- 2 days ago
Director Jakob Verbruggen also joined the cast for a discussion with Awards Editor Rebecca Ford.
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:08Welcome to Closer Look with The Hollywood Reporter. I'm Rebecca Ford. I'm joined by
00:13the cast and executive producer of TNT's drama series, The Alienist. I'd like to welcome Dakota
00:19Fanning, Luke Evans, Daniel Bruhl, and Jakob Verbruggen. Thank you guys for joining us today.
00:25Thank you. We're gonna just dive right in and I'd love to start sort of at the beginning.
00:30What initially drew you to this project? What made you say, I really want to be a part of this?
00:38When I came on board, I think what drew me to the story was the timelessness of it. It's about
00:44a
00:45hunt on a serial killer in New York during the Gilded Age, 1896. We witness through Chrysler's
00:51character the birth of not only forensics, but also profiling the early stages of psychiatry.
00:58And what I mean with timelessness is that it's a story about class division. It's a story about
01:03immigration. It's about either embracing new ideas or being afraid of new ideas. And that's something
01:09I think that still, you know, matters today. So I think the timelessness for me personally.
01:14Yeah, I've always been drawn into darkness. So I always loved to read dark material since I was a
01:21teenager. So this gloomy world, 1896, and this gripping, thrilling story appealed to me at first.
01:29But then the combination to combine that with a history lesson, but a very entertaining one about
01:34New York at the time, where so much happened, was a fascinating mixture. So when I read the book,
01:40I wanted to do it. And for the two of you, maybe specifically why these characters were
01:45something you wanted to take on? I mean, looking back now, when you now we can look at this 10
01:50episodes as a whole box, you know, box set in a way and see the journeys that all our characters
01:55have gone on. I look at John and it's extraordinary. His arc is really quite something. And I sort of
02:01realized that from the book that, you know, this is a man who carries with him a lot of darkness
02:06from his past and suffers a lot with grief and loss and heartbreak and lack of purpose and struggling
02:14to find his feet in life. And I saw this wonderful journey I could go on. And I think the
02:20thing that
02:20I was intrigued by as an actor who hasn't done television like this was the opportunity to spend
02:2910 hours, you know, 10 episodes developing a character and not just his own journey, but his
02:36interaction and chemistry with the other characters within the story, spending seven months within a
02:42character, which is, which is a joy, you know, as we sometimes quite often at the end of a movie,
02:47you don't want to give up the character. You feel like you haven't lived in their skin long enough.
02:51And with this character, for me, that was the, the, the gift of, of having 10 episodes and the,
02:57the amount of time and the expanse of, of, uh, of storyline and depth that we, that we had,
03:03which was really enjoyable. Yeah. I think for me, Sarah Howard is, um, the thing that you would
03:08describe her as first as the first female to work for the New York police department. And so I was
03:14so
03:14intrigued by that description and excited by that. I think it's very rare to see a character like Sarah
03:20in a story set in this time period, just because of the restrictions that society had put upon women.
03:26And, and she was such a pioneer and kind of challenging those boundaries and those rules
03:32and confronting them. And I also was so kind of what we've all said. You think that
03:38something set in 1896 is so in the past and so different from our experience today. And of course,
03:45in so many ways it is, but I saw a lot of similarities between Sarah's story and the things that
03:50she comes
03:51up against to the things that we're really talking about now as women. And so I felt like there was
03:55a,
03:55a relevance and a modernity to her story that I felt like was exciting to bring to maybe a younger
04:02generation or a different audience. Beyond the book that this is based on, uh, Daniel and Luke,
04:07what kind of research did you do to sort of get to know these characters in this time period?
04:12Well, uh, in my case, uh, it was very handy to have a wife who's an alienist. So, uh, she
04:18supported
04:19me all the way through, especially in the beginning. She gave me a lot of stuff to read
04:23about the famous, um, psychologists, uh, in Austria at the time, Freud and Breuer and Jung.
04:29And there were very interesting references in their biographies that I always kept in mind in
04:35portraying Laszlo Kreisler, because there were a lot of similarities. And I wonder whether Caleb Carr
04:39was also inspired by their lives and their work. I'm sure he was also production delivered us with
04:46very precious material about New York. There, there was a very interesting read. I think that
04:50you gave me the Isle of Vice tells a lot about the corruption, about Roosevelt's commitment in
04:56fighting corruption at, at the time. I met a psychologist in, in Budapest. I never went to
05:01therapy myself. So it was funny to sit there and to talk to her. And it was a bit odd
05:05for her as well,
05:06because actually I was, you know, uh, studying her in studying me or analyzing me, which was,
05:12she said, I've never done this. It's a very awkward situation. And so that, yeah, that was my kind of
05:18preparation. I had the same book that, uh, that, uh, Jakob very kindly gave us. And, uh, that was a
05:23real insight into that side of, of the corruption of this island, you know, Manhattan Island. And at that
05:29period in 1896, there was a very extreme, uh, there was two extreme sides to the coin. There was
05:37the gilded age of New York city, the, the upper classes, there was very powerful, rich people
05:43living a very entitled life. But on the flip side was this underbelly in this very small part of New
05:50York city, the lower East side, which is where our story is often based, which I didn't know that much
05:54about. I mean, I was lucky enough. I shot a movie in New York a few years ago and I
05:57had a few days
05:58off and I said, what should I do? And somebody said, go to see the Tenement Museum. I'm quite glad
06:01I did
06:02because it actually informed me an awful lot about the, the, the time period in which the show is,
06:07is based. And I stumbled online. I mean, obviously the internet is a fantastic, you know, like
06:15smorgasbord of information. And, and that period was photographed quite heavily. And we have some
06:19amazing images, not images that are easy to look at sometimes, but really informed me massively about
06:26the desperation of the immigrants that lived in these tenement blocks and the streets in which
06:33they inhabited and the desperation and the dirt and the filth and the poverty and the lack of
06:37quality of life. Um, and there's a, there's a very famous book by Jacob Rees called how the other
06:44half lived Jacob Rees sort of opened Roosevelt's eyes to what was going on and that things needed
06:50to change. And, you know, he's, he's actually featured as a reporter in our, in our, in our show,
06:56as is Roosevelt and JP Morgan and the mayor of New York city and some of the gangsters. So that
07:01really
07:01helped me, especially my character, because as the story unfolds, he becomes quite drawn into the
07:08world, which he has very luckily not had to be part of in his life. And he's, he, you know,
07:13he interacts with these young children, these boys who have been forced into this, this dark
07:18side of, of, of life. And it really helped me because I, you know, we, and, and, and also I
07:23was
07:23very appreciative of the authenticity of how a presentation of that side of New York's life,
07:29because it really, you don't see it very often. And it really was a shocking place and it really
07:36helped more anyway, my, my John Moore to understand that world much more. And I know in the book,
07:41your character was originally a crime reporter and in the show, he's an illustrator.
07:46Jakob, maybe you could talk about any other changes that were made that you felt really
07:50improved it to be a series.
07:52Well, I think the book is told from Moore's point of view. I think that's the biggest change
07:56because we stayed quite close to the book, but if it's told from Moore's point of view,
08:00we don't have time to spend with Sarah by herself or Chrysler by himself. And I don't think
08:06looking for this moment of introspection, being able to allow the audience to spend time with
08:11Chrysler, contemplating, thinking, what is he feeling or spending time with Sarah as woman in a
08:17man's world, in a police station, I think is the biggest change we made.
08:21When it comes to your character, she's the first woman to work on the police force and we see her,
08:25you know, trying to find her voice. Do you relate to that? You know, I think that's a very timely
08:29subject where we're seeing what's going on in Hollywood and Time's Up. Did you find that
08:34especially something you related to and have you had to sort of fight for your own voice in your
08:39own career like that?
08:40Well, I think that, yes, we do see Sarah trying to find her voice in a way, but we also
08:45see her
08:45have her voice and it not be listened to. And I think that I was intrigued by that and seeing,
08:55you know, when we first meet her in the very first scene in the first episode, she comes off very
09:00strong and a little bit forceful. And, you know, it's made clear that she's not afraid to use her
09:08voice and to speak up and that she has, you know, thoughts and opinions that are valid. And then we
09:15also see the flip side of her facing harassment in the workplace and just, you know, it's not sugar
09:23coded by any means. You know, we see the struggles that she comes up against. I think for me, I
09:29don't have a problem using my voice either. And they're all laughing.
09:36So I'm happy about that and proud that I feel comfortable speaking up for myself and also very
09:42fortunate that I have really, truly worked with people who have been wonderful to me and supportive
09:48and true collaborators. And, but yeah, I think that Sarah definitely speaks to the conversation
09:57that's exploding. I mean, when we filmed this, that conversation hadn't exploded in the way that
10:02it has now. And it sort of happened right after we finished filming. And so, you know, as the show
10:09started airing, that became the first question that I was asked with regards to Sarah and the
10:15alienist. And, and so it's, it's definitely sparked hopefully positive conversation for the rest of
10:21you. What has the sort of moment we're in with times up opened your eyes to anything new about our
10:27industry and, and what it's been like for women over the past as these stories have come out?
10:33It's interesting to see how far we've come, but how little we've, we've come as well. You know,
10:40there's, there's still problems now that were a problem back in 1896, you know, and, um, it's, um,
10:46it's a very powerful moment, I think in our industry. And I think we'll never go back to the
10:51way it was. And I think that's a very refreshing thing. It's unified an awful lot of the industry in
10:57a positive way. And I think that's a, that it can only be looked at as a, as a good
11:01thing.
11:01When the three of you started out on this show, I assume you didn't know each other well or at
11:06all.
11:06Tell me about sort of the early days of shooting and, and did you have time to sort of bond
11:10together? Because I think all three of these characters have really interesting relationships
11:14with each other. So how did you sort of build to that?
11:17We knew each other, didn't we? A little bit. We'd met once or twice and I always got on very
11:22well with Daniel, even though I didn't know him that well, you know, I'd never met Dakota.
11:26And we, so we only knew of each other from the silver screen, but it was a, it was an
11:33immediate
11:33connection, isn't it? Which you can never anticipate. You're just hoping that it will
11:38be that way. But chemistry is a funny thing, you know, it either works or not. And then
11:42as actors, you can pretend that it's there, but it's so, such a relief when you realize
11:47that you don't have to force it. For seven months. Right. Yeah. But it's funny what Dakota
11:52said, because also in our private relationship, she took over. She was, she was leading us at
11:58the end of the shoot. Pretty much like in the show. Yeah. So true. She has a voice. Oh
12:03yeah. Art impersonating life. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's the chemistry between these
12:07three. That's one of the strengths of the series, I think. And I remember meeting Daniel
12:11for the first time in Berlin, Dakota, New York, and Luke in London. Yes. And I think I said
12:17a tone for an international cast that spread out overall the episodes of The Alienist that resembles
12:24the cultural melting pot that New York was and still is. So, yeah.
12:29Mm-hmm. Was there a specific moment on set when you realized, oh, this is really working?
12:34Whether it was a scene that they were all in together or?
12:36Well, I think the most important scene is their introduction to each other in front of
12:42Roosevelt's office. Yeah. I think. That was the first day.
12:44That was the first day. Correct. So I think that was the best way to start to have the three
12:48of them in a room introducing themselves to each other. Mm-hmm.
12:54But the nervousness before such a long shoot is huge, obviously. So I remember cold rehearsals
13:02that we did where the dead, a dead body was like a table, a coffee table or something.
13:06And we, and it all felt still. We were in our modern clothes and, you know, hardly knew
13:11each other. So I bet you and also we thought like, oh, how is it going to be? But then
13:16magically
13:17that first shooting day was, oh, when I went home, I thought like, oh, it's working. It's working.
13:22You know, I believe the world. It's such fun to work with these guys. You know, there's
13:27so much generosity between each other, you know.
13:30So there was a good vibe. It was a good first shooting day, you know. I hope for you too.
13:35Oh, no, definitely. And I think, well, having these talents, you know, doing what they're
13:38best at. But also, I think what helped the transformation were the amazing costumes created
13:43for us by Michael Kaplan and the amazing set design by Mario Lepere-Schlup, I think made
13:49it easy to enter this Gilded Age world of New York more than 100 years ago.
13:54So, yeah. And the subject matter is tough and, you know, it is a dark story. Was there
14:01ever anything that you, that maybe got changed or that was in the script and then you guys
14:06decided maybe this is too tough or felt like you had to change a little bit?
14:10Yeah. I mean, I guess for you guys to find the right balance in portraying that world of
14:15Paris's Hall to, you know.
14:17Yeah. Well, that was a very complicated and difficult.
14:19Absolutely. Because I think one of the unsung heroes of The Alienist are these boy prostitutes,
14:25the victim, the killer is, the victim is the killer is preying on. And the way we always
14:29thought about these boy prostitutes dressing up as girls was it's a way for them to potentially
14:34deal with trauma. If they dress up, put makeup on, it's like becoming a character. But it's
14:39only when the makeup goes off, when the clothes go off, and I think it's illustrated by Amor's
14:44character, we understand, and Daniel's character and Sarah's character, these are real children
14:49that are actually just looking for love and someone to take care of them. So I think it's
14:54also, it is about childhood and how that affects us.
14:58Powerful stuff.
14:59Luke, you sort of touched on the opportunity to spend, you know, seven months with a character
15:03and that opportunity. But were there any sort of negative parts to being involved with
15:09the project this long? Any challenges you maybe didn't expect when you are doing
15:13a character for seven months?
15:15I didn't find negatives. I think that the differences kind of came out as we continued
15:21because we started out filming the first three episodes, which Jakob directed, and you kind of
15:26get tricked into thinking that that's it. You know, your film brain. It's like, this is what
15:31we're working on, had all the scripts together. And then you get episode four and five, and you
15:36meet James Hawes, who's going to be the director, and Jakob's suddenly gone and in the editing
15:41room and you're working with another director. And then you get scripts for six and seven
15:44and you meet Paco Cabezas and he's the next director. And then as you continue, you're
15:49kind of jumping back and forth between different episodes and different directors, which means
15:53different energy and different styles. And then you have two separate units going at one
15:58time and you're hopping back and forth. And so that's when it started to feel different
16:03and to feel like more of a challenge and just keeping your place in terms of what's
16:08happened right before and what's happened right after. But I mean, to an extent that
16:13always happens towards the end of a shoot because you're finishing up and you're trying
16:16to make sure that you get everything. And, you know, you have kind of the one shot because
16:21it's a big cast and a big production. And so those differences came out, but I kind of
16:28enjoyed that challenge of having to really remember what was going on and kind of working
16:35with different directors. It was a new experience for me and it was, I ultimately really enjoyed
16:40it and liked it a lot.
16:42Most of the shoot I relied on, Dakota, to tell me where we were and what we were doing.
16:49We were doing episode eight later with David.
16:53She was so on top of it. It was almost freaky.
16:56I think my brain also just works that way. I'm a very kind of scheduled person, so I can
17:01kind of keep those things straight.
17:03Like even a lot.
17:04She even knew our lines.
17:05She knew our lines most of the time, yeah.
17:07What's the line?
17:11Brilliant person to have on set. Everyone should have a Dakota finance.
17:16It seems like you guys are able to have a really good time with each other. Did you find you
17:21were able to sort of leave the darkness of the work behind when it was the end of the
17:26day or the end of the week as time went on?
17:28Oh, yes.
17:29You have to, I think. I think with anything, I think it's good to be able to switch off.
17:35It allows your brain to just, you know, decompress. And when you're playing characters in such
17:41a dark subject matter as, you know, child murders and serial killers and all the other things
17:47that involve this story, you have to learn to be able to switch it off and allow yourself
17:53just to cleanse it. Cleanse the day away by, you know, just chilling out. And we were lucky
17:59because we got on and we were all away from home. We didn't have lots of friends with us.
18:04We were just, you know, we became friends and we hung out and we, you know, we'd sometimes
18:09talk about the day and then that would be done and then we'd go and have dinner.
18:13And we'd look forward to the next day and whatever that was going to present us with.
18:19I find that actors often pick up new skills on every project they work on, whether it's,
18:23you know, riding a horse or learning something they weren't aware of before.
18:27What did you all learn on this set specifically? Daniel, did you pick up anything you didn't
18:33know before, other than probably how hard your wife's job is?
18:36Yes. Indeed.
18:38Some Hungarian? Not even that.
18:40Some Hungarian.
18:41I forgot it already.
18:42I improved my typing skills.
18:44I learned how to sketch a little better.
18:47Actually, they gave me a wonderful tutor who came to my home a few times and brought all
18:54his paper and sketches and pencils and charcoal and I learned how to, you know, create this
18:59structure of a face where the ears and the eyes and the nose goes.
19:03Because when I did it without him, it looked like an alien.
19:05I was like, okay, well, I need some help here.
19:07But that was a nice thing because now I can, you know, I can work it out.
19:10I know exactly how to, you know, make the facial structure on a page, which was something
19:15I then did within a scene.
19:17Actually, twice I did it.
19:18You were drawn for real.
19:19I was drawn for real, yeah.
19:20Yeah, you were a stunt double for that.
19:24How else did you find you were changing your character as you sort of developed him over time?
19:29Did you have any new realizations about who this person was as time went on?
19:33Well, you go along with the story and thanks to the wonderful arc of the whole, you know, journey
19:42by nature, it became more and more intense.
19:45In my case, it was about opening up because this character is so brilliant in analyzing his
19:52environment and telling everybody what to think and, you know, ripping them apart.
19:58But when he is questioned and cornered, especially by Sarah Howard, you know, we see how vulnerable
20:04and how nervous he is and how hard it is for him to, you know, to be honest and to
20:10tell
20:10about his own, you know, demons and his traumatic childhood.
20:14That for me was, you know, a very interesting arc.
20:19I think that's why every episode was so enjoyable and the way, you know, it's been received so
20:25well is because you don't get bored of the characters.
20:27They never stay within their comfort zone.
20:30I mean, actually, none of them have comfort zones.
20:32That's what sort of makes us all sort of oddities and how we become a trio and how we become
20:37a team is also fascinating because we're very different and our personalities are different.
20:42And I think every episode you see our characters grow and sometimes recede and deal with something
20:49that sets them back.
20:51But they develop as human beings do.
20:53You know, most people learn from their mistakes or move on through life and we all gain something
20:59every episode.
21:00Our characters learn to gain something or broke down a boundary or dealt with something from
21:05their past, you know, all making them better people and trying to live better lives.
21:10And, you know, for my character was to find a purpose and to address all these demons and
21:17these addictions and all these past things in his life that had affected him so badly,
21:23which he was unaware of most of the time and also unwilling to address.
21:27But through the friendships and, you know, the connections he made with especially these
21:33two characters, as uncomfortable as it was for him, you know, he developed and I was quite
21:39proud of the character in the end because, you know, he's a much better person for it
21:43in episode 10 than he was at the beginning.
21:45I'd love to hear.
21:46I mean, there are a lot of tough scenes in here and I can imagine for you as actors there
21:50were probably a few challenging moments.
21:52But for all of you, what was sort of the most difficult scene throughout the series for
21:57you?
21:57There's a scene towards the end that's between me and Daniel where we kind of reveal the
22:04traumas of each of our past and kind of tell our stories to one another.
22:11And I loved doing that scene and was looking forward to it.
22:14But it was definitely felt like such a climax for both characters because there's been things
22:21that have been alluded to throughout, you know, nine episodes.
22:24And finally, in episode 10, those kind of questions that people have been, were answering
22:29the lingering questions about our characters.
22:31And so it definitely felt important.
22:35It wasn't that it was intimidating, but it was, it was, it's always interesting going into
22:40a scene that you know so much is reliant on.
22:43Um, but I, I think we were, it ended up working out very well and it was, you know, it's
22:51one
22:51of my favorite scenes because it's so, it's like what the, especially Sarah and, and, and
22:58Chrysler too, it's like their whole story has been leading up to sharing their stories
23:03with one another.
23:04And so it was really powerful and beautiful.
23:06And, um, so I was excited to do it, but also, you know, fingers crossed, kind of.
23:12It's a great scene.
23:13Yeah.
23:14Very tough one for me and it's not in the show.
23:16And I wonder why.
23:18It's me playing the French horn.
23:20And the piano.
23:21And the piano.
23:23We forced to go on choruses.
23:25And I don't, I don't know why it's not in the mood, but maybe we'll get.
23:28We're hinting to it.
23:29Well, we're hinting to it.
23:30Deleted scenes.
23:31That will be part of the deleted scenes.
23:32I've been practicing French horn for a couple of weeks.
23:35I wonder why it's not in the show.
23:40Jakob, was there a scene for you in those first three episodes that you were most, you
23:45found most challenging?
23:45Well, the biggest challenge was introducing the world to a new Priest's Hall, the boy
23:49brothel, because we were casting these boys, young boys, aged 12 to 24 in London.
23:55Some of them were dancers.
23:56Some of them were actors.
23:58Most of them had no experience.
24:00Didn't know each other.
24:01So in order to create this pack of wolves, of prostitute wolves, we had to bootcamp them.
24:07So we put them together, because they had to learn to walk on high heels, had to learn
24:11to seduce, had to get a hold of each other.
24:15So we sent them on bootcamp, had a choreographer working with them, and then tried to create
24:21this one big musical, like Rainshot, that introduces more to a new Priest's Hall.
24:27So that was quite an undertaking, but, yeah.
24:31And I know that this was obviously a limited series, but I also know there was another book
24:36in this series.
24:37Has there already been discussion about another season?
24:39Would you all come back to do it again?
24:43For sure.
24:44I mean, I would love to come back.
24:46Yeah.
24:47As you can tell, we all got on very well, and I think it was a very rewarding experience
24:51for all of us as actors and as a director.
24:54I think we're very proud of what we've created, and, you know, it was a limited series, and
25:00we've done the whole book, but if asked to go back, I think we'd all be quite happily
25:05say yes.
25:06And as TV, obviously, has become a wonderful playground for actors, I think, who may have
25:10done only film before, do you find yourselves more open to another series where you would
25:15be somewhere for seven months in the same character?
25:18Yeah.
25:18Totally.
25:19Yeah.
25:19Yeah.
25:19Absolutely.
25:20I like the consistency of that long of a shoot.
25:24I actually liked that.
25:25I think as an actor, you're kind of all over the place and don't know what's coming next
25:28a lot of the time, and I liked knowing that this is what I was working on for these months,
25:34and this was the character.
25:35It was kind of like I had one, personally, I just had one responsibility, and it was to,
25:41you know, being a part of this series and playing Sarah, and I really liked that.
25:47So I would welcome that experience again in some way.
25:49Are there other shows that you currently love on television that you wouldn't mind
25:54being a part of?
25:55Well, I love The Handmaid's Tale.
25:57Oh, yeah.
25:58It's my favorite.
25:58It's been one of my favorite books for a long time.
26:01I read it in high school.
26:02So I'm a big fan of, big fan of that, for sure.
26:05I love The Crown.
26:07Yes.
26:07I'm not British, so.
26:10I wouldn't mind admitting Mad Men or Hand Breaking Bad.
26:15I would have made such brilliant shows that left their mark, which is a nice thing.
26:20One lighter question here.
26:21When you were on set and you, you know, needed to shed the dark day, what are some of your
26:27tricks to lightening up the mood when it was time to feel a little lighter?
26:32Well, one of us always started singing.
26:35I wonder who.
26:38Any particular songs?
26:40Anything.
26:41Anything or everything?
26:42Anything that was in my head at the time.
26:44Sometimes we even sang together.
26:46We did sometimes sing together, yes.
26:48And that, yeah, given enough time, I can get anyone to sing.
26:54How much time do you have?
26:55Do you want to do it right now?
26:56I only need a couple of minutes, usually.
26:58Some tequila.
26:59And some tequila.
27:00Aperol spreads, I think, always loosens the, you know, lightens the load.
27:04Thank you so much for joining us, and be sure to catch The Alienist on TNT.
27:09Thank you so much for joining us, and be sure to catch The Alienist on TNT.
Comments