00:08Bruno Le Maire, thank you so much for joining us.
00:10You are France's longest-serving finance minister.
00:13You were at the G7 in 2019, and you know exactly how this machine works.
00:19I want to ask you to kick off.
00:21There is a joint declaration.
00:22It was not clear that there would be one, but there is a joint declaration, certainly on Ukraine.
00:28What do you make of it?
00:28I think that the final declaration of the G7 countries is a very strong and a very good one.
00:36All the points that we have on Ukraine are really significant and show a full support of G7 countries to
00:45Ukraine and to the opposition to the Russian attack.
00:49The fact that G7 countries seem to be able and ready to provide long-range missiles to Ukraine is quite
00:58good news.
00:59The fact that the United States of America stand ready to trigger new economic sanctions against Russia is also good
01:09news to put that war to an end, to a ceasefire, and to really put a limit to Vladimir Putin.
01:17I also think that on the global imbalances, France and Macron were right to underline that these global imbalances between
01:27the US, Europe, and China are not for the benefit of all the countries in the world and must be
01:33changed.
01:34I don't want to spend too much time on President Trump, but he is going to a dinner in Versailles.
01:39Was that a step needed in terms of diplomacy to get this deal done?
01:43You know, we all are aware of the difficulties that we are facing, the relationship between Europe and the US.
01:52I was personally very critical against the deal that was made between the United States and Iran, because to me
02:00this is a fake deal.
02:01But I think that this is in the global interest of all G7 members to stand united to face the
02:08challenges of the 21st century, especially the question of economic imbalances with China.
02:14And you say this is a fake deal. Why is that? The Europeans have welcomed that as a breakthrough.
02:19In fact, they salute, and that's a quote, the strong leadership of the president of the US. Is this really
02:24a good deal?
02:24No, it's not a good deal. And I disagree on that point. I would use the title of a famous
02:31play, which is Much Ado About Nothing.
02:35The United States decided to trigger the war against Iran. And I think that after the deal, Iran is stronger
02:43than before the war.
02:45You still have these uncertainties about the future of the Strait of Hormuz. Will there be a toll or not
02:51on the Strait of Hormuz?
02:52You don't have very strong solutions, and you are not addressing the key question of fissile materials.
02:59There are only words, but there are not very strong technical commitments on the fissile materials,
03:04and on the best way to prevent Iran to get access to the nuclear weapon, which is the absolute key
03:10and the absolute worry of all countries around the world.
03:14How do we do to prevent Iran to get access to the nuclear weapon?
03:18And the third question, which is not addressed in the deal, is the long-range ballistic missiles capacities of Iran.
03:27You know that the southern part of Europe could be hit at some point by those missiles.
03:33Not addressing the threat posed by the Iranian missiles is, to me, a mistake and could be a threat on
03:42the long term.
03:42So, did the Europeans make a mistake by basically endorsing that deal in the statement?
03:48Well, having a deal is always better to have a war.
03:52But we must be lucid that this month of war have reinforced the Iranian regime and reinforced Iran in the
04:02region.
04:02It was not exactly the strategic purpose of that war.
04:06So, to me, this is a failure, and I think that the European countries do have a key role to
04:11play
04:12to reinforce the commitment of Iran vis-à-vis the nuclear weapons, vis-à-vis the missile threat,
04:19and also vis-à-vis the question, the key question from an economic point of view, of the Strait of
04:24Hormuz.
04:24And, Mr. Le Maire, in a broader line, you have said at times that the way that Trump negotiates,
04:29and you've seen it firsthand because you were involved directly in those talks, is sometimes and oftentimes brutal.
04:36Is this G7 a moment of reconciliation, or would you say, ultimately, Trump has not changed,
04:42the Europeans need to push for their own interests?
04:45I think that the single lesson that all the European leaders must draw from the past month,
04:52and I would say from the past two years, is that if they want to be relevant and strong,
04:58they need to be united.
05:00And they don't need to be united with the 27 member states.
05:04They need to give a new impetus to the European construction by building a European with six core countries,
05:11France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, and the Netherlands.
05:15They should put on the table some key issues on which they want to deliver
05:19either the question of Iran or the question of Ukraine or the question of building chips capacities on the European
05:27soil
05:27or the question of energy and nuclear energy.
05:31Six countries instead of 27 countries is the best way of reinforcing Europe,
05:37of facing the threats posed by many empires around the world and to get some concrete results.
05:43You know, we cannot accept any more to be blackmailed by the U.S. administration.
05:50The way President Trump and the U.S. administration is explaining,
05:53well, you should get rid of the taxation of Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Microsoft.
05:59Otherwise, I will hit you with new tariffs is 100% unacceptable among allies.
06:07So if we want to resist that kind of threat and that kind of blackmail, we need to be united.
06:14The six strongest European member states must stand united.
06:20So you're saying that blackmail will remain, but you make a strong statement there.
06:24You say Europe, forget about unity at 27, go to six countries. How would that work?
06:29You know, 27 countries means long talks and very few decisions.
06:38We need strong decisions and less talks.
06:41This is why I really emphasize the necessity to move towards a Europe with six core countries
06:48and then the 21 other member states, if they want to join, they will join.
06:51But first of all, let's move on.
06:53Second, the way the U.S. are dealing with Europe is not acceptable.
07:00The way they are putting this question of tariffs and this threat of new tariffs against French wines
07:08or German automobile industry is something we cannot accept.
07:13But if we are divided, you cannot resist that pressure.
07:17If you stand united explaining that it will be difficult for the U.S. to get access to the European
07:22market
07:22if they do not respect Europe as a partner, it is the best way of getting some concrete results.
07:29And I want to ask you a final question, but I want to pick up on this point
07:32because you're pitching now a Europe that would work at six.
07:35Is there political consensus to do that?
07:38And I say that because your own country is heading into a very polarizing election next year.
07:43Next year you will have key elections.
07:45So I think it's time, 11 months before the national elections in France,
07:51to clearly explain to the fresh people what we want for the future of Europe.
07:55Either we stand with a decision-making process with 27 member states, the commission,
08:02we do not really know who is responsible for what.
08:05And you cannot get results on key issues like artificial intelligence, the cloud capacities
08:14and the production of semiconductors on the European soil just to speak about tech.
08:19Or you explain to the French people, well, we want to come back to a Europe which is a core
08:26Europe
08:27with six key countries that will be able to deliver concretely on some very specific topics.
08:35And you will give the sense that Europe can be efficient, that Europe can deliver,
08:41that you can get some concrete results and that standing united,
08:46you have the possibility of bridging the gap with China, bridging the gap with the US
08:52and resisting the pressure of those countries.
08:57This is why I really think that it's time to radically change the way Europe has been constructed.
09:04And sir, just as a final point, you mentioned economic imbalances.
09:08That is a code now for clearly China.
09:10The way things are going, it seems to me a trade war between the EU and China
09:15is inevitable and maybe even necessary.
09:18How do you deal with a power like China?
09:20Well, of course, we should avoid any kind of trade war with China.
09:24But we must be respected by the Chinese government and by President Xi Jinping,
09:30which means that you must explain to China, being once again united, the six key countries,
09:37that China cannot get access to the single market without taking some decisions
09:44and without abiding by rules.
09:46The first one is that if there has been some heavy public subsidies to one or two sectors,
09:53like the automotive industry, China will have to pay to sell its cars on the European soil
10:00and in the single market.
10:01Second, we must put in place a rule of European content,
10:05and the real rule of European content, not the one extended to 90 other countries,
10:09but a rule of European content limited to the single market and to the European producers.
10:16Third, we need a transfer of technologies.
10:19And we need to explain to our Chinese partner that it is time for us to get access to some
10:25technologies
10:25that we urgently need to improve our productivity and our competitiveness.
10:30In the field of batteries, for instance, electric batteries, we need the technologies of China
10:37and we need the cooperation of China.
10:39So the deal would be you can get access to the European single market with the 450 million consumers,
10:48but under some conditions, European content, transfer of technologies and tariffs,
10:56in the case a sector has been heavily subsidized by the Chinese government.
11:00This is what I would call a new level playing field between China and Europe.
11:06A very last point, but which is absolutely key, that must be addressed at the level of the G7
11:12with the United States, Europe and all the Western countries,
11:16is the fact that the Chinese currency is underestimated and underrated.
11:25This poses huge problems for the competitiveness of the European and the US industries.
11:32So we must address this question of the level of the Chinese currency
11:36and the fact that for the time being, it is under-evaluated and it gives to China
11:43the possibility of exporting far quicker and far better its products to either the US or to Europe.
11:50So a new level playing field.
11:51Mr. Le Maire, thank you so much for joining us on this important G7.
11:55Thank you very much.
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