- 22 hours ago
Hugh Jackman, Viggo Mortensen and Richard E. Grant also joined in the Roundtable discussion.
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Short filmTranscript
00:00:03Welcome to Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter Actors.
00:00:07I'm Stephen Galloway and I'd like to introduce Hugh Jackman, Mahershala Ali,
00:00:12Timothee Chalamet, Richard E. Grant, Viggo Mortensen, and Chadwick Boseman.
00:00:19Thanks for joining us.
00:00:20Thank you for having me.
00:00:20I'd like to start with a simple question.
00:00:22Is this a good time or a bad time to be an actor?
00:00:28It's always a good time to be an actor.
00:00:30Yeah, that's a good point.
00:00:32Yeah, always.
00:00:33But it feels, surely, this is, in a way, the golden age in terms of the amount of work that
00:00:37is out there
00:00:38and quality work in different areas, film and TV.
00:00:42But I'm living in New York at the moment and I was just wrapped on Saturday night.
00:00:46I had one of the teams just saying there are 59 productions currently in New York.
00:00:51And that is a record and there must be a lot all over the place.
00:00:55So whether you're young or upcoming, it feels like there's a lot of quality stuff out there.
00:01:00When you decided to become an actor, were you scared that this is a risky profession?
00:01:05Maybe you shouldn't do it.
00:01:07My father thought that I was completely insane wanting to do this.
00:01:10Because when I was 12 years old in 1969 and Neil Armstrong just landed on the moon,
00:01:15everybody in my year wanted to be an astronaut.
00:01:17So saying that you wanted to be an actor was as ludicrous to people then as saying that you wanted
00:01:22to be an astronaut.
00:01:23Because there was no precedent where I grew up.
00:01:25And I think my father was genuinely worried that I'd spend my life in tights, make-up and be destitute.
00:01:31All of which has come true.
00:01:33Well, you grew up in Swaziland.
00:01:35Yeah.
00:01:36What was the acting scene then?
00:01:38What made you go from that to wanting to be an actor based in England?
00:01:42I think that you have no, you know, looking back, I think you have no real choice about these things.
00:01:47I don't know what you guys feel.
00:01:47But when I look back on, you know, Kodak pictures that I had,
00:01:51I had a shoebox theatre with lollipop sticks with little figures cut out on them from when I was seven
00:01:55years old.
00:01:56Then went to glove puppets and string puppets and amateur plays.
00:01:59And it was that thing where it was a, you know, it was a childhood passion.
00:02:02But whether that was going to translate into actually having a career, you know, people said to me,
00:02:07how can you be an actor because you look too weird?
00:02:09You've got a face like a tombstone.
00:02:11So I said, well, Donald Sutherland has become an actor and he's very tall and has a long face.
00:02:15So, you know, fuck it.
00:02:18Chadwick, how about you?
00:02:19Did you think the odds were against you growing up in South Carolina?
00:02:23It wasn't even a possibility.
00:02:25Like, you know, there was nobody.
00:02:26My brother actually was into the arts.
00:02:30He was, he did musical theatre.
00:02:32He danced.
00:02:33Because he did that, I think I saw it as a possibility.
00:02:36But other than him, nobody around me saw that as a viable career.
00:02:43Even watching him, it's not the same thing that I'm doing.
00:02:46I think you're right.
00:02:47It's meant for you to do.
00:02:49I think you should only do it if you love it because it's not all the glitz and glamour people
00:02:55think it is.
00:02:55It's really a blue-collar job.
00:02:57You work overtime.
00:02:58You sweat.
00:02:59You get hurt.
00:03:00You're an athlete.
00:03:02You're everything that is necessary.
00:03:05And you're pulling from things that most people don't usually deal with.
00:03:09You're dealing with intimate parts of your reality, political parts of your reality, social parts of your reality that most
00:03:15people don't have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.
00:03:18There's race in a way people don't have to deal with, gender in a way people don't have to deal
00:03:22with on a day-to-day basis.
00:03:23You do it because you love it.
00:03:24You don't do it because of the reasons people think, you know, I want to be famous.
00:03:30Nah.
00:03:31That's not what it is.
00:03:31It's interesting because that's never really articulated.
00:03:35The way we talk about acting, the way we talk about the business, we really don't talk about the workman
00:03:42-like qualities within it and how you really only actually act between action and cut like 10% of the
00:03:51time.
00:03:52The rest of it is prepping for it to the wardrobe, the costume elements of it, the building the psychology
00:03:59and getting ready for the piece itself.
00:04:01And working on yourself and trying to be ready.
00:04:03Actually getting to act is so, it's such a minuscule part of the experience that you have to love it
00:04:10that much.
00:04:10That's not to say it isn't great because it's holistically, it's an amazing experience, but there's a real tax within
00:04:18it that you have to be conscious of going within it and say, all right, I love this so much
00:04:24that all these little aspects that add up to make this the fuller experience, I'm okay with, you know.
00:04:33The time sacrifice your family had, you know.
00:04:36You don't see them.
00:04:36You don't see them.
00:04:38Like you really don't.
00:04:38You're just like passing ships for maybe 10 months in a year.
00:04:43And I think it's, in some ways, it's good for people to know that because celebrities and storytellers are really
00:04:50elevated.
00:04:51And so you ask, when I was growing up, I would never hear a kid say, what do you want
00:04:55to do when you grow up?
00:04:56And no one would say famous, per se.
00:04:58We could do a better job of really helping folks understand what it is and sort of, you know, demystify
00:05:04it a bit so that it's a little bit clearer as to, like, the work that goes.
00:05:08It goes into building these characters and telling these stories and how hard it is to actually do that well,
00:05:14you know, or to have something that people actually want to go see and walk out the theater and say,
00:05:20like, wow, that was a great experience.
00:05:21Timothy, what's most surprised you about?
00:05:23You're relatively new to this about the profession of acting.
00:05:28I'm not sure.
00:05:29That's a big question.
00:05:29I feel like a lot has surprised me.
00:05:32A lot's inspired me.
00:05:33I feel like I'm not a very cynical guy to begin with, but I've been made less cynical.
00:05:39Less?
00:05:39In a good way.
00:05:40Yeah, I feel even just hearing Mahershala speak right now, and we had rehearsed a play in the same space
00:05:46together four years ago in, like, not a high-budget environment at all.
00:05:51And it's inspiring, I feel now, I think of The Green Book, Hopefully Beautiful Boy resonates in a similar way.
00:05:59But the things that people want are, they want, like, accurate reflections.
00:06:03They want a mirror, basically.
00:06:05Authenticity.
00:06:05Yeah, and I think coming into it, as Hugh said, like, the demand for content, whether that's Netflix or Hulu
00:06:11or Apple's making stuff.
00:06:13I saw a thing that said AT&T original in the streets of the day.
00:06:16Apparently they're making things.
00:06:17So there's so much out there, especially as a young actor.
00:06:21I think your first dream is, like, how can I be economically self-sufficient?
00:06:24Like, that first time you could pay your check and you didn't do any other job, you're like, what?
00:06:29That's success right there.
00:06:30Like, people very often, like, you know, they'll be talking about how other people view the art.
00:06:39And they'll say stuff, you know, like, one day you're going to make it, one day, one day, you know,
00:06:44one day.
00:06:45And you're like, well, wait a minute, I paid my bills?
00:06:48Right.
00:06:49You know, I'm making a living.
00:06:51I love what I do.
00:06:51I love what I do.
00:06:52And I feel the same way about my work at that point in time as I do when my movie
00:07:00makes $100 million.
00:07:02Or a billion.
00:07:04Or a billion.
00:07:04In your case.
00:07:06A hundred million is a failure these days.
00:07:08Whatever it is.
00:07:12I think there's a certain fulfillment of faith that doing this has because you don't have a steady job.
00:07:24You know, no matter how well you're doing, you're still trying to find what is the next thing.
00:07:31And when this job is over, you're like, well, what's the next one?
00:07:34And if I know what it might be six months from now, like, what's going to keep me going?
00:07:39And so that same faith that you had to have when people said, you're going to be an actor, like,
00:07:44that you were talking about?
00:07:45Yeah.
00:07:46I think you use that.
00:07:47It builds on a day-to-day basis for every little part of what this is.
00:07:52And if you don't have that from the beginning, you don't necessarily have what it takes to do all the
00:07:58intricate moments of this.
00:08:01I love hearing you talk about the workman-like quality of the business, whether in film or theater, eight shows
00:08:07a week.
00:08:08You know, I had a teacher, Lyle Jones, at my drama school.
00:08:12And on day one, he said, all of you here know how to act.
00:08:16And on your day, all of you can be brilliant.
00:08:18And the next three years is about the other 90% of the time.
00:08:21Wow.
00:08:22I didn't quite take in what he was talking about, but it's like that.
00:08:26You can have a take.
00:08:27It's just awesome.
00:08:29Everyone's great.
00:08:30But you're going to be days where, A, something's happening in your private life, or it's just not gelling, or
00:08:34it's just six out of ten.
00:08:36It's okay.
00:08:36It's not great.
00:08:37It's the day in, the day out.
00:08:39It's not just about the Super Bowl.
00:08:41It's the regular season.
00:08:42It's the 163 baseball games.
00:08:44It's practice.
00:08:45Right.
00:08:45It's working out.
00:08:47It's like all of us.
00:08:48How much does self-doubt and perfectionism get in the way of your work?
00:08:52Oh!
00:08:53Okay.
00:08:56In all the years, because I'm the oldest person at this table, what my experience has been is that a
00:09:00common denominator that I've noticed amongst actors is this thing of having low self-esteem on one hand and large
00:09:08ego on the other.
00:09:09I feel that my confidence is so index-linked to whether I'm working or not or what I'm working on.
00:09:14And always people say, you know, what are you doing next?
00:09:17And if you don't have something next, there's a kind of, I still think, oh, you know, is what you've
00:09:21done before doesn't count?
00:09:23On the one hand, you're saying, you know, I want this job ahead of you guys.
00:09:27But at the same time, you think, well, I don't feel as worthy as those guys for the job.
00:09:31Well, I think generalizing.
00:09:33It's a high-wire act, and yes, there's all these things, you know, I suppose we're wanting to make sure
00:09:39people understand, yeah, we're actually doing something for what we're paid.
00:09:43Acting is the easiest and most enjoyable thing that I know as an occupation when it works.
00:09:53You don't have a good overview of it.
00:09:55You know, you can see the take-after.
00:09:56Actually, no, it wasn't so good.
00:09:57I thought I was doing really well.
00:09:59You know, but, and when it doesn't work, it can be depressing.
00:10:05It can be one of the most humiliating, because you're doing it in front of people.
00:10:09When I say it's a great time for acting, we draw from what's going on around us.
00:10:15Conflict, beauty, disaster, chaos.
00:10:19Chaos is always there.
00:10:20You know, we try to order, we dress, we brush our teeth, we stop at stop signs.
00:10:24But really, the world is completely crazy all the time, I think.
00:10:27Is the world chaotic, or do you mean your own inner life is chaotic?
00:10:31I think people are.
00:10:33For me, anyway, acting is a very intimate thing.
00:10:37You can't make a perfect movie any more than you can truly be another person.
00:10:42But the idea is to take on that person's point of view, so that you can come as close as
00:10:49you can to feeling what it's like to look at the world that way.
00:10:54And when you're doing that, you are exposing yourself.
00:10:58And when you're doing that with someone else, you know, like in the Green Book, that if we
00:11:03didn't do that for each other, it wouldn't work.
00:11:06Two guys in a car, road trip, it could be pretty dull, you know, no matter how sparkling the
00:11:11dialogue is, you know.
00:11:13In working with Mahershala and Green Book, we did that before we started.
00:11:17We did it all the time because we needed to.
00:11:20I think we both understood instinctively.
00:11:22What do you mean you did it before you started?
00:11:23In how we spoke to each other.
00:11:25We told each other things about ourselves and our lives.
00:11:29We opened up and said, well, I'm worried about this.
00:11:32I don't know if I can do this.
00:11:36Or how do we do this?
00:11:38Sort of express your vulnerability.
00:11:39Yes, you allow yourself to be vulnerable.
00:11:42And if someone else does that in return, then you're starting to get someone.
00:11:45Was there a moment when you saw each other differently?
00:11:48Well, we met about nine months before we started shooting.
00:11:51And we had that moment, funny enough, not knowing each other, where we were just sort
00:11:56of both, you know, having this introverted moment at a big luncheon with a bunch of amazing
00:12:02actors around.
00:12:03And we were sort of found ourselves tucked in a corner.
00:12:05We spoke for a while.
00:12:06But I think that was the initial conversation that I think peppered the moment for us to meet
00:12:13later and to begin working.
00:12:15It kind of set the tone for us sitting at a table and doing table time with a script
00:12:20and had connected in a way that felt deeper than how the environment felt.
00:12:26There's a lot of wonderful people in there.
00:12:28But you only get to connect with folks.
00:12:30I don't care how much you appreciate love, respect.
00:12:33It's like two minutes.
00:12:36I met Hugh a few weeks ago, and he couldn't have been more kind.
00:12:40He really connected with me for a moment.
00:12:42I walked away like, dang, I appreciate that.
00:12:44It was almost like Viggo and I, but we got to talk for 30 minutes.
00:12:48And so to have that and to connect and then step into a project where we're about to start
00:12:54shooting, we got to sit down and sort of share and communicate some of our concerns and fears
00:13:01and go through the script in a way that...
00:13:03Can you tell me one of your fears?
00:13:05With the project?
00:13:07Don Shirley's is so different from me, so physically.
00:13:12And so when you're dealing with someone who isn't famous, who does not have a presence
00:13:16in the culture in the way that Don Shirley was an accomplished man, accomplished pianist,
00:13:23but no one really knew who he was.
00:13:25No one knew what he looked like.
00:13:27And so I got to see some tape on him that he appeared in this documentary called Little
00:13:32Bohemia, and he's in there just in moments.
00:13:35His voice, the pitch, was quite a bit higher.
00:13:41It was like up here, you know?
00:13:42And I'm thinking about myself being 6'2".
00:13:47He's smaller, shorter, stockier.
00:13:49So it was this negotiation for me, and I was concerned about it, but it was a negotiation
00:13:54with...
00:13:55I couldn't go there, but I could drop it enough where it wasn't a distraction.
00:14:00And the physicality you find...
00:14:02I found like a happy medium for someone my height compared to him being probably, I'm
00:14:08guessing about 5'8", or something like that.
00:14:11Like you just...
00:14:11You kind of like tuning in, get your tuning fork right, so that it's not a distraction
00:14:16to the audience, so you just don't...
00:14:18So that they can actually enjoy the story and not be distracted by a choice that they
00:14:23don't have anything to root it in, you know?
00:14:25You were never able to meet him.
00:14:27No, he passed...
00:14:28Hugh, did you meet Gary Hart?
00:14:30Yeah, I did.
00:14:33So Gary is 82, he lives in Colorado, and was generous enough, I really mean that, to invite
00:14:39me up there to stay with him.
00:14:42Everybody who's met him, knows him, worked with him, said he's hard to get a grip on.
00:14:46He's mercurial, he's enigmatic, he's hard to define, incredibly smart.
00:14:50So I arrive at Denver Airport, and he was there curbside to pick me up.
00:14:54Wow.
00:14:55The trunk of the car was open, and he was just waiting there on his own.
00:14:58And I walked down, and I shook hands with him, and I mean, his campaign people, three
00:15:05of them had rung me and said, now, when you meet Gary, it was that kind of advice, to
00:15:08that level.
00:15:09This is what...
00:15:09So I was a little nervous, right, because I was like, why are they giving me such specific
00:15:14advice, you know?
00:15:15He shook my hand, and his other hand he placed on my cheek.
00:15:19Wow.
00:15:20And for about two or three seconds, he just looked me in the eye, and kind of to say,
00:15:25this is going to be okay.
00:15:26I know this is awkward.
00:15:27This is going to be okay.
00:15:28And I went back to his house.
00:15:29His wife had had hip surgery, so they were sleeping on the fold-out sofa downstairs.
00:15:33So I slept in his...
00:15:35Oh, wow.
00:15:35He showed me to his bedroom, so I'm sleeping in his bed.
00:15:37He cleared some space, and I was putting my jacket up.
00:15:41You know, I'm in his closet.
00:15:42He was incredibly open and warm.
00:15:45But I was nervous, obviously, about playing someone who was going to see the movie.
00:15:48Did you ask him anything that was difficult to ask?
00:15:54We did go down to some territory.
00:15:56I mean, for those who don't know about the frontrunner, it's really the three weeks of
00:16:00his campaign, which at the end of these three weeks, he left politics forever, right?
00:16:04So he went from being the guy who was going to be the next president, probably, to never
00:16:08being in politics again.
00:16:10It's the worst three weeks of his life.
00:16:13We're bringing up, 30 years later, a really, really difficult period.
00:16:17I'm glad we tell the story, because I think it had, prior to this movie or the book, been
00:16:22reduced to a joke, a meme, and this man's service and everything down to this, oh, monkey
00:16:28business, and didn't he ask him to follow him around?
00:16:29All this stuff.
00:16:30But even with that, I knew it was going to be super painful.
00:16:33And I did ask him questions, but my main reason to visit him was I wanted to be able to
00:16:39look him in the eye and let him know that I respected him and his story, that I took
00:16:44it seriously.
00:16:45I never asked him, I'm guessing, the questions you're asking.
00:16:48You're reading my mind.
00:16:49No, because it's also, it felt like, and I mean this, we're friends now, it felt like
00:16:54being with my father.
00:16:55And there are things, just don't ask.
00:16:58I also didn't need to ask.
00:17:00When you're with someone, you get a sense of who they are without saying, where were you
00:17:03on the night of, you know?
00:17:04Were you afraid about taking on that character?
00:17:08I was afraid because the story itself, I knew to many people, I'm not just saying to Gary,
00:17:15but to Donna Rice, to the campaign team, is a painful part of their lives.
00:17:19I do think it's an important story to tell, but there's no way getting around this experience
00:17:24is going to be painful.
00:17:26So are we on the right side of that line of telling this story honestly, paying homage
00:17:31to everybody in the story, not just one character?
00:17:34And also personally, I'm sure you guys feel the same thing, I had a bunch of, can I pull
00:17:39this off, kind of fear.
00:17:41Right.
00:17:41It's a very different type of character for me.
00:17:44I, by nature, am very open, open-hearted.
00:17:46If you ask me a question, you probably won't be able to shut me up, and Gary's a very private
00:17:51person.
00:17:52So there were many aspects of it, enigmatic quality, sort of a little more closed off that
00:17:58I was not 100% sure I could pull off.
00:18:01Thank God I had a great team.
00:18:02But yeah, so there was personal fears as well as just fears for the product itself.
00:18:06This right here is why people don't want to be in public life, because someone will dredge
00:18:11up something you said in a moment 15 years ago and act like it somehow encapsulates your
00:18:15life.
00:18:16What?
00:18:16Hey, look, I know-
00:18:17I'm going to answer one more of these.
00:18:18I'm not going to sit here anymore.
00:18:19We've covered all the stuff that matters.
00:18:21Did you ask Reagan about his marriage?
00:18:22All right.
00:18:22No, let's wrap this up.
00:18:23No, no.
00:18:23Listen, did you ask part of these questions?
00:18:25There have been rumors, particularly about-
00:18:26For God's sake, AJ, just ask whatever it is you came here to ask, or whatever your editor
00:18:31told you to ask me.
00:18:33This is beneath you.
00:18:37Before this round here began, we were talking about self-doubt and perfectionism.
00:18:41Right.
00:18:42And you were talking about how you get over that, and I'd like you to tell everybody else.
00:18:47So I was on the phone with a mate of mine, Richard Marks.
00:18:49I said, you know, something about being a perfectionist.
00:18:52And he goes, hang on, stop.
00:18:53I said, what?
00:18:54He goes, yeah, I'm going to pull you up on that.
00:18:55And I said, what do you mean?
00:18:56And he goes, yeah, I used to say the same thing.
00:18:59I had my first number one record.
00:19:00I was 19, traveling the world.
00:19:02And for the next 10 years, I used to say, if ever something was going on, I'd say, well,
00:19:06you know, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so please excuse me.
00:19:08Can we-
00:19:09And I'm sitting in a hotel room.
00:19:11This is Richard.
00:19:12And all of a sudden it dawned on me, like, what have I done that's perfect?
00:19:15Like, in 10 years, have I done anything that's perfect?
00:19:18It's impossible.
00:19:18And the answer's no.
00:19:19It's impossible.
00:19:20I mean, to want to is great.
00:19:22Of course.
00:19:22He said, well, clearly I'm not a perfectionist.
00:19:26I'm just insecure.
00:19:27And it's just cooler to say perfectionist, to say I'm a little insecure about what I'm
00:19:31doing.
00:19:32And as he said, that's not an excuse for shoddy work.
00:19:34You do everything.
00:19:35But as soon as you take away that, there's a perfection.
00:19:38The obligation, yeah.
00:19:39I mean, also, it's taking away the idea, which is what you feel when you're alone,
00:19:45thinking, now I've said yes, now I've got to figure out how to play this character.
00:19:49It's not all on you.
00:19:50Right.
00:19:51I mean, you've got to, like, put that aside and realize there's other actors in the
00:19:55scenes, generally, not always.
00:19:58But there are people trying to help you.
00:20:01If you just open your eyes on a set, generally, people that are making a movie want it to work.
00:20:07They want to be able to say, yeah, I worked on that movie, and it's pretty good.
00:20:10Or when you go to see a movie or go to see a play, you go in.
00:20:15You've paid your money.
00:20:16I want it to be good.
00:20:18And so it kind of takes the pressure off.
00:20:20And when you get to know someone a little bit and you care about how they're doing in
00:20:25the scene, then you're paying attention to them as a person, too.
00:20:29It's like you might, there's a morning, I remember one morning you came in and you hadn't
00:20:33slept.
00:20:33You know, you had a new baby, and the baby was there visiting.
00:20:38And you just, and instead of just going, oh, man, he's in a weird mood today.
00:20:42How are we going to get through this?
00:20:43How am I going to get through this?
00:20:45It's like, how is he going to get through this?
00:20:47And it's just like, what's happening?
00:20:49What's going on?
00:20:49And you said to me one time, too, and I said, no, I'm just not feeling well physically.
00:20:53And just that takes, okay, well, let's work on it.
00:20:58Have you had the experience of having a performance changed in the editing where it's not the
00:21:04performance you thought you'd given?
00:21:06For the better.
00:21:08Thank God.
00:21:09I think always this is the poet by show.
00:21:15You know, you write your poem, and you sort of let it go in the wind.
00:21:20It belongs to everybody else.
00:21:21Now, I say that.
00:21:24It doesn't mean that you don't tell the director, hey, I had a better take.
00:21:28Like, I remember take two or three was a little bit better than that, or I remember when you
00:21:32caught it from another angle, there was a moment, I think, in some ways, you have a
00:21:39journey that you have charted before you ever got to set, and you remember these experiences
00:21:45that they're talking about, and that's what makes it.
00:21:48It's like, you had an intimate moment with Mahershala, with Huw, and you're like, no,
00:21:55I remember that day.
00:21:56Like, I remember what was going on that day.
00:21:58I remember the connection that we had.
00:22:02So if I see a first cut, and I'm like, you didn't capture what happened, and I know you
00:22:10got the shot because you were close enough.
00:22:13I saved this emotional part for this moment.
00:22:16You've done all that.
00:22:17You've like, I didn't give it to you on the wide.
00:22:19I gave you a little bit on the medium.
00:22:21When you got close, I was like, oh, now I'm going to give it to you.
00:22:23You did all that stuff.
00:22:24So you know what the journey is.
00:22:27So if you don't see it, you have to say something, I think.
00:22:31Hopefully, you've chosen the right team of people around you.
00:22:35You've chosen the right script, the right director, the right producers, and they have good opinions
00:22:39about this, and they're going to make it work better.
00:22:42So you have to trust that.
00:22:47In most cases, I think, if you're sitting at this table, you've had those moments.
00:22:51Have you ever not had that moment where you've been let down?
00:22:54Of course.
00:22:55Of course.
00:22:56And how did you respond to it?
00:22:57You just have to go to the next thing.
00:22:59Once it's over, you've said your piece.
00:23:02They listened or they didn't.
00:23:04You have to use that for the next thing.
00:23:07You use those failures because that's what they are.
00:23:12And every time you meet them, every time you meet them, I told you.
00:23:18And that's true.
00:23:18That's true.
00:23:20You're like, you still owe me money.
00:23:23You go to the next thing and you say, well, I learned from that.
00:23:27And so now I'm going to do it this way.
00:23:41Wise actor told me at one point, he said, you have to protect your performance.
00:23:46Well, that was who said it.
00:23:47That's a pretty good thing.
00:23:48No, no.
00:23:48He wouldn't want that.
00:23:49But you have to protect your performance, meaning that when you come to set, you trust the people around you.
00:23:59But there are certain things that only you know.
00:24:03And if you don't protect those things, then you're going to be the one kicking yourself later.
00:24:10If the stunt coordinator is about to shoot the scene before y'all shoot it, and they don't know what
00:24:15your action is going to be,
00:24:16and now they're making this scene based upon the stunt as opposed to the acting, and now you have to
00:24:22adapt your performance to the stunt, they're going to miss something.
00:24:25This is an art form, but it's also there's certain skills that you learn to protect yourself to make sure
00:24:32that you get the most.
00:24:33And if you can do it yourself, then do the stunt, you know?
00:24:38Can I ask about chemistry?
00:24:39Of course, yeah.
00:24:40Because you were talking about that you play essentially a two-hander in yours, and in your film of last
00:24:45year, you're essentially a two-hander.
00:24:47And I'm in the same situation with Melissa McCarthy and Can You Ever Forgive Me, where you have to have
00:24:53an intense relationship with somebody that is telegraphed or short-circuited with very, very, in my case, little rehearsal time
00:25:00that we met on a Friday and started shooting on a Monday.
00:25:04You mean you and Melissa McCarthy?
00:25:05Yeah, so that you have to make yourself vulnerable or open to somebody else in a way that is almost
00:25:13like, I imagine, like speed dating, where you've got to go, I've got to be in love with this person,
00:25:17and I've got to expose myself physically and emotionally to them completely.
00:25:20So you willingly go in there, and it seems almost like magic in a bottle when it does work and
00:25:26you do have a connection with somebody.
00:25:27And I'm always riveted by how actors, if they don't have that connection, then have to deal with each other.
00:25:36And obviously you two did.
00:25:37You see a love story, and you're like, ah, it's so beautiful how they are together, and you know they
00:25:40hated each other.
00:25:41Yeah, they didn't speak.
00:25:43How do you get there as an actor?
00:25:45How do you get there?
00:25:46It happens, right?
00:25:47You go in with, you know, what you were saying, you go in with the best intentions.
00:25:51Like nobody wants to go in and make a dog of a movie.
00:25:53If you go in with the best intentions, I think it is almost like, again, speed dating, or you go
00:25:58in with the intention, I'm going to fall in love with this person, and you hope that it works out.
00:26:03You can't have beautiful moments or have something great happen unless you're willing to make big mistakes either.
00:26:11That's part of the vulnerability thing.
00:26:13It's like, like, take a chance, and especially if it's a, you know, like a relationship that's really tight, like
00:26:19that you guys have in your story, right?
00:26:21You have to be willing to kind of make an ass of yourself.
00:26:24Yeah.
00:26:25Right.
00:26:25Completely.
00:26:26Right.
00:26:26Who's taught you the most about acting?
00:26:28Oh, that's another big question.
00:26:30I'm not sure.
00:26:31I think, well, I went to a drama high school in New York, so there's a number of teachers there
00:26:35I could point to.
00:26:36Which one?
00:26:36Harry Shiffman would be the, you know, he's a teacher there who, you know, the importance of failure we're talking
00:26:42about, I feel like I was bad.
00:26:43So many times in front of him, you get used to it.
00:26:45Then you have those moments of truth or chaos that are great, but, you know, from the outside, as a
00:26:49fan, as a young person, as a young actor coming up, like, you know, The Dark Knight came out when
00:26:53I was 13.
00:26:54I talk, people, you know, I say that all the time, but it's true.
00:26:56I mean, Heath Ledger, Joaquin Phoenix, Leo, Denzel.
00:27:00I did a movie with Lily Rabe, his name, the actress.
00:27:04The playwright's daughter.
00:27:05Exactly.
00:27:05She's David Rabe's daughter.
00:27:06I feel like I learned so much.
00:27:08That's the coolest thing.
00:27:09What did you learn?
00:27:09It's a remarkable dedication to being present in the moment, and I don't want to sound cliched or anything, but
00:27:16you see, like, actors go in the control room, and you're like, well, that's not as interesting to me as
00:27:20an audience member.
00:27:21Yeah.
00:27:21If you see an actor outside the control room, like, I think of Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight or
00:27:24Joaquin Phoenix in The Master when he's opposite Phil Hoffman, or I can think of a number of other things
00:27:30where you're like, whoa, that guy doesn't know what he's doing right now.
00:27:32He's just living it, and that's exciting, because then it's that mirror thing again, where you're learning about humanity, or
00:27:39that character, or that version of an environment that they're portraying in the movie, but then, conversely, like, I'll see
00:27:45things on stage sometimes where it's not about realism or naturalism.
00:27:48Like, when you see Denzel Washington on stage, and you're like, he's otherworldly, and you're not, you're taking it all
00:27:55in.
00:27:55It's not necessarily one thing, so.
00:27:57Does all filmmaking have to be naturalistic?
00:28:00You've got to know what movie you're in.
00:28:02Yeah, exactly.
00:28:02I think you've got to know what story you're telling, because there's an aesthetic.
00:28:06Look, we've got, what, two categories?
00:28:07Drama, comedy.
00:28:09Mm-hmm.
00:28:10Under that, there's all these branches of an aesthetic and tone, and you have to leave space for the director's
00:28:16voice, the writer's voice, the actors.
00:28:18How did that work on Moonlight?
00:28:19I'm really curious about that, because that's a...
00:28:21For me, that's the closest you would get to doing documentary film.
00:28:26Mm-hmm.
00:28:26You want to feel like it's real, you know?
00:28:29Other projects, you don't want that degree of realism like that.
00:28:35You want to always be conscious of what film you're in.
00:28:38You always want to know what play you're in, what story you're telling.
00:28:40And I think, and through listening, I think your compass guides you to what world that is.
00:28:48Hugh, you've done very different films and genres.
00:28:51Mm-hmm.
00:28:52How do you achieve that?
00:28:53I mean, when you're doing a musical, how do you find the right tone?
00:28:56So the higher the form for me, things, you know, potentially like a superhero movie could be, although now I
00:29:04think they're more natural.
00:29:05So it could feel two-dimensional or arch or whatever, or a musical could also, I mean, I couldn't get
00:29:11an audition as an actor when I started, because I'd become famous, even though I was, it was a complete
00:29:16right turn that I got into musicals.
00:29:17I'd never sung before, but then I was quite successful in two musicals, and I couldn't get a film audition,
00:29:22because you're not an actor, you're a performer.
00:29:24I wanted to scream, like, you have no idea how hard it is to make song appear and feel as
00:29:32thought, and that's what it is.
00:29:33And when you're working on a Sondheim or a Rodgers and a Hammerstein, we were not allowed, on Oklahoma, for
00:29:39example, we were not allowed to sing for the first three weeks.
00:29:41So everything had to be as spoken dialogue, and you had to make it feel real, which is not easy
00:29:48when your first song repeats every line twice.
00:29:50There's a bright golden haze on the meadow.
00:29:52Yeah, there is a bright golden haze on the meadow.
00:29:55I love that.
00:29:55So in some ways for me, the higher the form or more conceptual, the more I'm going to probably lean
00:30:02on being true to allow an audience to not feel weirded out by the form that all of a sudden
00:30:07we're singing.
00:30:08You watch John Travolta in Grease, stranded at the drive-in.
00:30:12Now, if you're an actor, you read, okay, your girlfriend, you have an argument, she leaves, and you're walking through
00:30:18the drive-in.
00:30:19Stranded at the drive-in, looking like a fool.
00:30:21I'm like, how am I going to pull this off?
00:30:23It's effortless between the scene and the song.
00:30:26You believe every second because he commits completely to the reality of the scene.
00:30:32It feels naturalistic, even though it's not.
00:30:35Some good musical theater acting advice I got was it's acting on pitch.
00:30:39So just act, but on pitch.
00:30:40And I've got to say, being in New York when I was young, you were such an inspiration in that
00:30:44regard, especially when you did your one-man show on Broadway,
00:30:46because you were doing things as well that, like, to the superhero fan in me, like, you were doing both.
00:30:53It didn't feel like, I think there was maybe a prejudice, even when I went to high school, that musical
00:30:56theater isn't, like, cool or something.
00:30:58And you were doing it.
00:30:59So it was like, there it is.
00:31:02In real life, we have different dimensions of reality, different heightened levels of experience.
00:31:11We live in ritual at times, and that can be heightened.
00:31:15I feel like once you've done one thing, so in other words, once you've lived in a space or you've
00:31:21acted in a space that is, say, on stage, that's heightened,
00:31:25and then you get in front of the camera, there's a certain release that you don't have to go to
00:31:33that space.
00:31:34And vice versa, when you've been in that sort of intimate, natural, like, I'm just breathing space in front of
00:31:43the camera,
00:31:44and you get on stage, you feel the exhilaration.
00:31:47And being able to go from one to the other, like literally everybody has done, it's a relaxing feeling that
00:31:56you have going from one to the other.
00:31:59And you can mix this.
00:32:00It's a fusion at times because you can be small on stage and you can be big on film as
00:32:06long as you know when to do it.
00:32:09What was the toughest thing about doing Black Panther for you?
00:32:13Was it a particular scene?
00:32:14Was it finding that pitch?
00:32:15For me, it was the fact that as a person of African descent, this searching for what my real culture
00:32:25is and showing that on screen
00:32:28and, you know, just being able to give that to an audience to say that I know so much about
00:32:34my past, I know so much about my history.
00:32:36You know, as an African American, I've searched for that my entire life.
00:32:40But to be a person that didn't have to search for it, it was given to me.
00:32:45What do you mean you searched for that your whole life?
00:32:48Meaning, I think you...
00:32:49Only being able to go so far back.
00:32:51Yeah, being able to go so far back.
00:32:53Where are you from when people say, you know, El Salvador or you name a country.
00:32:57You know exactly where.
00:32:58You're saying Texas?
00:33:00Yeah.
00:33:00You know that's as far back as we can go, you know.
00:33:03You know, having to, having that as something that you're like, oh, not only do we, not only do I
00:33:12know, but I value it.
00:33:13There's a certain patriotism to something that has never been lost.
00:33:18It's ancient.
00:33:19And being able to hold on to that, it was something that throughout the movie, I was like, wow, the
00:33:26weight of that is something that I have to convey to the world.
00:33:30You are not like these other countries, Nakia.
00:33:34If the world found out what we truly are, what we possess, we could lose our way of life.
00:33:40Wakanda is strong enough to help others and protect ourselves at the same time.
00:33:46If you are not so stubborn, you would make a great queen.
00:33:49I would make a great queen because I am so stubborn.
00:33:52If that's what I wanted.
00:33:54Because you could do that movie and it's a parody of that idea and that is insulting.
00:34:03And so I think for me, it was constantly wanting to convey that this is real because it is.
00:34:11You know, it was constantly wanting to convey that to the audience and say, no, we're not making fun of
00:34:16this.
00:34:16This is not coming to America.
00:34:17I think we felt that watching the movie.
00:34:20You feel, yes, it's a fantasy on one level.
00:34:22Right.
00:34:23But it felt very real.
00:34:25I mean, you're watching it.
00:34:26I'm completely in this historical, mythological story.
00:34:30We didn't want to be.
00:34:32You could feel it.
00:34:33And it's not just a filmmaker who did a great job and it's beautifully shot and all that stuff.
00:34:39But it's the commitment that you and your castmates have to that search.
00:34:44You can feel that.
00:34:45It's what's between the words, you know.
00:34:47You know, for me, it was just one of those things where I was like, we want to make a
00:34:53superhero movie, but that's not the most important thing here.
00:34:56And people will love the superhero movie if this other thing, if they get this other thing from it.
00:35:02Did making that movie change your thinking in any way about life, about the world, about America?
00:35:06I think the result of it did is the result of it, the fact that, because we have to do
00:35:13this, we have to put everything we have into it.
00:35:16You know, I would say that even the way the studio responded, the fact that they put so much into
00:35:22it, I never thought I would see that.
00:35:23I never thought I would see a studio say, yeah, we're going to put the money behind this movie with
00:35:31all, well, basically, you know, mostly a black cast.
00:35:34Sometimes we have, we as African-Americans, we have the black version and it's never as good.
00:35:42It's never, they never put as much into it.
00:35:45And so it made me more idealistic about the world and about how things can go and that that could
00:35:53happen in, for, for, you know, in other places, other production companies, other studios, other projects.
00:35:58That's aspirational for not just myself, but for other people and not just in film, but in, you know, other
00:36:05arenas.
00:36:06You know, I was curious, you, you're doing film about the segregationist South, and I wondered if anything you learned
00:36:12along the way surprised you.
00:36:14The thing that I think came up most for me just in, in, um, going through the film was Don
00:36:24Shirley resonated for me, especially within the, the black canon of character.
00:36:29It surprised me in terms of, I wasn't aware of the green book first going into it, but once I
00:36:34did my homework on that and that aspect of it, the sundown time we've all seen, but Don Shirley, if
00:36:40you take a gentleman, um, go, you know, going back to, to the 1960s, who was educated and had this
00:36:49degree of affluence and has this regal presence and his capacity for language.
00:36:53I didn't feel like I had ever seen him before, so I wanted to step into his shoes and, and,
00:37:01and offer, offer that character, you know, to, to the conversation.
00:37:06Dear Dolores, D-E-A-R, this is an animal.
00:37:12As I'm writing this letter, I'm eating potato chips and I'm starting to get thirsty.
00:37:19And you know this is pathetic, right?
00:37:22Tell me what you're trying to say.
00:37:24I don't know.
00:37:26Yeah.
00:37:27I miss her.
00:37:28Didn't say that.
00:37:30But do it in a manner that no one else has ever done it before.
00:37:32Yes, you're dealing with the 1960s and the, the, the larger oppressive circumstances of our country.
00:37:41But within that car, within that, within that Cadillac driving through the South, he's in charge.
00:37:47Mm-hmm.
00:37:47He is, and he doesn't need to go on this journey.
00:37:52He chooses to go on this journey to sort of make his offering and make an impact on, on the
00:37:59perception and perspective of black people, which was very limited, not only in the South, but in the North as
00:38:05well.
00:38:05And, but for him to go down where the laws are different was, was a different thing.
00:38:11So there's a degree of empowerment in this character that I had never seen before.
00:38:16Has making these films made you more optimistic or pessimistic about racism?
00:38:20I don't think that a film can necessarily solve the problems.
00:38:26What, what you find is that every person makes a seed grow.
00:38:31You know, you, some person, one person comes in and what is it?
00:38:35Mm-hmm.
00:38:35You know, some light hits it, you know, some, another person tills the soil.
00:38:39So you, you know that you're making an impact on the world.
00:38:44You know that you're changing somebody's mind or making someone think a little bit differently.
00:38:47We learn from good stories.
00:38:48And, and that ultimately makes you feel better about the world.
00:38:52But at the same time, you know, evil is always rampant.
00:38:56You know, it's always, something's always happening.
00:38:59You know, we were talking about that earlier.
00:39:01Yeah.
00:39:01With, uh, what's happening on both sides of the park.
00:39:03What do you mean?
00:39:04What does that mean for you?
00:39:05Evil is always rampant.
00:39:06What does it mean that it's always rampant?
00:39:08We are.
00:39:09Well, we've got Brexit going on in England at the moment.
00:39:11Yeah.
00:39:12Trying to tear it through.
00:39:13Is that evil or is it just misguided?
00:39:15Uh, what would you say about Mr. Trump?
00:39:17Do you think that's misguided or evil?
00:39:18I'm glad that I'm the moderator of this round.
00:39:20Yeah.
00:39:23Ignorant.
00:39:24Yeah.
00:39:27Is there any real life character like him you would love to play or that you would refuse to play?
00:39:33Well.
00:39:34A real life character you would refuse to play.
00:39:36It's interesting.
00:39:37Several of you playing characters based on real life characters.
00:39:41You know.
00:39:42Um.
00:39:44When you look at the world, we say, I would love to play this man or woman.
00:39:48Or I would not play this man or woman.
00:39:52There's no character I wouldn't play.
00:39:53That doesn't mean they're going to let me do it.
00:39:56Yeah.
00:39:56You know, I mean, you know, people have this misconception, especially if someone's had a career that's gone on for
00:40:03a while or you're doing really well and you're in a huge hit movie.
00:40:06Well, now you can do whatever you want.
00:40:08I mean, as actors, we have the privilege and sometimes it's a mistake of saying no.
00:40:14No, but saying yes is only possible if there's an offer.
00:40:18Well, let me throw this one at you.
00:40:20In the current climate, would you play Othello?
00:40:22There's no character I wouldn't play.
00:40:24Literally.
00:40:24Would it be okay for you as a white actor to play a black character?
00:40:29Oh, would I play Othello?
00:40:31I think that would be insensitive.
00:40:33Okay.
00:40:34Richard?
00:40:35Insane.
00:40:36No.
00:40:37Okay.
00:40:37What about a transgender character?
00:40:39Would it be fair for you to play a transgender character?
00:40:41He's coming with the easy question.
00:40:43You know, there's an interview the other day where we were talking about this thing and it was actually about
00:40:49Pete Farrelly being white, being the director, being the writer.
00:40:54And the other writers being white.
00:40:56And someone was sort of, in a very gentle, very polite way, sort of putting the question, do you think
00:41:01it's okay that a white man directed this story, Green Book?
00:41:07And I said, well, do you think it would be okay if Mahershala fell madly in love with a short
00:41:13story about Scottish immigrants who become cowboys in the West and about their descendants?
00:41:19If he loved that story, is there anything wrong with him directing that or directing a story about a samurai
00:41:26movie in Japan?
00:41:28No.
00:41:28It's not one thing or the other.
00:41:31Your question about Othello, obviously that would be insensitive.
00:41:36And, I mean, why do you, you know, it's a difficult thing because I, even as a kid, I don't
00:41:43like being told no.
00:41:46It stimulates me.
00:41:48I didn't like it when I was a little kid and I realized that animals die and therefore we do.
00:41:52And I asked my mom, I just wanted to double check them, so am I going to die?
00:41:55And she's like, yeah.
00:41:56I didn't get scared, I got really annoyed.
00:41:58I was like, well, I'm going to get cracking.
00:41:59You know, and so that's my motive.
00:42:02And when someone says, no, you cannot, sometimes I speak before I think, and I'll say, well, I can too.
00:42:11Yes, I could try to, but why should I?
00:42:14What does that say beyond what it's going to obliterate?
00:42:17No matter how well I played Othello, the overriding concern and interest and criticism would be, why is he playing
00:42:24Othello?
00:42:25So why waste my energy?
00:42:27Aren't there other characters I could play?
00:42:29It's not a cop-out for me not to play Othello just because they told me I couldn't.
00:42:34That's maturing.
00:42:35That's growing up.
00:42:36As a little kid, I'd be, I'm playing Othello all day long.
00:42:38And kids do that.
00:42:40They don't care.
00:42:41They can do anything.
00:42:43And you have to preserve that as an actor.
00:42:45You have to keep the, I can do anything on a given day.
00:42:49But sometimes you have to be an adult, too.
00:42:51It's a matter of taste.
00:42:54Just, you know, what he just described, you know, is he going to put on blackface and play Othello?
00:43:01You know, we're artists in, not just in the matter of living out the life, but we're painting a picture.
00:43:14You even described it when you spoke of the voice.
00:43:17And I'm 6'2", 6'3".
00:43:20Do I want my voice to be this high?
00:43:23You know, is, will that voice resonate in this time period with an audience or will that be a distraction?
00:43:30So, in this portrait that I'm painting, if I put on blackface, very similar to that, as a matter of
00:43:38taste, does that take away from what I'm doing?
00:43:42And as much as you're living out, you can say, well, I can play anything, you know.
00:43:48The ego is there and then the insecurity.
00:43:50Well, can I do it?
00:43:53But taste also dictates, you know, that you know what frame you're in and how the audience is going to
00:44:01see it.
00:44:02And if you understand that, that's part of what being a good actor is, is understanding what is this movie
00:44:10I'm in and what is the time period it's being seen in.
00:44:13And you're picking your projects based upon those things, too.
00:44:16And so, therefore, that doesn't work right now.
00:44:19Timothy, is there anything in the current climate that made you choose to play a guy wrestling with drug addiction?
00:44:25Absolutely.
00:44:25Addiction is the biggest killer in the United States right now.
00:44:28It's over 50,000 people a year die from this.
00:44:30That's more than automobile crashes.
00:44:31That's more than gun violence.
00:44:32That's more than both of those combined.
00:44:34A lot of young people go through this, not necessarily with methamphetamine.
00:44:36That's what Nick Sheff went through.
00:44:38I know I'm not only speaking from my experience.
00:44:40I can imagine you guys, too, know people that have been seriously affected by addiction.
00:44:45And there's still, like, a moral failing around it.
00:44:48And weirdly, I feel like with people my age, there can be, maybe it's not unique just to my generation,
00:44:53but there can be, like, a glorification of it, too.
00:44:55And kind of like a martyrdom.
00:44:56Like, yeah, I'm destroying myself.
00:44:58It's my right.
00:44:58And that's really sad.
00:45:00I feel, even when we're talking here right now, I'm looking at, like, I'm looking at all these, I've looked
00:45:04up to everyone, basically, at this table.
00:45:06And where the we are getting a voice, and I feel a real responsibility, not in a fake way or
00:45:15in a facetious way, not to be, like, inspiring, but to point some way forward.
00:45:20And, beautiful boy, the irony of that movie is it's not, like, the most uplifting movie in the world.
00:45:25But at least there's a redemptive value in, okay, here's a story that maybe doesn't get honored all the time.
00:45:32And spoilers, but that Nick survives, you know, that he made it through, that there were four relapses in the
00:45:37movie.
00:45:37He had 13 in real life.
00:45:39Wow.
00:45:39And now he's eight years sober.
00:45:41And I guess even what I just said is, like, misinformation a little bit, too, because it's a day at
00:45:45a time.
00:45:45Like, you never beat it.
00:45:46That's one of the really interesting things in talking to people about the movie.
00:45:49Sometimes people are like, well, why was he addicted?
00:45:51And, like, is he going to be okay?
00:45:53And I kind of go, oh, you didn't really get it, because that's not.
00:45:57Yeah, yeah.
00:45:57The why is purposefully not addressed, because that's not as important as the fact that one is addicted.
00:46:04And secondly, you never really beat it.
00:46:06It's interesting.
00:46:06I guess you spent time with him and his father.
00:46:09Yes.
00:46:09The father wrote this very celebrated book.
00:46:11What surprised you about the two then?
00:46:13I was always wondering if the son's version is actually the same version as the father's.
00:46:17The father's, no.
00:46:18Well, Nick's book, Tweak, is a dream for an actor.
00:46:22I shouldn't maybe say it like that, because it's such a treacherous, terrible experience for that family.
00:46:26But Tweak is written in the present tense.
00:46:28It is moment to moment.
00:46:29He's not thinking ahead.
00:46:30He's not thinking what just happened.
00:46:32It's, I'm going to go do this.
00:46:33I'm going to go do this.
00:46:33I don't have drugs now.
00:46:34I need to get drugs here.
00:46:35And David's is this beautiful, like, 360 degree view of how an addiction can affect a parent, a family member,
00:46:41a loved one, a friend.
00:46:43In a way that Nick describes it when he read it, he didn't know how devastating what he was doing
00:46:47was to his family.
00:46:48Please.
00:46:57I've been doing some research.
00:46:58Been doing research?
00:46:59You've got to be kidding me, Dad.
00:47:01You think that you have this under control.
00:47:03No.
00:47:04And I understand how scared you are.
00:47:06I understand why I do things.
00:47:08It doesn't make me any different, all right?
00:47:09I'm attracted to craziness, and you're just embarrassed because I was, like, you know, I was, like, this amazing thing,
00:47:14like, your special creation or something, and you don't like who I am now.
00:47:18Yeah?
00:47:18Who are you, Nick?
00:47:19This is me, Dad.
00:47:20Here.
00:47:21This is who I am.
00:47:22I think now what surprises me, because we do Q&As with them, is just, like, their strength of character,
00:47:27you know, and the possibilities of love.
00:47:30And something Greta Gerwig said to me, because we're working on Little Women right now, the most important things in
00:47:34life are cliches, and it is so easy to be cynical or disillusioned, and it can be harder.
00:47:40But as Chadwick said, it's not like you're going to make a whole difference because, like, a little thing, each
00:47:44time it's a little bit of this.
00:47:45Like, you can impact a little bit, and to, again, not, like, fake-inspiring, but try and help or something.
00:47:52Essentially, you said, you know, these things have made you less cynical.
00:47:56Do the rest of you feel more cynical or more idealistic over the course of working in the industry?
00:48:01Oh, less.
00:48:02Less, less, less.
00:48:03Yeah, I don't think, I'm a bit like you, I don't think I was very cynical to start with, but,
00:48:07no, it's an unbelievable job we get.
00:48:11I went into acting because, honestly, I was more interested in trying to work out what's the meaning of life,
00:48:16what the hell am I doing here?
00:48:17I was 21.
00:48:18I wanted to understand things, and actually, if you're lucky enough to have your choice of projects,
00:48:24projects, every film is asking some question that we, everyone involved in the film doesn't know the answer to.
00:48:29You may not even get the answer while you're filming it.
00:48:32Sometimes you get the answer at a Q&A when you're with the people.
00:48:35Who knows, sometimes it happens 10 years later, and then the film resonates in a way it didn't when it
00:48:39opened.
00:48:40The world, storytelling is about simply trying to understand the world we live in,
00:48:44and putting it in some mythological story form so that we can open our hearts rather than just hear,
00:48:50rather than just reading the newspaper, we can open our hearts to understand what you've just been through.
00:48:56I know people in my life who have struggled with addiction, and I don't struggle with it,
00:49:01but I have no idea why or how and what can I do, and it's a gift to be in
00:49:06a film like that.
00:49:07For you, at your age, with your understanding and your heart, to open it up, to portray that,
00:49:12is a gift for every single person on the planet, because it's not just 50,000 people, it's the whole
00:49:17world.
00:49:18Do you feel you've come to any big answers from that initial question about when you were 21?
00:49:22What is the meaning of life? Have you actually come to any conclusions?
00:49:25Zero conclusions, but certainly curiosity.
00:49:28curiosity, that it's not about me, that actually paying attention and listening and being open to other people
00:49:38and finding what connects us, not what differentiates us, is that to me, is I suppose the closest I've come
00:49:46to understanding.
00:49:58One of the things I loved about Can You Forgive Me? is it's a love story, but with a gay
00:50:03woman and a gay man.
00:50:05How did you think about that kind of love, and did that change your thinking about anything?
00:50:10Just to pick up what you were saying before, of what you've learned about anything,
00:50:14there was something that John Lennon said just before he was murdered, where he said that life is what happens
00:50:19in between making your plans.
00:50:20And I think that that is so applies to, you know, you're talking about chaos, and that you try and
00:50:26find a way through all of this stuff.
00:50:27And by having compassion and understanding of why people do what they do, even the people that, you know, we've
00:50:36easily mocked and say,
00:50:37well, the Brexit people, the Trump people, all that.
00:50:39Once you understand how somebody does something, then compassion and forgiveness follow suit.
00:50:47And I think that those are the things that then love is part of that.
00:50:50You know, in a world where you think, well, the majority of people, oh, there's all this evil, there's all
00:50:53this stuff going on,
00:50:54the majority of us get along with each other for good or bad.
00:50:57And I think that's, you know, that's always inspiring.
00:51:00And certainly that film has made us look at the people that you think are marginalized
00:51:05and shouldn't have any focus put on them, and it does.
00:51:09And in the middle of that, you find that there's this bizarre platonic love story.
00:51:13How do you get to create that character?
00:51:16How do you work on it?
00:51:17Do you research?
00:51:18Do you meet other people like him?
00:51:20I don't know about you guys, but Melissa McCarthy obviously had the book, so she could follow that.
00:51:24And it's literally the voice of the author.
00:51:26So you get all the humor and warmth and acerbic, caustic nature.
00:51:31And your character barely exists in the book?
00:51:33Barely exists.
00:51:34I knew that he had a little cigarette holder, so I latched onto that.
00:51:37I had a great friend who's in Chariots of Fire in the best winning film in the last century.
00:51:42And he died of AIDS and he wore...
00:51:44Ian Charlson.
00:51:45Ian Charlson.
00:51:46He wore that head bandana because he lost all his hair.
00:51:49So I asked if I could do that.
00:51:50But even with all that knowledge that you have or the roadmap of the script, I still find that the
00:51:56day you actually start interacting with somebody, something happens that I have no idea where that comes from in me.
00:52:03And I see it in other people and I think, oh my God, I can see how brilliant you are.
00:52:07Your reaction to something is, that's the stuff that I have no idea what that is.
00:52:11And every job I start, I think, what the fuck?
00:52:14How do I start this again?
00:52:15Because I have no idea.
00:52:16Last time I saw you, thank you, we were both pleasantly pissed at some horrible book card.
00:52:22Am I right?
00:52:23It's slowly flooding back to me.
00:52:27You're friends with, um, Julia or something.
00:52:30Steinberg.
00:52:30Yeah.
00:52:31She's not an agent anymore.
00:52:33She died.
00:52:34She did?
00:52:35Jesus, that's young.
00:52:36Maybe she didn't die.
00:52:38Maybe she just moved back to the suburbs.
00:52:40I always confuse those two.
00:52:42That's right.
00:52:43She got married and had twins.
00:52:45Better you have died.
00:52:47Indeed.
00:52:48That impulse to want to be, I mean, from when you're a kid.
00:52:51Yeah.
00:52:52To, that impulse, I want to be you.
00:52:54Yeah.
00:52:54Or I want to be you, or you, or you, or you, or you, or you, or Captain Hook, or
00:52:58whatever,
00:52:59depending on what grabs your interest in that moment, that I really want to be you.
00:53:03That impulse, what you said, you're trying to understand the character you're playing.
00:53:08Because you don't, and ideally, you're not judging the character.
00:53:12Yeah.
00:53:13If you sit in judgment, then I think you are, you're already third-eyeing onto it.
00:53:16And so you can't really understand how someone does what they do.
00:53:20And that's how you help audiences understand, no matter how reprehensible the character or
00:53:25his actions, but you're helping people understand characters, but not judge them.
00:53:31If you're doing your job properly, I think, you know?
00:53:34I think it's what-
00:53:35But it's so interesting.
00:53:35You start with, the first things you mentioned were the physical external things, the cigarette
00:53:41holder, the bandana.
00:53:44And if you read about Olivier, it's the same thing.
00:53:47I wonder if that's the difference between a British tradition and an American tradition.
00:53:51When you created your character in Green Book, who's pretty different from you on the same,
00:53:56where do you start?
00:53:57I think this thing about the, is very antiquated, this idea that the British-American, I think
00:54:04it's antiquated, and I think it's not very useful.
00:54:06And I also don't think that people go, oh, you're a method actor.
00:54:10Why?
00:54:10Because I work hard and prepare my part.
00:54:12I mean, a method is whatever works.
00:54:14And every person has a different method.
00:54:17You're a lazy ass, and I'm not.
00:54:19No, but I think a method is whatever works for any given person.
00:54:22I think when you ask, like, what, you know, are you less cynical now, it's the people that
00:54:31you run across while doing this.
00:54:35It's the fact that you see that people are going through the same thing you're going through.
00:54:40They're searching for similar things.
00:54:41But when you actually meet the people, you're like, that's a cool dude.
00:54:49You know, he's cool.
00:54:51Like, he's, you know, I really vibe with him.
00:54:54And when you have those personal moments that are not connected to the acting, and then once
00:55:01you go into the work, and now you're sharing something, it's like, you know that it's happening
00:55:07across the way between you, nobody else understands it, the camera is capturing it, you've blocked
00:55:14the camera out, or you're using the camera, whatever you're doing, you know you've shared
00:55:18something, and that's what makes you less cynical.
00:55:22It's a fraternity amongst you actors and actresses.
00:55:27You know that this thing is making you, is shaping you.
00:55:32And so I feel like...
00:55:33And you never know where the help's coming from.
00:55:35You never know where it's going to come from, it can come from your dresser, the person
00:55:40who's dressing you, your wardrobe designer, anybody, you know, a person who's doing your
00:55:45hair, they may do something, you look, and you're like, oh, that's it.
00:55:49That's him.
00:55:49Or the conversations you have with your makeup artists, as you start your day, every day,
00:55:54six in the morning.
00:55:54They're the most important person you see.
00:55:56They set the tone for your day.
00:55:57Every day.
00:55:58What music do they play?
00:55:59Yes.
00:56:00You know, all of that stuff.
00:56:01You know, like, the film I'm shooting right now in New York, it's called 17 Bridges.
00:56:07For the first two fittings he brought in these coats, and you know, the director's very often
00:56:13talking about the silhouette of the character.
00:56:15I feel like the silhouette is this.
00:56:16I feel like, you know, I want him to look like that, you know, in the light or whatever.
00:56:20And you're like, okay, okay, I'm listening to you.
00:56:22And he was like, pick the coats you like.
00:56:25The wardrobe designer listened to the director.
00:56:28He watched me try on stuff.
00:56:29Third fitting game.
00:56:31We're making the final decisions.
00:56:33And I look at a coat that he brought every day.
00:56:37I said, let me try this on.
00:56:38I put it on, looked in the mirror.
00:56:40I was like, damn.
00:56:43That's it.
00:56:44I was like, that's it.
00:56:46And he knew the whole time.
00:56:47He knew the whole time.
00:56:49And everything about that coat.
00:56:52He's an artist.
00:56:54It's like, oh, that's the character.
00:56:56And that gives you something.
00:56:57So we work externally as well.
00:57:00And then it gives you something on the inside that changes the way you walk.
00:57:03It changes the way you talk.
00:57:04It changes everything about who that character is.
00:57:07You never know what it's going to be.
00:57:09Every role is different, too, right?
00:57:10I mean, you don't know what it's going to be.
00:57:13I mean, we all have certain habits that we develop, certain things that have proven to work.
00:57:18I mean, I kind of leave it open to who's in it and what the character is.
00:57:24The only thing that I always do is I ask myself the simple question, what happened before page one?
00:57:31And you could spend the rest of your life answering that question.
00:57:34Did you find, I don't know if he's still alive, did you find out those things?
00:57:37He passed away the same year, 2013.
00:57:40Within months of each other, Mahershala's character, Doc Shirley and Tony Lipton.
00:57:44Did you meet his family?
00:57:46Oh, yeah.
00:57:46That was invaluable to me.
00:57:48I have to say I had a lot more resources, like obvious resources at my disposal.
00:57:55Mahershala did.
00:57:56You know, he had to do, the way you put it, I had to do the math based on this
00:58:00documentary, based on the music.
00:58:04But whatever you did, it worked.
00:58:07I mean, it's beautiful.
00:58:08The guy who brought the story to Pete Farrelly, Nick Vallelonga, that's his son.
00:58:12Well, I was freaking out when I said yes.
00:58:14I always do a little bit, and if I didn't, I'd be like, I must be getting jaded.
00:58:18But in this case, it was a little extra just because I'm not Italian-American.
00:58:21There's some pretty good Italian-American actors out there, and I was like, what am I doing?
00:58:25What am I doing?
00:58:26Pete, you're nuts.
00:58:26You're doing a drama.
00:58:27That's already a big chance.
00:58:28But once I said yes, I said, okay, I got to talk to Nick Vallelonga immediately.
00:58:32He opened the doors very generously to everything he knew, all the materials he had about his father, recordings, which
00:58:38we both listened to.
00:58:40Oh, wow.
00:58:40Because he spoke about this trip, about them, and Nick had also spoken.
00:58:44And these tapes are like 20 years old, though, right?
00:58:46Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:47And Don Shirley, he taped him a little bit, too, because his father told him all this.
00:58:52He's a great storyteller.
00:58:54And he told him all this stuff that happened.
00:58:55He says, but if you're serious about doing this, Nick, you have to go talk to Doc Shirley,
00:59:00and you have to get him to corroborate, and if he wants to add, change, he objects to anything being
00:59:05told, so forth.
00:59:06And, you know, Doc Shirley was particular about certain things, and he told Nick, first of all,
00:59:11everything that Tony's saying here, yes, it happened, and then I'll tell you some other things.
00:59:15But I don't want you to tell this story until I'm dead.
00:59:19He's a private man.
00:59:20There's probably good reasons he didn't want to, you know, for his family, for his whatever.
00:59:24I think his closer artists, friends in New York, knew about his sexuality and other things that maybe his family
00:59:31did.
00:59:31I don't know.
00:59:32We don't really know, but he didn't want to.
00:59:34Well, and just knowing the time.
00:59:35Yes.
00:59:36Like, and you, we, it's easy for us to forget in 2018, you go back to the 50s and 60s,
00:59:42that people had had a lot to protect.
00:59:44You're coming out of the lavender scare or what have you.
00:59:46Like, there are real reasons why people needed to, to own their privacy.
00:59:51And you could throw all that away, and if someone still wants to keep something private, that's their business.
00:59:55And that's what, and that's what he wanted.
00:59:57Hey, I'm just saying it's salty.
00:59:59And salt's cheating.
01:00:00Any cook can make things salty.
01:00:02To make it taste good without the salt, with just the other flavors, that's the trick.
01:00:06I mean, you take the basic ingredients.
01:00:07We should really get going soon if we expect to get to Pittsburgh by dinner.
01:00:12Hey, when I was in the Army, I know a guy from Pittsburgh.
01:00:16Except he called it titsburg.
01:00:18But he said all the women there had huge tits.
01:00:23That's absurd.
01:00:24Why would women in Pittsburgh have larger breasts than, say, women in New York?
01:00:28Guess we'll find out, huh?
01:00:30How has the lack of privacy changed your lives?
01:00:33Because Timothy and Mahershala and Chadwick, you're new to this relatively,
01:00:38and overnight you've become pretty famous.
01:00:41Chad drank some water on that door.
01:00:47It's insane.
01:00:49It's insane.
01:00:50Is that good or bad?
01:00:53Ultimately, there are certain things that you cherish about your normal life that are different
01:01:00and you're not comfortable with, obviously.
01:01:03But at the end of the day, I've always been very close to my family.
01:01:08I've always really cherished my friends, and it just makes you do it more.
01:01:13What surprised you most about fame?
01:01:15What has surprised me the most is I was rehearsing this play, Prodigal Son,
01:01:19which was in the same space that Mahershala was rehearsing a play at Second Stage.
01:01:21This was four or five years ago.
01:01:23I did the play.
01:01:23It's about a young person bursting out of their, you know, out of their constraints.
01:01:29And whether, because the tickets were too pricey at the theater or something,
01:01:32basically no young people saw it, which is fine.
01:01:35I was happy to be working.
01:01:36But I had this fear.
01:01:38I was like, oh, am I getting into something that's like opera or ballet or something
01:01:41that's becoming an art form that is not as viable or something?
01:01:46And what's been, you know, very inspiring about my experience or something
01:01:50is I haven't really worked on a commercial movie yet besides Interstellar.
01:01:54And they're like, Call Me By Your Name was like an art house movie.
01:01:57And a lot of young people saw it.
01:02:00And that makes me really hopeful because it makes me feel like I'm starting a career
01:02:04in something that's viable and that as an art form is viable.
01:02:08And then lastly, I grew up in a building called Manhattan Plaza in New York.
01:02:12That's an actor's building.
01:02:14People are grateful to be able to get their income together for the year.
01:02:20And like I said before, economic self-sufficiency as an actor is kind of crazy.
01:02:24What are we doing?
01:02:25So anything beyond that, like, maybe I'll regret saying this, but like,
01:02:29at least for now, I'm like, this is fucking awesome.
01:02:33We'll come back in a few years.
01:02:35We sat down for a profile in Santa Barbara where you told your life story.
01:02:42And I wondered how you felt.
01:02:44Oh, my God, suddenly my life story is out there and widely read online.
01:02:48Was it difficult for you?
01:02:49Has it been?
01:02:50It was, I felt uncomfortable.
01:02:52But I didn't, not disrespected at all, at all.
01:02:55I felt absolutely respected.
01:02:56But I've been working professionally for 18 years, so 16-year overnight success.
01:03:03Like, and I've always had some sort of supporting principal position within a project,
01:03:09but had gone unnoticed, you know.
01:03:12And so it wasn't something I was accustomed to and sharing, you know,
01:03:16things that are private about your life, you know.
01:03:19But I get that's a bit of the tax that I go back to on this work.
01:03:24And on the flip side, I get to explore, like, the human condition and just get to grow so much
01:03:33from each and every one of these characters.
01:03:35I go to sleep inspired because I'm thinking about the things that I want to be a part of
01:03:40and the people that I want to work with.
01:03:42And then we all are this tribe of folks who look for those projects that, yes, they entertain
01:03:49because they have to, but they have something to say and you're drawn to them for a reason.
01:03:54For me, what's most important, my relationship to this work is honestly not about money.
01:03:59It is 100% about connecting to these stories and these projects and these characters and these lives.
01:04:08If the tax of it is that, like, there's aspects of your life that are no longer yours,
01:04:14then I accept and I embrace that.
01:04:16You just have to find those spaces that are still yours at the end of the day.
01:04:23Like, there's certain things that, you know, you set boundaries.
01:04:30You say, well, I'm not going to give that part away.
01:04:32And people will get upset at times.
01:04:35People will say, hey, I supported you.
01:04:38I've been in the rain for three hours waiting for you.
01:04:41But then I go, wait, you supported me when I was broke?
01:04:48You paid my rent, did you?
01:04:51I go, no.
01:04:52I gave, I already gave the art to you.
01:04:56I gave the art to you.
01:04:59You enjoyed the art.
01:05:01That's what I gave you.
01:05:03This autograph, you know, I'm willing to give it to you.
01:05:08But what I gave you before is what's real.
01:05:11And so, for me, I go, that's great.
01:05:17I love you.
01:05:19This is the part that I have to keep so that I can continue to do the work.
01:05:23And I think you have to know what that is for you.
01:05:26Is there any one character in a movie, real-life person, that you would like to go on a road
01:05:33trip with?
01:05:34I'll go with Melissa McCarthy.
01:05:36Would you really?
01:05:39Guns in the back of that car, if that's all right.
01:05:42Socrates.
01:05:42Can we bring people who might have died 2,000 or 3,000 years ago?
01:05:47I think there's a good argument that he could be the wisest person that's ever lived.
01:05:51And I would, I'd love a few answers.
01:05:53It'd be great.
01:05:53So what about you?
01:05:54Honestly, I would get teary-eyed just thinking about Barack Obama.
01:05:58I would love to be comfortable enough to spend time with him and get to know him and speak with
01:06:05him.
01:06:05But, like, that would be an amazing thing.
01:06:08Okay, I swear to God I'm not piggybacking that that was the answer in my head.
01:06:11But truly also to pick his brain about how he feels about everything right now.
01:06:17You can only imagine.
01:06:19How about you, Figo?
01:06:20Zora Neale Hurston, writer.
01:06:23And she's someone that was kind of erased, you know, as a writer.
01:06:28And, you know, the vanguard of African-American letters, man, at the time, they kind of, I don't know, they
01:06:35felt threatened, I think.
01:06:36And they did as much as anybody else to suppress her, really.
01:06:41You know, the reason I was talking about her recently was because in connection with Doc Shirley,
01:06:45what I think this movie can do, like Alice Walker did for her, a lot of people will discover his
01:06:49music.
01:06:49He's an amazing talent.
01:06:51And then the jazz aficionados who sort of relegated him a little, might reappraise him.
01:06:58I mean, I think that this movie does that.
01:07:00I've had my road trip with Dr. Don Shirley.
01:07:04And I'm still, I'm enjoying it.
01:07:07Looking at you right now, I'm still on it.
01:07:09I'm still on it.
01:07:10Yes, we still are.
01:07:10Gentlemen, what about you?
01:07:11And so I'd like to do one with her.
01:07:14I have a lot of people.
01:07:16But I think who resonates the most is, you know, I want to do the heavyweight champion of the world
01:07:22tour with Muhammad Ali.
01:07:24Oh, yeah.
01:07:25Good choice.
01:07:26He's like, we should get a van.
01:07:29I had a little something, I don't know if this is usable, but from the moment I finished the answer
01:07:35to that first question,
01:07:36I slightly regretted something that I omitted, which is it's not just a great time for actors because of the
01:07:44amount of good quality work,
01:07:45but I really think for women, for actors of color, it's a whole new world.
01:07:52From someone who's been in the business 20, 25 years, I can tell you from where I started and the
01:07:56conversations were being happening,
01:07:57it's like it's all opened up, and I think it's amazing, and the storytelling's only going to get richer, more
01:08:04surprising, more vibrant,
01:08:06and if our goal is to understand the world and the humans in it, can we please see stories about
01:08:12everybody?
01:08:13You know, and I think that's why it's exciting as well.
01:08:17Thank you all for taking part in Clotho.
01:08:19Thank you, man.
01:08:20I knew you were so great.
01:08:21Thank you all for taking part in Clotho.
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