- 2 days ago
In this conversation with HousingWire’s Allison LaForgia, Ryan Barrus, National Director of Sales at Acra Lending, reflected on the transformation of the non-QM lending market, the importance of trust-based broker relationships and why loan officers who think proactively are finding success with today’s increasingly complex borrowers.
Barrus began by sharing his path into the industry and the lessons that shaped his leadership philosophy. “When I started, it was a much different landscape. Non-QM had not been really well established. Most people hadn’t heard of it. There were a lot of skeptics,” he said.
He credited mentors who taught him that leadership starts with earning trust. “They gave me the guidance of, ‘you really need to lead from the front and establish a followship’. Nobody’s going to follow you if you’re not doing things that are enviable or noteworthy.”
After speaking with thousands of loan officers over the years, Barrus said one theme consistently stood out. “The recurring theme that I always got from them is trust. They need to trust their lender. It’s not so much about rate or program. It’s ‘Can I trust you?’ This is an important relationship with my realtor partner.”
Barrus began by sharing his path into the industry and the lessons that shaped his leadership philosophy. “When I started, it was a much different landscape. Non-QM had not been really well established. Most people hadn’t heard of it. There were a lot of skeptics,” he said.
He credited mentors who taught him that leadership starts with earning trust. “They gave me the guidance of, ‘you really need to lead from the front and establish a followship’. Nobody’s going to follow you if you’re not doing things that are enviable or noteworthy.”
After speaking with thousands of loan officers over the years, Barrus said one theme consistently stood out. “The recurring theme that I always got from them is trust. They need to trust their lender. It’s not so much about rate or program. It’s ‘Can I trust you?’ This is an important relationship with my realtor partner.”
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NewsTranscript
00:02I'm Alison LaVorgia and today I'm sitting down with Ryan Barris, the National Director of Sales
00:07at AcroLending. Ryan, thank you for joining me today. Thanks for having me, Alison. Ryan, I want
00:11to start with you walking us through your journey in the mortgage industry and what shaped your
00:16leadership approach at AcroLending, specifically in the non-agency space? So I started here back
00:22in 2014. So I just celebrated my 12 year anniversary about a month ago. And when I started,
00:29it was a much different landscape. Non-QM had not been really well established. Most people hadn't
00:35heard of it. There was a lot of skeptics. I'm here in the great state of Utah. There's home to
00:40a lot of,
00:41you know, large regional and some national mortgage lenders that I got to talk to. And
00:46they took some convincing to get on board. And I was really lucky to have a lot of great mentors,
00:53Dan Pearl, Keith Lind, then Greg Newell and Sean Stone later on. But early in my career,
00:57they basically said, you know, I had some ambitions in the space where I wanted to
01:03grow my career path. And they gave me the guidance of, you really need to lead from the front and
01:09and establish a followship, right? Nobody's going to follow you if you're not doing things that are
01:14enviable or, you know, noteworthy. And the thing, you know, non-QM is different than agency. And I've
01:22I've talked to thousands and thousands of loan officers over the last 12 years.
01:26And the reoccurring theme that I always got from them of like, what's important to them is trust.
01:31Like they need to trust their lender. It's not so much about rate or, or, or program. It's,
01:36can I trust you? Right? Like this is an important relationship with my realtor partner. This loan is
01:41for my brother or whatever it is. I need to be able to trust you. And so that really formed
01:45how I looked at
01:46our customer service, you know, we live and die by our broker relationships. And so as I've grown
01:52with the organization, I've already, I've always really focused on like fostering an environment
01:57that builds trust between our folks. And we have amazing people, but we can always get better.
02:03And just looking at how can we get our customers to trust us with, with more and more of their,
02:08of their business.
02:09Ryan, you mentioned a little bit about when you first started and what non-QM was. In the past,
02:16many industry professionals have viewed non-QM as that save the deal emergency option after agency
02:23financing was no longer a viable option. From your perspective, what has changed in the market that
02:29makes that mindset outdated today?
02:31So it's so funny that you mentioned like save the deal because 10 or 12 years ago, it was literally
02:37that you would call them and say, Hey, you know, I'm Ryan at Acura. How can I help you? And
02:42they'll
02:42be like, I don't know what you do. And so then we would say, do you have any deals you
02:47need help with,
02:47right? That we can save. And that's how we formed a lot of relationships with like,
02:50before they originated non-QM was just saving their agency fallout.
02:55That is outdated for a couple of reasons. Historically, non-QM volume was like a rounding error.
03:02I think back in 2014, we looked at numbers the other day and we did like 12 million a month
03:07back then, which is a nothing right number. And that's moved up. I think in 2025 to 9%, we show
03:14that
03:15between maybe 15 and 16% this year and that growth continued to happen. So if let's say two out
03:21of
03:21every 10 deals that come across your desk are non-QM, you may not need to be like the expert
03:26in non-QM,
03:27but you need to have a good working knowledge of like what's out there, right? Foreign nationals,
03:31condo hotels, short-term rentals, that kind of stuff you don't maybe see every day,
03:35but need to know where you can place it. And it's also really outdated because
03:40non-QM is available in all interest rate environments. So we as a company had a record
03:46month in April. And as many of you know, right? It's not been a historically low rate environment.
03:52So that non-QM business keeps growing despite the interest rate environment.
03:56And that's a really great consistent deal base for our loan officers to have.
04:03You just mentioned that deal base and the importance of structuring deals.
04:09When you look at structuring deals proactively, instead of reacting to problems that might occur
04:14later in a process, what separates brokers who consistently succeed with more complex borrowers
04:21from those who struggle with fallout and maybe late stage pivots?
04:26They originate, I would say they originate to non-QM and they have a plan A and plan B instantly,
04:33right? So they take in, typically it's going to be W2s, you know, tax returns, that kind of thing.
04:39The best loan officers look at those tax returns and go, you know, your CPA did a great job, but
04:44you did
04:45not show nearly enough income for the house you want to buy or whatever it is.
04:50And they already know that there are options, right? And this is day one. They didn't have
04:53to send it to their underwriter and be told no. They're immediately on the phone with us going,
04:57hey, I'm uploading my bank statements. I need you guys to calculate income. Can you get a rush on it
05:01for us? Or, hey, I just got this appraisal. It's a mixed use property. Day one, I'm going to upload
05:07that to your portal. I want you guys to look at it. So education makes like a huge difference.
05:13And just knowing what's available, we recently had a file come in, actually funded last month.
05:19And I think the guy was an ITIN borrower and I think he owned like 15 businesses. And so we
05:25get
05:25the call like, hey, will you look at 15 sets of bank statements? The answer to that is maybe. We
05:30would
05:30prefer not to, right? But it turns out we only needed two. I can't remember all the businesses he owned,
05:35but two of them were like countertop businesses, like granite countertops. And he was running like
05:39$100,000 a month through there. So we just took two of those. And I think that deal closed in
05:44like
05:44three weeks, but it's because the loan officer recognized on day one, these tax returns are not
05:48going to work and got the bank statements, got them uploaded to us. And yeah, I think it was like
05:53a
05:53three week close. So really being proactive in the non-QM origination from the first moment you speak to
05:59that client will really dictate your ultimate success and turn times on having a successful deal.
06:06I think it's a great point that you raised because there are a fair number of borrowers today that
06:11don't fit neatly into traditional lending boxes, especially self-employed borrowers, real estate
06:17investors, and buyers with more complex financial profiles. How should mortgage professionals rethink
06:23that first conversation that they're having with these clients? So I think about that as digging
06:29really deep upfront to have the best possible outcome. I would say most of our most successful
06:35broker partners are not selling a rate. They're selling a solution, right? And everyone wants the
06:39best rate, et cetera, but you're really selling a solution. The rate doesn't matter if you don't get
06:42the deal done. So getting a full picture of what the borrower wants from the jump, right? Some borrowers are
06:49building a portfolio of properties. That's their goal. With all the DSCR volume that is being done,
06:56nobody needs your income documentation anymore. That doesn't matter. Understanding that up front,
07:01you can say, they can say to that borrower, hey, get with your realtor. This rent survey is really what
07:05we're looking at in qualifying. Have your agent show you homes that will rent for higher versus lower,
07:10you know, for the same, for the same price range and really go beyond tax returns, right? So to get
07:15a full
07:15picture, what do you have in assets? What do your bank statements look like? How much do you cash
07:19flow? We had, we had actually a recent deal in park city just up, just around the corner from here
07:26where the borrower is buying a condo tell as a primary residence, which is not that common.
07:32And their in-house underwriting was having nothing to do with it. And there was too many tax return
07:36issues that they were having. But it turns out this borrower had like $3 million in a brokerage account.
07:42That's all we needed. So they had multiple sets of tax returns. We didn't need any of those. We just
07:46needed a copy of the brokerage account. There's no DTI. It's called an ATR in full loan. And those
07:50asset depletion ATR in full loans have grown in popularity over the last few years. There may
07:55be the simplest loans on earth. The client was thrilled. And, you know, I want to address
08:00something too of like, there's a, there has been a notion that like non-QM rates are like really high.
08:07They're fantastic right now. Historically speaking. So spreads used to be like 200 basis
08:11points higher than agency. Um, and that spreads become much thinner. So I, you know, I was looking
08:15earlier, I think the average rate was six and a half, 6.56 last week for a 30 year.
08:20We've got rates that are half a point below that now. So just because it's alternate doesn't
08:24necessarily mean it's a higher rate. You get people buying, you know, multimillion dollar condo tells
08:29they're, they're also rate conscious, but solutions can be had. Um, and, and that was all done because
08:34the loan officer asked a lot of questions up front and we got a complete asset picture. So those questions
08:39can make a big difference. Let's delve into that a little bit more because I think it highlights
08:44a really important point that brokers don't necessarily need to know every niche product.
08:50If they have the right lending partner, what does a strong broker lender relationship look like in
08:56practice, especially when you're navigating some of the complex scenarios that you've mentioned?
09:00That's such an important piece of it. So I think about it as a true partnership,
09:05right? Like we don't exist without our customers and sure we get transactional transactions, if you
09:11will, like one company sending us one loan, but what we really want is to be a partner with you.
09:16Um,
09:16one of my best brokers for years, his name was John Joyce out in the Bay area. We would talk
09:22every single day, um, maybe for just a minute or two, but really driving that relationship of we love
09:27being your partner. We love having a loyal relationship and that will really matter. Like people
09:32think, Oh, you're accurate. You're one of the biggest non-QM originators in the country.
09:36It's true, but we still value the loyalty. So if we get a deal in that maybe we're kind of
09:40borderline on, right? Like this is a mixed use property that we don't really think we're going to
09:43make a ton on or any, um, if we go back and look and we go, yeah, but this relationship
09:48with this
09:48broker we've done deal after deal after deal, they send us all their business that will definitely
09:53influence our decision. So like the, the, the loyalty and the relationship really matters.
09:57Um, and yeah, I mean, our loan officers are incredible. They know, you know, VA, USDA,
10:03FHA, all this stuff to add on everything about non-QM on top of that would be almost impossible,
10:09even though many of them are brilliant, just because it changes, right? It can change from
10:12week to week. Acra sells, you know, hundreds of millions at a consistent basis. So we really have
10:18our pulse, our finger on that pulse of what, what can be done. Um, so my advice would be really
10:23to
10:23find a wholesale partner that, you know, going back to the trust thing and the relationship thing,
10:27that you trust and, you know, that you call them early and often, um, to get our help,
10:32right? We can help you. This is all we do. So, you know, don't be afraid to reach out,
10:35even if it's a nine o'clock on a Friday, shoot, shoot us a text. We'll help you out.
10:39Now, Ryan, looking ahead, where do you see the biggest growth opportunities for non-QM over the
10:45next few years? And what advice would you give brokers who want to position themselves ahead of
10:50the market instead of chasing it? So I'm really excited. Um, the entire non-QM space is going to keep
10:56growing. Um, there's basically an unlimited demand for the kind of paper that we're producing,
11:01right? Whether it's whole loan sales or, or, or securitization. Um, operationally,
11:07you know, I think I'm not an AI, um, expert, but you will see AI involved in underwriting and
11:14appraisal review times. And I am really excited for what that will do for, for turn times. I mean,
11:20right now you can walk into a, a Ferrari dealership and you can finance a $400,000 car and be
11:26out,
11:26out the door and maybe, you know, 90 minutes. I don't, I don't know that that's my advice that
11:30you should do that, but you could, right. Um, there's no reason a $400,000 home purchase
11:35should be any different, right? Like we have to respect trading the Cohen, those kinds of things,
11:38but there's so much opportunity for improved efficiencies that I'm really excited about.
11:42Um, as far as getting ahead of it, really leveraging your relationship with your account
11:46executive to drive your business, to be that one-stop shop, you know, the realtors out here
11:51don't want to send you the eight deals you can do, and then send the other two four national condo
11:56tells to somebody else. They want to just work with you and your AE can really see, um, the production
12:02nationally, and they can also help their loan officers say, here's what I'm seeing working
12:06right now. So, you know, in addition to realtors, we've got a lot of really successful, uh, loan
12:11officers that partner with CPAs who see tons of self-employed borrowers,
12:15wealth planners who have folks that have a lot of assets. And then maybe one of the more surprising
12:20ones is like regional banks, regional banks have a lot of turndowns, right? And where are they going
12:25to go with those? And some of our most successful loan officers partner with those. So I would say
12:28really getting with your account executive and understanding that they really want to help
12:33you grow in every possible way, um, to get more of that market because you know, the non-QM market
12:39just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Ryan, thank you so much for sitting down with me and letting me pick
12:44your brain about what's going on in the non-agency space. It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
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