- 18 hours ago
Darren Criss, Jeff Daniels, Matthew Rhys and J.K. Simmons also star on the Drama Actor Roundtable
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00:00:02Hi, and welcome to Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter.
00:00:04I'm Lacey Rose, and I'm joined by J.K. Simmons, Matthew Rhys,
00:00:08Jason Bateman, Darren Criss, Jeff Daniels, and Michael B. Jordan.
00:00:11Thanks all for joining us.
00:00:13So we're going to start with what I hope is a fun question.
00:00:16What is the most amusing or frustrating feedback you've received in trying out for a part?
00:00:20I have one.
00:00:21Go.
00:00:21But nothing was actually said.
00:00:24I went to a casting.
00:00:25Nothing went to a casting.
00:00:25I could hear the casting agent on the phone,
00:00:28and the assistant said, she's in the middle of a very important call.
00:00:31Please sit down and wait.
00:00:32The call went on and on and on.
00:00:34The assistant kept apologizing.
00:00:35Then about 45 minutes, the assistant went,
00:00:39can you come into the office?
00:00:40And I could hear, she was in the middle of a heated, heated conversation.
00:00:44I walked to the doorway.
00:00:45I stand at the doorway.
00:00:46She's going, I know, I know.
00:00:47She looks at me.
00:00:48She goes.
00:00:50The assistant just went.
00:00:53That was it.
00:00:54That was it.
00:00:55That's when I knew I wanted to be an actor.
00:00:57Mm-hmm.
00:00:58Oh, God.
00:00:59I feel like that's kind of indicative of a lot of stories that involve, I guess, less than positive feedback,
00:01:04which is not so much actually hearing what it is, but not hearing anything at all.
00:01:08Yeah.
00:01:08It's sort of the proverbial head shake where you go,
00:01:10so is there anything that could have done?
00:01:12And there's just, no, there's nothing.
00:01:14And you just don't, well, I just want anything.
00:01:16Yeah, no.
00:01:16It's very nebulous.
00:01:17I just don't like you.
00:01:18I don't like you.
00:01:19Your face.
00:01:19I don't like the look of you.
00:01:21Yeah.
00:01:21It's kind of great now with the self-taping where an actor can just audition on their own computer
00:01:28with their own sort of webcam or their phone or whatever, and then basically shoot it till
00:01:33you love it and then send that, and you don't have to go through all the nerves of the room
00:01:38and hopefully you do it the way you practiced in the mirror at home.
00:01:43All of that's taken away for the most part.
00:01:46I think the self-taping is what's going on.
00:01:48So you're not ever actually rejected by another human being face-to-face.
00:01:53No, it's self-taping.
00:01:54It's just not in person.
00:01:56Yeah.
00:01:56Your agent relays a really nice message.
00:01:59Mm-hmm.
00:01:59Loved you, but she's going with a different hook.
00:02:02Not tall enough.
00:02:02Yeah, exactly.
00:02:03You must have had one.
00:02:06The thank you next I've had a lot.
00:02:09I remember, I don't know if it's the same, but I was doing a play off-Broadway, and it was
00:02:13god-awful.
00:02:15Yeah, I saw that one.
00:02:18Not great.
00:02:19And you even came.
00:02:21I didn't stay.
00:02:23You only came to the first day.
00:02:24You stayed for a while.
00:02:26And this actress, friend of ours, came in to the dressing room afterwards, and we're just, we're in a horrible,
00:02:33and she just put her head around the curtain and just said, oh, God.
00:02:41And just laughed.
00:02:42And just laughed.
00:02:43Oh, God.
00:02:44Amazing.
00:02:44You knew.
00:02:45She knew.
00:02:45Yeah, you just knew.
00:02:46Well, do you know?
00:02:47I mean, it's an interesting question.
00:02:48Do you know when something isn't good?
00:02:50I think you do.
00:02:52You do?
00:02:52I mean, usually.
00:02:53Despite yourself, I think, or if you don't, it's made very clear to you very soon, especially in this day
00:02:58and age.
00:02:59I think it'll find its way to you, whether you like it or not.
00:03:02During shooting?
00:03:04I don't, that's anyone's guess.
00:03:05I think more, maybe from the theater, it's easy.
00:03:08From the play, yeah.
00:03:08From the play, it's easy because you know it immediately.
00:03:10Yeah, but you don't know.
00:03:11Or if they interrupt you during, you know, your lines, your auditions, like, no, no, just try to give you
00:03:16direction in the middle of what you're trying to do.
00:03:18And you're feeling really good about yourself, and they're like, no, no, no, let's just try this.
00:03:21Or have you ever thought about it this way?
00:03:22And it's like, okay, cool, maybe my instinct wasn't correct.
00:03:25Wasn't quite there?
00:03:26Yeah, wasn't quite on point.
00:03:27So, Michael, you had recently said, personally, I think you're defined by what you say no to.
00:03:32Mm-hmm.
00:03:33What does that mean to you, and how have those decisions defined you in your career?
00:03:39How do I answer that without throwing those projects out there?
00:03:43Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:44Good question.
00:03:46Oh, there's one piece of ground.
00:03:47I think you were in it.
00:03:48Let's hear all of me say no to.
00:03:50I said no to the Godfather.
00:03:51I said no to my 50s.
00:03:54You can't do everything, you know, and then obviously, you know, you have agents that have their own agenda.
00:03:58Everybody's kind of like, you know, trying to push you and navigate you towards saying or taking a job that
00:04:02you may not feel 100% comfortable with.
00:04:04So, for me personally, it's just kind of like, you know, not chasing the money, that may look good, okay,
00:04:09everything on paper that, you know, may look good in the script or whatnot may not actually turn out that
00:04:13way when it hits the screen.
00:04:15So, you just kind of have to go with your instinct and, I don't know, stay true to your gut.
00:04:19So, I try to listen to the inner voice as much as I can.
00:04:22When did you guys sort of gain the confidence to be able to say no?
00:04:25Was there a point in your career where you felt comfortable being able to say, no, I don't need this
00:04:31one?
00:04:32I think it's a luxury to be able to say no.
00:04:33Well, yeah, it is.
00:04:36But it also, for me, there were two stages in it.
00:04:39And one of them was very early on when I was just from hunger and I was like waiting tables
00:04:43half the time and doing theater in Buffalo or Cleveland or Atlanta or wherever.
00:04:48And I had an agent in New York and I would go back and I would audition for a few
00:04:52things and I'd get a job and I'd go off and do a play, you know.
00:04:55And I got an offer to do a show that I was not interested in doing and it was the
00:05:01only offer I had.
00:05:02And I was talking to my agent about it, sitting there across the desk from him in the office, like
00:05:07in the olden days.
00:05:09And he said, well, what else are you going to do?
00:05:11And I said, well, I don't know.
00:05:13Isn't that your job?
00:05:14I mean, you know, he goes, look, it's a good company.
00:05:17It's a good, you know, I mean, it might not be your favorite role, but, you know, go.
00:05:21It's a job.
00:05:22Go.
00:05:22And I went and I was miserable for, you know, eight weeks in Cleveland, if that's not redundant.
00:05:29Sorry, man.
00:05:30And I thought, you know, I mean.
00:05:31I'm sorry, Brian.
00:05:31Honestly, I would have been happier waiting tables at Joe Allen and waiting for something better to come along.
00:05:39So really that was when I started realizing I can say no because, you know, whether it serves my career
00:05:46or not, it's going to serve my happiness.
00:05:49That's a good point.
00:05:50And I guess, like, for me, like, when I was younger, I started off, like, you know, still living at
00:05:54home.
00:05:54I didn't have any real responsibilities.
00:05:55I didn't have a mortgage to worry about or, like, bills to pay.
00:05:57So you're kind of taking what's in front of you.
00:06:00And at that point, I've been blessed to, like, work consistently as a kid, even though there was tons of
00:06:06no's and I didn't get, you know, a lot of the auditions that I went out for.
00:06:09The roles that I did get stuck around and kind of pushed me to that next level.
00:06:12But once you got older and a little bit more successful, the choices that you make really kind of define
00:06:17the way the industry looks at you and kind of how you move forward with your career.
00:06:20And those are the times that you've got to be a little bit more, you know, selective with the kind
00:06:24of project.
00:06:24And oftentimes, the choices, or at least in my case, it's pretty easy.
00:06:29I mean, one's a clear, you know, way.
00:06:31And then the other one is, well, I think I can not embarrass myself with that or not be a
00:06:36pain in the ass on that set by trying to make it something that it clearly should be or wants
00:06:41to be.
00:06:41So that's where you set the bar.
00:06:43Yeah.
00:06:44Just don't want to be a pain in the ass.
00:06:46And take the no-brainer down.
00:06:47Not embarrassing yourself.
00:06:48What's a no-brainer?
00:06:49What are the obvious no's?
00:06:51And I don't mean specific projects, but what are the things you say, mm, not going to do that?
00:06:57Musicals.
00:06:58Yeah.
00:06:59Hey, guys.
00:06:59Hey, guys.
00:07:00Come on now.
00:07:01Just jokes.
00:07:01Just jokes.
00:07:02Just jokes.
00:07:04You know, stuff that is the real low-hanging fruit that seems like a big payday or, you know, something
00:07:14that is, it's clearly just about, they're trying, it's like a sprinter project, right?
00:07:19They just want like a big splash, big opening, and they're not really too concerned about the merits of it,
00:07:24which would sort of lead to like multiple weeks of people going to go see it, you know?
00:07:28The things I'm drawn to say yes to are less about the role, you know, even the script as a
00:07:35whole.
00:07:36It's about the people who are doing it because when I feel like I really want to work with somebody,
00:07:42it's usually pretty indicative of the quality of the projects, you know, the people that you associate yourself with.
00:07:47So I don't care whether I've got three lines to say in it or 30.
00:07:50It's more about who's directing it, who are the other actors, what's the studio, and like where is it, you
00:07:56know, is it something that I would want to go see as a viewer just because of its quality or
00:08:01its ambition?
00:08:03That's a big go-to now.
00:08:05Who's in it?
00:08:06Yeah.
00:08:06Who else is in it?
00:08:07Who are you looking at?
00:08:08Oh, it's him?
00:08:09It's her?
00:08:10I'm in.
00:08:11Yeah, exactly.
00:08:11Oh, it's that?
00:08:12I don't like that.
00:08:13It defines what the tone of it is because you can read a script and there's 60 different ways you
00:08:19can do that script.
00:08:20And not all of them are bad, not all of them are good, but who they're going after says a
00:08:25lot about what their creative intention is for it, you know?
00:08:28See, I'm learning something here.
00:08:29Yeah.
00:08:31I get married to the script, you know, a lot of the time and, you know, which I, obviously, we
00:08:37all want to do.
00:08:38You do stuff that you can fail at.
00:08:40That's where I'm at now.
00:08:41I mean, being, right?
00:08:43You risk something.
00:08:44Yeah, you want to take a chance.
00:08:45Yeah.
00:08:46Have a challenge.
00:08:46That's a lean-in for me.
00:08:48For you, though, earlier on, I mean, I remember you talking about your agents were saying, don't do Dumb and
00:08:54Dumber, don't get off the Oscar train.
00:08:56What was that conversation?
00:08:57We're begging you not to do this.
00:08:59Yeah.
00:08:59Why?
00:09:00Why and why do you feel so confident?
00:09:02Because there were three agents on the phone the night before I was to fly the next morning to do
00:09:07wardrobe for Dumb and Dumber.
00:09:08Three agents, one in New York, two in L.A.
00:09:10The two in L.A. were going, we're going to stop you.
00:09:12You're not going to do this.
00:09:14You're a serious, important actor.
00:09:16We're trying to get you to the Oscars.
00:09:18You keep defeating us.
00:09:20Stop doing that.
00:09:21And this will be the end of your career.
00:09:23Frankly, Jim Carrey's a comedic genius.
00:09:25With all due respect, he's going to wipe you off the screen.
00:09:28Say no, and we'll take care of it.
00:09:30I said, you know what?
00:09:33I'm bored with the career.
00:09:35I want to change it up.
00:09:36I'm living in Michigan, right?
00:09:39I need to go from Dumb and Dumber to anything remotely serious.
00:09:44And for my world, in between, there are all these jobs.
00:09:47Because if you can do this and you can do that.
00:09:50So I said, if this is a mistake, guys, it's mine.
00:09:54I'm going.
00:09:54But he's such a good actor.
00:09:56And that is what makes him such a great comic.
00:09:59As are you.
00:10:01The roles you played in that movie, they were big swings.
00:10:07And you needed the acting chops to make the specificity of those characters real.
00:10:12I think that's why people say comedy is harder than drama.
00:10:15Because you've got to be real at an even heightened and exaggerated place.
00:10:19And so that's probably, I don't know, if I were you, with your talent,
00:10:23that's probably what I would have been saying to myself.
00:10:24And what these agents might not have been factoring in.
00:10:27It was like, no, no, I'm going to go do this and I'm going to be great at it.
00:10:30Because I've got the acting talent to be really, every bit as funny as Jim Carrey.
00:10:35Which you obviously were.
00:10:36Are you still with those agents?
00:10:38Uh, one of them, yeah.
00:10:40One of them.
00:10:40The one that's alive.
00:10:42And you know what?
00:10:43They had a good point.
00:10:44They're going, Jeff, this could, this could, and nobody moved.
00:10:47Well, it was risky.
00:10:48Yeah, yeah.
00:10:48We thought 12-year-olds would go, but that was about it.
00:10:50Now you've got Tom Arnold's career, you know.
00:10:54All due respect to Tom.
00:10:55Were there times in your career, were there specific projects
00:10:57where you sort of tuned everybody else out and said,
00:11:00I'm doing this, I really want this one?
00:11:05I'm negotiating one right now.
00:11:07They're not being that helpful with.
00:11:10No, it's, you, I think, I don't know.
00:11:16I think I've got a, I'm very fortunate to have a great team
00:11:21and they're all really good at what they do and I love their advice
00:11:23and that's what you pay them for and you want to be deferential.
00:11:27But at the end of the day, you're the only one that can make the decision
00:11:32based on the things that you know what you're planning on doing
00:11:34and you can't expect them to read your mind and they know that.
00:11:38So you take their opinion and you give it the value that it deserves,
00:11:42but they can't see what your plans are
00:11:45and inevitably they see what you did and they don't say, ah, got it.
00:11:52But inevitably they say, I understand why you did that.
00:11:56I didn't see it that way and no way you could have explained that to me.
00:12:01So there's a place for their advice and it's really, it's a valuable place,
00:12:05but it shouldn't, at least in my case, it doesn't dictate.
00:12:09I feel like it's a gamble every single time.
00:12:10There's no surefire anything.
00:12:11I mean, there's an alternate dimension where that didn't go so well.
00:12:15Yeah, well, I've gone, yeah.
00:12:16That would have been the lesson you learned.
00:12:18Oh, man, I should have really, shouldn't have taken that risk with the comedy thing.
00:12:21You took a risk and it paid off, so we all win.
00:12:23But there's many different situations where they could have just blew up in your face.
00:12:27Yeah.
00:12:28But there's no way to know.
00:12:29I mean, you just follow your gut.
00:12:31And now that's what keeps me in the business are the challenges of not repeating myself.
00:12:37You know, we didn't see you do whiplash.
00:12:40We haven't seen you do that.
00:12:42And all of a sudden, out of the blue, you kill in that.
00:12:45You just kill.
00:12:46And it easily could have been way over the top.
00:12:49Oh, turn the guy down.
00:12:51No.
00:12:52Well, Miles Teller was saying that.
00:12:53Was he?
00:12:54It was Miles.
00:12:55But that was an example of a great risk taken and that worked out well.
00:13:00I love that stuff.
00:13:01I love that stuff.
00:13:02I have a question.
00:13:03After this is sort of similar to easy nose, I think there is a certain, and a lot of these
00:13:09people go, I want to believe that this isn't the case.
00:13:12But there's a certain lack of imagination that happens sometimes around town where, given
00:13:16the last thing you did, if there was a bit of success, they go, okay, perfect.
00:13:18JK, we got this new role for you.
00:13:20It's this kind of manic, crazy sort of authority type or similar to any of the roles you've just
00:13:25played.
00:13:26To me, those are the easy no's where I go, oh, come on, guys.
00:13:28You're smarter than that.
00:13:29You must know that life is bigger than whatever I just did.
00:13:33Group.
00:13:34It was, I think right after Glee, there was several teenage roles that were very similar
00:13:38to Glee, which, hey, on the one hand, you go, okay, I guess you believed it.
00:13:42Great, I did my job.
00:13:43But now, now, that's true.
00:13:45That's another universe I can live in.
00:13:48But now after Versace, it's like, oh, we got this weird kind of creepy killer type.
00:13:51I'm like, come on, guys.
00:13:53We're actors.
00:13:54We're acting.
00:13:54Exactly.
00:13:55We just did that.
00:13:55So where's the...
00:13:56But there's a branding that happens.
00:13:58Exactly.
00:13:58It's inevitable.
00:13:59And that's been around.
00:13:59Gable was a brand.
00:14:01All those guys.
00:14:02When they figured out Jimmy Stewart's personality...
00:14:06Wrote that way.
00:14:07That's the wrong thing.
00:14:08But there's a distinction between that leading man and character actor, right?
00:14:12Where an audience, I think, has a predisposition to what to expect with you.
00:14:18Like a character actor, I think their knees are going to be bent a little bit deeper.
00:14:21Like, I'll go wherever he wants to take me.
00:14:23Whereas a leading man, I think if a leading man went and did some incredibly arch character,
00:14:28audience might be a little bit like, hey, easy, pump it a little bit.
00:14:31You know, walk me into that kind of swing, you know, over the course of two or three movies
00:14:36before you, you know, go with the limp and the accent and the lazy eye, you know?
00:14:42Note to self, don't you?
00:14:43Exactly.
00:14:43Exactly.
00:14:44I think it's more or less like the risk that the actor wants to take also.
00:14:46You know, like how risky do they want to take?
00:14:48What kind of chance do they want to take on the next role?
00:14:50Do they want to stay safe and do something that they've done before?
00:14:52Just for, you know, paychecks or whatever the hell it is.
00:14:55And is your career in a position to do that?
00:14:57Exactly.
00:14:58So with Fahrenheit, it was one where you said sort of initially you were not interested
00:15:03in the role, in the project.
00:15:07Why and what got you to yes?
00:15:10I wasn't interested in playing an authoritative figure.
00:15:13You know, what was going on in the world with like police and like my community, you know
00:15:16what I'm saying?
00:15:16Being a black man, I didn't want to play somebody who was a presser.
00:15:20You know what I'm saying?
00:15:20I just didn't want that in my head.
00:15:22I just something that I wasn't interested in doing playing, you know, a firefighter that
00:15:25was going around, you know, burning books and, you know, you know, just that kind of
00:15:29that that character for me just didn't sit right because I played, you know, Oscar Grant
00:15:34and I was playing characters that, you know, meant so much to my community at that time.
00:15:38After sitting down with the director, Ramin, and, you know, knowing Michael Shannon was
00:15:42going to be a part of it, he was an incredible actor and understanding the vision and the kind
00:15:45of themes and messages that he wanted to kind of, you know, to send to the movie.
00:15:49And I, at that time, I didn't, I haven't read the book either.
00:15:52You hadn't?
00:15:52I haven't read the book.
00:15:53You know, I wasn't on my high school reading list.
00:15:56So, um, I went and read through the book and kind of really understood what Bradbury
00:15:59was really trying to say.
00:16:00And I was like, okay.
00:16:02Go on.
00:16:03Don't stop reading to me.
00:16:05Sir.
00:16:05Next page.
00:16:11Did you think that one tiny crime would be wiped out by thousands of good deeds?
00:16:19That there would be no punishment.
00:16:28Little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
00:16:30You read a few lines, you're ready to blow up the world, chop heads off, destroy authority.
00:16:36I know.
00:16:38I've been through it all.
00:16:39Your mom has been somebody who's been very influential of what types of roles you didn't
00:16:44want to keep dying for your mom.
00:16:46And then also, like, you know, to Jason's point, wanting to be a leading man, you know,
00:16:49I didn't want the, you know, audiences and people to keep seeing me die in roles.
00:16:53You know, I just, I wanted to survive through the act, you know, so I couldn't keep playing
00:16:58that role.
00:16:59And yeah, my mom, you know, being able to, for her, just every time I watched, you know,
00:17:04her watch me die on the screen, it tore me up as I got older.
00:17:08She would just weep.
00:17:08And she's a very emotional mom.
00:17:09I love her.
00:17:11Moms are.
00:17:11Oh, man.
00:17:12And I just wanted to play a role so she could see me win.
00:17:16No?
00:17:17No, I don't care about anyone.
00:17:18Oh, man.
00:17:18Maybe I'm a softener.
00:17:19I'm a softener.
00:17:20I really do.
00:17:21And then you die.
00:17:24I'm right here, mom.
00:17:25I'm right here, right next to you.
00:17:26It's okay.
00:17:27So that definitely had an influence on just wanting to, you know.
00:17:31Are there tweaks that you made in those sort of conversations with the director that you
00:17:35said, okay, here's what we're going to have to do to make me feel comfortable playing
00:17:40this character in this world we're living in?
00:17:42Well, I kind of wrapped my brain around it and kind of once I got, once I saw the full
00:17:45scope of what the movie was supposed to be and what we're trying to say, I was kind of
00:17:49on board.
00:17:50Obviously, Guy Montag was not written for, you know, a 30-year-old black guy at the time.
00:17:54So there were certain things that was still very true to the book that we had to, you
00:17:58know, we had to make a little bit more authentic for myself.
00:18:01So we kind of crafted those up a little bit.
00:18:03And once we got that out the way, it was smooth sailing.
00:18:06Darren, you played a famously homicidal real person.
00:18:10Did any part of that give you pause?
00:18:12This particular person had very lasting effects on people who are still alive and the echoes
00:18:19of the tragedy and destruction that he wrought.
00:18:21You know, I couldn't help but think about, you know, the sons and daughters and cousins
00:18:25and husbands and wives of people that were affected by this guy that, I don't know, maybe
00:18:29they watched the first season of Crime Story and they're like the OJ show and now they're
00:18:33like, oh God, like they're doing this about uncle so-and-so.
00:18:36This is like, we have to revisit this 20 years later and make it pop cultural zeitgeist
00:18:41fodder.
00:18:42Like that's a little, so that weighs on me a little bit.
00:18:46But once you take this sort of, I guess, that gravitas of real life tragedy out of it, I mean,
00:18:51as an actor and as a craftsman, so to speak, yeah, like those are the projects we wake up
00:18:56for in the morning.
00:18:57I can't lose him.
00:18:59I can't.
00:19:00I just can't.
00:19:00Hey, you've got it bad for him.
00:19:05He's a house.
00:19:07He's a home.
00:19:09He's a yard and a family and picking kids up from school.
00:19:17He's a future.
00:19:21And up until now, I've only dated the past.
00:19:23I remember reading how you wanted to find the sort of the endearing qualities, the good
00:19:27pieces to be able to play.
00:19:29Yeah, I mean, but that's, I mean, that's our job.
00:19:31Like, we're in the business of empathy.
00:19:33Like, it doesn't matter what my personal moral spectrum is.
00:19:36It's like, you're inhabiting this person.
00:19:38You know, heroes don't necessarily know they're, well, maybe heroes, but crazy people don't
00:19:42know they're crazy.
00:19:43You know, we're all just, we're empathizing with these people regardless of them being
00:19:47real or not.
00:19:48Sure.
00:19:49Jeff, obviously, you can play off that with Looming Tower.
00:19:52This, I mean, I don't know if you had similar concerns.
00:19:54You're shooting this thing in New York.
00:19:57What are the sort of the conversations, the fears going in about how it's going to be
00:20:01received?
00:20:02There are plenty of families who may find this cathartic.
00:20:06They may find this terrifying.
00:20:08I didn't get the vibe that the family or that the family was, or extended family was
00:20:14interested.
00:20:16So out of respect, I just, I didn't go there.
00:20:19I went to the FBI partners, I went to Ali Safan himself, I went to 10 FBI guys sitting
00:20:26in a bar for three hours just listening about John, the good, the bad, the strength, until
00:20:30I had enough to go, all right, I know how to do this now.
00:20:34Okay.
00:20:34That's all I need.
00:20:35Thanks.
00:20:53That kind of opens you up to kind of do what you think John was thinking and all of that.
00:21:03But that to me is more important, is telling the narrative.
00:21:07I mean, the, getting the essence of whatever the story is.
00:21:09Like, obviously you don't look exactly like him and speak like him, you'd be impossible
00:21:14to assume that.
00:21:15So I think there's a very.
00:21:16But you get the spirit, you get the strengths and weaknesses and, and based on true events
00:21:20and things they said most, some of the time, and then you fill in the rest.
00:21:25Yeah, exactly.
00:21:26And you're trying to honor the spirit of the documentary.
00:21:28Emotional truth.
00:21:29And the guy you care about with me was Ali Soufan.
00:21:32Ali knew him and studied and was, or was with him for years.
00:21:36How'd I do?
00:21:38And if you get a thumbs up, which I did, you're done.
00:21:41Good.
00:21:42That's the end of validation with critics, everybody else, done.
00:21:47Do you watch, like, like, will you, will you go to, to play back and, and watch, or even
00:21:51when it's all done, will you watch?
00:21:52I didn't know this was an option, because I was never high enough in the totem pole to
00:21:57where I would dare to ask.
00:21:59But it was actually offered to me by a focus puller, like, because I was very concerned
00:22:03with the technical aspect of a very long shot, and I was so terrified of having messed something
00:22:08up.
00:22:08I was like, do you mind if I watch it?
00:22:10I'm so sorry.
00:22:11I know we've got to keep going.
00:22:12They're like, you know, you're not allowed to ask at any point.
00:22:14I was like, really?
00:22:14You shouldn't have told me that.
00:22:16So I did, yeah, once or twice, but I think I've, it's just best not to know, man.
00:22:20Do you watch your stuff?
00:22:21No.
00:22:22Do you watch your stuff?
00:22:22I've only recently started to watch more because of the technicality of the boxing
00:22:27stuff, or if it's, it's technical, it's technical stuff, or, but then in watching the boxing
00:22:31stuff, no, I've actually started to pay attention to the performance, and I was like, okay, so
00:22:34then in other scenes, I'm like, okay, let me see if that, I think I'm slipping down that
00:22:40slope.
00:22:40There's a disconnect.
00:22:42It's never satisfying as when between action and cut.
00:22:48That's, that's the peak, right?
00:22:50And I think it has to do with theater.
00:22:53I remember I was doing something with somebody who was, she was a major star at the time,
00:22:57and, and, and they had Video Village, and she'd go over between each take, and it was three
00:23:03minutes between each take, and I'm just, I'm just like that, and, you know, we weren't
00:23:09getting along anyway, and she came over and says, why don't you watch yourself?
00:23:13If you could learn something.
00:23:14I said, we don't, and I said, we don't have dailies on Broadway.
00:23:20There you go.
00:23:21You dropped the shot by.
00:23:22Yeah, exactly.
00:23:24Right on, right on the, but I also, and it's, maybe it's getting older, is that I don't want
00:23:30to know.
00:23:30I don't, I don't, I want to, I want to get to, that's why I asked you about, and I've
00:23:35directed, and acted, and written, so I know that kind of two hats while you're in front
00:23:39of the camera thing, and it's, you can do it, absolutely, you can do it, but I, it works
00:23:44best for me when I get to cut, and I don't remember what I did.
00:23:48Right.
00:23:49The impulses that you're doing, the five words or less that you got from the director,
00:23:53great, boom, boom, it's between action, that's what film acting is, right?
00:23:57But I've learned so much about, about what, what I can get away with not doing, based
00:24:02on watching stuff, even just down to size, you know, I mean, well, if you can ask, you
00:24:08know, the AC, well, what's, well, you know, you're going to 75, or is that 32, you know,
00:24:11like, just like, if I'm acting nervous with my finger down here, well, that's not, that's
00:24:15not in the frame, I better, you know, be pulling on my collar a little bit, or scratch, you
00:24:18know, stuff like that on the day, but then when you see it all coalesce with the final
00:24:23product, and you get a sense of, oh, there's, there could be music that comes in this later,
00:24:28or is it, it's just understanding how it all comes together, and how you come across versus
00:24:33how you felt that day, was really helpful for me to try to constantly try to take everything
00:24:38down, down, down, down, down.
00:24:40See, I feel like I still don't know, like, I never learned, I never studied camera acting,
00:24:47uh, because I started, I did theater for 20 years, and nobody was offering to put a
00:24:52camera, you know, put me on a camera, and when, and the first time that I had an opportunity
00:24:57to do something significant on camera was, again, Tom Fontana.
00:25:01Yeah, yeah.
00:25:02Still here.
00:25:03It was a guest spot, still here, uh, a guest spot on, uh, Homicide, uh, the great series with
00:25:09the great cast, and, uh, and I, it was, it was like a one-act play, we had a scene
00:25:15in the
00:25:15interrogation room that was like 12 pages, uh, with Andre Brower and Kyle Sikora and myself,
00:25:21and, and once that aired, and this is back in the, you know, the VCR days, you know,
00:25:26I recorded it, and I, I mean, I looked at every single beat, and I dissected it over,
00:25:30and over, and over, just to critique my own work, because I was new at this, and I was a
00:25:35theater actor, and I didn't know, you know, when I was true, and when I was false, and I,
00:25:40and I, I mean, I, I, I wore out that VCR tape, you know, being so,
00:25:45self-critical, but also giving myself credit for, for moments that work, and it's become,
00:25:51ever, since then, I've gone almost polar opposite, not quite as far as Jeff has gone,
00:25:55but I've, I've gotten to the point where now where I feel like there's a level of, of self-consciousness
00:26:01that I, that I want to avoid, and I don't, uh, uh, I don't avoid my work. I, I watch
00:26:07it, you know,
00:26:08uh, uh, uh, sometimes, but not always, and, uh, and I think, um, I think it's best for me at
00:26:15this
00:26:16point, uh, uh, not to, uh, uh, not to obsess about the, the, the minutiae like that.
00:26:21Was initially, was initially, was it illuminating that coming from the theater, you've got to be able
00:26:25to hit the back row, as well as the front row? Was it illuminating that it's, it's all front row
00:26:29with the camera? In other words, if I, if I try to hit the back row, I'm going to be
00:26:33overdoing it for camera acting. Yeah, I mean, that, that was kind of a given going in, you
00:26:39know, and especially with, and I was so fortunate to have such wonderful writing and, and great
00:26:43scene partners, you know, uh, early on, you know, I wasn't doing a, you know, a guest spot
00:26:48on some schlocky something or on a soap opera or, or, or whatever. I was, it was like doing
00:26:54really good material with really good actors, so it was just familiar, and I just, you know,
00:26:58I mean, I, I knew enough instinctively to know, you know, there is nobody any farther
00:27:03away that's listening to me. And off, going from off-Broadway to film, there was no, I
00:27:08remember in the seven, late 70s, early 80s, there was so, oh, got a transition, got to
00:27:12bring it down, less is more, and all these Broadway actors that we were in waiting rooms
00:27:17with, you know, they were big, they were filling the 1500 seaters, we're filling 150 seats, so
00:27:23there was no transition, we were already, you know, media, you know.
00:27:39With you guys, I mean, how does, have you been surprised by the feedback that you get? Is it
00:27:43what you anticipated on your shows? I mean, you, you got the whole run of your show, is it how
00:27:48you
00:27:49thought when you guys are, are in production versus once it lands on people's TV sets?
00:27:54Yeah, it was, it was a strange one, because it was so heavily steeped in truth, but it's
00:28:00so fantastical. So your, your, the challenge felt was where to land it tonally, because
00:28:05you read it, you could read it as a farce, you go, this is ridiculous. And what the KGB
00:28:09in the United States in the early 80s were doing was farcical. So you're going, how do
00:28:13I land this in a credible, real place that the audience follows you? And, you know, because
00:28:18as much as I'd grow the rice and go, this is ridiculous, and they go, I know, but it
00:28:21happened. So you kind of go, what do I do then? They're like, we'll make it look real.
00:28:25And you go, okay. So it was always tonally, what, that was the greatest challenge of going,
00:28:31I was always going, oh my God, how'd you land this?
00:28:33Things are changing back home, opening up. And it's not just politics, it's, it's the young
00:28:40people, it's music, it's, it's different. I mean, they're talking about opening a pizza hut
00:28:44in Moscow. You see the papers. What, the Washington Post? You know, all this talk,
00:28:52perestroika and glasnost, the Americans eat it up. They want us to be just like them. I don't
00:28:59want to be like them. One of the best accolades, again, was in the third season, they were called
00:29:04illegals, they weren't even called spies. We had a real illegal who was a guy from East Germany who
00:29:09was trained six years in Moscow, adopted an American accent, spent time in Canada, brought
00:29:15into New York with the most ridiculous mandates from the KGB. And he just went, you got it right.
00:29:21And you go, oh, great. Sadly, that's only one man. That's not the audience.
00:29:25That's enough. I know. But you do, you just go, oh, great. Great. So that, those, it's those moments
00:29:31you go, oh. Yeah. You hang on to those. Yes. I'll write that on the mirror. And what about,
00:29:37what about you? What's, what's the preparation process? These, these two different guys? What
00:29:41is, is there one you're more comfortable in? Well, yeah, I was actually drawn to this before
00:29:47I got the script. And, and as my agent has learned, I don't want to know anything else before I
00:29:54read
00:29:54the script. So I didn't realize that there was this, you're playing two guys. So I read the first 20
00:30:00pages and I'm falling in love with this, the way Justin is telling the story of this sad sack,
00:30:06lowly cog in this Fritz Lang, awful, you know, dystopia. And, and then I get to page 20 and I
00:30:14go,
00:30:14you know, I mean, and I had this moment that I wished audiences could have, you know, that of
00:30:19course they don't because, because you have to market the show.
00:30:51I thought it was like this domestic drama. Now it's become this spy thing and a sci-fi aspect of
00:30:59an
00:30:59alternate universe or parallel ish universe. And I went back and immediately read the whole
00:31:06thing again from beginning to end from the point of view of the other version of Howard to the
00:31:10character. And, and you know, that dichotomy was, you know, doubly interesting. But I mean, I, I
00:31:18really, I would have signed up just to play, just to play that, that sad sack.
00:31:22Much easier. Much less work. Well, it would have been a lot, a lot less work. Much less work.
00:31:26What about for you, Jason? Obviously you're wearing many, many hats in this one. Does, does that make
00:31:31it easier in some ways? I mean, certainly more time consuming, but how does it change sort of your
00:31:36approach to the character and, and the story? Knowing that, uh, that I'm doing more than, than just the
00:31:43acting on it. I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry, just be, do you say just the acting?
00:31:47Just, just the acting. Easy stuff. You did say that? Yeah. Let me, we can pull that back, right? Yeah,
00:31:54for sure.
00:31:55Um, by doing more, more than the acting of, and it allows me, I think, I hope to hit this,
00:32:03this tonal target that I, I, I wanted to when I, when I read the, the, the first two episodes,
00:32:09which were the ones that were written.
00:32:11Uh, it was a, it was a, a, a directing hope for me. I, I wanted to direct a 600
00:32:16page movie. You know, I said, well, I'll do it if they'd let me direct all the episodes.
00:32:20Um, because I just kind of love this world. I wanted to be able to, like, figure out what it
00:32:24looked like, what it sounded like, and all that stuff.
00:32:25And I knew that by playing the central character, I might, by having two hands on the wheel, you know,
00:32:29one in front of the camera and one behind, it might increase my odds of hitting that, that, that little
00:32:34target.
00:32:35Sir, there's no business opportunities that require that much cash. Not legal ones.
00:32:39Well, I agree to disagree.
00:32:43Where's my money?
00:32:45As we told you, we can't cover that amount within 24 hours.
00:32:48Okay.
00:32:51There's two federal agents here, which means you wouldn't take the chance that there was a kidnapping and not have
00:32:57my money.
00:32:58So if you don't produce it immediately, I'm going to walk into that lobby and I'm going to tell these
00:33:01people that I can't get my money out.
00:33:03And we'll see how long that takes to go viral and you get a good old fashioned run on this
00:33:06bank.
00:33:07It changed the way in which I performed the character because I knew I would just be noting myself.
00:33:12I could, I could, I could be super subtle in this scene because I know I'll be in the editing
00:33:18room and I'll be able to kind of make sure I steal that look,
00:33:20which means I don't have to lean into that line or I can cut that line and I'll play it
00:33:25with a little bit.
00:33:33So that was kind of, that's, that's the excitement of that.
00:33:37So let me get this.
00:33:38You're in front of the camera editing.
00:33:42I mean, but I think we all do that to some extent where he just looked away.
00:33:46I won't use that.
00:33:47You guys are all talented enough to know what I'm talking about, where you're, you're, you're sort of playing with
00:33:54shading something or juxtaposing a line with
00:34:01editor are going to kind of see that and either use that or make sure that the music doesn't, doesn't
00:34:07overdo it.
00:34:08And now you look like you've overplayed the line and there's a lot of trust because there's so much more
00:34:12work downstream than, than, than the shooting.
00:34:15And so that's, that's the exciting part of this.
00:34:17First, when you're hitting the tone that you know in your head, you, you're going for, that's, that's interesting.
00:34:22That's nice.
00:34:22Hopefully the editor can pick up on that.
00:34:25That's been one of the biggest surprises of doing more film and TV stuff of late is the fact that,
00:34:32you know, because in the theater, it's, it's kind of all in the actor's hands for better or for worse.
00:34:36And even with this shit, with the American crime story, there were so many times where I was like, man,
00:34:41I look a lot better than I remember being.
00:34:44That was great.
00:34:44Or conversely, where I go, gosh, I, you know, there's that music cue that is much more terrifying than I
00:34:49remember being, you know, you're in a quiet room playing a scene in a very quiet moment.
00:34:52And all of a sudden it's, and it's great.
00:34:54Like, wow, this is really intense and scary.
00:34:56I don't remember it being that way.
00:34:57And there's so many things that are out of your control.
00:34:59I, I envy that ability to sort of curate the whole thing.
00:35:02It's really fun.
00:35:03But again, trust, you trust the people that you're with.
00:35:04And I'm, I'm pleased as punch with my certain thing.
00:35:07I'm also not trying to throw anybody under the bus.
00:35:09You don't like my music cue?
00:35:11It's great.
00:35:12For the rest of you, what makes you uncomfortable as an actor?
00:35:15Are there lines you won't cross, things you won't do?
00:35:17Whether it's, it's nudity, it's, I mean, whatever it is.
00:35:20I was going to say, I was on Oz.
00:35:22So clearly I don't know about Oz whatsoever.
00:35:26But truly, was that ever uncomfortable?
00:35:28I mean, there was a lot of it.
00:35:29Oh, of course it was.
00:35:29Yeah, yeah, but that was, God bless Tom Fontana.
00:35:31I don't know why I'm looking up, he's still here.
00:35:34He's in New York.
00:35:35He's doing great, everybody.
00:35:38You know, the thing that he always, always bragged on about that show was that his actors
00:35:43were courageous, you know?
00:35:45And we were just a bunch of young dumbasses that signed up.
00:35:48I mean, I was one of the older guys, you know?
00:35:50Most of us had a theater background, and here we were on HBO and trying to pretend to be
00:35:57tough guys, everybody except Chuck Zito, who, you know, was the only actual tough guy.
00:36:02And we just, you know, as directed, you know, we just went where he pointed us.
00:36:07And there was one time in 56 episodes where Tom actually called me ahead of time to say,
00:36:15I want to know if you're okay with it.
00:36:18And this was in, like, season four, and I'm like, okay, well, you've had me rape men.
00:36:24You've had me murder men.
00:36:26You've had me tattoo men.
00:36:27You've had me crucify men.
00:36:29But I want you to sing.
00:36:30You've had somebody poop on my face.
00:36:32Oh, my God.
00:36:33And he said, and I said, what the hell do you want me to do?
00:36:36And he said, I want to do a musical episode.
00:36:37Oh, really?
00:36:38No way.
00:36:38No way.
00:36:39It was an episode where because one of the things that made him into great loss was he let people
00:36:45go do their thing.
00:36:46You know, when somebody got it.
00:36:47And Harold Perrineau had an opportunity to go do the Matrix movies.
00:36:51Harold was our Greek chorus.
00:36:53He was the man in the box, right?
00:36:55So he had to do some other version of the Greek chorus.
00:36:59And he decided he had a bunch.
00:37:00He had a, we had Patti LuPone.
00:37:02We had Joel Grey.
00:37:03We had all these, like, Broadway, you know, singers.
00:37:07And so he thought, all right, that's what we're going to do this year.
00:37:10Harold's going to be in Australia making, you know, money doing the big movie.
00:37:13And we're going to do some music.
00:37:14My face doesn't get a phone call, but the musical episode.
00:37:16But will you sing?
00:37:17I was like, yeah, yeah, that'll be fine.
00:37:20That'll be fine.
00:37:21You obviously had a very memorable episode of Girls in the final season, I believe.
00:37:27Yeah.
00:37:28Was that an easy yes?
00:37:30What was that like on set?
00:37:33Did you have concerns?
00:37:34Yeah, you know, there's obviously, you know, I had to, for those who don't know, I had to take my
00:37:38penis out and put it on Lena Dunham at the end of the episode.
00:37:41But not my penis.
00:37:42When you say on her.
00:37:43Yeah, on her thigh.
00:37:44Quite literally on.
00:37:46That's when I knew it would be pricetic.
00:37:48Did you have a choice of, like, preference of the words?
00:37:50Literally, when I did this, literally, the prompt guy go.
00:37:52Bigger on an arm.
00:37:54I know.
00:37:56There's the producer, director.
00:37:58There's the writer, producer, director.
00:38:00Yes.
00:38:00We used our own penis in the episode.
00:38:01Yes, back in the day.
00:38:04I know.
00:38:04It's such a luxury.
00:38:05You get to choose.
00:38:06The prompt guy just went, do you want to choose your penis?
00:38:08And I was like, and then you have that, in the conversation, where you go, if I choose a huge
00:38:13penis, you know, or a small.
00:38:16So I was like, I'll leave it in your capable hands.
00:38:20And he went, somewhere in the middle.
00:38:22I was like, bingo.
00:38:23And that was it.
00:38:24But yes, you know, so that took away the element of greater concern.
00:38:29But the right thing was.
00:38:30Did you think it was real?
00:38:32I knew it wasn't.
00:38:32You knew it wasn't.
00:38:33I knew it wasn't.
00:38:34How'd you know?
00:38:35Yeah.
00:38:36I think I had read it somewhere.
00:38:38It's a surprise, it's a surprise, it's a surprise, it's a surprise, it's a surprise.
00:38:40You got it.
00:38:40And moving on.
00:38:41I think, I mean, that's, I think you're explicitly talking, specifically speaking about things that, personally, you're uncomfortable with.
00:38:49But I think, in a sort of bizarre way, those are tied to sort of, like, grander challenges.
00:38:53Hopefully, if it's done tastefully.
00:38:54I mean, if we're specifically looking at nudity.
00:38:56But I think, in general, any time somebody goes, okay, I have something that might make you, I'm like, bring
00:39:04it.
00:39:04Bring it up.
00:39:04Like, what could possibly make you shaky?
00:39:08Like, I'm interested in that.
00:39:10Yeah.
00:39:11With a grain of salt, obviously.
00:39:12But, you know, it is compelling to know what compels other people, you know?
00:39:17So, you know, I've never had that happen to me personally, if something's been approached.
00:39:21I've been approached with something that was.
00:39:23All right, I want to.
00:39:23There's, like, two categories, I think.
00:39:24There's, like, scary, scary, and excited, scary.
00:39:27Yeah, sure.
00:39:27Like, to me, dancing is scary.
00:39:29And then, like, you know, playing other parts is exciting, scary.
00:39:33Challenging, exciting, scary.
00:39:34I'm with you.
00:39:35I didn't even dance at my own wedding.
00:39:37Brilliant.
00:39:37It's still an issue.
00:39:38My respect is going up.
00:39:40Refused to get up?
00:39:42Oh, I was up.
00:39:45So, obviously, the world has changed, the Hollywood world and the world beyond, in the last however many months, whether
00:39:52you define it as the Me Too era or the Time's Up era.
00:39:55How has your sort of perspective, your conversations, be it on set or off, changed in that time?
00:40:03I'm just going to jump in there because I think the perception, I mean, Hollywood is, you know, obviously a
00:40:10self-obsessed place.
00:40:12And then the perception of this as a Hollywood issue, you know, is the main thing that I take issue
00:40:19with.
00:40:20And I don't think, I mean, obviously having a heightened awareness of this and people being, you know, discovered and
00:40:28called on the carpet and prosecuted, you know, presumably, is good for everybody involved except for the culprits who are
00:40:37deserving.
00:40:38But it's way, way, way, way, way beyond Hollywood and anywhere where anyone is taking advantage of their position of
00:40:45power in order to usurp others is, you know, criminal.
00:40:50And that's why I'm glad this light is shining on that issue.
00:40:55I mean, one of the things that came out of it is this sort of discussion about pay parity.
00:40:58Is that a conversation you guys will start to have with your producers, with your co-stars?
00:41:06Do you feel a responsibility to be having those conversations?
00:41:09I think the industry has become much more concept-driven, premise-driven, IP-driven, as opposed to star-driven, is
00:41:18even more of a fertile ground for the no-brainer of parity.
00:41:26It's like there's, if they were ever saying, well, you know, dudes bring in more audience than girls, that's crazy,
00:41:33always has been.
00:41:34And now those idiots have even less of a box of stand-up.
00:41:38I was going to say that I think anything that affects the cultural landscape at all, whether it's Hollywood or
00:41:44just in the world landscape, what's interesting is the way that it's shaping the narratives that we're interested in.
00:41:51The same way that, you know, when we were in wartime, the way that shaped a lot of the narratives
00:41:56of films during that time in the early half of the 20th century.
00:41:59And how, you know, stories of, you know, KGB and American relationship, you know, these were things that were very
00:42:06hot-button issues and things that had a lot of popular interest in the 80s.
00:42:11I mean, in the same way we're seeing this wonderful rise of female voices in film and television, and that's
00:42:21cool.
00:42:22I mean, that's the flip side of all of this.
00:42:23I mean, you know, it's the silver lining, if you can call it that, of this happening to being centralized
00:42:28a lot in our industry,
00:42:30is that we're an industry that tells stories and actually has emotional weight.
00:42:36And, you know, if you're working in a corporate setup, hopefully there's infrastructural changes that are being made,
00:42:41but things that you don't see on the front lines in culture that can really affect the sort of next
00:42:47generation in an emotional way.
00:42:49So that's really cool.
00:42:51I think that's been fun to see this kind of awakening and shift in the way we're prioritizing our storytelling,
00:42:56in the way that more things will happen that will shift what we're interested in, who gets the loudspeaker, and
00:43:02it's cool.
00:43:03I think it's going to the right people.
00:43:04I think that makes sense. All right, we're going to shift back to a preparation process.
00:43:08Jeff, Godless was your first Western.
00:43:10What was the preparation process like?
00:43:12How long does it take to learn to ride a horse like that?
00:43:15I had to train for three months just because I had read the scripts and knew that I was galloping
00:43:20through rivers with one arm and all that.
00:43:22So I live in Michigan, so I got a rodeo guy who trains the county-mounted police guys.
00:43:29So he was a real guy.
00:43:30Right.
00:43:30Real guy.
00:43:31And so he got me so I could gallop and all of that.
00:43:35And it's, oh, you get the rhythm, and you're there, and you've got to look cool, and you've got to,
00:43:41it's all rhythm.
00:43:42And then you get there, and it's the Kentucky Derby.
00:43:45Oh, man.
00:43:46Wow.
00:43:46As the wranglers say, he's going to be energized.
00:43:50Yeah.
00:43:50That means we do 30 horses up and over the ridge.
00:43:57First, you're going up 15 feet and then 200 yards.
00:44:00Yeah.
00:44:01And they all think they're in the Kentucky Derby.
00:44:03He said the horses think they're in a race.
00:44:06So they're going.
00:44:07And we had one guy, first take, first day, first scene, first morning, flipped off the back.
00:44:13Bam.
00:44:14I got there.
00:44:15I hit the mark.
00:44:15I made it.
00:44:17And you can see the ambulance coming around from behind the cameras before they've said,
00:44:21cut.
00:44:22He's already concussion protocol because he said, yeah, I can ride.
00:44:26I can.
00:44:28And the last, the second to last day of shooting, fell off the horse, broke my wrist.
00:44:33Oh, no.
00:44:34Still broke.
00:44:35Broke.
00:44:36Broke.
00:44:36We have one more day of shooting.
00:44:39So I'm on morphine.
00:44:40I'm on morphine.
00:44:42That's how I act.
00:44:43And the morphine walk at 11 in the morning, 10 degree wind chill in the middle of New Mexico.
00:44:49And I'm sitting there, and the wrist is like a steak knife is in the back of it.
00:44:54And I also thought I tore my knee.
00:44:55So I was just standing on a mark, saying what I had to say on the last day of shooting
00:45:02with.
00:45:04But you're recommending riding.
00:45:05Yeah, exactly.
00:45:06You're really selling me on this.
00:45:08Yeah.
00:45:09Western is something to have done.
00:45:11Yeah.
00:45:12Something to have done.
00:45:13Yeah.
00:45:14But the prep is, yeah, if it's, I knew, I knew I had to prep hard on that.
00:45:19And because I did, I only broke a wrist.
00:45:23Everybody flew off the horses.
00:45:24Even the wranglers flew off.
00:45:26I mean, it happens.
00:45:27It's just a matter of time.
00:45:39Complete the sentence.
00:45:41I wish Hollywood would cast me as.
00:45:43I feel like if I say it, I jinx it.
00:45:45No, go on.
00:45:46I don't know.
00:45:48My goal is everything is a departure.
00:45:50Everything has to be a departure.
00:45:51So what would be the thing now?
00:45:52Honestly, get on a horse.
00:45:56And Armor Hour put me in a hat and a shot.
00:45:59I don't know.
00:46:18Partly because we've been able to not get, have to repeat ourselves constantly and have
00:46:23been given the opportunities to play different kinds of characters.
00:46:27Are there lanes that Hollywood seems to want you guys in?
00:46:30Same but different.
00:46:31Same but different.
00:46:32Same but different.
00:46:33No, no, no, no.
00:46:34Unfortunately, there are, I think, different lanes that different people want to see you
00:46:38in.
00:46:38Yeah.
00:46:38So if there's enough different people that want to see you in the lane they want to see
00:46:41you in, then you, you've got multiple lanes.
00:46:43Yeah.
00:46:43Yeah.
00:46:44I'm really enjoying being in this one specific lane, which is the audience's proxy, like sort
00:46:53of just a normal guy that gets to inhabit the center of the story and is your lens through
00:47:01which you are observing and experiencing this odd plot or group of people or scary guy or
00:47:08funny guy.
00:47:09I like to be us.
00:47:12And maybe that's, that's just an extension of my, my, my, my, my direction fascination
00:47:18right now.
00:47:19But I'm, I'm really enjoying that as opposed to playing a bunch of different characters
00:47:24and maybe, you know, two years, five years, 10 years, whatever that, that'll change.
00:47:27But that's, I'm digging that right now, having said that, Susie said, I said, I'd love to
00:47:31play a woman.
00:47:34It would be really, I, I, I would really enjoy it, but like in a, in a very real way.
00:47:39I mean, a Tootsie version of it would be pretty cool where there's, there's, there's a wink
00:47:44to it, but then there's also the plane lands every once in a while.
00:47:46And there's some real sort of introspection there.
00:47:49Um, not to suggest that that film needs to get redone, which it should never, but.
00:47:53But it will, because that's the world we're living in now.
00:47:55What about you?
00:47:56What would you, what would you, what would you, what would you, what would you.
00:47:57I was gonna sit over here ever since you asked that question, sitting there like, I don't
00:48:00know what it is.
00:48:01But, uh, I love animation.
00:48:02So I think being able to like, you know, voice a pretty dope animated character would be
00:48:07a lot of fun.
00:48:08I think that is so tough just to like bring through that emotion, you know, to sit in the,
00:48:13you know, in a studio and, and actually try to like, you know, embody the animated character.
00:48:19It's a trip because you're reliant on the animator down process to actually either match what
00:48:25you've done with your voice or, or go against it.
00:48:28It's, it's, it's, it's this teamwork that you are, you're, you're completely hands off
00:48:32as well.
00:48:32Yeah, what guys do you know.
00:48:33What about you, Matthew, who obviously just come off a, a very long run.
00:48:39Yeah, I'm trying to get back on stage, that's, that's another one.
00:48:43Are you?
00:48:43Yeah, yeah, maybe so, but, um, very specifically, for a long time, I've been trying to get a
00:48:52project made by the guy, you know, in L.A., the guy who gave Griffith Art to the animator
00:48:58story, he's talking to him.
00:48:59Yeah, it's a Welsh writer.
00:49:01It's a Welsh writer.
00:49:05You can't get it made?
00:49:06I'm trying to get it made.
00:49:06Okay.
00:49:07So, Hollywood, I'd like to hear it first.
00:49:09Hollywood, I'd like to get this one made.
00:49:11I just want to, I was literally just, I have to mention this, because just yesterday, I
00:49:15was telling my friends what I was doing, and my friend was like, ah, Jason, he's, he's
00:49:19just like a woman.
00:49:19He's, he's, no, but to answer the question of like, what you want to be cast as, I feel like
00:49:23every
00:49:23project is a constant negotiation between what you want, what you see yourself as against
00:49:29what people see, what people think you're capable of, and what you want them to know
00:49:32you're capable of.
00:49:33It's always this dance between what, how that launches off from the next project, and it's
00:49:38interesting that you are really, that you're aware of the way that you are perceived, and
00:49:44because yesterday he said, ah, Jason did, he's just like, you talked about Jimmy Stewart,
00:49:49and he's just the ultimate Jimmy Stewart straight man.
00:49:51He's like a 21st century straight man, and does it so well, and there's such variance,
00:49:56but he's always in that lane, and I was thinking like, I don't think you would appreciate it
00:50:00if that was said, if the fact that you're aware of that is something that you like.
00:50:04Very cool to me.
00:50:05I love it.
00:50:06I love it.
00:50:07Because without it, there's a lot of stuff that can't work, and I like just the responsibility
00:50:11of it.
00:50:12Um, okay, looking at the landscape of the last two films, TV, who's your favorite?
00:50:20One of your favorite performances, not yours.
00:50:24Well, you can't, you can't.
00:50:26Did you want to say your own?
00:50:27Well, I did, I get to work with my favorite actor of this, I'm counterpoint.
00:50:38I can think of the movie, but there were like a few different movies.
00:50:55That's right.
00:50:58That's right.
00:51:00That's right.
00:51:05And, uh, for a project.
00:51:16That's right.
00:51:17That's right.
00:51:18That's right.
00:51:18I'm looking forward, I'm going back to New York in Maine, and I'm looking forward to
00:51:22seeing Denzel .
00:51:23I'm looking forward to seeing a beautiful one if you didn't get a ship.
00:51:28This is a bad idea.
00:51:28I'm looking forward to seeing a beautiful one.
00:51:31So, these are things you don't want to hear.
00:51:33No, they aren't. That's not true.
00:51:35That's not true. That's okay.
00:51:37That works, too.
00:51:38If you're closer to the line, you can drive it.
00:51:43These are all of our arms.
00:51:46Is that what they say?
00:51:49No, we're not.
00:51:51We're not.
00:51:52The white force.
00:51:53The life of Reagan.
00:51:55Go.
00:51:56Go.
00:52:06I hope it's favorable.
00:52:09Yes.
00:52:10Yeah.
00:52:12I'm still thinking of performances that I like.
00:52:14This is the song.
00:52:16This is the song.
00:52:17Put it up.
00:52:26This is kind of fun.
00:52:33No we lay down.
00:52:35Tommy.
00:52:37Yeah.
00:52:38Hey, a little rat 연ar.
00:52:39This is natural.
00:52:44monkey.
00:52:45Hello.
00:52:46One time.
00:52:47There was no room for him to go.
00:52:52The people liked to have a influential
00:52:55He asked me how the appeal is of people.
00:52:58We don't vote every single day, every single episode,
00:53:01to say, to themselves, to themselves,
00:53:04to themselves, to themselves, to themselves,
00:53:06to themselves, to themselves, to themselves,
00:53:07to themselves.
00:53:07The whole whole whole story of the story of the story
00:53:38So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:53:41So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:54:12So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:54:54So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:54:55So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:55:13So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:55:19So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:55:35So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:55:48So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:55:53So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:56:23So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:56:26So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:56:34So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:56:43So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:57:01So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:57:23So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:57:33So that's the hardest place to go to work.
00:57:37and customer learning, so I feel like I've made a huge answer, but I've made all the right mistakes,
00:57:43and I'm feeling like everybody just wanted to stop the time to continue, but by re-routing,
00:57:50and I feel like all the things that I did, probably just about to do that,
00:57:53like all the, you know, by my careers and actors, so as I feel like that,
00:57:59I feel like the other result isn't an swipe, you decide to do that!
00:58:04I feel like the other thing is going to be another thing,
00:58:14an absolute failure, I'm going to be able to do this!
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