00:00As soon as Trump entered political office in early 2016, early 2016, you, NATO was immediately
00:10on the chopping block and you started having these major fights about whether or not the
00:17United States was committed, whether or not the United States would stand by its Article
00:215 commitments.
00:22But at the end of that argument, I think at the heart of it for Europe was really this
00:27question of what does Europe need to do in order to keep the United States engaged and
00:33what does Europe need to do to secure its own continental defense?
00:38And I think there were a lot of disagreements amongst Europeans over the last few years
00:45because many believed that a stronger European pillar in NATO, a more Europeanized NATO, would
00:52in fact result in less America, less commitment from the United States as the Europeans became
00:59more independent and capable themselves.
01:02Now, I've always been one to say that I think the opposite is true, that a more capable Europe
01:07would indeed create a scenario where the United States, in this case, the Trump administration,
01:13was more committed to European defense because it would feel as though the Europeans were not
01:19free riding.
01:19And I think that's what we've seen happen.
01:21I think that there was a lot of disagreement amongst Europeans on how to deal with Trump
01:26over the first few years, even when he entered office again.
01:30But I think there's broad agreements amongst Europeans now that the European pillar in NATO
01:34has to be strengthened and the future of the alliance really depends on that particular thing.
01:40And I think that it is bringing in a scenario where NATO is actually more unified than it is
01:46divided at this time.
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