thought about?
05:40Correct.
05:41Okay.
05:41So, let's talk about the demographic change that you are talking about.
05:45Yes.
05:46What is it that you are seeing?
05:48That demographic dividend youngsters number is becoming very thin.
05:54And our life expectancy is too high compared with the other states.
05:59And the senior citizens number is increasing.
06:03And the projection in 2036 is it will be 38 percentage.
06:08That will be the double of the projected thing of the national average.
06:16So, we have decided to start a department for senior citizens.
06:22First time in India.
06:23Let's talk about Gen Z because there have been efforts that have been made by your government
06:28to reach out to the Gen Z in particular because you are concerned about migration.
06:31The startup fund and the other plans of New Age Kerala.
06:37What is this New Age Kerala concept?
06:40There are two, three plans.
06:41First of all, the migration is a huge number of brain drain is happening.
06:47So, we have to start good academic programs here.
06:52So, we declared a global job watch term.
06:56We are going to appoint experts in various sectors from inside and outside the country.
07:01They will observe various sectors what is happening there.
07:05Then they will report to the government.
07:07According to their report, we will restructure the curriculum.
07:10We will start new academic programs.
07:12Not all, but 80% of the courses are outdated here.
07:17So, they are not getting any job.
07:19So, new academic programs should be there.
07:21So, tell me there are certain criticisms of what has been achieved by your government so far.
07:27Particularly the lowering of the alcohol tax.
07:31Yes.
07:32You faced criticism.
07:34You said that that's a continuity or a decision which was taken by your predecessor.
07:38You have continued that.
07:39Yes.
07:40If you are having such plans for your state, how will you implement it if you are not able to
07:45manage the fiscal health?
07:46As a finance minister, we have to fix the tax.
07:50We have to fix the tax.
07:52We fix the tax above the beer and wine.
07:55That is 120% for 0.5 to 10% and up to 20% it will be 175%.
08:04Hard liquor it is 250.
08:06The last government fixed the foreign made foreign liquor.
08:11But it is below the beer and wine.
08:11They fixed the tax below the beer and average.
08:15Beer it is 150% and wine is 86%.
08:22Below the wine and beer, they fixed the tax for the foreign made foreign liquor.
08:2978% then they made it 150.
08:33But it is below the beer and wine.
08:36How can they fix the alcoholic and then this 40 to 60%?
08:41There is no justification for their argument.
08:44Now we have not decided whether it should be sold in Kerala.
08:52Because that is a political decision of the liquor policy.
08:56That we are planning to make a liquor policy.
09:00But there should be a tax.
09:01When a category is fixed, there should be a tax.
09:04Nothing more.
09:05It is going to be 8 o'clock sir.
09:07You have to head to your secretariat and the company you use.
09:10Okay, thank you.
09:39Let's continue with our conversation.
09:41We are in the secretariat now.
09:43The Wynard landslide which happened.
09:46Yes.
09:46Your own colleagues in the cabinet called it a man made disaster.
09:51Yes.
09:52It is almost like a tragedy which Kerala visits every year.
09:57No, no.
09:58There was a tunnel project.
10:01In the last government's time it was started.
10:05Now I am going to, I am not going to say anything about that.
10:09We have appointed a technical committee to enquire into the reasons for the landslide and other things.
10:18We have to check.
10:20When we appointed a committee, there is an impropriety to say anything about the landslide.
10:26From my side.
10:27Okay.
10:28You know, your predecessor Pinarai Vijayan used to skip Neeti Aayog meetings.
10:34You went for the meeting.
10:36We are told you did a presentation.
10:38Your own friend from, fellow of the Congress party, the chief minister of Karnataka, Mr. D.K.
10:46Shiv Kumar praised your presentation.
10:48What's your view on cooperative federalism?
10:52Cooperative federalism is a constitutional, within the constitution.
10:57Where the center is getting tax amount, this is from the states.
11:02For example, the GST, we are providing 50% of our GST to center.
11:08And income tax, they are getting the income tax also.
11:12Excise duty also.
11:14So the devolution of taxes is very important in cooperative federalism.
11:19For example, in the 10th finance commission, we got 3.5% of the total devolution, total amount.
11:27Then the 15th finance commission, it was reduced to 1.92.
11:32So I was the leader of opposition here.
11:35When the 16th finance commission came to Kerala, we also made a presentation, the opposition.
11:40Many places, we have our own very good social indicators.
11:44Now we are penalized.
11:46Because in certain areas, we have progress.
11:50It should not be penalized.
11:52The devolution of taxes should be fair and free and fair.
11:55That was my request.
11:57In the Nidhi Aayog meeting.
12:01Okay.
12:01Sir, you know, in the run-up to your announcement as the face of the Congress party in Kerala,
12:09there was a lot of speculation.
12:11They were central leaders in the race.
12:13They were veteran leaders of the Congress party also as contenders for your chair.
12:20What was the backstory?
12:22That is quite natural.
12:24There are so many leaders in the Congress party, those who are capable to become the chief minister.
12:31They are efficient also.
12:33But they have to select one chief minister.
12:36There is a process in our party.
12:39They have high command appointed observers to Kerala.
12:42They have discussed with MLA's, MP's and senior leaders.
12:47Then they have taken a decision.
12:49I am not saying that I am the only person, competent person to be the chief minister.
12:55There are leaders.
12:56There are leaders, those who are seniors to me also in the party.
13:03Who is your biggest backer?
13:06Sonia Gandhi, Priyanka Gandhi or Rahul Gandhi?
13:09They are all supporting me, all the leaders.
13:10They know me.
13:11I was working in the AACC 10, 12 years back.
13:16And my name is proposed many times for the PCC Presidentship.
13:20Many things also.
13:21I have been in the assembly for the last 25 years.
13:24I never became a minister in the 25 years.
13:28I have been representing my same constituency for the last 25 years.
13:32There were two governments in between that.
13:34But I was not a minister.
13:36But I was in the party in 2021.
13:38They gave me the leader of opposition, the CLP leadership.
13:42Then they interested me to bring back the UDF to power.
13:47That was my assignment.
13:48Then we worked hard.
13:50Not alone.
13:51As a team.
13:53UDF is now known as Team UDF.
13:57Our team UDF is a model to the entire nation for the coalition politics.
14:03But we have seen largely that the Congress's biggest challenge is factionalism.
14:09The division within the state.
14:11There was Team Chenithala, Team KC Venugopal and then your team.
14:17Mr. A. K. Anthony was the Chief Minister of Kerala at the age of 36.
14:24Then the senior leader, K. Karanagaran became the Chief Minister.
14:28A. K. Anthony again became the Chief Minister.
14:30Then when Karanagaranji and Anthony was there, another leader, Umbanjandi, he became the Chief Minister of Kerala.
14:39This is happening in the Congress party.
14:42How do you look at the BJP in Kerala?
14:45The reason why I am asking is that BJP may be at three right now.
14:50But they are trying very hard to expand their footprints in Kerala.
14:55It is similar to what they did in Bengal.
14:59Long wait, being continuously at work.
15:02First they make a shift to opposition and then they come to power.
15:06Is BJP a force to reckon with in Kerala or are you completely discounting them?
15:11No, I am not discounting any political parties. That is unfair.
15:15But I don't think that the BJP will come to Kerala just like what happened in Bengal or Uttirburiya.
15:24Kerala's psyche is different.
15:26The majority of Kerala's are secular.
15:30They don't accept any communal parties.
15:33They don't accept.
15:35They won three seats only because of the CPM.
15:38They won the Trivandran Corporation only because of the CPM.
15:41There was an unholy nexus between the BJP.
15:45CPM and BJP had.
15:46That was our allegation.
15:48Our allegation.
15:49You see these three seats.
15:51Last time won by senior CPM leaders with a big margin.
15:57They were defeated this time.
15:59They gave three seats to BJP on a silver platter because of their deal.
16:05You are saying that there is some kind of unholy nexus between CPM and the BJP.
16:10CPM accuses you of having some kind of unholy nexus because Pinaray Vijayan was raided.
16:18It is a case registered by the EED.
16:21What is the role of the state government or the Congress party conducting right by the EED?
16:27After becoming the chief minister, all chief ministers will go to Delhi and meet the prime ministers.
16:33They are spreading the news that I asked.
16:36Then I said in the press conference that when I met first time the prime minister, Marendra Modi ji,
16:43I asked to raid Pinaray Vijayan's house.
16:46Is it correct?
16:48Timing was a suspect.
16:49It is being said that why did it happen immediately after you taking charge?
16:53What is the relation with the state government and the EED investigation?
16:57EED is raiding all the Congress leaders and non-BJP governments across the state.
17:03Do you track your social media?
17:05You are, you trend a lot on social media, particularly on Instagram.
17:10We have to watch what is happening around us.
17:12If I am saying that, no I am not looking at social media, it should be a lie.
17:18Gen Z in particular?
17:19But social media is going very worse in other terms.
17:23Why do you say that?
17:24Because the women are attacked very badly in social media.
17:28And the social media can whitewash a person who is a culprit.
17:35I think there is a verdict of the Supreme Court.
17:39You cannot control the social media.
17:42I think this is the right time to file a review petition before the Supreme Court and to control it.
17:49You want to control social media?
17:50We want to control.
17:52It should be controlled.
17:53So many persons are misusing social media.
17:57Attacking the political leaders or the chief minister is not a problem to us.
18:01But attacking the women very badly.
18:05Trolling of women you are talking about?
18:07Trolling of women.
18:08Bad language being used.
18:09Somebody is committing suicide.
18:11Anybody can attack.
18:13Anybody can attack.
18:15You follow Gen Z?
18:16Yes.
18:16How they are working?
18:17How they respond to you?
18:19Sure.
18:20Otherwise, there should be a generation gap between me and the Gen Z.
18:24You don't know?
18:25I used to interact with them.
18:27I know their vocabulary.
18:28Gen Z word for nostalgia, they are saying Nostu.
18:31Nostu.
18:32Ah, you know that.
18:33Yeah.
18:33And they are always saying that there is vibe.
18:37Vibe.
18:37Vibe.
18:38That is a Gen Z word.
18:39There are so many words.
18:40I like that.
18:41There was that picture of yours or face expression which went viral, which was called Pukki CM.
18:47I have declared before the election that there should be some liberty to make the vehicle modification.
18:57Very strict rules are there.
19:01I said that it should be more liberal.
19:04It was my organic expression.
19:06I cannot imitate now.
19:08Is there a book that has shaped you and your politics?
19:11It was in the college.
19:13I read glimpses of world history.
19:17It was not a prose.
19:19It was poetic.
19:20Then I started to read.
19:22It inspired me a lot.
19:24Then I started to read the history books.
19:27And then finance.
19:29When I was an MLA.
19:302001.
19:31I was a lawyer.
19:33Then I watched what is happening in the assembly.
19:37Two things.
19:38One constitutional legal things.
19:40Second financial things.
19:41I didn't know anything about the finance.
19:44Then I started to study the tax and everything.
19:49For the last 25 years, I have been learning the tax, the finance.
19:54And I used to read the books.
19:56The latest books.
19:57I used to update everything.
19:59So you learned finance.
20:00Without education.
20:01Yes.
20:01Without education.
20:02On your own.
20:02Yeah.
20:0325 years.
20:04Still.
20:05As a finance minister, still I am trying to learn.
20:09Mr. Satishan, I know you are in the middle of your meetings.
20:12So I am not going to bother you much.
20:14But I will join you back at around 3.34 when you are with your Janata.
20:193 o'clock.
20:193 o'clock.
20:20I will be back with you.
20:43Mr. Satishan, every day when you are in Thiruvananthpuram, you hold this Janata Darbal.
20:49For the last two hours, I have been seeing you interact with people, particularly women.
20:54You know, there is a shift in your own style.
20:56You were a very combative leader of opposition to now a man who is trying to be an accessible
21:01chief minister.
21:02What is more important?
21:04A man who is accessible or a man who delivers?
21:07I have been doing this exercise for a long time.
21:10As an MLA, I started this in my constituency when I became the leader of opposition.
21:16Wherever I went, I used to interact with the people.
21:22The problem is that there are so many individual issues.
21:25With a phone call, with an interference, we can solve that issue.
21:29Same issue, more than 10 persons are representing.
21:34Then we have to understand that this is a common issue, not an individual issue.
21:40So, we have to take actions.
21:43So, this is from the horse mouth.
21:45We are getting information, direct feedback.
21:49A couple of hot-button issues right now, particularly with the monsoon session of parliament now in action.
21:56There is the sense that the delimitation bill could come up, which will increase the overall number of MPs from
22:03Kerala from 20 to 30.
22:05We have seen southern states all unite, saying that this is unfair on them.
22:11What are your thoughts?
22:11Congress party has expressed our displeasure.
22:15The delimitation, with the delimitation process, they are doing this thing.
22:19Southern states will suffer.
22:22Totally, the number of representatives will be from the north.
22:27From the south, our population is reducing.
22:32Because we have conducted family planning according to the directions of the central governments.
22:38So, when they are increasing the number of MPs, that should be disproportional to the south and north.
22:45You are concerned about that?
22:46I am.
22:47We are concerned about that.
22:48What will be our representation in the parliament in the future?
22:51You tweeted about that the central government must take note of what Rahul Gandhi is saying vis-a-vis the
23:01corruption allegations,
23:02which has to do with the Ramjanambhumi Tirath Shetra Trust.
23:05Yes.
23:05There is an SIT which has been set up.
23:08Arrests have been made as well.
23:10You are someone who is seen as a believer, a follower of Hinduism.
23:15What are your thoughts with regards to that?
23:18It has to be investigated very seriously.
23:21It was a fraud.
23:22There are so many devotees, those who are coming from various parts of India to Ayodhya.
23:27Because Ayodhya is a place in Ramayana.
23:31It is a birthplace of Sri Rama.
23:35And what was the control of the government over there?
23:37Across the country there are good models in temples just like in Tiripati model.
23:42But unfortunately, the devotees are giving money there and somebody is taking away this money.
23:51Nobody is looking after.
23:52Are you promising also a proper investigation now that the SIT which was investigating the Sabrimala theft has submitted its
24:01report to the High Court?
24:03It is under the control of the Honorable High Court.
24:06We have no role.
24:07But we have supported all the officers, those who are working in the police, to investigate too seriously.
24:14We will not intervene.
24:15The investigation.
24:16The last government was trying to intervene and they were putting pressure on the officers constituted by the SIT, constituted
24:26by the Honorable High Court.
24:27The High Court can independently investigate into the matter through the SIT.
24:33We won't intervene.
24:35We will never put pressure on the members of the SIT.
24:38Alright, Mr. VD Satishan.
24:39Thank you for your time.
24:41And I am going to leave you among your people.
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