00:00We spoke with sports columnist Jonathan Wilson, the author of The Power and the Glory, A New History of the
00:05World Cup,
00:05about Gianni Infantino's legacy and his impact on FIFA.
00:09In February 2016, he takes over and he says, right, we're going to clean everything up.
00:13He ostentatiously flies on a budget carrier to his first FIFA Congress.
00:18You'll have noted that's changed to the private address.
00:20I'd say, yeah, that didn't last long, but...
00:23And he said, look, we've got far too many committees, we need to clear these out.
00:26It's massively inefficient.
00:28Then in 2024, a vote was taken to increase the number of standing committees at FIFA from 7 to 35.
00:35Now, the reason this is significant is that if you are a delegate representing one of the 211 FIFA members,
00:42you will be appointed to various committees.
00:44Each committee brings with it a stipend and very generous expenses.
00:48That's where that money goes.
00:49And that's where the money goes.
00:51And of course, if you're the delegate from Country X, it doesn't matter if people in Country X think,
00:57oh, your FIFA's a disgrace, Infantino's an idiot, oh, we've got to get rid of him, ticket prices are too
01:02high.
01:03He just thinks, I'm getting this lovely bunch of money, and why am I going to vote against the president
01:08who brings that to me?
01:09So this is very strategic, expanding these committees.
01:11It's basic clientelism.
01:13I mean, the other thing that the money does, and this is slightly more complex, there are two schemes.
01:19The gold project, which was introduced by Seppolato in 1998, and the forward project, which is Infantino's great plan.
01:26And this redistributes money from FIFA to federations.
01:30So, for instance, say you're, I don't know, the FA of Gabon, and you say, look, we need a new
01:36national stadium.
01:36A national stadium's falling down.
01:38Actually, we govern these national stadiums quite nice, but just for sake of argument, Gabon.
01:42And people go, yeah, okay, you can't afford that, but it'd be useful if you had a nice new stadium.
01:47You can generate revenue through that.
01:49And so we'll give some of these great profits from the World Cup, and the World Cup is by far
01:54the biggest.
01:55Level of playing field, kind of literally some places.
01:57But that seems like a nice mission.
01:59But, of course, none of these are properly audited.
02:01So there hasn't been a review since 2016, which is probably itself significant.
02:05But the review in 2016 said 81% of those 211 member nations are not properly audited.
02:11So that money is going...
02:12Well, who knows?
02:13But I think we can guess.
02:15On that note, there's also, Infantino's been catching a lot of flack for this thing that happened with the U
02:23.S. player revoking the red card after...
02:27Well, technically, he didn't revoke the red card.
02:29He suspended the suspension.
02:31So the suspension was suspended for a year.
02:33Exactly the same as he'd done with Cristiano Ronaldo, who was sent off in the penultimate qualifier.
02:37So he was given a three-game ban for that.
02:39He served one game, and the final two games were suspended.
02:41But also three other players, basically, to make it less obvious that Ronaldo was getting dispensation because they want Ronaldo
02:51at the World Cup.
02:52And I think you can say this follows from the situation with the Club World Cup last year where, I
02:57don't know if you remember, but essentially two Mexican teams who qualified had the same owner.
03:01You can't have that.
03:02One of them had to step down.
03:03Oh, wow.
03:03So it should have meant the MLS champions got in, but instead it went into Miami because that gets you
03:09messy in because they finished top of the regular season.
03:12There does seem to be a little wading towards these more popular players.
03:15It's gerrymandering to get the most famous people involved.
03:18Now, you might say, look, tennis tournaments, golf tournaments do this kind of thing all the time with wild cards.
03:22Let's get somebody famous, somebody popular.
03:24It drives revenue.
03:25Where's the problem?
03:27Well, the problem is it's one thing to do if your tournament has 128 participants.
03:31Right, and there's a slot specifically for those shenanigans.
03:33Yeah.
03:34It's quite another when there is a qualification process or if you're overriding a disciplinary process.
03:40So with Balogun, the fact that he could play against Belgium, he is the first player since Gerinche in 1962
03:46to be sent off at the World Cup and not be suspended for the next game.
03:50And the reason that's so damaging, it's not just that it feels unfair, it's that it casts into doubt the
03:56integrity of the entire competition.
03:58So if you are, for instance, Egypt, who are very unhappy with some of the refereeing against Argentina, and I
04:03think you can understand a couple of 50-50 calls, key 50-50 calls went against them.
04:08And then I think, well, hang on, is that just because we were a bit unlucky or is that because
04:13there is some directive from on high that Lionel Messi, because he's famous because he generates revenue, has to be
04:18kept in the tournament?
04:18This decision with the red card is quite controversial.
04:21You don't think that will hurt him in the elections or you think he has enough committees and other friends
04:26that he will get to stay?
04:27There's already 200 of the 211 members have said they'll back him.
04:30So it will be by acclimation.
04:33So, I mean, I think it has damaged him.
04:36And I think there's two aspects of this World Cup that have damaged him.
04:40So firstly, I think there probably are good delegates who recognize this as a problem of integrity.
04:47There may even be quite cynical delegates who think, actually, if the integrity of the competition is undermined, is it
04:55going to carry on generating revenue as it does?
04:58Is the world...
04:58Right.
04:59At some point...
05:00If the world loses faith, then, you know, sport doesn't work without faith.
05:03The dramatic twists at the end, if you think that might have been scripted, well, then you're watching wrestling or
05:08drama.
05:08You're not going to pay these absurd ticket prices if it's not real.
05:11So...
05:12We have that sport here.
05:13It's called wrestling.
05:14Totally different audience.
05:15Yeah.
05:15So that's one element of it.
05:16The other is, I think, to do with...
05:20Infantino has made this big point of this is the most inclusive World Cup ever, which I'm afraid is clearly
05:25nonsense.
05:26When even one of his own referees, Amaratan from Somalia, can't get into the country.
05:31Plus, I mean, I think it depends on the individual country, but roughly 80% of applicants, applications by fans
05:38and journalists from Africa to come to the tournament were turned down by the US and by Canada.
05:42That is, by definition, not inclusive.
05:45And given Infantino likes to portray himself as his champion of the global south, that is a position that's much
05:50harder to maintain.
05:52So I don't think it's going to have an immediate impact, but it has slightly weakened him.
05:55And what it might mean is if you were planning to change FIFA's constitution to allow him to stand again
06:01in 2027, maybe he'll be a little more reluctant to do that.
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