- 2 days ago
When you ask Stewart Copeland about his drumming, he says he likes to “bang stuff.” Well his art of “banging stuff” has made him one of the most important and influential drummers and artists of all time.
He’s a composer, an innovator, and a musical force who helped redefine what a rock drummer could do — and on this episode of Joann Butler In Studio With…, we sat down with the seven-time Grammy winner to talk about all of it.
Copeland walks us through how The Police came together, what first drew him to Sting, why he was convinced the band had to stay a three-piece, and how those early instincts shaped one of rock’s most iconic groups. He also gets candid about where he is now, telling us he considers himself “kind of retired from show business” — still making music, still performing, but only for the projects that genuinely excite him.
Life beyond The Police: The “Have I Said Too Much” tour
Stepping back from the traditional grind of the industry hasn’t stopped Copeland from connecting with audiences — it’s just changed the format.
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee is bringing his first North American spoken-word tour, “Have I Said Too Much – The Police, Hollywood, and Other Adventures,” to cities across the country.
Expect personal stories, photos, video, and live audience Q&A — a genuine behind-the-scenes look at a career that spans from the formation of The Police to his adventures well beyond music.
How Stewart Copeland formed The Police
One of our favorite moments in the conversation is Copeland’s own account of how The Police came to be. We asked him what caught his attention about Sting, why he pushed for a three-piece lineup, and how guitarist Andy Summers completed the chemistry that defined the band’s sound. His answer is part strategy, part instinct — a mix of practical thinking and the musical influences that shaped one of rock’s greatest bands.
The Police album that means the most to him
When we asked Copeland which Police record means the most to him, he didn’t hesitate: Reggatta de Blanc. He tells us why that era marked a creative high point for the band, and why the album still holds a special place for him decades later.
The legacy of one of rock’s most innovative drummers
Across the whole conversation, Copeland brings the humor, honesty, and hard-won wisdom of a decades-long career — giving us an inside look at the music, friendships, and choices that built his legacy.
Watch the full interview with Stewart Copeland on Joann Butler In Studio With..., for more info on his speaking tour “Have I Said Too Much” visit StewartCopeland.net.
He’s a composer, an innovator, and a musical force who helped redefine what a rock drummer could do — and on this episode of Joann Butler In Studio With…, we sat down with the seven-time Grammy winner to talk about all of it.
Copeland walks us through how The Police came together, what first drew him to Sting, why he was convinced the band had to stay a three-piece, and how those early instincts shaped one of rock’s most iconic groups. He also gets candid about where he is now, telling us he considers himself “kind of retired from show business” — still making music, still performing, but only for the projects that genuinely excite him.
Life beyond The Police: The “Have I Said Too Much” tour
Stepping back from the traditional grind of the industry hasn’t stopped Copeland from connecting with audiences — it’s just changed the format.
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee is bringing his first North American spoken-word tour, “Have I Said Too Much – The Police, Hollywood, and Other Adventures,” to cities across the country.
Expect personal stories, photos, video, and live audience Q&A — a genuine behind-the-scenes look at a career that spans from the formation of The Police to his adventures well beyond music.
How Stewart Copeland formed The Police
One of our favorite moments in the conversation is Copeland’s own account of how The Police came to be. We asked him what caught his attention about Sting, why he pushed for a three-piece lineup, and how guitarist Andy Summers completed the chemistry that defined the band’s sound. His answer is part strategy, part instinct — a mix of practical thinking and the musical influences that shaped one of rock’s greatest bands.
The Police album that means the most to him
When we asked Copeland which Police record means the most to him, he didn’t hesitate: Reggatta de Blanc. He tells us why that era marked a creative high point for the band, and why the album still holds a special place for him decades later.
The legacy of one of rock’s most innovative drummers
Across the whole conversation, Copeland brings the humor, honesty, and hard-won wisdom of a decades-long career — giving us an inside look at the music, friendships, and choices that built his legacy.
Watch the full interview with Stewart Copeland on Joann Butler In Studio With..., for more info on his speaking tour “Have I Said Too Much” visit StewartCopeland.net.
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MusicTranscript
00:00:00What are the biggest misconceptions about the police?
00:00:03Everybody thinks Sting broke my rib.
00:00:05I broke his rib.
00:00:07Why did you feel like it had to be a three-piece band?
00:00:09Because, well, more room in the car.
00:00:11And that's how Jimi Hendrix and Cream did it.
00:00:13My first drum teacher was the drummer in an Armenian strip club in Beirut.
00:00:18I bang stuff, but there's no mental activity at all.
00:00:21It's entirely visceral.
00:00:24Sting, I told you not to call me when I'm working, okay?
00:00:27Sting, what are you doing?
00:00:30Hey, I'm Joanne Butler in studio with...
00:00:32Stuart Copeland, and you're watching your TV.
00:00:34It's tuned to Life Minute.
00:00:37Woohoo! Stuart Copeland in the house. Yay!
00:00:40Welcome to Life Minute.
00:00:41Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.
00:00:43We're so honored to have you.
00:00:44Aw, shucks.
00:00:45How are you doing?
00:00:46Oh, excellent. Here it's a bright, sunny morning in New York City.
00:00:49Not too hot yet. About two hours from now, we will all be sweltering.
00:00:52Yes, for sure.
00:00:54Tell us about your tour that's happening right now.
00:00:57Oh, well, I'm out there across the land.
00:00:59Actually, mostly small towns and nice little bijou theaters and such,
00:01:03where I get to have, you know, a group of people where I tell my tall tales, get laughs.
00:01:08And it's like a show, only I don't have to drag around a crew and a band and gear and
00:01:13everything.
00:01:14Just sit in an easy chair like this and tell stories unto the world and get laughs, you know.
00:01:18I've discovered the whole art form of stand-up comedy.
00:01:22Of course, I'm sitting in an easy chair, but the same concept where you go out there and just light
00:01:27up a room with nothing but stories and gags.
00:01:29That's so cool. And you haven't done that before?
00:01:32I have now.
00:01:33Thought about it.
00:01:33But never thought about it until about a year ago or maybe, yeah, maybe a year ago, a wild-eyed
00:01:39English promoter said,
00:01:40how about you do a little tour, you know, of small towns, which is very different.
00:01:45So I played a tour of England, not Manchester, not Birmingham, London, but East Thrickingham and, you know, Stow in
00:01:52the Wald and Chelmsford, these little towns.
00:01:55But the vibe is very cool because people out there, they just got to drive to, you know, around a
00:02:01block instead of into the big city.
00:02:03Yeah.
00:02:03And there's just a much more intimate atmosphere for getting laughs.
00:02:07That's so cool.
00:02:08Have I said too much?
00:02:10Probably.
00:02:11Why now?
00:02:12What made you want to?
00:02:13Well, like I said, an English promoter occurred to him, never occurred to me, that I just go out there
00:02:18and make a living talking to people.
00:02:20And by the way, I don't make a living out of show business really anymore.
00:02:24I'm kind of retired from that.
00:02:25I make music pretty much as a hobby these days.
00:02:28Yes.
00:02:28You know, I make my YouTube clips and stick them up for all to enjoy with no agenda or commercial
00:02:34plan.
00:02:35Does that feel different in any way, like playing now?
00:02:38Yes.
00:02:39It's a lot more fun to do music as a hobby, particularly drums.
00:02:44You know, banging stuff, when I did it for serious, professionally, if you like, it was, you know, it's cool.
00:02:50I enjoy playing concerts, but the physicality of it, the training for it, getting, you know,
00:02:54the practicing up to muscle up to play a, you know, two and a half hour rock show.
00:02:59You know, it was always like part of my job.
00:03:01Right.
00:03:02But recently I've discovered, you know, I turned on, you know, your Spotify, Cursed Be Its Name.
00:03:06Right.
00:03:07And I had kind of a cool groove going on.
00:03:09And so my drums are right there, so I just, and I've rediscovered banging stuff as recreation.
00:03:15That's so cool.
00:03:16You've had a really unique childhood.
00:03:20Tell us, for those who don't know what it was like growing up, your dad was in the CIA.
00:03:26Well, yes, my father was a spook, CIA, in the Middle East.
00:03:30His job was to sustain a system of despots, dictators, and bleep heads.
00:03:37And to keep the oil flowing to us rather than to the evil empire of the Soviet Union.
00:03:42And I was, grew up in Cairo and in Lebanon.
00:03:44And didn't, I left when I was two months old.
00:03:47I didn't get back till I was 18.
00:03:49So, after Lebanon, I was shipped off to England, boarding school in England, staving off an English
00:03:57accent the whole time because I'm murking gosh darn it.
00:04:00Did you always know you had music in you?
00:04:03It came and got me whether I knew it or not.
00:04:06I had lots of other jobs.
00:04:07I was roadie, tour manager, radio DJ in Berkeley, California.
00:04:12I started all kinds of other career prospects, but the music kept dragging me back.
00:04:19And I just kept finding myself, that was like roadieing for the band or tour managing or whatever.
00:04:25And eventually I found myself in the band.
00:04:28Couldn't help it.
00:04:29How old were you when you started drumming?
00:04:31And you realized this is…
00:04:32Oh, about 12.
00:04:34Wow.
00:04:34And it actually arose because in Beirut, in the American Community School there, ACS, our high
00:04:40school, the band, the Black Knights, needed a drummer.
00:04:44And at 12, I played my first show at the American Embassy Beach Club.
00:04:48Oh, my God.
00:04:49And up to that point, were you like self-taught or did you have training?
00:04:53Oh, no.
00:04:54My father was a jazz musician as well as CIA spook.
00:04:57Before the war, he was actually a professional jazz player.
00:05:00I've still got his trumpet, you know.
00:05:01And I'm the youngest of four.
00:05:04So when the first three went by and he was trying to put musical instruments into their
00:05:07hands, and none of it stuck.
00:05:09But I came along.
00:05:10The last one, finally, I just grabbed all those instruments, quickly broke them, and ended
00:05:16up banging on anything that didn't dodge.
00:05:20So he immediately got me into lessons.
00:05:22My first drum teacher was the drummer in an Armenian strip club in Beirut.
00:05:26He taught me how to set up the drums and hold my sticks.
00:05:29Wow.
00:05:30You hold them very uniquely.
00:05:32So you mix them up.
00:05:33Not uniquely.
00:05:34It's orthodox, you see.
00:05:36This is your modern drummers these days, like that.
00:05:39But old school, like this.
00:05:43Yes, like an old jazz player.
00:05:44There's a reason for that.
00:05:46Because in olden times, the snare drum was a marching instrument.
00:05:50And they would march along with their snare drum, like this.
00:05:52But it's ungainly, bangs on your knees, so they turn it on an angle, which means the
00:05:58drum is like that, or like this.
00:06:00So to make it easier, like that.
00:06:04And so I was raised by an Armenian strip club drummer, who taught me orthodox grip and that
00:06:10kind of stuck.
00:06:10Oh my gosh.
00:06:12It's astounding how you can come up with that sound like that.
00:06:15But you mix it up sometimes, right?
00:06:16Well no, because the thumb is a very strong finger.
00:06:22All right, okay.
00:06:23Although, really it's not about the strength of your fingers, it's about the bounce of
00:06:28the wood.
00:06:29The less pressure you apply, the more you let the stick bounce of its own free will, the
00:06:34slicker you can be.
00:06:35And the more power you can derive.
00:06:36Your playing is so otherworldly, with your stops and suspensions and all that stuff.
00:06:43Negative space.
00:06:44Negative space.
00:06:45That's the reggae negative space.
00:06:47Which painters and artists, visual artists know what I'm talking about.
00:06:51Where you create power in an absence.
00:06:55And in reggae, it's all about that hole.
00:06:57Da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
00:06:59Da-da-da-da.
00:07:00That little hole there, we call that negative space.
00:07:03Rock and roll does ordinarily not have a lot of negative space.
00:07:06It's mostly full on in your face space.
00:07:10But in music, well also, this also I got from growing up immersed in Arabic music, which
00:07:16I wasn't listening to at all.
00:07:18But it was surrounding me, just entering my DNA involuntarily.
00:07:22And so they also have a lot of use of negative space in their rhythms.
00:07:27Right.
00:07:27So all along growing up with all the places you've been, I guess.
00:07:30Well, it just made it easier for me to cop the reggae riffs than it was for other artists.
00:07:35You do it so well.
00:07:37That's what I was going to ask.
00:07:38Is it just, well, it's obviously innate too, innate in you.
00:07:41Yeah, I think it's a gift.
00:07:42And as proof of that, the job of drummer for the high school band was first offered to my
00:07:49brother Ian, because just he was so cool.
00:07:51He was cool as, he was the Fonz in high school, so let's get him on drums.
00:07:55But he couldn't do it.
00:07:56But I could.
00:07:57And I don't know if you have an older sibling or anything, but your older brother or sister
00:08:02is better at everything.
00:08:04And so it was strange for me to actually get on these drums and actually be able to do
00:08:08something better than my older brother.
00:08:10That's weird.
00:08:11I must be doing it wrong, I thought at the time.
00:08:15And that's been my secret sauce ever since.
00:08:17I love it.
00:08:18I love it.
00:08:20Ian and Miles in music too, the booker and the manager.
00:08:24Yeah, I would say actually for all your viewers out there, that my two brothers, Miles and
00:08:28Ian, are the two most important managers in the history of rock and roll.
00:08:33I agree.
00:08:35Discuss, if you will.
00:08:36Any debate on that?
00:08:37Yeah.
00:08:37Any dispute on that?
00:08:38No, I agree.
00:08:39I agree.
00:08:40Well, I'll say that.
00:08:41Okay, I'll explain.
00:08:41You know, you had your other managers who would manage the Beatles or the Stones or Led Zeppelin.
00:08:46But Miles and Ian managed every darn buddy of the 80s and late 70s.
00:08:51The Police, R.E.M., Go-Go's, Bangles, as well as the British band Squeeze and such,
00:08:55and even Wishbone Ash going back into the Prague era.
00:08:59And in fact, those two guys were responsible for an entire British invasion in the early 80s
00:09:05of that new romantic stuff.
00:09:08You have my two brothers to thank for those screwed up hairdos.
00:09:12It's amazing.
00:09:13Amazing.
00:09:13What does your sister do?
00:09:15She actually is a writer.
00:09:17She's written several books, kind of, and also she made commercial films and sort of
00:09:22out of the entertainment industry but still in media.
00:09:25Yeah, yeah.
00:09:26Creative.
00:09:27Yeah, that era.
00:09:27Like, when they knew you could play like that, how far into that career were they in?
00:09:32Like, were they already booking bands?
00:09:33When did they book you?
00:09:34My brother got me the gig with the Black Knights, the high school band, when I was 12,
00:09:39so he was my agent from when I was 12, up until we sadly lost him half a century later.
00:09:45He must have been like, ugh, you saw a cash register sign.
00:09:48Well, at first they were horrified because up to then I'd been a roadie and, you know,
00:09:53and summer jobs was roadieing for all of the bands that they managed and so on,
00:09:57where I learned all about the gear and then I was tour manager.
00:10:00I learned all about how the band works.
00:10:01And then one day I actually joined a band and I crossed to the other side.
00:10:07And to the horror of my siblings, my two brothers, I became one of them.
00:10:12The talent.
00:10:13Right.
00:10:14Which is an entirely different deal.
00:10:16How so?
00:10:16Well, because as roadie and one of them, I'm, you know, your viewers can't see this, but there's a horde
00:10:23of black clad crew and technicians who make all this stuff happen, right?
00:10:28But then when you cross into the light, hello lights, you become the talent, which means that you can expand
00:10:36on hitherto undisclosed neuroses such as anything, you know,
00:10:40and you become much more neurotic when you're under the lights than you are when you're a nameless black clad
00:10:47figure just doing your job.
00:10:48So the talent is a lot more complicated to deal with than the crew.
00:10:52I thought you would be like this.
00:10:54You don't have that air about you.
00:10:56And we've interviewed the others.
00:10:56Oh, yes, I do.
00:10:57What are you saying?
00:10:59No, in a good way.
00:11:00Like you, you know, you just.
00:11:02Well, you know, you go, you know, I've been, I've been to the mountain and when you've been up the
00:11:08mountain, you don't need to put on any airs.
00:11:10Yeah.
00:11:11You sure have.
00:11:12Literally.
00:11:12Literally and figuratively.
00:11:14Early musical influences.
00:11:17Well, I was raised on jazz, which is why I don't play jazz.
00:11:20That was my dad.
00:11:21While my mother was playing Stravinsky, Karl Orff, W.C. Reveld, 20th century composers.
00:11:28And that's stuck.
00:11:29That's still going around in my head up until the age of, say, 16, when Jimi Hendrix showed up.
00:11:35And that was it for trombones and everything.
00:11:36That was it.
00:11:38You know, and so as a teenager walking down the street, I'd have Rites of Spring in one half of
00:11:44my brain and, you know, Jimi Hendrix in the other half of my brain.
00:11:49And I guess the mix is where I and who I am musically.
00:11:53So cool.
00:11:54What was the first record you ever bought?
00:11:57Help by The Beatles.
00:11:58I listened to my parents' record collections, not so much my father's Stan Kenton and Woody Herman, although I did
00:12:05pick up on Buddy Rich.
00:12:06And then my mother's classical music.
00:12:09But my own first record, and I didn't even select it myself.
00:12:13A friend of mine was going to England, so I gave him some money.
00:12:15He said, bring me back something English.
00:12:17And he came back with the album Help.
00:12:20And up to then I'd been listening to my siblings' record collections and parents.
00:12:24But this was my own first record.
00:12:25Wow.
00:12:26I wasn't even that big a Beatles fan.
00:12:27I am a bigger Beatles fan now than I was as a kid.
00:12:31Me too.
00:12:31Because having grown up and my ears got a little more sophisticated.
00:12:36And now that I know what they were doing, I'm way more impressed by what they did.
00:12:40That's so interesting.
00:12:41I mean, I think the Beatles, I'm not even a Beatles fan, but I recognize that they are the number
00:12:46one top pop group ever so far on the planet.
00:12:51Hang on just a second.
00:12:52Hang on just a second.
00:12:54Hang on just a second.
00:12:56Sting, I told you not to call me when I'm working, okay?
00:13:00Say hello.
00:13:01Sting, what are you doing?
00:13:02Hello.
00:13:03We'll talk later.
00:13:05This is what a show is going to be.
00:13:06All right.
00:13:07So funny.
00:13:10Beatles.
00:13:10Beatles, yes.
00:13:11We were on Beatles.
00:13:12I totally agree.
00:13:13That's so cool that you said that.
00:13:15Because I didn't get any...
00:13:16I mean, I like them, but I feel they're still not my favorite.
00:13:19Looking back, you know, knowing what I know now, I realize, you know, Sergeant Pepper was recorded on eight tracks.
00:13:24Are you kidding?
00:13:25No one could do that these days.
00:13:27And their artistry, they covered everything from soft, poignant to raging metal.
00:13:33You know, they were a heavy metal band at times.
00:13:35Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:36And Ringo on the drums, so inventive and so solid.
00:13:40When I was a kid, I wanted more drum fills.
00:13:42I was more into Mitch Mitchell and Buddy Rich for that matter.
00:13:45And I didn't really get Ringo, or Charlie Watts for that matter, until growing up and appreciating the subtlety and
00:13:52the imagination of what they did.
00:13:54I love that.
00:13:55I want to put your phone, oops, anywhere.
00:13:57Well, I've got a couple calls to make.
00:13:59Do you mind?
00:13:59Nope.
00:14:00Take your time.
00:14:01Call them all up.
00:14:02Mick Jagger's probably going to call any minute now.
00:14:04Probably.
00:14:05So, you know, let's keep the lines open.
00:14:06I wouldn't be surprised.
00:14:08And I was going to say, and the police was kind of like the Beatles, like, kind of short.
00:14:13You weren't together that long.
00:14:14Well, our glib comment was, hey, everyone says that you're the Beatles of the 80s.
00:14:17Well, and our glib, smartass who joined us, ha, the Beatles were the police of the 60s.
00:14:25Right.
00:14:25You know.
00:14:27This kind of stuff just slips out when you're rising up.
00:14:30When you're under the lights on the other side.
00:14:32It is true if you look at it now.
00:14:34Well, every band has its day.
00:14:37You know, after us there was Metallica and after them there was somebody else is the biggest
00:14:41band in the world for about 10 minutes.
00:14:44Nah, I don't think so.
00:14:45I think this lasts longer.
00:14:46I'd say you're right up there at the Beatles for sure.
00:14:49Well, actually, it's generational.
00:14:51I was once at a, I'm going to drop some names here.
00:14:54Okay.
00:14:55Get over it.
00:14:55I'm at Eddie Vedder's birthday party.
00:14:58Ringo's there and with whom I get along really well.
00:15:01And Eddie's like, it's selfie time.
00:15:04And like Eddie's all like leaning into me to get a shot with me.
00:15:07And I, dude, dude, that's a beetle on the other side of you over there, man.
00:15:11You know, hello.
00:15:13But I realized that humans are like ducks.
00:15:17When a duck bursts out of its shell, the first warm body it sees is mama, you know.
00:15:22And when humans hit 16 and they burst out of the cocoon, the first raging guitar they see,
00:15:27is daddy, you know.
00:15:29And for me, that was Jimi Hendrix.
00:15:30And for Eddie Vedder, that was me.
00:15:32Or for me, that was the Beatles in a way.
00:15:34Right.
00:15:34So for Eddie and his generation, a beetle is sort of like Frank Sinatra or something,
00:15:41you know.
00:15:41Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:43Respect, respect, respect.
00:15:44But his personal daddy, he was 16 when the police were busting out.
00:15:48And so that for him is a bigger deal, which for me, you know, how can that be?
00:15:53That's not right.
00:15:53Eddie, that's a beetle.
00:15:55Gosh, darn it.
00:15:56I was eight, I think, when you busted out and I was like that.
00:15:59But I don't know if that's so true.
00:16:01I mean, I think...
00:16:01For you, when you were 16, who was on top?
00:16:05Eddie.
00:16:06Yeah, right.
00:16:07There you go.
00:16:07Well, that group of Eddie, of the Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, Rage Against the Machine even,
00:16:14you know.
00:16:14Soundgarden.
00:16:15They were all 16 when I was doing my thing.
00:16:17So I go in that bandwidth of artists and stuff and they throw rose petals before me as I
00:16:23enter the room.
00:16:24That's right.
00:16:24And I get a great ride from those folks.
00:16:26That's awesome.
00:16:27I love it.
00:16:27I love it.
00:16:28Well, they have good taste.
00:16:29But you're definitely a musician's musician.
00:16:31I mean, I don't think it's just an aging.
00:16:33It's everywhere.
00:16:34I mean, and you're so modest about it.
00:16:36Yes, I'm a musician's musician.
00:16:38Not so much a singer's musician.
00:16:40No?
00:16:41Why not?
00:16:42Well, a singer who's singing songs of great socio-political import, you know, an emotional
00:16:48insight, doesn't necessarily need World War III going on over his left shoulder.
00:16:53What do you mean by that?
00:16:55Me.
00:16:55I know.
00:16:56What do you mean?
00:16:57Banging stuff.
00:16:58I don't know.
00:16:59Everybody needs you banging stuff, I think.
00:17:01Unless you're a singer.
00:17:03Unless you're a singer-songwriter.
00:17:04So, I don't know.
00:17:05But you know, people have their favorite Beatle.
00:17:08You're my favorite policeman.
00:17:09Ah, shucks.
00:17:10Don't tell anybody.
00:17:11Don't tell anybody when they call.
00:17:13What's your drumming advice for somebody starting out?
00:17:16Relax, mainly.
00:17:18Eat your Wheaties and your vegetables and relax.
00:17:21Do your rudiments because that just makes everything easier.
00:17:25Reduce the exertion and use the bounce.
00:17:29Do still?
00:17:30Relax for power.
00:17:31Yeah.
00:17:31I think it's generally recognized that the biggest banger, most powerful delivery would
00:17:37be John Bonham.
00:17:38He just somehow made his drums sound like moving mountains.
00:17:43And although his wooden sticks hit the drums very forcefully, he himself is very relaxed.
00:17:50It's a flick rather than a whack.
00:17:55Do you think some drummers think they have to hit it hard to get a mighty sound?
00:17:58Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:59That's what they're doing wrong.
00:18:00And particularly that bandwidth of musicians who are all now in their 50s.
00:18:04You know, I'm in my 70s.
00:18:06And I see, you know, Chad Smith, you know, with his hands in buckets of ice after the show.
00:18:11And I think that used to be me.
00:18:13But then I started playing with symphony orchestra.
00:18:15And now an orchestra, although there's 80 of them on stage with you, their little wooden
00:18:20instruments are that big and it's acoustic.
00:18:22So a modern drum set, which is designed to withstand the impact of a 200 watt Marshall
00:18:28amplifier, it just blows them all away.
00:18:31Just one snare drum crack will obliterate an orchestra or a crash cymbal.
00:18:36Forget it.
00:18:37You lose the next, you know, two bars of music, which I wouldn't really care about much except
00:18:41unless I wrote that music, which I want to hear it.
00:18:45So I had to take my technique way down in volume, which is where I discovered that taking
00:18:50the dynamic range from like nine to 13, you know, guitarists go to 11, but drummers go
00:18:58to 13.
00:18:59I took it down to zero to 13 and all that space there.
00:19:03For one thing, the drums sound better.
00:19:05For another thing, all kinds of technique that is irrelevant in rock and roll, you know,
00:19:10cause too subtle, it just doesn't read and nobody gets a headache.
00:19:14But so that, but that volume, I get much more dynamic range, which equals power.
00:19:19So I could be going along really something like bang, you know, and it has much more impact
00:19:24if it's surrounded by, you know, less.
00:19:29So relax for power.
00:19:30Interesting.
00:19:31And so you didn't always know that.
00:19:33You kind of learned that as you went.
00:19:34I did when I was, you know, in a 20 something in a punk band, the police, we were a
00:19:40fake
00:19:40punk band, but we still had like that.
00:19:43I was killing it.
00:19:45Well, the good news is that during my, you know, twenties and thirties, I worked hard for
00:19:51a living chopping wood for two hours every night, which actually had a beneficial effect.
00:19:55Now that I'm elderly, I'm very glad that as a youth, I was forced involuntarily to be very fit.
00:20:01I would never do that on my own.
00:20:04But my job kept me strong.
00:20:06Right.
00:20:06Right.
00:20:07And I didn't realize how strong until I picked up the guitar.
00:20:11Well, I'd always play guitar, but one summer over in Italy, because I can, I had a band
00:20:15and I was in the front of the band playing guitar and singing on the mic in the front.
00:20:19And I discovered that it's way easier.
00:20:23Just the exertion involved is nothing.
00:20:25There's a reason why guitarists and singers go on stage with coats and hats and capes and
00:20:31sequins and feathers and you know, drummers can't do that.
00:20:34We're in a t-shirt because we're working hard way.
00:20:37We're carrying the band all the way down the highway on our broad shoulders.
00:20:42And as a guitarist, I'm looking back at the drummer going, man, that guy's working way
00:20:46harder.
00:20:47And I, whenever I see Dave Grohl, I, I always take the opportunity to beat and bust him up
00:20:52about that.
00:20:53Come on, dude.
00:20:54You know that, you know how much easier this guitar gig is than the drummer gig.
00:20:58Come on, fess up.
00:21:00That's right.
00:21:00He would know, right?
00:21:02Oh, that's so funny.
00:21:03Bass guitar you play or regular guitar?
00:21:05Oh, I love bass.
00:21:06That's my favorite instrument to play.
00:21:07Bass players are my favorite kind of musicians.
00:21:10We bond, you know.
00:21:11Yes.
00:21:13Every band needs a bass player to translate for the drummer.
00:21:16How does it come for you when you're creating songs?
00:21:19Like, what do you hear?
00:21:21Out of the ether.
00:21:21I don't know where it comes from.
00:21:22I know that that too is a gift.
00:21:24There's two things going on here.
00:21:25One is I bang stuff, but there's no mental activity at all.
00:21:28It's entirely visceral.
00:21:30I just make it up.
00:21:31That's why I'm not the greatest session player because I forget the arrangement and I don't
00:21:36care.
00:21:37I'm banging here.
00:21:38And it's a physical, mindless exercise that I enjoy a lot and it's instinctive.
00:21:43Composing is entirely, it's entirely intellectual.
00:21:47There are many musicians that I know who are not composers.
00:21:49They play with incredible passion and talent and inspiration, but they don't invent melodies.
00:21:56They play songs that they know and they learn them and they play them and they do cool things
00:21:59with them.
00:22:00They take a guitar solo as a form of composition.
00:22:03But the part where you actually conceive of something, a piece of music in your head
00:22:08and create it and put it onto a score for an orchestra, that's an entirely different
00:22:12mental exercise, a different part of the brain, a different part of the soul.
00:22:17And I really don't know where it comes from, but there is a river that flows through my
00:22:22head.
00:22:23There's always ask me for a tune and I will whistle you a new tune.
00:22:26It just comes out.
00:22:27It doesn't mean to say it's any good or that anyone else will like it, but it's there.
00:22:32And I know great musicians, you know, like a virtuoso violinist that I know, you know,
00:22:38first chair at the Met, you know, serious musician, incredible.
00:22:42You know, she will play Verde and break your heart and she'll say, you know, this summer
00:22:47I'm going to write a violin concerto.
00:22:49And I'm thinking, no you're not.
00:22:50If you had that gene, if you had that composing gift, you would have written five concerti
00:22:56by now.
00:22:57And it's, it's granted to some musicians and not to others.
00:23:01You know, my composition gift doesn't go along with a singing voice.
00:23:05So I don't write songs so much, but I write, you know, a concerto for a giant orchestra instead,
00:23:12which is a kind of a different musical format.
00:23:14Yes.
00:23:14And you've done TV and film as well.
00:23:16Oh, I did that.
00:23:17Well, that's where I learned all the chops.
00:23:18And I say that the film composer has the widest set of musical skills, and he's not even
00:23:24an artist.
00:23:25You know, the artist that a film composer works for is the director.
00:23:28And you're a craftsman serving his art.
00:23:31But in the service of his art, under the harsh yoke of cruel employ, you learn much more than
00:23:38you ever would as an artist following your own path and your own instinct.
00:23:42You know, Billie Ollish, we don't want her learning.
00:23:44We want her to do her unique, amazing thing.
00:23:48But that's all she can do.
00:23:49That's all she wants to do.
00:23:50And that's all she needs to do.
00:23:51Sure.
00:23:52But the humble film composer is forced to go everywhere because film covers science fiction,
00:23:59period drama, rom-com, psychodrama, every aspect and period and culture of the human experience.
00:24:07Film goes there and the film composer has to go there.
00:24:10And you're forced to learn, you know.
00:24:12My first gig, my boss, Francis Coppola, turns around and says, I think we need strings.
00:24:17I had to go out and learn how to do strings.
00:24:20And that began my love affair with the orchestra, with orchestral musicians.
00:24:25What was that for again?
00:24:26That was for a film called Rumblefish.
00:24:28Rumblefish.
00:24:28A very obscure cult movie.
00:24:30Yes.
00:24:30I was forced to go learn a new thing by my boss.
00:24:34Don't be afraid of selling your soul to the devil.
00:24:37And I said this, I think it was last night in whatever show I was doing there.
00:24:43And I said, youngsters, do not be afraid to sell your soul to Satan.
00:24:47And a guy stands up in priestly garb and says, actually, no, can you, no, don't.
00:24:53And I said, he was actually, he had just written a really good question that I was answering.
00:24:58And so I said, okay, okay, not Satan.
00:24:59Do not sell your soul to Satan.
00:25:02No.
00:25:05Beelzebub, maybe.
00:25:07Did you ever feel like that?
00:25:08Like when you're making it big, like, ugh, I'm selling my soul?
00:25:11No.
00:25:12Okay, good.
00:25:13Conscience?
00:25:14What's that?
00:25:16Well, stupid anyway.
00:25:17Like.
00:25:18Artistically, if it turns me on and it excites me, I don't care if it's for a Mountain Dew
00:25:22commercial or for whatever.
00:25:25I get into it.
00:25:26Cool.
00:25:26And by the way, the Mountain Dew commercial pays better.
00:25:28Yeah.
00:25:29Oh, I bet.
00:25:30And might she get you on the Super Bowl.
00:25:32Oh, yeah.
00:25:33That's the biggest brag for commercial composers is you do an ad for, you know, an insurance
00:25:38company or Washington or Mountain Dew, but you get, your ad plays at the Super Bowl.
00:25:43It's like the Grammys.
00:25:45Yeah, I've played a couple of Super Bowls.
00:25:47They don't give me no ring.
00:25:49You know, I should get a ring.
00:25:50Yeah, you should.
00:25:52Oh, let's talk about the police a little.
00:25:55How did that all come to be?
00:25:56It was you that kind of worked.
00:25:58Well, at the end of, as the prog scene was winding down and culture was saved by the
00:26:05Sex Pistols and the punk revolution really inspired me because I was too young to be
00:26:11a hippie anyway.
00:26:12I was born in the 50s.
00:26:13And by the time I came up, the hippie thing was kind of old and done and just being recirculated.
00:26:18So I wanted my own band and it had to be a three piece band, which meant that either
00:26:23the guitarist or the bass player needs to sing.
00:26:25Why did you feel like it had to be a three piece band?
00:26:27Because, well, more room in the car.
00:26:30And that's how Jimi Hendrix and Cream did it.
00:26:33In that sort of band there's generally less emphasis on the song and more emphasis on
00:26:36the playing, which is what I want to do.
00:26:38So I'm not so concerned about the song.
00:26:41I'm basically, as a drummer, viscerally banging stuff.
00:26:46You know, it's instinctive, like I was saying.
00:26:49So I found a guitarist, Henry Padovani.
00:26:52He had recently been a Santana fan, but one day dropped acid, cut his hair and became a
00:26:58punk.
00:26:59And he had his own amp.
00:27:00You're in.
00:27:01And then Sting, I saw playing a show up in Newcastle.
00:27:07And very long story, which I won't bore you with here, but I persuaded him to come down
00:27:11to London.
00:27:12I told him I had a band and I had songs and everything, which I did, really crap songs.
00:27:16But since I was the only one, he came down to London and when I played him my dumb song,
00:27:21fake punk songs, songs of convenience, if you will, you know, clown's revenge and such.
00:27:27He didn't run away because this fast talking American in London was the only connection he
00:27:32had in the big city.
00:27:33So he stuck it out until Andy joined, who was musically very sophisticated.
00:27:39And that's when Sting's ears pricked up.
00:27:42And he started writing songs and the rest is history.
00:27:45Wow.
00:27:46What are your best memories of that time, the good times?
00:27:49There are a lot, a lot of chuckles.
00:27:51But strangely, I think most band members or artists that you would talk to would probably
00:27:56tell you the same thing.
00:27:56It's exciting.
00:27:58You're getting what you always wanted, too much of what you always wanted.
00:28:01But there's a strange anxiety that goes with it.
00:28:04And I would describe it as social vertigo, where your voice rings a little with too much
00:28:10authority, where your actions have too much impact.
00:28:13Your jokes are funnier, light people up, your barbs cut deeper.
00:28:18And you sort of feel that you, you're like, you're used to driving a car, but now you're
00:28:22driving a Mack truck, which is the avatar.
00:28:25Not yourself, you know.
00:28:26It's the avatar that moves in the world and people see.
00:28:30And they build that avatar in their own mind from the records that they hear, the pictures
00:28:34they see, interviews they might see.
00:28:35They build an image and that's this Mack truck that you're carrying around.
00:28:40You walk into a room, you don't know anybody there, but they all know you.
00:28:44And there's an anxiety that goes with that.
00:28:46The social vertigo.
00:28:48And I've talked to many, in fact, I'm writing a book about that.
00:28:51How to Survive Your Mojo, kind of a handbook for the young ones, dealing with this strange,
00:28:56elevated status in society that has no logic behind it.
00:29:00You know, you should really revere your dentist or your doctor or many architects who build
00:29:07the houses that we live in.
00:29:08And yet, it's people who twang on guitars and bang drums who get this strange, exalted
00:29:14status.
00:29:14And it's a little unsettling to the subject of all this attention.
00:29:19And so it's actually, the book is, although I think it's a really deep subject, the psychological
00:29:24journey of what happens to you when you're immersed in that attention, whether you're
00:29:27a professional, like a musician or an actor, or you're a civilian, suddenly elevated into
00:29:32the national consciousness through some act of villainy or heroism, one or the other.
00:29:38But it's a strange journey.
00:29:40And so this book is about the, that's the theory, but actually it's spinal tap in book
00:29:46form.
00:29:47Cool.
00:29:48Well, how do you, you know, relieve yourself of that or what?
00:29:51Well, by remembering, separating your person from your persona.
00:29:54The person that's out there that everybody sees is not actually you.
00:29:57You still have a stomach ache and you're busting for a leak, you know.
00:30:00But that persona there is inviolable.
00:30:02In fact, it's sort of, I would describe celebrities as sort of demigods.
00:30:07We're not real gods because we can't change the weather.
00:30:11And for another thing, we're going to die.
00:30:14But the avatar is the real thing.
00:30:16Can't change the weather, but isn't going to die.
00:30:18You know, in fact, when the person dies, the avatar gets a career boost, you know.
00:30:23You know, when Elvis Presley died, all the crocodiles in the entertainment industry,
00:30:28it's a very succinct great career move.
00:30:30Yeah.
00:30:30So in other words, your avatar is, that's the celebrity, but the actual person still has
00:30:38to put his pants on one leg at a time.
00:30:40Yeah.
00:30:41But there is a difference between a musician and like an actor, I would say.
00:30:44Yes, very different.
00:30:45I mean, music does help you mentally and physically.
00:30:50Well, we have to have compassion for actors because they can't do anything but wait for
00:30:56the phone to ring.
00:30:57They can't write a song.
00:30:58Well, maybe they can write a song, but that's not their job or their reason for anything.
00:31:02They have to wait for the phone to ring and then be rejected most of the time because
00:31:07your nose is the wrong shape.
00:31:08Nothing you can do.
00:31:09They're just looking for a different type.
00:31:11We want a guy with curly hair, you know.
00:31:13And so it's quite an emotionally difficult job.
00:31:17Actors tend to be stranger than musicians.
00:31:20I don't know if that's because I am a musician and I speak their language, but actors that,
00:31:24you know, sitting next to an actor at a dinner party, they are hard work because nobody wrote
00:31:30their lines for the dinner party or something.
00:31:32But actors are actually even more visible because you see their face on the screen.
00:31:37The musicians, you hear them and you might see a picture on an album cover or something,
00:31:40but actors in your face, that's that guy walking down the street.
00:31:44So they have to deal with it a lot more than musicians do.
00:31:47And yet they don't get the same respect because the guy who plays Batman in a movie is never
00:31:56going to be as cool as the guy who is Bruce Springsteen.
00:31:59Right.
00:32:00And it's just different.
00:32:02Like, I don't love you because you're a celebrity.
00:32:06It's because of what you created.
00:32:09Well, we just met and you're in love already?
00:32:11Yeah.
00:32:12I am.
00:32:13Me too.
00:32:14Well, that's my default.
00:32:15I love all people.
00:32:16Oh, I love all good people.
00:32:19I'm so happy.
00:32:19I love bad people too.
00:32:21Really?
00:32:21Yep.
00:32:22You know, we are only human and can't help but judge.
00:32:25But when the gavel falls, remember love.
00:32:29Oh, that's good.
00:32:31You know, when you're, it's the remembering part is the point.
00:32:34Loving is not so hard.
00:32:35It's the remembering part.
00:32:37You know, you're cut up and trapped and you're like,
00:32:38I know.
00:32:40I love you.
00:32:41I don't do that.
00:32:43I'm not going to lie.
00:32:44I need to work on it.
00:32:45But you know what I mean?
00:32:47Like with the musician, it's like, I do love my dentist.
00:32:49I love my dentist.
00:32:50Yes.
00:32:51And I love my surgeon.
00:32:51But you probably don't have a picture of him on your wall.
00:32:55Or maybe you do.
00:32:56I might.
00:32:58I guess.
00:32:59But I don't know.
00:33:00There's something different about music.
00:33:01Well, it's his skill.
00:33:03Well, I guess I'd be true of musicians.
00:33:04It's his skill.
00:33:05You must feel it.
00:33:06Like who did you?
00:33:08It's the guys from Cream.
00:33:09Who did I idolize?
00:33:10Jimi Hendrix.
00:33:11Yeah.
00:33:11Mitch Mitchell.
00:33:12Yeah.
00:33:13Even Buddy Rich, even though he's jazz, you know.
00:33:15Which brings me to my favorite brag of my entire career.
00:33:19Well, there's the Grammys, f*** that, you know.
00:33:21But, you know, I wrote you for Wishbone Ash.
00:33:26I was out there with Ash, you know.
00:33:28That's a brag.
00:33:29But the other brag is that I gave Buddy Rich my autograph.
00:33:33How about that?
00:33:34That's awesome.
00:33:34Which was, okay.
00:33:36Yeah.
00:33:36Describe the circumstance here.
00:33:37It was at the Grammys.
00:33:39And backstage at the Grammys is way the best hang in show business.
00:33:43And there's Buddy Rich.
00:33:45My God.
00:33:46And he's like walking in my general direction.
00:33:48I'm trying to get, put myself in the path of where he's going to end up.
00:33:51So I might, like, he might brush past.
00:33:53I could feel, you know, the, you know, the thing, you know.
00:33:58And then I realized he's walking up to me.
00:34:01He's, in spite of my urgent obeisance, you know.
00:34:05You know, he's actually talking to me.
00:34:09And he has a piece of paper.
00:34:10Sign this.
00:34:11Aww.
00:34:12And I look and it's for my daughter.
00:34:15His daughter, Kathy, was poking out from behind her.
00:34:17Aww.
00:34:18He looked like he was chewing on a turd.
00:34:21But I gave Buddy Rich my autograph.
00:34:24Awesome.
00:34:24I love it.
00:34:25I love that.
00:34:26You know.
00:34:27Neil Peart couldn't say that.
00:34:29John Bonham couldn't say that.
00:34:30That's right.
00:34:31Not even Ringo Starr could say that.
00:34:33Well, how do you know?
00:34:34He might have.
00:34:35He might have been a fan.
00:34:36I doubt it.
00:34:37No, I doubt it too.
00:34:39And so many people look up to you that way.
00:34:42Taylor Hawkins.
00:34:43Yes.
00:34:44Yes.
00:34:45What was he like?
00:34:46Goofy.
00:34:46Goofy.
00:34:47Him and Dave both.
00:34:48They kind of reinvented Fanboy.
00:34:50And I'd go to his house or he'd come over to my place.
00:34:53He'd always be wearing a police t-shirt.
00:34:56Which is so uncool and yet so cool.
00:34:59So cool.
00:34:59What kind of drummer was he, would you say?
00:35:02Rock and roll drummer.
00:35:04Played with a lot of panache.
00:35:06At my home I have my studio, the Sacred Grove, where I have the entire room is mic'd up, line
00:35:13checked.
00:35:14Every instrument, you pick up an instrument and there's a mic on it which is going to a channel.
00:35:17And I open up a template and every mic is live.
00:35:21Every square yard of the room is on the mic.
00:35:24And so my choco buddies come over, whether it's Snoop Dogg or Neil Peart or Taylor Hawkins
00:35:28or Ben Harper or whoever, Stanley Clark, you know.
00:35:32And they come over and we jam.
00:35:33And I got cameras around the room too.
00:35:35And I just turn them all on and we jam.
00:35:37And Taylor was a frequent visitor.
00:35:40One night I had Taylor and Danny Carey or, you know, Taylor and Neil Peart, you know.
00:35:46Which means I get to play guitar when I got drummers like that in the house.
00:35:50And so these are all on YouTube.
00:35:55Yes.
00:35:55No agenda, no record label, no, it's just there to dial them up.
00:35:59And anything, you know, Snoop Dogg at the Sacred Grove or the Sacred Grove.
00:36:05Saw a bit of it.
00:36:05It's so cool.
00:36:06I love it.
00:36:07All right, let's go back to the police because we just skimmed over it.
00:36:11Five albums.
00:36:1275 million records.
00:36:14By the way, 75 million records, that's an imaginary number.
00:36:18Really?
00:36:18Nobody knows how many records they sold, particularly with streams and everything like that.
00:36:22And everybody, you know, you know, I hear Metallica sold 85 million records.
00:36:26Well, that we sold 90 million records.
00:36:28You know, it's just.
00:36:29It's probably more than that.
00:36:31Surely, you know, I first heard 75 million records, oh, about 10 years ago or something,
00:36:37you know, so those numbers can be taken with a grain of salt.
00:36:40When did you first know you had chemistry?
00:36:43Well, with Sting right away and with Andy right away.
00:36:46After talking to him on the phone up in Newcastle, and that's a long story how I got his number,
00:36:52because I saw him playing up there and I had to get his number.
00:36:55And one day, down in London, phone rings and it's, hi.
00:36:59It's that voice that we all know now.
00:37:01I'm downstairs.
00:37:02He was calling from a phone booth downstairs.
00:37:05Come on up.
00:37:06And at that time, I had kind of a fancy apartment in a band room where I played.
00:37:11You know, I was in a band called Curved Air that had been quite successful.
00:37:15Of course, the apartment itself was a squat in Mayfair, London.
00:37:19And Mayfair, London is like one of the purple ones of the English Monopoly board.
00:37:23That's another long story.
00:37:24Come to the show and I'll tell you all about it.
00:37:26And it's plugged him into an amp.
00:37:28And the minute we lit up, it just took off.
00:37:32And we just felt this is working.
00:37:35Whatever material we played, even like dumb songs that I had, we just felt it right away.
00:37:41Similarly, the police, when we first formed, were immediately spotted as fake punks,
00:37:49as carpetbaggers, interlopers.
00:37:51And so the police was kind of dead in the water.
00:37:53But Sting and I would get jobs as session players playing on other people's records.
00:37:58And one of these sessions, the guitarist was Andy Summers.
00:38:01And the minute Andy Summers walks into the room, whoever's record it was,
00:38:05they're staring off into space while the three of us just lit it up.
00:38:08Wow.
00:38:09That's so cool.
00:38:10And you said you saw Sting from, you know, far.
00:38:14What did you hear in his voice that attracted you?
00:38:18Rhythm and melody, but that's not what attracted me.
00:38:20For one thing, he had his own amp, great big old amp, qualified.
00:38:24But he was a bass player who could sing, which is specifically what I was looking for.
00:38:28But then again, there was an unmistakable glow coming down from the heavens, the celestial light coming down upon his
00:38:37magnificent brow.
00:38:39Charisma out to here.
00:38:41What's your favorite police recording?
00:38:44Regatta de Blanc.
00:38:45Regatta de Blanc.
00:38:45That was the most fun to record.
00:38:47I'm not sure if it had the most hits on it, but it was, we were just beginning to, it
00:38:50felt like every gig that was a step up.
00:38:52When we moved from a small club to a big club, that's it, we've conquered the world.
00:38:57It was incremental over eight years, but every step felt like world conquest.
00:39:02They say that it takes a lifetime to write your first album, but you got six months to write your
00:39:07second album.
00:39:08And this was our second album.
00:39:10And we were short of material, but full of mojo because we were just beginning to get somewhere.
00:39:16So we went into the studio with just a great creative attitude.
00:39:20We were still codependent and collaborative.
00:39:23And so that was the most fun record to record.
00:39:25Cool.
00:39:26What about a couple of your favorite songs?
00:39:28Ah, Message in a Bottle, Can't Stand Losing You, Bring on the Night.
00:39:32I got lots of favorites.
00:39:34You know what mine is?
00:39:35What's your favorite?
00:39:35The Other Way of Stopping.
00:39:37Ah, shuck.
00:39:38I swear.
00:39:39And it's all right for you also.
00:39:41I played that.
00:39:42I played the guitar, bass and drums on that.
00:39:45The only thing that isn't me is the vocals and the lead, and the guitar solo.
00:39:49And it's, I think it's because they were too lazy and I had my demo, which, you know, everything was
00:39:55great.
00:39:55So I laid down the drums and I played, you know, the guitar.
00:39:58And if you listen closely, the band, it's Clark Kent.
00:40:03Yes.
00:40:04I listened to it last night again.
00:40:05The guitar solo is a for real guitarist playing the guitar solo.
00:40:08Clark Kent sounds just like The Police.
00:40:10Yeah.
00:40:11The whole thing.
00:40:11Yeah.
00:40:12Well, not really.
00:40:13In fact, very different.
00:40:15Totally different.
00:40:16Utterly different.
00:40:17Except that in this one track it's like Clark Kent with Andy Summers on guitar playing the solo and this
00:40:22thing singing.
00:40:23Big upgrade.
00:40:24I also like Murdered by Numbers.
00:40:26That's another obscure one.
00:40:28I do that with the orchestra and it burns down the house.
00:40:31Even though, you know, we play Every Breath You Take and the big hits, of course.
00:40:36And that's an obscure one.
00:40:37It wasn't even on an album.
00:40:38It was like a B-side.
00:40:39But that tune obscure as, you know, usually a known song is going to have much more impact than a
00:40:47new song.
00:40:48And that's almost like a new song because it's so obscure.
00:40:50And yet that song does burn down the house.
00:40:53I don't know why that stands out so much.
00:40:55But the orchestra, it's a great orchestral arrangement.
00:40:57A song that is really good for orchestral arrangement.
00:41:02So that goes down really well.
00:41:03What about to play live?
00:41:04Do you have a favorite to play live?
00:41:06Or did you?
00:41:07Or do you?
00:41:08Not particularly.
00:41:09Roxanne.
00:41:10Really?
00:41:10And what I liked about Roxanne was in the middle we would go off on an improvisation, which is my
00:41:15favorite part of the set.
00:41:16Where we would go off.
00:41:17That's why I enjoy playing with Oyster Head and Jam Band.
00:41:21Because you're just making it up.
00:41:22And it's the one part that's not about the song.
00:41:25And yet Sting would get on the microphone and just go off improvisationally, melodically.
00:41:32And that just lit me up every night.
00:41:34That was my favorite moment of the set was when we would go off into a jam.
00:41:38So cool.
00:41:39When you're with your friends doing your YouTube, do you play a lot of police songs?
00:41:43Do they want to play them?
00:41:44Are you kidding?
00:41:44Yes.
00:41:44We don't play any songs.
00:41:45No?
00:41:46Of any kind.
00:41:47No, we're jamming.
00:41:48Just jam.
00:41:49Cool.
00:41:51Song?
00:41:52Entering the Sacred Grove?
00:41:55Banished!
00:41:56That's a stupid question.
00:41:57Do you think there'll be any other?
00:41:58You said you're done professionally, but do you think there'll be any other songs coming out from you?
00:42:04I'm working on an opera.
00:42:06Wow.
00:42:06Which is like a two hour song.
00:42:08That's awesome.
00:42:09That's what I do now.
00:42:10Yeah.
00:42:10I've written seven operas.
00:42:12I've actually had a pretty good career.
00:42:14Opera is a very, it's kind of a microcosm, but within that microcosm I've been commissioned
00:42:19by the Royal Opera in London, Covent Garden, by the Deutsch National Theater.
00:42:24I had a hit opera in Italy, which for a skinny California composer is the big, because Italy
00:42:29is like the Nashville of opera.
00:42:31Every man, woman, and child knows about opera in Italy.
00:42:34And so to get a commission from an Italian opera company is the deal.
00:42:39Cool.
00:42:40Awesome.
00:42:42Police.
00:42:42Was it always difficult?
00:42:44Did you have some good times?
00:42:46Yes.
00:42:46We had mostly good times.
00:42:48Except for that pervading anxiety that affected all three of us, our interactions were great.
00:42:54We got along really well.
00:42:57Eventually getting in the studio, trying to make records together, the music got in the
00:43:01way of our friendship.
00:43:02But our friendship still survives to this day.
00:43:05We're really closely bonded after all we went through together.
00:43:08As long as we don't play music, we get along fine.
00:43:10But why is that?
00:43:12What exactly happens?
00:43:14Because we're on different missions.
00:43:15What I want to do musically, my purpose of being a musician, all of my instincts are absolutely
00:43:22contrary and conflict with Stingo's musical intentions.
00:43:28He's writing songs, which involve words, and they involve a subject.
00:43:32And we're talking about something.
00:43:33He's writing songs with great socio-political import or emotional insight.
00:43:38That's what he does.
00:43:39He writes songs that are about something, and melodically he sings, and he's got this
00:43:43racket going on over him.
00:43:44I don't care about his song, what he's singing.
00:43:48I care about his melody, everything about him musically.
00:43:51What he's singing about, I don't know what he's singing about.
00:43:54I only ever see the back of his head.
00:43:57I don't care.
00:44:00So we're on different missions.
00:44:01We make music for different reasons, by different means, and we listen to different
00:44:07music.
00:44:08We're actually totally different people as well.
00:44:11You know, he runs quiet and deep.
00:44:13I'm noisy and shallow.
00:44:14So sue me.
00:44:16But we still really have a bond until we start trying to play music together.
00:44:21And so that's why we don't.
00:44:23That's cool.
00:44:24Interesting.
00:44:24Interesting.
00:44:25Well, I'm glad you're still kind of close.
00:44:27When you look back on everything, anything you wish you did differently?
00:44:30Well, I used to have a fantasy that I wake up in boarding school in England, age 16, knowing
00:44:36everything that I know now, including the chords to every breath you take, dancing in
00:44:42the streets, hey Jude, and everything.
00:44:44And at 16 and a half, I'm having hits all over the world.
00:44:48And this fantasy takes me back to pretty much where I am here today, talking to you.
00:44:53There was a movie about that, the Beatles movie, where the kid does exactly that.
00:44:57Oh, yes.
00:44:57Yes.
00:44:57I forget what it was called.
00:44:59Yeah.
00:44:59And nobody's heard of his songs.
00:45:01Yeah.
00:45:01Yeah.
00:45:02That's so funny.
00:45:03What would your current self tell your younger?
00:45:06The advice I would give might make the younger Stuart happy, but would have ruined his career,
00:45:13which is, dude, it's going to be fine.
00:45:16Relax.
00:45:17Now, if I had relaxed, I wouldn't have gotten where I got.
00:45:21No, I'm not talking, and by the way, I'm not talking about playing.
00:45:24I'm talking about in life.
00:45:25You know, I was on the phone.
00:45:27I couldn't go to bed at night unless I had accomplished something.
00:45:30I needed, you know, I can't let five minutes go by without advancing my cause in some way.
00:45:37And that urgency is why I got to where I got to, but it did make me anxious at the
00:45:43time.
00:45:43And I would say, dude, you're going to be fine, which would be bad advice.
00:45:47When did you realize, you know, oh, I should stop doing that?
00:45:51I don't know.
00:45:51Seven kids will calm you down.
00:45:55Seven kids, yeah.
00:45:55The perfect woman.
00:45:56Seven, 74 years of life will alleviate some of the angst.
00:46:01And even now, as this physical carcass is rotting away, I'm actually happier.
00:46:06Every passing decade, I find myself more cheerful than the previous decade.
00:46:11That's awesome.
00:46:12That's so great.
00:46:13I love it.
00:46:13I don't know why.
00:46:13There's no good reason for it.
00:46:14Well, I guess, you know, I got my kids around me.
00:46:17Life is pretty good, and I guess you get to the point where you can appreciate it.
00:46:21Yeah.
00:46:21But I have friends who are also musicians and others, crew members and stuff, who haven't
00:46:26been so financially, materially successful, who are in their 70s, who are also experiencing
00:46:33this strange thing of, as you get older, as your body withers away, your heart grows
00:46:39more peaceful.
00:46:40So unfair.
00:46:41Why does it take so long to, like, get wiser, to be chill?
00:46:44Sure.
00:46:45I guess you got to get slapped around by the world a little bit so you can appreciate
00:46:49when you're not getting slapped around.
00:46:51Yeah.
00:46:51I guess.
00:46:52What are the biggest misconceptions about the police?
00:46:55Well, the worst one is that we used to fight physically all the time and that Sting
00:46:59broke my rib.
00:47:00Jeez.
00:47:01I want to dispel this myth completely and once and for all.
00:47:05I broke his rib.
00:47:07Okay?
00:47:07Can we move on now?
00:47:10And by the way, we were both laughing hysterically at the time.
00:47:13We never, ever.
00:47:14Oh, it really happened?
00:47:16Yeah.
00:47:16We never fought in anger.
00:47:17We would only, you know, if we were angry, we would have much more damaging psychological
00:47:23weapons, you know.
00:47:25But the shiv, we knew exactly where to get that thing right in between the ribs there,
00:47:29you know.
00:47:30But never with physical violence.
00:47:32But the one time, we were playing Shea Stadium that day and the English press were all
00:47:37there taking pictures.
00:47:38It was like the Beatles conquering America again.
00:47:40And we were cheerful, happy and Sting grabs my New York Times and I grab it back.
00:47:44We get into a play tussle with like the monkeys, you know, a play tussle.
00:47:47And at one point, I, you know, I had to apply a knee to the rib case to get my
00:47:51newspaper
00:47:52back.
00:47:52And there's, you know, there was a hair, it turned out there was a hairline fracture.
00:47:58But we played the show last night, probably the best show we ever played.
00:48:01I think we all agree that was the night, you know, the apotheosis where we just nailed it
00:48:06on that night.
00:48:07Even though the press, the paparazzi were all there documenting this, still the myth
00:48:12went out that we fought all the time and one time Sting broke Stewart's rib.
00:48:17God dammit.
00:48:19I broke his rib.
00:48:20Right.
00:48:21Get it right.
00:48:22Oh, funny.
00:48:23Who are some of your favorite drummers of today?
00:48:26Uh, Eloy Casagrande and also Joey Jordison, who were both two drummers in Slipknot.
00:48:34Uh, nowadays the, the chops are all in death metal.
00:48:37And I love heavy metal, crunch metal, because for some reason, as I'm driving in my car,
00:48:43the sound of extremely angry young men cheers me up.
00:48:48I don't know why it is, but, but, but heavy metal just makes my day.
00:48:53Oh, I love it.
00:48:54Yeah.
00:48:55Yeah.
00:48:56I love you even more now.
00:48:58Uh.
00:48:58Oh, but, and I got another fan, Anika, who just joined Rush.
00:49:02Good on you, girl.
00:49:03You know, I was so, you know, the Jewish people have an expression, you know, verklempt.
00:49:09Uh, I'm probably mispronouncing it, but when I saw the Instagram clips of her playing Tom
00:49:13Sawyer, the moment, and Neil's fans are particularly rigid in their expectations.
00:49:19You know, I once asked Neil, how do you get the air drum going?
00:49:22I want it.
00:49:22I want that.
00:49:23And he said, well, you got to play the drum feels same every night.
00:49:26Okay.
00:49:26That's me out, you know, anyhow.
00:49:28So she's there with that audience and that responsibility and she gets to Tom Sawyer and
00:49:33nails it.
00:49:34And I'm thinking, oh, I'm all verklempt, you know, but then the audience response of just
00:49:39the joy, you know, that really got me, the fact that those Neil Peart fans, Rush fans,
00:49:46gave her that encouragement.
00:49:49Ah, ah, I'm a sucker for that stuff.
00:49:51Ah, it's so great.
00:49:52What other heavy metal bands do you like?
00:49:54Idols, heavy metal, I don't know if they count.
00:49:57They're not heavy metal, they're not thrash metal, you know.
00:50:00A couple of Metallica tunes I like.
00:50:01Or any bands.
00:50:03Any bands today?
00:50:04Yeah.
00:50:04Well, the big band on everyone's lips is Angine de Poitrine and here I am spreading it even
00:50:09further.
00:50:09That is the most sudden worldwide conquest of any artist I've ever seen.
00:50:14And you know, you don't know the name, but you know the guys on Instagram with the polka
00:50:19dots and the triangular head?
00:50:21Oh, yeah.
00:50:22Yeah.
00:50:22Exactly.
00:50:23And their music is totally wrong.
00:50:26You can't play pop music in 17-9 rhythm and yet they do and, you know, it's beautiful.
00:50:33It's really catchy and pretty and cool even though it's just way beyond sophisticated,
00:50:39way too sophisticated for a sane world.
00:50:42And yet they've just exploded because it's really catchy and really fun and cool in spite
00:50:47of being so clever.
00:50:48What about technology?
00:50:50Like what do you think of music today and how it's changed because of the technology?
00:50:52Well, good mad news.
00:50:54Good news is that through technology, everybody can make music, which is the way it should
00:50:58be.
00:50:58For the listeners, that increase, widens the talent pool.
00:51:02And for the people doing it, music, you know, homo sapiens evolved music to play and
00:51:09enjoy music before we figured out agriculture.
00:51:13You know, the first musical instruments are 30,000 years old.
00:51:16The first agricultural instruments are like only 10,000 years old.
00:51:2010,000 years ago, our ancestors figured out, hey, look, if we keep all these cows right
00:51:27here, we don't have to chase them over the Serengeti all the time.
00:51:31And if we take these barley seeds and water them, we got a food supply.
00:51:36And so the human population exploded when we discovered agriculture.
00:51:42We discovered music 20,000 years before that.
00:51:46We were making music.
00:51:47And archaeologists reckon that the reason that homo sapiens supplanted Neanderthal is because
00:51:52we have musical instruments in the strata of the caves where we live and the archaeologists
00:51:57dig up.
00:51:58The Neanderthals did not.
00:51:59And so music was evolved to join humans together.
00:52:05And humans with their music and their ritual communal gatherings joined by music, singing
00:52:11and dancing together.
00:52:13It was a cohesive force that held larger groups together so that us 20 homo sapiens could kick
00:52:20those five Neanderthal out of the fruit tree.
00:52:23And the music was this bonding force.
00:52:25What does music do for people?
00:52:29Sex, for one thing.
00:52:31Music is the language of love.
00:52:33You know, listen to the radio.
00:52:34What's it all about?
00:52:35It's about procreation.
00:52:37In fact, I would say that music is unique of all the art forms because it will physically
00:52:42usurp motor control of your body.
00:52:44It will cause you to twitch weirdly.
00:52:46And what form of twitching does it induce or inspire?
00:52:50Overt sexual display.
00:52:53Frusting pudenda.
00:52:56Which you don't get from Shakespeare or Rembrandt.
00:52:59Only music will actually cause you to move weirdly.
00:53:04So that tells you that it's way deep in our DNA.
00:53:07We don't do it just for fun.
00:53:09It's actually part of our humanity.
00:53:11That's for sure.
00:53:12How would you describe your personality?
00:53:14But you already told me that.
00:53:18Deeply emotional with a poignant sensitivity to others.
00:53:24I'll buy that.
00:53:26Secret to happiness in life.
00:53:28Relax.
00:53:29Something no one knows about you.
00:53:31I think everybody knows everything there is to know.
00:53:34My life is an open book.
00:53:36And now they know it was you that damaged Sting's rib.
00:53:39Mm-hmm.
00:53:40What's your favorite way to relax?
00:53:42Favorite way to relax?
00:53:43Making music.
00:53:44You know, officially I'm retired.
00:53:47Music for me is a hobby now.
00:53:49And so that's what I like to do is get on my guitar or my computer and concoct music.
00:53:54In fact, it's a problem trying to go on holiday when I haven't got my toys.
00:54:00I'm sitting on a beach somewhere in Hawaii or the Pacific or Mexico or wherever.
00:54:06And I'm sitting on a deck chair thinking, when's this flight going to end?
00:54:10Do you bring sticks with you like wherever you go?
00:54:13Okay.
00:54:13Nothing like that.
00:54:15Favorite cocktail?
00:54:16Favorite cocktail.
00:54:17Shot of tequila.
00:54:18Six o'clock.
00:54:20Turn the page.
00:54:21And that's it.
00:54:22That's my drinking for the night.
00:54:23I'm a total disgrace to my profession.
00:54:26I'm a milksop, in fact.
00:54:27One shot of tequila.
00:54:28That's my party.
00:54:29Because I just discovered that that second or third shot doesn't work.
00:54:34Yeah.
00:54:34And even that, you know, that's like, you know, a few days a week.
00:54:38You know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
00:54:41Favorite comfort food?
00:54:42Comfort food.
00:54:44Comfort food.
00:54:46Um, curry.
00:54:48Curry?
00:54:48Yeah.
00:54:49Hmm.
00:54:49Well, I grew up in England, mostly.
00:54:51And when I was doing the starving years, curry, an Indian curry was the biggest meal you could
00:54:59get for one quid.
00:55:00Um, and, uh, the most tasty, the most, had the most bulk.
00:55:05And I, to this day, I'm still totally a sucker for Indian cuisine.
00:55:09Oh, that's cool.
00:55:11Favorite place to travel?
00:55:12Italy.
00:55:13How come?
00:55:14Because of Italians.
00:55:15Yeah.
00:55:16Uh, the Italians are just the best.
00:55:19They are.
00:55:19They are.
00:55:20And, uh, they're so, it's a little, you have to adjust your, you know, I'm sort of Teutonic,
00:55:25uh, Northern European stock, which means that the casual Italian time, you have to relax
00:55:32a little, but it's worth it.
00:55:34They know how to do it.
00:55:35That's for sure.
00:55:35You know, the espresso, the pasta, the olive oil, but mainly the people.
00:55:40I just, I just love Italian people.
00:55:42I love being there.
00:55:43Oh, I love it.
00:55:45How do you stay fit?
00:55:46How do I stay fit?
00:55:48Involuntarily.
00:55:49Banging stuff.
00:55:51I don't, I'm allergic to going to the gym.
00:55:54Wouldn't be caught dead in the gym, but I bang stuff and that keeps me fit, I guess.
00:55:58And you, Fiona, you've been together for 33 years.
00:56:01Is that right?
00:56:02No, half a century.
00:56:03I first met her when she was 16 in 1976.
00:56:07So, yeah.
00:56:08And lots of kids.
00:56:09What are your tips for a successful marriage?
00:56:12Uh, humor.
00:56:13Uh, but the big one that I tell all youngsters is let every dinner be your first date.
00:56:20That's a good one.
00:56:20You got, the minute you start relaxing, then it's, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna
00:56:26lose it.
00:56:27And yeah, you can relax because this is your lifelong partner with whom you're supposed
00:56:31to be able to relax, but at least one time a day or call it dinner, you gotta impress,
00:56:37you gotta light each other up, you gotta, you gotta work out, you know, don't take it
00:56:41for granted.
00:56:41Yeah.
00:56:42You know, it doesn't, after, okay, after half a century, I don't need to work at it
00:56:46so hard because we're so in the pocket.
00:56:48But still, we maintain a level of humor and repartee and don't slob out with each other.
00:56:56That's good.
00:56:56That's a good one.
00:56:58Uh, anything you binge watch?
00:57:00Oh, yes.
00:57:00Survivor.
00:57:01Uh, we've been watching Survivor for 20 years.
00:57:05I, I, I met Jeff Probst, the host at a, at a Foo Fighters party of all things.
00:57:10But we watch two seasons a year, every year.
00:57:13And we watched it with the kids as they grew up.
00:57:16They've all grown up and out of the house now.
00:57:18But Fiona and I still watch it two seasons a year.
00:57:21We, we don't watch it when it's broadcast.
00:57:23We actually save them up so that we can binge watch every night.
00:57:26And for one thing, it's, um, you know, holiday porn, location porn, you know, those incredible
00:57:32locations that they shoot it at.
00:57:34To get to the end and win really takes a complex mix of, of social talent.
00:57:40You know, it's a social game, but also a physical game.
00:57:43So, there are people who've won who are like elderly, you know, or middle-aged, uh, totally unathletic women.
00:57:51Win, win, survivor.
00:57:53Not through winning the challenges or anything, but the social game.
00:57:57It's cool.
00:57:57I haven't seen that, believe it or not.
00:57:59I gotta check it out.
00:58:00Favorite movie of all time?
00:58:02Dr. Strangelove.
00:58:03What's the first movie you've ever saw?
00:58:05I can't remember.
00:58:07Okay.
00:58:07Probably Spartacus.
00:58:08Well, my brother, uh, gave judo lessons in high school.
00:58:12Oh, wow.
00:58:13And he would use his two younger brothers as dummies.
00:58:16And so Ian and I would, would be the dummies.
00:58:18And, uh, as a reward, he didn't cut us in on his profits, but he would take us to the
00:58:23movies.
00:58:23Aw.
00:58:24Was your mom okay with that?
00:58:25That you guys were all like in the music business?
00:58:28Yeah, particularly my father was, loved it.
00:58:31That's so cool.
00:58:32I feel like it's, you have to have like supportive parents.
00:58:35Like the, you know.
00:58:36Yeah.
00:58:36Well, my father was actually kind of a pop psychology fan and he had books around the
00:58:41house.
00:58:41This is, we're talking fifties now.
00:58:44It's fifties psycho stuff.
00:58:46And things like how to raise, how to raise your child's IQ and all this kind of stuff.
00:58:51And so he was actually pretty good at getting exactly the right, which I've tried to emulate
00:58:55with my kids, exactly the right mix of encouragement and discouragement of, wow, you've really got
00:59:02something there, but you got to work on this here.
00:59:04Right.
00:59:04Because unconditional support, your mom loves everything, it turns to dirt.
00:59:09It goes negative.
00:59:10Mom, shut up.
00:59:11I'm not that good, you know.
00:59:13So my father was able to, and every parent should seek to attain a balance of encouragement
00:59:19and discouragement.
00:59:21Or rather, encouragement and challenge.
00:59:23Right, right.
00:59:24You know, that's really good, but you think you ought to work on this here.
00:59:27Right.
00:59:28And by the way, a small compliment from such a parent goes a lot further than the gushing
00:59:34mom who just loves everything.
00:59:36If you didn't play music, what would you be?
00:59:39A photographer, journalist.
00:59:41And you did that.
00:59:41In fact, I did start, I never did photography.
00:59:44I did, I shot super eight movies for fun, probably because I like writing.
00:59:49And I did start a magazine when I was in college, but the music kept dragging me back.
00:59:53Well, thank God.
00:59:56Birthday plans, you'll be 74 in two days.
00:59:58Yeah, I'll be 74.
01:00:00God knows what town I'll be playing, but it's not a big deal.
01:00:02I think Jersey.
01:00:03Okay.
01:00:03Happy birthday, Jersey.
01:00:04Happy birthday to you.
01:00:0674.
01:00:07Yep.
01:00:08We have birthday cupcakes for you in the other room.
01:00:10Aw, shucks.
01:00:11Have you got a story?
01:00:12Me?
01:00:13Yeah.
01:00:14This is my story.
01:00:15This is it.
01:00:16I can die now.
01:00:17Well, cool.
01:00:17Let's go hit those cupcakes.
01:00:19Excellent.
01:00:23Have fun.