00:00Britney Spanos joins us now. She's a journalist who covers pop music, and Britney also teaches at NYU, where one
00:03of the courses she's offered is on OneTaylorSwift.
00:07Britney, good to have you with us.
00:09I think when I first heard about this, I thought, no way this is happening.
00:13She has an untold amount of money.
00:16She has a very interesting relationship with privacy, which we can talk about in another way.
00:19This was a spectacle.
00:21I thought this was a room.
00:22Confined to this arena in New York City.
00:23What did you make of it?
00:24Yeah, I thought it was a decoy.
00:25I thought that she was going to do it.
00:27I mean, she has so many properties, as a multi-billionaire does, and so I was like, maybe it'll be
00:31in Kansas City, Rhode Island, in Nashville, Pennsylvania.
00:34I was like, there's so many options, but this was a big surprise, but I also think this is a
00:39very new type of relationship for Taylor, where it is very public-facing.
00:42They go to events together.
00:43They do the very celebrity couple things, which she really hasn't ever done with any of her past partners.
00:49It's always kind of been a little bit behind the scenes, so it makes sense that this is a couple
00:54that celebrates.
00:55She's sitting with her husband at the Cavaliers game, now husband at the Cavaliers game, until the Heim sisters, I
00:59guess, re-upped him.
01:00Or one-upped him at the finals.
01:03All right.
01:03As we're talking about America, we're talking about the Declaration of Independence.
01:07We don't have a monarchy here.
01:08Yeah.
01:09We don't have royal weddings here.
01:10Is that why we care about this?
01:12And I'm using we loosely, but why do we seem to care so much about this?
01:15I mean, what we've seen with Taylor Swift as a celebrity in the last few years is specifically with Arrow's
01:20tour, which is around the time that her and Travis met.
01:23Travis being a man with multiple Super Bowl rings, like this is...
01:27And Travis, we're on a first-name basis.
01:28Travis.
01:28Yeah, Travis.
01:32They have the sort of the pillars of celebrity culture in America, right?
01:37It's a football star, pop star, two very well-known figures in their fields.
01:43And, you know, it's sort of the ultimate type of coming together of an it couple.
01:48You know, they are very celebrated, very talented, and also just well-known globally.
01:54Yeah, two different but very big fan groups kind of merging.
01:57And so it's really incredible.
01:59You know, it's been so interesting to see how that's developed in terms of Taylor kind of reaching this pinnacle
02:04in her own career.
02:05Travis obviously won a Super Bowl within the first year that they were dating.
02:09It's kind of the very prom king and queen vibe to it.
02:13So there is that royal couple element.
02:15But, yeah, I think that's why everyone was interested.
02:18It's kind of hard for any of them to go anywhere anyway.
02:20So I guess everyone's going to crowd around MSG.
02:23So rents out a large hunk of the city.
02:25Yeah, exactly.
02:26Let me ask you about the way in which she kind of cultivates her personality, her perception of her personality
02:30and image, and also her relationship to privacy.
02:33I mentioned this just a moment ago.
02:34So we've had these moments where she's found as a very private person, and then maybe a few months later
02:39we have the release of a self-funded documentary or a documentary series on the Eros tour.
02:44How does she regard her privacy, her image, and how does that compare to kind of other pop stars of
02:49her renown?
02:50You know, I think Taylor tries to find the intersection of it.
02:53She really tries to find the fact that she is a singer-songwriter in the canon of many singer-songwriters
02:59before her.
02:59Joni Mitchell.
03:00Joni Mitchell, I mean, you know, she had Paul McCartney there and Stevie Nicks, and they are both songwriters who
03:05do this, which is being able to pour your personal life into your music.
03:08And so she very much reveals who she is through her songs, but then kind of lives the life outside
03:14of it.
03:14And so we kind of learn about it with the next album of what she just went through, what she
03:19just experienced.
03:19So, you know, I think she doesn't shy away from the fame of it all.
03:23She doesn't shy away from the fact that she's singing about famous people she's dated or is friends with or
03:28has feuds with or, you know, any sort of those experiences.
03:32But she kind of finds that sort of semi-happy medium.
03:36Obviously, again, she is a very different kind of celebrity in the sense that she's super famous.
03:40And so, you know, she knows that if she goes to a studio on 8th Street in Manhattan, there is
03:46going to be hundreds of people crowding on 8th Street to go see her.
03:49Before we let you go, I want to ask you about fandom in general.
03:52It seems like a very American phenomenon.
03:54And I don't know if you feel this, but I feel like it has this extreme fandom and, like, nothing
03:59Taylor Swift ever can do will ever be bad for some of her extreme fans.
04:02Do you feel like that's permeated other parts of our society, like it's sports fandom and even the way people
04:08look at politicians or issues, they're so immovable now because there's, like, this tendency to just commit and stay with
04:15it, ride or die.
04:16And that can maybe not always be a great thing.
04:18Yeah, I mean, it does feel like such a product of the Internet age where I feel like through social
04:22media, the community of fandom is now very much commodified and very much exists in a network way versus fandom
04:29before used to be just going to the concerts and meeting other people.
04:32Or going to a game and meeting other fans.
04:35So, you know, I think it's that kind of experience of that anonymity of the Internet with the sort of,
04:40you know, network that you're building through that that makes the fandom even more intense, even more kind of parasocial,
04:46really passionate in a way that sometimes moves into kind of a weird, negative way.
04:51So I think a lot of that is just the constant experience of it, the 24-7 experience of being
04:58a fan these days.
04:58And the fact that you can see her go everywhere, right?
05:00I mean, you have to buy a magazine to see, like, a picture of somebody out on the street.
05:04Yeah, like, you know where she went to dinner every night.
05:06You know what she's wearing every day.
05:08You know who she's hanging out with.
05:09You know who her friends are.
05:10Like, we are experiencing it in such a high volume in a way that we've never had experience for many
05:16decades.
05:17Very quick, before we let you go, about 20 seconds here, you teach a course on Taylor Swift.
05:20Is there anyone else in this pantheon you could teach a course like this on at this moment?
05:24Oh, gosh.
05:24I mean, there's so many.
05:26I mean, I feel like there's so many great pop stars who are super big right now.
05:29I mean, there are other classes on Beyonce and Bad Bunny, and so I feel like those are obviously the
05:34most obvious answers.
05:35But, yeah, I think there's so many great pop stars who have been able to make long careers who are
05:39very much worth studying.
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