- 7 hours ago
The actor called playing Caesar in the 'Apes' trilogy the role of a lifetime.
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00:03Hi, I'm Mariah Gullow from The Hollywood Reporter and I'm in studio with Andy Serkis today.
00:08Hi Andy.
00:08Hey, how are you?
00:09How are you?
00:10Very good, thank you.
00:11Alright, we're talking all things Planet of the Apes today.
00:14Excellent.
00:14Next year is the 50th anniversary of Planet of the Apes, the entire series.
00:19I mean, what do you think of that?
00:21I mean, look, it's just a testament that there's still an appetite for these movies
00:25and it just goes to show how powerful they've been, how when they were written originally they were futuristic,
00:32but now with this reboot it feels like it could have happened.
00:37I think it's such a powerful metaphor and such a powerful allegory
00:42and to see the world through the eyes of apes and see something about the human condition,
00:47it's just not gone away, the passion for it hasn't gone away, which is amazing.
00:51Yes, did you ever meet any of the original cast?
00:55No, no, I would have loved to have done, I mean, Roddy McDowell.
00:58I mean, I remember I grew up with these and, you know, it was one of the very first films
01:02I ever saw
01:03was Planet of the Apes in a cinema in London, you know.
01:07It was a rerun and then I watched the TV series and was a huge Roddy McDowell fan and, yeah.
01:13But I mean, I've obviously watched lots of documentaries about the original series
01:17and was really struck by Kim Hunter actually.
01:20Yeah.
01:21And her talking about what it was like to wear John Chambers' makeup.
01:25And how difficult it was to sort of have to keep the face alive with facial expressions inside just to
01:33kind of keep that, you know,
01:34the sense of all that prosthetic moving.
01:36Yeah.
01:36So, which is a far cry from, of course, what we have to do now with the technology that we
01:41have.
01:41Yeah, absolutely.
01:43Is it, do you find yourself, do you count yourself lucky as being able to kind of affect your craft
01:50without makeup and without prosthetics?
01:53Absolutely, because it actually allows you to play much more internally.
01:58It allows you to, you know, just, you know, become it without being encumbered by any suit or anything, you
02:06know,
02:06any fursuit or, like I say, you know, being covered in prosthetics, having to fight through that.
02:11So, it really does allow you to play the subtlety of the character.
02:15And, of course, the incredible thing about the facial capture technology is that it really honors every single choice that
02:21you make as an actor
02:22in a very subtle way.
02:23So, you're not having to overcompensate.
02:25It's far, it's the other way around, in fact.
02:27Let's talk about Caesar.
02:29Is this a role of a lifetime?
02:32Absolutely.
02:33I mean, it's incredibly rare for an actor to get the opportunity to play a character from birth through to
02:39death over the course of three movies.
02:41And not only that, but a character that is, you know, is a truly evolving character.
02:48You know, the going from a pure chimpanzee all the way through becoming a revolutionary leader, discovering himself to be
02:54an ape,
02:55thinking that he was, you know, almost human when he was born, but then becoming this leader of a new
03:01society.
03:02And then, of course, going into the final episode where he's a leader in time of war, who then completely
03:09changes his ability to be empathetic towards human beings is taken away.
03:17When the events happen at the beginning of the movie and Caesar's family are wiped out.
03:22And so, the emotional journey and then the evolutionary journey, you know, how he grows from being, as I say,
03:30like, chimp-like to almost human emotionally, linguistically.
03:34I mean, it's just been the most incredible challenge.
03:37I am actually going through a process of grieving the end of it, really, because, yeah, it was a great
03:42time, a really great time.
03:45You said before that you kind of channeled Nelson Mandela for the character of Caesar.
03:51Who else were you kind of looking towards?
03:53Well, at different stages of his journey, I was looking, and in the different movies, I was looking for different
03:59sources of inspiration.
04:01So, in the first film, I actually based him on a real chimpanzee called Oliver, who was known as the
04:06human-zee.
04:07He had very human facial expressions, and he stood bipedally, and walked bipedally.
04:13He never walked on all fours.
04:17But he was considered to be the progeny of man and ape, and had a lot of DNA experiments performed
04:22on him in the 1970s.
04:23So, that was the source of inspiration for the first film, this kind of chimpanzee that was an outsider in
04:29some way.
04:30And then in the second film, as you say, I wanted to find that, as Caesar was becoming this leader
04:34of a new society,
04:35I wanted to think, well, who is sort of an example of a really intelligent, powerful, but sort of egalitarian
04:45leader?
04:46And so, Nelson Mandela was very much an inspiration.
04:49And then in the third movie, actually, it's such a personal story in the third film that I really was
04:55looking more into my own reactions to, if the things that Caesar were going through were me, then, you know,
05:03what would I feel?
05:04Right. No Clint Eastwood in there.
05:07A little bit of Clint Eastwood. A little bit of Clint Eastwood, too. Yeah, absolutely.
05:11No, I mean, and actually, Matt Reeves, the director, I mean, he was, he watched a lot of those films,
05:17and a lot of biblical films, and a lot of epic western mythological, you know, sort of, you know, mythic
05:24films.
05:27So, definitely Clint Eastwood, yeah, I mean, the Outlaw Josie Wales was, you know, is a prime example of Clint
05:34Eastwood at his best, you know, being wry, and there is a little bit of his sense of humor there,
05:38too.
05:39Yeah, and there's maybe a bit of Kurt Douglas and a bit of Charlton Heston.
05:43Well, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean, those big, epic, you know, 60s, 70s films, Matt was very drawn to, and
05:50when he and Mark Bombac were writing the script, they'd watched lots and lots of those movies.
05:55Yeah.
05:55Because he wanted it to have this, yeah, this mythic sense of, you know, this destiny, and looking back across
06:04the trilogy, it was, this was the seminal kind of ape character that would be remembered in a thousand years'
06:11time as the leader, as a sort of spiritual leader who led the apes to freedom.
06:16So, that was, yeah, so there was definitely a little bit of the Moses story in there, too.
06:23Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting to, uh, kind of, uh, know where, you know, where this world is going.
06:31Sure.
06:31Um, do you think a lot about, uh, kind of, like, real world war situations, because you've kind of been
06:38embroiled in this, um, fictional conflict, um, but it, you know, I mean, there's always so, so much drawn from
06:46reality.
06:47Does it make you think a lot about, kind of, our, our world, our society?
06:50Oh, a hundred percent.
06:52I mean, that's what's so great about these movies, is that they are, you know, without being overtly political and
06:58overtly culturally specific about a war or a situation, it, they, by design, and actually always were, and it was
07:07in their DNA that they would always reflect society.
07:10So, of course, in the fifties, going back to the original, um, sixties, going back to the original films, um,
07:15you know, they were very much talking about civil rights, um, and, and inequality, and, and, and then now, you
07:24know, these films have become about, this trilogy really is about man's hubris and arrogance, uh, and, uh, towards his,
07:32arrogance in thinking towards how he treats the planet and, and, um, how he plays with, and thinks he's above
07:39the planet in a way.
07:40And not connected.
07:41And also, um, the treatment of other and the way of, as we've become more sort of alienated, um, it,
07:49that, that, that is what this, this trilogy really is about.
07:52It's about empathy and the lot, and the loss of empathy for each other, for, for other people, for people
07:58who are of a different belief system from us, or, you know, so that we end up almost pointing the
08:04finger and saying, you're different to me, rather than we are connected.
08:06And that's, that's really what, that's at the heart of this trilogy, I think.
08:11Yes.
08:11Um, you know, you've worked a lot, a lot with, and studied a lot of animals, uh, especially chimpanzees, apes,
08:18gorillas.
08:18Do you feel the need to protect and conserve them now that you've spent some time with them?
08:22Absolutely.
08:23I mean, I'm, uh, and I've been involved with various charities over the years, uh, particularly Diane Fossey Guerilla Fund
08:30International, who I originally studied, uh, with when I was making King Kong.
08:34Um, so I'm a very, uh, very, uh, strong advocate for, for their work.
08:40And, uh, and also, you know, lots of other organizations that, that are, you know, to do more with chimpanzees,
08:46Jane Goodall's Institute, for instance.
08:49Um, so, yeah, I mean, we are reaching a tipping point.
08:53We're really reaching a tipping point where, if we're not careful, we'll, we're going to see not only apes, the
08:58society of apes, um, diminishing, but there are other species too, which are, excuse me, there are other species too,
09:07which are, uh, you know,
09:08seriously under threat.
09:10I mean, particularly the rhino population, for instance, is, is, is almost decimated.
09:14There's virtually no white rhinos left on the planet.
09:17You know, it's an extraordinarily, it's a real indictment of, of, of, of, uh, you know, of man's attitude towards,
09:24towards the, towards wildlife.
09:27Mm-hmm.
09:27Do you have any particular animals that really kind of captivate you besides the rhino and, and, uh, primates and
09:34you directed The Jungle Book?
09:35Like, are there animals that are, um, fascinating to you?
09:39Um, oh, I'm fascinated by all sorts.
09:42And I'm actually, I, I, I, I used to be, uh, a very passionate bird watcher.
09:47Uh, so, so I've always, my favorite bird was a peregrine falcon.
09:51I was always really, you know, fascinated by them because of their speed, their ability to fly at great speed.
09:57So, um, I mean, when they're in there, when they dive, they can, they can literally reach speeds of up
10:02to, like, 120 miles an hour, which is extraordinary.
10:05Yeah.
10:06Yeah, they're, they're very, uh, there are not many human, humanistic characteristics to birds.
10:12They're very alien, aren't they?
10:14Um.
10:14Or do you see it?
10:15Oh, no, I think you can, I think you can absolutely bring, you can definitely anthropomorphize a bird, you know.
10:21Um, uh, yeah, very much so.
10:24Um, I mean, that's a great, again, the great thing about this technology is that you can make any creature,
10:30uh, sentient and, and, um, relatable to or believable in that way.
10:36Um, so you, you're now a director, um, you've worked with Matt Reeves, you've worked with J.J. Abrams and
10:43Peter Jackson.
10:45I mean, what do you guys talk about when you have conversations?
10:48Oh, look, these guys are such, uh, sources of inspiration, you know, they are, you know, those three people that
10:54you mentioned are all brilliant directors and, in, in different ways.
10:59And, you know, I, I mean, Peter Jackson's a very, very good, close friend and amazing collaborator and I've done
11:06so many projects with, with Peter.
11:09Um, Matt, of course, with, with, with these movies and J.J. on Star Wars.
11:13So, they're, we, we, we, you know, we have fun, we, um, you know, and we, and we are passionate,
11:21all passionate about the stories that we're telling.
11:23So, so it's always, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's always great to work with such, you know, supremely intelligent,
11:31uh, directors such as they.
11:32Do you get any, um, do you get more information from working with them and observing them or from talking
11:39to them?
11:39Because I know that some people learn by getting tips and, you know, and then other people learn by just
11:46observing.
11:47Um, both really, I think, I mean, I, I mean, working with Peter, I, I, you know, I was lucky
11:54enough to be the second unit director on the Hobbit trilogy.
11:55So, I was literally working to his vision. So, that was a very close collaboration and I learned so much
12:01from him, um, in that respect.
12:02And then equally from observing Matt on, on, on, on the last two films, you know, he's so clear about,
12:09about point of view, about where he places the camera and, and taking off where the, where the actors are,
12:17allowing the scenes to come together before placing any cameras.
12:20Um, so he's, so that again, there's, you learn lots of different things from, from, from, from great filmmakers.
12:26Um, do you have a, uh, favorite moment of the original Planet of the Apes series? Have you seen all
12:34the, all the movies?
12:35I have seen them all, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've not watched them all recently. I have over the years
12:39watched them all, but not, um, but not recently.
12:43Um, but I do love, I mean, I love the first one the most because it's, it's the most, the
12:50purest and, and, um, the one that resonates with me still.
12:53Um, and I just will never forget the first image of those cornfields and then suddenly seeing apes on horseback
13:01and then nets coming.
13:02There's that close up shot of the nets kind of trawling through the cornfields and catching human beings.
13:08Yeah.
13:08And that, that really, really haunted me.
13:13Um, can you tell me what it was like, uh, working so closely, like physically closely with Woody Harrelson?
13:19Yeah, I mean, he is a genius actor and we became really close friends on this and, and just the
13:26intensity of, of the characters.
13:29Um, you know, Caesar wanting to kill the Colonel, the Colonel wanting to take out the whole of, of, of,
13:35of the ape species.
13:37The hatred between them.
13:38And yet on top of that, this, this sort of, this sort of understanding between the fascination, this really strange
13:46fascination.
13:47And, and Woody and I just love, really loved working with each other.
13:50I mean, it was, it was, those scenes were so intense.
13:53And, um, I think it's one of the greatest acting experiences I've ever had with a fellow actor.
14:00And, and the fact that we, we kind of really got on with each other and became close buddies, um,
14:06was, was, was, was, was fantastic as well on top of it.
14:09Would you like to direct him someday?
14:11Yeah, I'd love to direct him.
14:13Yeah, I mean, he's just, I mean, he's so varied and, and talented, multi-talented.
14:19Um, the, the characters that he, he plays always have such, such, such huge amount of kind of emotional range
14:25and depth.
14:26And, uh, and, and, and he's funny.
14:29And, and, and there's, he's got this incredible ability to even make the darkest of characters, which he did with
14:35the Colonel.
14:35Make him, uh, uh, you know, understandable and relatable to.
14:38Mm, yeah.
14:40Um, so, uh, one of my final questions before we're done.
14:44Um, if you could, I, I know that you probably have a background.
14:48A backstory for Caesar and maybe it's something, you know, it, is there anything that you know about Caesar that
14:57we don't know because it's part of your own personal backstory for him?
15:01Well, yeah, I mean, I think, I, I always approached Caesar like, uh, like a, like a, a human in
15:10an ape's skin.
15:11Um, that he was always this outsider.
15:13This character that couldn't ever truly find an identity.
15:17That he was brought up by human beings and was loved by human beings and was shown great empathy by
15:22them.
15:23And then struggled to find, you know, at first to find an understanding of what it was like to be
15:29an ape.
15:29So I really thought of him as a, a kind of combination as, of a, a very gifted child because
15:35of this, this, this drug that's coursing through his veins and helping him accelerate kind of, um, evolutionarily.
15:40Um, I always felt like he was this child that, uh, was like a gift, like a supremely gifted child
15:47who could, you know, play concertos or, or, or, or, you know, very complicated, do complicated mathematical equations.
15:53And that, and that there's burning intelligence within him.
15:56And, but yet he always felt like he was an outsider, but being an outsider enabled him to empathize with
16:02all of the different types of apes.
16:04So, so there, there's a sadness in that character of vulnerability and, uh, the sense of never really belonging.
16:10But, but that led to his ability to be empathetic.
16:13Hmm. Kind of a Bobby Fischer type.
16:15Right. Right.
16:17Andy, thank you so much for talking to me today and have a wonderful day.
16:21Thank you, you too.