- 2 weeks ago
What does it mean to be Malaysian today? Through Bebenang, director Farah Rani and producer/actor Sidhart Joe Dev explore the many stories that shape our identity, why they matter, and what it will take to build a thriving arts scene in Malaysia.
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00:06Hello and welcome to It's About Youth with me, Faye Kwan.
00:10What does it mean to be Malaysian in today's day and age?
00:14The answer isn't necessarily easy, sometimes even complex,
00:18but perhaps theatre might get us closer or at least give multiple unheard stories a stage.
00:24Joining me in the studio today is Farah Rani and Sidat Jodef.
00:28They are the director as well as producer and actor for Bebenang,
00:32which is an original theatre piece that unravels the complex threats of identity,
00:37memory and intergenerational as well as political expectations within Malaysia.
00:42Welcome the both of you.
00:43Thank you so much for having us.
00:45It is a pleasure to have you here today and to discuss such an interesting and important topic.
00:50Firstly, when we're talking about the production, Bebenang itself,
00:53it's described as an almost Malaysian story.
00:56So I'd like to just start off with that.
00:59Why almost?
01:00And what does that say about how you see or how the crew sees Malaysian identity today?
01:07Farah?
01:07Well, Bebenang is a collection of Malaysian stories, true Malaysian stories, verbatim.
01:14And they deal with how we connect to identity, how we feel about belonging.
01:23But also it threads our lives together, right?
01:30It's one of these threads that create this tapestry of what Malaysia is.
01:34So when we say almost, I think halfway through the process, Leisha, one of our producers,
01:40she said, hey, we can't tell all Malaysian stories because we realize that each story is so specific.
01:51And it depends on where you were brought up, who your parents were, what your socioeconomic status is.
01:58And so to say that it's a Malaysian story feels inadequate.
02:02Right.
02:03And that's why it's almost...
02:04Almost Malaysian story.
02:05Almost Malaysian story.
02:06Because we can't tell all Malaysian stories because then the show will be interminable.
02:13There's no limit to that.
02:16And we don't have the budget for that.
02:19Thank you for being so honest about that.
02:21Sure.
02:21But when you say it like that, perhaps that's the most Malaysian of all, right?
02:25Acknowledging the different backgrounds, multicultural races, and different experiences based on where you've grown up.
02:32This production that you've mentioned already is Verbatim Theatre.
02:36And it was built from interviews with everyday Malaysians.
02:41I'd like to walk through a little bit of that process because after listening to so many different experiences,
02:46did the both of you come away with a clearer picture of what it means to be Malaysian today?
02:50Beyond our love for food, obviously.
02:53That's that.
02:55That was the commonality.
02:59Sid, would you like to take this?
03:01What we discovered in this process is that we are so different yet similar.
03:07And I think that was very, very strong, you know?
03:10I think with every story, with everything that people had to share, you know, of course,
03:14everything came from different experiences, different race, different religion, geography.
03:20But then, strangely, we all feel the same about things, things that we grew up with.
03:26And I think that's very uniquely Malaysian, right?
03:28I think Malaysians today, the younger generation especially, we are not trying to pretend that,
03:34oh, we are all multicultural and we are just Bangsa Malaysia and call it today, you know?
03:38I think we are asking perhaps the important, sometimes uncomfortable questions about who we are and who we truly are.
03:47And, you know, let's not just pretend that we are multicultural without having to recognise who we really are
03:52and our parents, our ancestors, you know, it's time for us to focus on those stories as well
03:57and to truly recognise the fact that we are different.
04:00We are not the same.
04:01We are different.
04:02But all these stories, they belong to this country, you know?
04:07So I think that's the discovery, that we're very different, that we don't have to pretend anymore
04:11that we are just Satu Bangsa Malaysia, you know, that the differences don't exist.
04:16They do exist.
04:17We all know they do exist.
04:18Is there that we don't speak about it?
04:20I think the younger generation today are okay to speak about those things and say,
04:24hey, look, Farah and I, we're very different, you know?
04:27We, of course, are politically very different ideas and racially different, religion-wise we're different,
04:32but we are so similar because we have this shared experience about the joy of growing up in Malaysia,
04:38the struggles in Malaysia and all of it, you know?
04:41So I think that's what this verbatim, the stories from people reminded us of that,
04:45okay, it's okay to be different and be Malaysian.
04:48Yeah, just to jump on that, we realize two things, that yes, we have these very specific,
04:56very different, very distinct experiences as Malaysians, even growing up in the same neighborhood,
05:01even, you know?
05:02But then even more so with people outside of the state that we grew up in.
05:09But underneath that, we all grieve the same, we all love the same, we all love nasi lemak, right?
05:16Like, I mean, that sounds kind of surface, a surface comment, but that shared love is something,
05:26it means something, it connects us in some way.
05:29So, yeah, so that we are very different, but ultimately there are things that we experience that are the same.
05:36But also when we speak about, see, things like we love nasi lemak, it's not just because we love food,
05:40it's also the experience of eating nasi lemak and where we could, you know, get those nasi lemak from this
05:45machi,
05:46who's always been so loving, school canteen, you know, people,
05:49and if you, if you grew up in the early 2000s, you have this people coming from door to door,
05:56especially if you're living in flats and condos, you know, and not condos, flats, I would say,
06:00selling nasi lemak in front of your house.
06:02So I think it's that shared journey that we have, that's what made us,
06:05oh, we love nasi lemak, not just the love for food, actually.
06:08But then also, sorry, we're talking so much.
06:11But then also, I think there was a, there was an early draft where we had a piece
06:15about how nasi lemak is truly Malaysian.
06:18Each component of the nasi lemak is, is from a specific race, a specific way of life.
06:26And the nasi lemak represents us, like, physically or, or culinarily.
06:33Yeah.
06:34And at the end of the day, it also comes in many different variations.
06:37Yes.
06:38Some kerang, some sotong, how you like your rice, how you like your chicken.
06:41Thank you so much.
06:43That was, that was really enjoyable to watch the both of you just riffraff of each other.
06:48But Sid, you did mention about how it's kind of bringing in these tougher conversations
06:53or rather addressing certain things that perhaps older generations may,
06:57may not bring to light or bring to surface.
07:00And you also talked about how the younger generation may sort of be more open to,
07:05to talk about it these days.
07:06I wonder then, how do you find young Malaysians defining belonging or their Malaysian identity
07:12today differently from previous generations?
07:15Okay.
07:16This might be a controversial take, but it's my opinion.
07:19I do find the differences in the sense that I think the younger generation,
07:23I think the older generation, the elders especially, they came from different background, right?
07:29In the sense that they have seen this post-World War, whatever, left in the country.
07:34And then you have this colonial era.
07:36Then you have Japanese occupation, 1969.
07:38So they've gone through this crisis.
07:40So I think they were forming this Bangsa Malaysia as a form of,
07:47let's form something that keeps us united, you know?
07:51Let's forget our differences and let's come together with this idea of Bangsa Malaysia
07:56and we are multicultural and whatsoever and let's stay there.
08:01So forgetting their stories, their struggles and whatnot.
08:04Okay, we are here now, we are Malaysians, we're all Malaysians, we're all equal, that's it.
08:09The younger generation today, I feel like we are taking a lot more ownership in who we are
08:15as in our stories, our ancestral stories, our parents and grandparents
08:20and we recognize where we come from, the kind of struggles that we have.
08:24And we are saying it as it is, as in we are a lot more brave to talk about,
08:31okay, this was our struggle because I think if you sort of just call it Bangsa Malaysia
08:36without having to recognize the race and religion, especially in this country,
08:40then you're kind of, in a way, erasing the struggles each of us have to face
08:44because, I mean, you have to agree that not all of us had the similar struggles, right?
08:52Politically, socially, economically, we all had different struggles.
08:55But here we are today and the reason why we are here today is because we work hard for it.
09:00So I think it's important for you to recognize what the elders have done.
09:03So I think that's where the younger generation today, they are at.
09:07They are like, no, it's okay.
09:08Okay, let's call it as it is.
09:10Let's not pretend anymore.
09:11Let's just recognize the fact that, yes, we're all different.
09:16Just coming back to the same thing I said, yes, we're all different.
09:19But it's important to not just like wash away all these histories and stories.
09:23And perhaps that's what we're trying to do with Bebenang.
09:25You know, we are trying to bring back the stories.
09:28We are trying to tell different stories and different perspectives from different era as well
09:32and put it out there and not to spoon feed the audience just to tell them,
09:37oh, this is what being Malaysian means.
09:39But just to give you an idea, this is also Malaysian in every way and form.
09:44But I also feel that 69 really changed how we viewed each other.
09:52And from this place of we don't want this to happen again.
09:56And that's a fear, right?
10:00When that happened, I feel like we couldn't really speak our truths,
10:05that we weren't able or we had a fear to not rock the boat.
10:13And this idea of tolerance came up, which I personally despise.
10:19Because tolerance is not acceptance.
10:21Tolerance is not community.
10:23Tolerance is, yeah, I guess I tolerate you, right?
10:26And, I mean, okay, I'm not a young person.
10:29But I also want to say that it's changed so much from when I was a child, right?
10:36When I was growing up, everybody read the same three newspapers.
10:42Everybody watched the same TV shows, right?
10:45And now, everything is global and instant.
10:50But algorithms, man, you kind of get stuck in your...
10:55If you're a young person, I really admire your optimism.
10:58But I also feel that algorithms have created different silos.
11:05And so, yeah, there must be some balance between these two things.
11:09Understanding our history, but whose history?
11:12And I guess that's the point of Babanang trying to show these different stories,
11:18these different histories, these different narratives of what being Malaysian is.
11:22I mean, it is very easy to get stuck in those sort of echo chambers
11:26when the algorithm keeps feeding you news that you only want to watch
11:30and whatever aligns with your perception of reality, right?
11:34And I think that really brings me to my next question,
11:38where you talked about how things are so instant.
11:41Social media is, you know, prevalent.
11:43And in an age of TikTok and Instagram,
11:47what can live theatre or verbatim theatre create that these platforms cannot?
11:51The sort of message that it can bring.
11:53There's nothing like live theatre.
11:58Just having bodies in a space.
12:00And I think that's what we lack right now, right?
12:03We are on our phones at home.
12:06Even when we're with people, we're on our phones, right?
12:09So that, just that physicality, bodies in space together,
12:15experiencing one thing together, a joke, laughter.
12:22Something happens that you find moving and you see someone else,
12:27or you hear just a, and then you feel less alone.
12:31I think that's what theatre does.
12:33You experience one very specific thing collectively.
12:39And that collective experience is not, cannot be replicated.
12:44It's not just a video you can record and press replay.
12:47It's different every single time you watch and experience it, right?
12:51And I think that you've spoken so much and acknowledged so much
12:57about Malaysia's diversity and different backgrounds
12:59and how it is a lot more complex to identify Malaysian identity than we think.
13:06But going then now into spaces to kind of talk about this,
13:12what do you think?
13:14Do we create enough spaces for people to genuinely listen to experiences
13:17that are different from our own, different from these echo chambers we exist in?
13:21And can theatre sort of help bridge that gap?
13:25We have a lot of space to talk, though.
13:28I don't know if we have enough space to listen.
13:31I think that's very Malaysian, right?
13:33We love to talk, but I don't know if we love to listen.
13:37This is across age, I would say.
13:41Everybody loves to talk.
13:42But yeah, I think that's where theatre can become really, really powerful, right?
13:45So, you know, it gives you this space.
13:47Very immediate, you are with the storyteller telling you the story.
13:52And then if you're also talking about the social media,
13:55it also gives you the access to skip whatever you don't want to watch.
13:58So you're only consuming what you think you should consume, right?
14:02But when you're in a theatre space and you're watching a show for like an hour or two,
14:07this might be things that you may not agree with,
14:09but here you are sitting and listening to the stories, right?
14:14And maybe something will change in you, you know?
14:16Like I said, you may not agree with it,
14:18but you kind of understand where people are coming from.
14:20I think that's what's important, that sometimes it's okay to not agree,
14:23but just the first step is just to listen.
14:26You know, I think that's why theatre can become really powerful
14:29in the sense that it's okay if you don't agree,
14:31but you can just come and listen to it.
14:33And then maybe on your way home, driving back home,
14:36maybe something will, you know, trigger something.
14:39Maybe you'll think about it and then you talk to a friend,
14:41hey, I watched something and I don't agree with it.
14:43What do you think?
14:44You know, that's a room for conversation.
14:45I think that's what we do with theatre, to start the conversation.
14:49I think also what's really interesting is,
14:51because the cast is so diverse in, like, generationally, experience,
14:57and just, yeah, points of view, they're very different points of view.
15:01There are nine of us.
15:02And so we get into these heated debates sometimes in rehearsal,
15:07because people will have very differing opinions.
15:11And sometimes their opinions will change based on these conversations.
15:16So, like, ideally, I wish Malaysia was like a rehearsal studio,
15:20where we can really sit and speak honestly.
15:23This is my point of view.
15:24This is how I grew up.
15:25And this is why I believe this.
15:28Yes, in fact, that conversation really, I think,
15:31has informed this play and our views of the country, I think.
15:36And that just fosters better understanding of each other
15:40and perhaps the real definition of tolerance that you talk about, right?
15:44Because you know where all these different people are coming from.
15:47There are different perspectives.
15:49Then, in that sense, then, do you think when it comes to investing
15:53in the country's future, should storytelling and the arts
15:56also be seen as part of nation building?
15:59Yes, obviously.
16:02Very much so.
16:04I think I was just telling Farah just now about this question.
16:06I was like, oh, it's such an interesting question, you know,
16:10because when we talk about building infrastructure,
16:13yes, infrastructures build cities, but stories build people.
16:17And you need people to build the infrastructure.
16:19So it's on a loop.
16:21And it's people individually, but people as a community,
16:26building community, understanding that we're very different people.
16:30We have very different beliefs, but our values ultimately are the same.
16:36And who are we building this infrastructure for?
16:38For people and what kind of life they're going to live
16:40if you don't teach them empathy with arts and story, right?
16:44We don't teach them to recognize their history
16:46and perhaps expect a better future, you know?
16:50I think that's what we do with arts, so rightfully so.
16:53And it goes hand-in-hand with any other industry.
16:56If you're a doctor, I think you kind of need to understand
16:58how to speak to people or to have some empathy to understand
17:03outside yourself, right?
17:04And the world outside you, that applies to everything,
17:09every job you do.
17:10So absolutely, the teaching of drama and theatre should be everywhere.
17:18It just has a bad reputation, right?
17:21Theatre has a bad PR.
17:23Drama has a bad PR.
17:24The arts have a bad PR.
17:26When you grow up, when you're in government school,
17:28if you don't do well in your exams, you're in the arts stream.
17:35So it's already seen as something not academically inclined people do.
17:41Whereas I think it should be side by side.
17:45And I think that negative connotation has sort of dragged down over the years
17:50because clearly we're talking about the importance
17:53and how it really contributes to nation building.
17:55And yet, it's hard for young creatives to sort of balance
17:59both passion and sustainability.
18:01It doesn't always go hand-in-hand.
18:03How challenging would you say today it is
18:05to build a long-term career in Malaysian theatre and art?
18:08It's incredibly challenging.
18:10You're taking a very deep breath.
18:12Yeah, it's a big sigh.
18:15When you talk about this negative connotation, right?
18:18I see part of it also is because of the sustainability.
18:20You know, when you talk about, say, when you're in school,
18:23when your teacher says you're not good in science or you go to arts,
18:26the reason being that, oh, if you do science, then you get paid really well.
18:29Then you have a high-paying job.
18:30And when you do in arts, no, you might not have a high-paying job.
18:33You're going to be an artist anyway.
18:35You're going to be a starving artist.
18:36That's even worse.
18:38So I think that adds to the idea of arts is not good.
18:42But to answer your question, it's not sustainable.
18:46I mean, look at us.
18:46Talking about art, sitting here, we both don't have a full-time career in the arts.
18:49We have to do multiple tiny, small jobs.
18:53Yeah, anything that is so...
18:54I was a full-time actor for 17, 18 years.
18:58Only in the past few years have I started teaching more regularly
19:01because I realized that I'm an adult and I need to maybe have a retirement fund.
19:07But I teach career management in Sunray University to performing arts students.
19:13And yes, of course, I want to inspire them,
19:17really question them on what kind of art they want to make
19:20and the impact they want to make in the world.
19:24And also with specific, practical skills on how to produce,
19:30how to create shows and all those things.
19:32But I also very realistically remind them you need a job.
19:36You need to find other ways in making money,
19:40which kills me every time I have to say it.
19:42But it's true.
19:45Passion doesn't pay the rent.
19:48But that's not set on stone.
19:49We can change that.
19:50I don't think this narrative necessarily have to be the same.
19:56If you're an artist in Malaysia, then you will forever be underpaid.
19:58I think we can change that.
20:00I think I'm being very optimistic about it.
20:02Yeah, I love this.
20:02This is youth.
20:03This is the future.
20:06This is what I love doing.
20:07I can't lose hope.
20:08I have to keep believing there is a better future for all of us.
20:12And it's top-down, right?
20:13We need to have political will,
20:16but also we as artists need to band together and be like,
20:19hey, we can't get paid this much.
20:22Shifting to that part of the conversation then,
20:25because clearly a thriving art scene
20:27takes more than just talented, passionate young individuals.
20:29It's really a collective effort.
20:33Farah, what do you think then?
20:34What is an ideal arts ecosystem in Malaysia?
20:38What needs to change to make it more sustainable?
20:40for young talent like Sid to drive?
20:45I think awareness and acknowledgement.
20:48I think there needs to be a real change of mindset
20:54on the role of art in society.
20:57I don't know how to do that.
20:59If I did, then we wouldn't be here.
21:01The budget of this production would be so much bigger.
21:03But yes, like a change of mindset, both top-down, right?
21:09This idea that art matters, that art contributes,
21:15is complementary to the sciences, to industry, to corporations,
21:20to capitalism even, to humanize capitalism,
21:24for a better world, really.
21:27And Sid, you know, standing on stage in front of the audience,
21:31do you think that Malaysians have become more open
21:34to local theatre in that sense, more supportive of it?
21:37Or is there still this perception that theatre
21:41is only for a very niche audience?
21:44I think the younger generation, they're open to...
21:47Actually, they want more local stories.
21:49I think this access to this, say, global cinema,
21:53global stories, you know, the access of having to travel
21:55to West End and watch a show, or Broadway to watch a show,
21:58and then you come back craving for...
21:59It's like you travel to a different country,
22:01but you're like, damn, I miss that nasi lama.
22:03I want to eat some spicy food, right?
22:04So I think we've had that for many years now
22:06that we have, you know, we've really looked
22:09at all this Western art form, which is great, by the way.
22:13But then you kind of look at, look back and like,
22:15hey, where is our story?
22:16I want to see myself on stage.
22:17I want to see my story, my family and whatsoever.
22:20So I think there's a craving of that from younger people
22:23where they want to see more of them,
22:25more of their stories, which is where I feel like
22:27it's a plus one for us.
22:28You know, when we do shows like Bobanang about us,
22:31Malaysians, we know that we have the audience.
22:33You know that you have the younger people
22:34will walk in and watch.
22:36You know, they're not just...
22:37I know we don't give the Gen Zs a lot of credit there.
22:40We don't give them a lot of credit.
22:42But they do appreciate the fact that they are local
22:46and Malaysian, and they do take a lot of pride
22:48in our stories.
22:49Yeah, the younger, younger people are open to our stories.
22:54You mentioned that it's niche.
22:57I think what makes it not niche,
23:00and in my experience in my past 20 years,
23:02the productions that really had a big audience reaction
23:07were plays that were Malaysian.
23:10Plays like Para and Gold Rain and Hailstones
23:12that really brought the audiences in
23:14because they recognize these characters.
23:16that could be my uncle.
23:17I know this person.
23:18And in the specificity of that Malaysian-ness,
23:22I think theatre gets away from this niche idea
23:27and becomes more accessible.
23:30But also making it accessible nationwide, right?
23:33Yes.
23:33And not necessarily an idea for you to just travel to the city
23:36to be able to catch a show that you can relate to.
23:39But really, ultimately, as we've been discussing this
23:43throughout this episode,
23:44Bebenang is just about bringing different experiences together
23:46to form an almost Malaysian story.
23:50As we cap off this show, then,
23:52what do you think or what do you hope audiences
23:54will take away from it?
23:55Because it also talks about challenging a narrative
24:00or the norm.
24:02What sort of questions do you hope they walk away with
24:06and discussions that they may have after?
24:07I don't know about questions,
24:11but I hope that it is resonant,
24:16that people see these different forms of Malaysian-ness
24:19that they recognize.
24:23But I also hope that they are surprised by some of the story.
24:26Like, oh, I didn't know if that is something I see
24:29and I know next to a story that I've never heard of,
24:33never understood this perspective,
24:35never thought of this point of view,
24:36then we can say that these both things next together,
24:40next to each other, are as Malaysian.
24:43Yeah.
24:44So for it to be resonant,
24:45for audiences to be moved,
24:47and for, hopefully, them to be surprised as well.
24:51Right.
24:52And for audiences who've been watching
24:54and those who are interested in catching Bebenang,
24:56where can they find more information?
24:58Where can they find you?
25:02Well, we started selling tickets on cloudjoy.com,
25:06so the show is called Bebenang.
25:08We are performing at Damansara Performing Arts Centre,
25:10that would be from the 6th to 16th of August,
25:142026, which is in about two weeks' time.
25:16Two weeks' time!
25:17We have about 10 shows,
25:19or they can find on our Instagram,
25:21which is Bebenang Stories or J. Dave Studios.
25:24Right.
25:25Thank you so much, the both of you,
25:26for joining me for this conversation today.
25:28It's been a pleasure to have you and to speak with you.
25:31Thank you for sharing your insights as well.
25:33I've been speaking with Farah Rani and Sidatjo Dev from Bebenang.
25:38This has been It's About Youth with me,
25:40Fei Kuan.
25:41Thank you for watching,
25:42and we'll see you again next time.
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