00:00Shona, we heard from a number of European leaders, we heard from the NATO Secretary General under criticism, perhaps for
00:06being too nice, but saying that this is what the union, what the NATO should do, stay united and the
00:12President of the US.
00:13But overall, what are the final takes away or takeaways from this and what do you make of the summit
00:18ultimately is wrapping up? Was this an effective summit?
00:25Well, I think Sasha made the point earlier, which was very important about the licensing when it comes to patriot
00:30systems being given now to Ukraine.
00:32That is key for Ukraine, but it's also really important for the whole of Europe, which has been straining every
00:38sinew to pay for weapons to go to Ukraine since the Trump administration withdrew its support there.
00:43So that is very important. And the point, I guess, as well, is that actions speak louder than words, because,
00:48of course, Trump is shouting at NATO allies about Iran, about Greenland.
00:54But what he does is much more important. And when we saw him remove those capabilities from the NATO force
01:00model, F-16s, F-35s, even in times of war, that was quite dramatic.
01:04We've also seen him over the past few weeks and months tinkering when it comes to forces, US forces in
01:11Europe, 5,000 troops being removed from Germany, 4,000 from Poland.
01:15So those things are very inconsistent and they very much damage the alliance.
01:18But overall, I think that slight change in tone from Donald Trump and Zelensky is very much welcome.
01:23But at the same time, I did speak to many people after that. They said, look, beware, because that can
01:28change at any moment.
01:29Now it's the time for Europe to just step up.
01:31And when it comes to Iran, I think that's a really difficult issue for Europeans as well, that this war
01:35is going to restart a pace because they don't want to get involved.
01:39They're willing to reopen the Strait of Ormboz. But if the Iran war goes bad, they know they'll get it
01:45in the neck from Donald Trump, because a lot of people have been saying when Iran goes bad, the Europeans
01:49get it because he likes to distract them.
01:51But I caught up with Xavier Battelle, who's the Luxembourgish foreign minister and deputy prime minister, and I asked him
01:57about Europe's relationship with Trump.
02:00The fact is there is the relation is more fragile, to be honest, and it's unpredictable.
02:08My goal is not to say that we don't want to have any relations with the U.S. It is
02:13to be able to work in this more complicated situation than the one we knew from before, but not to
02:20give up and to see how we can find a common way.
02:24And, you know, for the Americans to have a relation with someone, it's to have a win-win-lose situation.
02:31It's not how we are going to build up a situation.
02:34But do you think that the European countries have maintained their own dignity in this regard?
02:39Because you see that there is a sort of a level of, you know, supineness when it comes to how
02:46they treat Donald Trump.
02:47We see with Mark Rutte, although he has a different sort of role, he's to keep NATO together.
02:50But there's not a lot of defending themselves.
02:56You know, I learned when I was in kindergarten and if someone was bullying me, sometimes not to answer what's
03:03the best answer.
03:04On Iran, this issue has obviously come back to the table, crashing overnight because the United States launched strikes against
03:12the Iranian regime.
03:14So what do you think Europe should do about it?
03:17Because we know Donald Trump is very angry and really take targeting member states for not helping Iran in the
03:22first place.
03:22But you have two things. You have one thing, a war against Iran, and you have one, the protection of
03:27Hormuz.
03:28Protection about Hormuz, I'm ready to support as much as we can,
03:31because we see that even if they said that they want to destroy this nuclear weapon from Iran, they found
03:39a new weapon.
03:40Hormuz is more efficient than any nuclear weapon.
03:43They don't target even one country. They hurt all of us.
03:47So the Iranian regime found out that, in fact, Hormuz is the biggest, big bird that they have to harm
03:54all of us.
03:54And so if we have a common, it's in common interest because we need, we will have not only the
03:59economic impact, but also humanitarian, all the fertilizer, all the foods.
04:03It will be a huge problem for a lot of countries.
04:06So I want to do this, but I'm not part of a war against Iran.
04:09You said to Marco Rubio, the U.S. Secretary of State, that you didn't believe that the Iran war passed
04:13the test of international law,
04:15that there was no imminent threat to the United States, nor was there a Security Council resolution.
04:19I'm hearing since 25 years that the nuclear weapon is ready in Iran in three months.
04:24I hear that from Israeli's side since ever.
04:27Since ever.
04:28I hear it now because we need to attack and launch a strike on them because they are ready with
04:31nuclear weapon.
04:32I hear that since 30 years now.
04:34The fact, that's the first thing.
04:36The second thing is when we speak afterwards, always about the respect of international maritime law.
04:41I just want to remind that to have a strike, the usual way is to ask a mandate or to
04:48have these international organizations
04:50where you inform the colleagues and you see to have islands and not Israel and America deciding to do this.
04:57And then to it's when you cannot just use international law when it sounds good into your own ears.
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