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00:00Ah, yes, we've got ourselves a World Cup final.
00:03Argentina does it again with messy magic.
00:06Spain knocks off mighty France.
00:09And all ends Sunday in New Jersey.
00:12Alexi Lalas joins me to talk about that
00:14and, of course, Team USA's future,
00:16right now on Shine Time.
00:18Don't stop.
00:20Keep it coming, baby.
00:22Don't stop.
00:28Joining us again today,
00:30a U.S. men's national team legend,
00:33World Cup analyst for Fox.
00:35He's been doing an amazing job throughout this tournament.
00:37We are thrilled to welcome him back before the final,
00:40my guy Alexi Lalas.
00:42Alexi, welcome back to Shine Time, my friend.
00:45Hello, my friend.
00:46Yeah, we are, after all over the place,
00:49I find myself in New York City
00:51getting ready for this final on Sunday.
00:53So it's been a hell of a ride on and off the field.
00:56We live in interesting times
00:58when it comes to what this World Cup is,
01:00but we finally narrowed it down to two here for the final.
01:03By the way, I just feel compelled to start there, right?
01:05Because I'm always honest with you and the audience.
01:08I always like the World Cup.
01:09I'm into it.
01:10I always think it's amazing theater and drama.
01:13I think this is the most compelling,
01:15most amazing World Cup we've ever seen.
01:17You know, having it in America, North America,
01:19the game time, start times.
01:21You guys at Fox are part of it.
01:23The coverage has been superb.
01:25The stars have come to play.
01:27You feel the vibes that I do,
01:29and I'm more of a casual, diehard sports fan,
01:32analyst, obviously,
01:33but you feel it from an expert perspective
01:35that this is arguably the best World Cup we've ever seen?
01:38Yeah, I mean, so from the beginning of the tournament,
01:40or at the beginning of the tournament,
01:42we were kind of, you know,
01:43in our little world of the studio,
01:46and so I didn't realize what was happening outside.
01:48And then as they finally started getting us out on the road,
01:51it became very evident
01:53that this was something that was massive.
01:55Now, I saw the numbers,
01:56so I knew people were watching,
01:58people were tuning in,
01:58but just the way that it has permeated
02:01through the country and culture has been wonderful.
02:04The other thing that it has done,
02:06and this is a wonderful byproduct of it,
02:08is that we have seen our country,
02:10we as Americans,
02:11and people that have come over
02:13through the lens of this World Cup.
02:15And, I mean, you could not have asked
02:17for a better commercial.
02:19And the appreciation and the respect
02:21and the perspective that has been gained,
02:24again, through this lens,
02:25has been, I think, invaluable going forward.
02:28And sometimes you need to see what you have
02:30through another lens to really appreciate it,
02:33but I love the fact that we have seen that.
02:35So it's been wonderful.
02:37We've had a good time.
02:38I do agree.
02:39I think that this,
02:39and I know I'm a little biased,
02:40but I think that this is the best World Cup
02:42that we have ever had,
02:43both on and off the field.
02:44We know it's the biggest,
02:44doesn't always mean it's the best,
02:45but I think this is the greatest one.
02:47What we have seen,
02:48the stars you mentioned,
02:49the games that we have seen,
02:50the teams that we didn't expect to do well.
02:52The list goes on and on and on.
02:54It's checked every box for success.
02:56We're on the exact same page.
02:58And I want to start with that match yesterday
03:00because I saw it.
03:02I still don't believe it.
03:03I mean, I guess I do
03:04because it's messy in Argentina,
03:05but, I mean,
03:06the ability for Argentina
03:08to storm back late
03:09with those two late goals
03:10and, you know,
03:11break England's hearts,
03:12and I was so locked,
03:14Alexi,
03:14into you and the incredible crew after.
03:17I want to start with the tactics for England.
03:20Even before we get into messy
03:21and what happened with Argentina,
03:23take us through the issues,
03:24the coaching failures
03:26and faux pas,
03:27if you will,
03:28that contributed to the result.
03:31So, in a lot of sports,
03:32we have time management, right?
03:34And there, you know,
03:36are incredible coaches, managers,
03:38whatever you want to call them,
03:39that part of their job
03:41and part of their strategy
03:42is to recognize when to make changes.
03:44Now, those changes can come
03:45in the form of personnel.
03:46They can come in the form of tactics.
03:48And they can come in the form of,
03:50you know,
03:50just how you are going about
03:53trying to see out the game.
03:55And I think this is a perfect example yesterday.
03:57This was a pretty evenly matched game.
03:59It was a knife fight
04:01between these two teams,
04:03a slugfest.
04:03There were yellow cards.
04:04There was fouling.
04:06But then the U.S.
04:07Not the U.S.
04:08We should be so lucky.
04:09Then England goes up 1-0, right?
04:11And conventional wisdom says,
04:14all right, in this close game,
04:16you've got to be smart
04:17about what's going on.
04:18The problem that a lot of people have,
04:20and it's completely fair,
04:21is that the moment in which
04:23England decided to pull back
04:25and absorb pressure,
04:26which is certainly
04:27a justifiable thing to do at times,
04:30was too early.
04:32And it put them on their back heels
04:34and on the defensive
04:35at a point when they should have tried
04:38to continue to push forward.
04:39Not to be risky,
04:40but to continue to push forward.
04:41It's one thing if you're getting
04:42your ass kicked all game
04:43and you're just batting down the hatches
04:46and bend but don't break.
04:47But that was not the case here
04:49for this England team.
04:50And I think that's where
04:50a lot of the anger
04:52and the consternation
04:53and the confusion comes
04:55as to why did,
04:56in this case,
04:57Thomas Tuchel,
04:57the German coach
04:59for England,
05:01why in that moment,
05:02you're up 1-0,
05:04did they go
05:06and become defensive
05:08at that time
05:09and what was the reasoning for it?
05:11And ultimately,
05:11to your point,
05:13how are you going to legislate
05:14for Messi?
05:16You know,
05:16the guy just,
05:17he turns it on
05:18and does things
05:19that we've never seen before.
05:20But if Thomas Tuchel
05:22had to do this over again,
05:23obviously,
05:24it's easy to say,
05:26yeah,
05:26you would have done
05:26some things differently.
05:27and I felt it.
05:29Look,
05:29and, you know,
05:30park the bus,
05:30prevent defense,
05:31any way you want to describe it,
05:33I'm with you.
05:34I thought it made no sense.
05:36So,
05:37I'm Messi obsessed,
05:38right?
05:38I mean,
05:39you know,
05:39how's that as a comment?
05:40Listening to you guys
05:42after the game,
05:44after the match,
05:45Alexi,
05:45I just,
05:46I couldn't get enough
05:47because you guys all played
05:49at such a high level.
05:51You have such experience
05:52listening to the word choice
05:54that you used,
05:55you guys used
05:56to describe it.
05:57And look,
05:58full disclosure
05:59and shame on me,
06:00I guess,
06:00I thought England
06:01was going to hold on.
06:02Ebb and flow of the game,
06:04I thought they were going to,
06:04so maybe I should think,
06:06okay,
06:07Messi's inevitable.
06:07How do you describe,
06:10I mean,
06:10that pass and that Enzo,
06:11that shot,
06:12the accuracy,
06:13you guys broke that down
06:14brilliantly yesterday.
06:15Describe what you saw
06:17from Messi.
06:18Yeah,
06:19so Messi,
06:20you know,
06:20the arc of his game
06:21was kind of like
06:23a lot of games
06:23where he was very quiet
06:25to begin with.
06:26I don't think
06:26the first 20 minutes
06:27he touched the ball,
06:28you know,
06:28a couple of times
06:29by design
06:30and strategically.
06:31We know Messi
06:32walks a lot of the game,
06:33but I'm going to put that
06:35in quotes,
06:35walks,
06:36because it's almost like
06:37a great white shark
06:39just moving through,
06:41moving through the water,
06:42waiting to strike,
06:44you know,
06:44and it looks innocuous,
06:46but it isn't,
06:46and you should be very,
06:47very careful
06:48and certainly don't poke it.
06:50but in this moment
06:52when they go down 1-0,
06:54a switch is flicked
06:56and again,
06:58England enabled them too
07:00because of their posture,
07:01but then Argentina
07:02had the ball
07:03and you'll see Messi
07:04pull out wide
07:05and just kind of post up
07:07in this area
07:09and in that moment,
07:10Argentina knows
07:11to get him the ball
07:12and by the way,
07:13everybody in the stadium,
07:14everybody watching
07:15is watching for him
07:16and waiting for him
07:17and this is where
07:18it gets back to,
07:19you know,
07:19whether it's myself
07:20or Zlatan
07:21or Thierry
07:21or anybody out there
07:22talking about this,
07:24you run out of things
07:25to say,
07:25but the same can be applied
07:27to Gretzky
07:28and to Jordan
07:29and, you know,
07:29to all the Tom Brady
07:31and stuff
07:31is that in this moment
07:33where you need him
07:34to show up,
07:35he not only does he show up,
07:36but he finds different ways
07:38to do it
07:39and even when you think,
07:41all right,
07:41it's just not going
07:41to be his day,
07:42there is something
07:43that he is able to do
07:44against some really,
07:46really good players
07:47and in many cases,
07:48world-class players.
07:49That's just what
07:49makes him great.
07:50So the first goal,
07:52he set up
07:53because he just kept
07:53on cutting,
07:54starting on the right
07:55and cutting into his left.
07:56The second goal,
07:57which ended up being
07:58the winning goal
07:59that he assisted on,
08:00he actually went
08:01to his right
08:02and he provided
08:03a pinpoint accurate cross
08:05with his right foot,
08:06his quote-unquote
08:06weaker foot
08:07with, I don't know
08:08how many,
08:09seven or eight
08:09defenders in there
08:10and yet he got it
08:11exactly where it
08:12needed to be.
08:13So it's just,
08:14it's an amazing thing
08:16to see at his age
08:17what he is.
08:19You know,
08:19he's playing in MLS
08:20and people sometimes
08:22knock him for that,
08:22but he's the greatest player
08:25certainly on the planet
08:26today, I think,
08:27and it's getting harder
08:28and harder to argue
08:30about his GOAT status
08:32when you throw up,
08:33you know,
08:33the Pele's and the Maradona's
08:34and anybody else
08:35and certainly if you were
08:35to win on Sunday,
08:36I mean,
08:37it's almost impossible
08:38to argue it.
08:39Yeah,
08:40I mean,
08:40we're talking about
08:41GOAT status
08:41and the other names
08:42you rattled off
08:43the tip of your tongue,
08:44I mean,
08:44that's, you know,
08:44how people who are
08:45watching the show,
08:46I mean,
08:46that's it,
08:47it's Brady
08:48and it's Jordan
08:49and it's Gretzky
08:50and it's Messi
08:51and it's inevitable.
08:53It's just amazing
08:54to watch.
08:55Now,
08:55I want to get into
08:56Spain with you
08:56because France
08:58was my pick originally
08:59to win the World Cup
08:59and I had France
09:01over Argentina.
09:02Were you surprised
09:04with the ebb and flow
09:05of that match
09:06with the way
09:06that Spain
09:07handled France?
09:08Yeah,
09:09I mean,
09:09this was,
09:10I think,
09:10the best game
09:11that Spain played
09:12this World Cup
09:13and not just because
09:14of the result
09:15but obviously the opponent
09:16but the way in which
09:17they just completely
09:18stifled this French team.
09:20And it's not just
09:21with possession.
09:22We talk so much
09:23about possession
09:23with Spain
09:24and rightfully so
09:25because they keep
09:26the ball better
09:26than anybody.
09:27But even out of possession
09:29with this French team,
09:30France could not find
09:31any passing lanes.
09:32They could obviously,
09:33they couldn't spring
09:34any of the,
09:35you know,
09:35Mbappes and the Nimbeles.
09:37Olisse's running around
09:38trying to figure stuff out.
09:39And unlike the game
09:42yesterday with England
09:43that was in it
09:45and it was,
09:45you know,
09:46they pissed it away
09:47and had taken out
09:48of the palm of their hand,
09:49France left that game
09:50saying,
09:51all right,
09:51we got beaten.
09:51We got beaten
09:52from the start to finish.
09:53It wasn't even a question.
09:54We were never in it.
09:55We didn't choke.
09:56It was just,
09:56we were not even
09:57on their level.
09:58And this French team
09:59who myself
10:00and many others
10:01had looked as
10:02the cream of the crop
10:03and it was theirs to lose.
10:05Well,
10:05they lost it against
10:06a really,
10:07really good
10:07Spain team.
10:09But it sets up
10:09this interesting dynamic
10:12in the final
10:13where you have
10:13this elite,
10:15polished,
10:17you know,
10:18almost white-collar
10:18type of Spain team
10:20against this,
10:21you know,
10:22knife-fighting,
10:25ruthless,
10:26raw,
10:27blue-collar-esque
10:28type of Argentina team.
10:30And these contrasting styles.
10:32And how is Argentina
10:34going to get the ball?
10:35And if Argentina
10:36goes back to that well again,
10:37which they've done
10:38all tournament
10:39and they've found water
10:40each and every time,
10:41what happens if in the final
10:42they go back
10:43and that well is empty?
10:44Who do you think
10:45should be favored
10:46in this one?
10:46I was kind of mesmerized
10:48by, you know,
10:49the early line
10:50with Spain
10:51as a pretty heavy favorite,
10:53all things considered,
10:53at minus 160.
10:54I was a little surprised
10:56by that.
10:56Who do you think
10:57should be favored?
10:58And what kind of final
11:00ebb and flow style-wise
11:03do you think
11:03we're going to see?
11:04Yeah, I mean,
11:05I think, again,
11:06Spain should be favored.
11:07I think just
11:08they're a more complete team.
11:12They're not as flashy,
11:14you know,
11:14despite the likes
11:15of Lamin-Yemal
11:16and everything,
11:16they're not as flashy
11:18as other teams
11:19and maybe that's
11:20what's made them great
11:21is they've kind of
11:21flown up,
11:22to the extent that they can,
11:23a little under the radar
11:24in that they haven't had,
11:26all the attention
11:27has not been on them,
11:28but they've just
11:29gotten the job done
11:30time and time again.
11:32And so they're very,
11:32very difficult
11:33to play on.
11:34I think Argentina
11:35is a much more
11:36emotional team
11:37and that's certainly
11:38served them well.
11:40But, you know,
11:41finals are strange.
11:43You know that.
11:43In sports,
11:44finals can do
11:45strange things.
11:46So, and again,
11:47last two semifinals
11:48were indoors.
11:49We are here in New York.
11:50It's going to be outdoors.
11:52I mean, obviously,
11:52it's going to be hot.
11:53We're going to be out there
11:54in New Jersey
11:55now with the wildfires
11:56and the smoke and stuff.
11:57Who knows what's going
11:58to happen over here?
11:59Maybe there's storms.
12:00So anything is possible
12:01in this World Cup
12:02that's thrown up every day.
12:03It seems something new
12:05on and off the field.
12:05I got to tell you,
12:06those pictures with Messi
12:07and young baby Amal,
12:08I mean, I had to make sure
12:09it wasn't AI, right?
12:11I mean, it's like,
12:12you know, I don't know,
12:13Michael Jordan
12:13holding a baby LeBron.
12:15I mean, it's kind of crazy
12:17when you look at that dynamic
12:18with the age separation.
12:20It's an amazing picture,
12:22an amazing photo shoot,
12:23if you will.
12:24But I will say this,
12:25and for those that
12:26have seen Argentina,
12:28not just in this World Cup,
12:30but over the years,
12:31there is something spiritual.
12:33There is something religious.
12:35You know, Messi is not
12:36just a soccer player.
12:37He is a deity.
12:38And that's the way
12:40that he is viewed.
12:41So this kind of baptismal scene
12:43that we see here
12:44shouldn't necessarily
12:45be surprising.
12:46He probably, you know,
12:48maybe has pictures
12:48with lots of kids
12:50as any family or parent
12:52would want to have
12:53with this great player
12:54for what he means,
12:55not just on the soccer field,
12:56but what he means in general.
12:58But it is an amazing picture.
12:59And to think that,
13:00you know, this age disparity,
13:01but that they were
13:03from an early age connected
13:05is nuts.
13:07But Messi's not going to care.
13:09No, no, no, no, no.
13:11If anything,
13:11he's going to teach
13:12the young pup a lesson.
13:13Let's be crystal clear
13:15about that.
13:16We'll talk about
13:16the United States
13:16for a second
13:17because I was a little surprised
13:20with Flo Balaquin
13:22saying the other day
13:23that he thought
13:23the whole saga
13:25with the red card
13:26being overturned
13:27affected his teammates.
13:29See, that bothered me.
13:30And Team USA,
13:31I thought,
13:32was flat as a pancake.
13:33And I thought Team USA
13:35on so many different levels
13:36got embarrassed
13:37after an otherwise
13:39unbelievable starts
13:41and frankly,
13:42a great tournament, right?
13:43First two games
13:44were awesome.
13:45You know,
13:45I liked the way
13:46that we approached
13:47the game that didn't count.
13:48You know,
13:49then the grind out win.
13:50And then the fact
13:51that we just laid
13:52an egg like that
13:53on every level,
13:54the goalie,
13:54everything.
13:55I don't like what he said
13:57because frankly,
13:58it's not like they had
13:59to play multiple games
14:01without him.
14:02You know,
14:02like it's,
14:03I found that to be nonsense.
14:05What was your reaction?
14:06Yeah.
14:07If, you know,
14:08all of the hoopla
14:10and the drama
14:11around Balogun
14:12is an excuse now
14:14that these players
14:15are using,
14:16it's weak.
14:16Yeah.
14:17I don't want to hear it.
14:18And if it is,
14:20then that probably
14:22says a whole lot more
14:23about the problem
14:24in this particular game.
14:26I will say this,
14:28Flo Balogun
14:28wasn't the problem
14:29in that game
14:30against Belgium.
14:30He actually
14:31was one of the few people
14:32that I thought
14:33did what he needed to do.
14:34He wasn't getting
14:35much service,
14:35but he was working
14:36and he was making
14:37the runs.
14:37I also say that
14:39I want people,
14:42whether it's your family,
14:44whether it's your team,
14:45whether it's your country,
14:46I want people
14:47to have my back
14:48and I will have the back
14:49in those types
14:50of situations.
14:51And so in this moment
14:52for the United States
14:53Soccer Federation
14:54and for American
14:54Soccer leadership
14:55and for American leadership
14:57to step up
14:57in this moment
14:58and to support
14:59and defend
15:00and have the back
15:01of somebody
15:02who we thought
15:03had received
15:04an injustice
15:05in that moment,
15:05that's a good thing.
15:07That's something
15:08that you want.
15:08If that created
15:11a problem for you,
15:12then you didn't deserve
15:13to win in the first place.
15:15I also will say
15:16that they picked
15:17the worst possible day
15:18to have their
15:19worst possible game
15:20and they risked
15:23not completely
15:28getting rid of
15:29all of the goodwill
15:30that they had,
15:31but it was awesome
15:33up until then
15:34and, you know,
15:35no more moral victories,
15:37okay,
15:38that was a bad,
15:40bad performance.
15:40It leads a bad taste
15:41in my mouth.
15:42I know it leaves
15:43a bad taste
15:43in a lot of people's mouth
15:44and it threatens
15:45to negate
15:47all the good,
15:48not all of it,
15:48but a lot of the good
15:49that was done
15:50because that's the final
15:51memory that we have.
15:52Now, you can take time
15:53and take a step back
15:54and look in totality.
15:55I think they did
15:55some wonderful,
15:56wonderful things,
15:57but ultimately,
15:58this was the game
15:59that Mauricio Pochettino
16:00was paid
16:01and hired to win
16:02and in that moment,
16:04this team
16:04under Mauricio Pochettino
16:06couldn't get it done.
16:07Listen,
16:08I think you nailed it.
16:09I want to talk about you
16:10and the Fox crew
16:12and I think you guys
16:13are phenomenal to finish.
16:14I love the smile right there
16:15and look,
16:16I'm a broadcaster.
16:18I'm a TV guy.
16:18I can figure things out.
16:20I mean,
16:20I honestly can't tell
16:22sometimes
16:23as you and Zlatan
16:24whether or not
16:24it's love,
16:26whether or not
16:26it's loathing,
16:27whether or not
16:27it's made for TV.
16:29I will say,
16:30Alexi,
16:30honestly,
16:31you guys are phenomenal.
16:32And you
16:33and Zlatan
16:34and Theory
16:34and Rebecca,
16:35just,
16:36it's been mesmerizing
16:37all World Cup.
16:38You were specifically
16:39amazing yesterday.
16:41I mean,
16:42the whole crew,
16:43I mean,
16:43Carly Lloyd's
16:44been fantastic.
16:45Landon's been fantastic.
16:46I learn.
16:47I'm mesmerized.
16:49Separate fact
16:50from fiction.
16:50Is it a bit?
16:51Is it a real dislike?
16:52The coverage
16:53has been incredible.
16:54No,
16:55I mean,
16:55we certainly set about
16:57to,
16:57you know,
16:58at least attempt
17:00to make,
17:01you know,
17:01all of the shoulder
17:02programming,
17:03all of the pregames,
17:04all of the halftimes
17:05and,
17:05you know,
17:05all of the studio shows
17:06that we were doing
17:07something that people
17:08were interested in.
17:09And that is
17:10getting the right balance
17:11of,
17:12you know,
17:13being interesting,
17:14being entertaining,
17:16and making sure
17:17that there is a,
17:18you know,
17:19an interesting
17:19and entertaining
17:20dynamic between
17:21the personalities.
17:22We are,
17:22we are very different
17:23people.
17:24We are very different
17:25broadcasters,
17:26but we all understand
17:27our,
17:27our assignment.
17:29I just want people to,
17:31they don't have to agree
17:32with me.
17:32They don't even have to
17:33necessarily even,
17:34even like me,
17:35but I want them to tune in
17:36and the numbers show
17:37that people are,
17:38are tuning in
17:39because,
17:39you know,
17:40we,
17:40I think that we have
17:42cultivated a relationship,
17:43but to your point,
17:44you know,
17:44at times there's some,
17:45there's some drama,
17:47at times there's some,
17:48you know,
17:48maybe even some
17:48necessary confusion
17:50as to what's going on.
17:51That's just a long way
17:51of saying that this is,
17:54this has worked.
17:55It has also been a work
17:56in progress as we have
17:58gone through the tournament.
17:59You've gotten to know us.
18:00We have gotten to know
18:01each other in front
18:02of the camera.
18:03And because we have
18:04this length of time,
18:06you know,
18:06there's almost like a,
18:08it's almost like a book.
18:09You have the start
18:09and you have the meat
18:10of the book
18:10and then you ultimately
18:11have the finish.
18:13Listen,
18:13I think it's been compelling
18:14and you guys have been
18:15amazing pregame,
18:17you know,
18:17halftime,
18:18but I thought your
18:19crowning moment
18:20was yesterday
18:20because the way
18:22you guys captured
18:23that game,
18:24what happened
18:24and informed
18:26and educated
18:26and had fun with it.
18:28I,
18:29I think it's brilliant TV.
18:31So congrats to you.
18:31Yeah,
18:32it's,
18:33it's how I felt
18:33and I,
18:34I said as much
18:34earlier in the show.
18:35No way I'm telling
18:36Zlatan that.
18:37Whatever you do,
18:38don't tell him
18:39because I need
18:39all the fireworks,
18:41Alexi,
18:41all of them.
18:42Appreciate the time
18:42as always,
18:43my friend.
18:44Sunday,
18:44Spain,
18:45Argentina.
18:46Coverage begins
18:46on Fox
18:47at 1 Eastern.
18:48Enjoy the match
18:49and keep up
18:50the great work.
18:50Thank you so much.
18:51I really appreciate it.
18:52You got it.
18:52You got it.
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