- 2 days ago
In this conversation with HousingWire’s Allison LaForgia, Ryan Barrus, National Director of Sales at Acra Lending, reflected on the transformation of the non-QM lending market, the importance of trust-based broker relationships and why loan officers who think proactively are finding success with today’s increasingly complex borrowers.
Barrus began by sharing his path into the industry and the lessons that shaped his leadership philosophy. “When I started, it was a much different landscape. Non-QM had not been really well established. Most people hadn’t heard of it. There were a lot of skeptics,” he said.
He credited mentors who taught him that leadership starts with earning trust. “They gave me the guidance of, ‘you really need to lead from the front and establish a followship’. Nobody’s going to follow you if you’re not doing things that are enviable or noteworthy.”
After speaking with thousands of loan officers over the years, Barrus said one theme consistently stood out. “The recurring theme that I always got from them is trust. They need to trust their lender. It’s not so much about rate or program. It’s ‘Can I trust you?’ This is an important relationship with my realtor partner.”
Barrus began by sharing his path into the industry and the lessons that shaped his leadership philosophy. “When I started, it was a much different landscape. Non-QM had not been really well established. Most people hadn’t heard of it. There were a lot of skeptics,” he said.
He credited mentors who taught him that leadership starts with earning trust. “They gave me the guidance of, ‘you really need to lead from the front and establish a followship’. Nobody’s going to follow you if you’re not doing things that are enviable or noteworthy.”
After speaking with thousands of loan officers over the years, Barrus said one theme consistently stood out. “The recurring theme that I always got from them is trust. They need to trust their lender. It’s not so much about rate or program. It’s ‘Can I trust you?’ This is an important relationship with my realtor partner.”
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LearningTranscript
00:02I'm Alison LaVorgia and today I'm sitting down with Ryan Barris, the National Director of Sales
00:07at AcroLending. Ryan, thank you for joining me today. Thanks for having me, Alison. Ryan, I want
00:11to start with you walking us through your journey in the mortgage industry and what shaped your
00:16leadership approach at AcroLending, specifically in the non-agency space. So I started here back
00:22in 2014. So I just celebrated my 12 year anniversary about a month ago. And when I started, it was
00:29a
00:29much different landscape. Non-QM had not been really well established. Most people hadn't heard
00:35of it. There was a lot of skeptics. I'm here in the great state of Utah. There's home to a
00:40lot of,
00:41you know, large regional and some national mortgage lenders that I got to talk to.
00:46And they took some convincing to get on board. And I was really lucky to have a lot of great
00:52mentors, Dan Pearl, Keith Lind, then Greg Newell and Sean Stone later on. But early in my career,
00:57they basically said, you know, I had some ambitions in the space where I wanted to
01:03grow my career path. And they gave me the guidance of, you really need to lead from the front and
01:09and establish a follow ship, right? Nobody's going to follow you if you're not doing things that are
01:14enviable or, you know, noteworthy. And the thing, you know, non-QM is different than agency. And I've
01:21been, I've talked to thousands and thousands of loan officers over the last 12 years.
01:26And the reoccurring theme that I always got from them of like, what's important to them is trust.
01:31Like they need to trust their lender. It's not so much about rate or, or, or program it's,
01:36can I trust you? Right? Like this is an important relationship with my realtor partner. This loan is
01:41for my brother or whatever it is. I need to be able to trust you. And so that really formed
01:45how I looked at
01:46our customer service, you know, we live and die by our broker relationships. And so as I've grown
01:52with the organization, I've already, I've always really focused on like fostering an environment
01:57that builds trust between our folks. And we have amazing people, but we can always get better.
02:03And, and just looking at how can we get our customers to trust us with, with more and more of
02:08their, of their business. Ryan, you mentioned a little bit about when you first started and
02:13what non-QM was in the past, many industry professionals have viewed non-QM as that
02:19save the deal emergency option after agency financing was no longer a viable option.
02:26From your perspective, what has changed in the market that makes that mindset outdated today?
02:31So it's so funny that you mentioned like save the deal because 10 or 12 years ago,
02:36it was literally that you would call them and say, Hey, you know,
02:40I'm Ryan at Acura. How can I help you? And they'll be like, I don't know what you do.
02:44And so then we would say, do you have any deals you need help with, right? That we can save.
02:48And
02:48that's how we formed a lot of relationships with like before they originated non-QM was just saving
02:53their agency fallout. That is outdated for a couple of reasons. Historically, non-QM volume was like a
03:02rounding error. I think back in 2014, we looked at numbers the other day and we did like 12 million
03:06a month
03:07back then, which is a nothing right number. And that's moved up. I think in 2025 to 9%,
03:14we show that between maybe 15 and 16% this year and that growth continuing to happen. So
03:20if let's say two out of every 10 deals that come across your desk are non-QM,
03:24you may not need to be like the expert in non-QM, but you need to have a good working
03:28knowledge of
03:28like what's out there, right? Foreign nationals, condo tells, short-term rentals, that kind of stuff.
03:33You don't maybe see every day, but need to know where you can place it. And it's also really outdated
03:39because non-QM is available in all interest rate environments. So we as a company had a record month
03:47in April. And as many of you know, right? It's not been a historically low rate environment. So that
03:53non-QM business keeps growing despite the interest rate environment. And that's a really great,
03:58consistent deal base for our loan officers to have.
04:03You just mentioned that deal base and the importance of structuring deals.
04:09When you look at structuring deals proactively, instead of reacting to problems that might occur
04:14later in a process, what separates brokers who consistently succeed with more complex borrowers
04:21from those who struggle with fallout and maybe late stage pivots?
04:25They originate, I would say they originate to non-QM and they have a plan A and plan B instantly,
04:33right? So they take in, typically it's going to be W-2s, you know, tax returns, that kind of thing.
04:39The best loan officers look at those tax returns and go, you know, your CPA did a great job,
04:44but you did not, right? Show nearly enough income for the house you want to buy or whatever it is.
04:50And they already know that there are options, right? And this is day one. They didn't have to send it
04:54to their underwriter and be told no. They're immediately on the phone with us going,
04:57hey, I'm uploading my bank statements. I need you guys to calculate income. Can you get a rush on it
05:01for us? Or, hey, I just got this appraisal. It's a mixed use property. Day one, I'm going to upload
05:07that to your portal. I want you guys to look at it. So education makes like a huge difference.
05:12Um, and just knowing what's available. Um, we recently had a file come in actually funded last
05:19month. And I think the guy was an item borrower and I think he owned like 15 businesses. And so
05:25we get
05:25the call like, Hey, will you look at 15 sets of bank statements? The answer to that is maybe we
05:30would
05:30prefer not to. Right. But it turns out we only needed two. He, I can't remember all the businesses
05:34he owned, but two of them were like countertop businesses, like granite countertops. And he was
05:38running like a hundred thousand dollars a month through there. So we just took two of those.
05:42And, and I think that deal closed in like three weeks, but it's because the loan officer recognized
05:46on day one, these tax returns are not going to work and got the bank, got the bank statements,
05:51got them uploaded to us. And yeah, I think it was like a three week close. So really being proactive
05:56in the non QM origination from the first moment you speak to that client will really, you know,
06:01dictate your ultimate success and, you know, turn times on having a successful deal.
06:06I think it's a great point that you raised because there are a fair number of borrowers
06:11today that don't fit neatly into traditional lending boxes, especially self-employed borrowers,
06:17real estate investors, and buyers with more complex financial profiles. How should mortgage
06:22professionals rethink that first conversation that they're having with these clients?
06:27So I think about that as digging really deep upfront to have the best possible outcome.
06:33I would say most of our most successful broker partners are not selling a rate. They're selling
06:37a solution, right? And everyone wants the best rate, et cetera, but you're really selling a solution.
06:41The rate doesn't matter if you don't get the deal done. So getting a full picture of what the borrower
06:46wants from the jump, right? Some borrowers are building a portfolio of properties. That's their goal.
06:53With all the DSCR volume that is being done, nobody needs your income documentation anymore. That doesn't
06:59matter. Understanding that upfront, you can say, they can say to that borrower, hey, get with your
07:03realtor. This rent survey is really what we're looking at in qualifying. Have your agent show
07:08you homes that will rent for higher versus lower, you know, for the same, for the same price range
07:12and really go beyond tax returns, right? So to get a full picture, what do you have in assets? What
07:18do your bank statements look like? How much do you cashflow? We had, we had actually a recent deal in
07:23Park City, just up, just around the corner from here where the borrower is buying a condo tell as
07:29a primary residence, which is not that common. And their in-house underwriting was having nothing to
07:34do with it. And there was too many tax return issues that they were having. But it turns out this
07:38borrower
07:39had like $3 million in a brokerage account. That's all we needed. So they had multiple sets of tax returns.
07:45We didn't need any of those. We just needed a copy of the brokerage account. There's no DTI. It's called
07:49ATR in full loan. And those asset depletion, ATR in full loans have grown in popularity over the
07:54last few years. They're maybe the simplest loans on earth. The client was thrilled.
07:58And, you know, I want to address something too of like, there's a, there has been a notion that like
08:02non-QM rates are like really high. They're fantastic right now, historically speaking.
08:10So spreads used to be like 200 basis points higher than agency. And that spreads become much thinner.
08:15So I, you know, I was looking earlier, I think the average rate was six and a half,
08:176.56 last week for a 30 year. We've got rates that are half a point below that now.
08:23So just because it's alternate doesn't necessarily mean it's a higher rate.
08:26You get people buying, you know, multimillion dollar condo towels. They're, they're also rate
08:30conscious, but solutions can be had. And, and that was all done because the loan officer asked a lot
08:35of questions upfront and we got a complete asset picture. So those questions can make a big difference.
08:40Let's delve into that a little bit more because I think it highlights a really important point that
08:45that brokers don't necessarily need to know every niche product. If they have the right
08:50lending partner, what does a strong broker lender relationship look like in practice,
08:56especially when you're navigating some of the complex scenarios that you've mentioned?
09:00That's such an important piece of it. So I think about it as a true partnership,
09:05right? Like we don't exist without our customers. And sure. We get transactional transactions,
09:11if you will, like one company sending us one loan, but what we really want is to be a partner
09:15with you.
09:16One of my best brokers for years, his name was John Joyce out in the Bay area. We would talk
09:22every
09:23single day, maybe for just a minute or two, but really driving that relationship of, we love being
09:28your partner. We love having a loyal relationship and that will really matter. Like people think, oh,
09:33you're accurate. You're one of the biggest non-QM originators in the country.
09:36It's true, but we still value the loyalty. So if we get a deal in that maybe we're kind of
09:40borderline on, right? Like this is a mixed use property that we don't really think we're going
09:43to make a ton on or any. If we go back and look and we go, yeah, but this relationship
09:48with this
09:48broker, we've done deal after deal after deal. They send us all their business. That will definitely
09:53influence our decision. So like the loyalty and the relationship really matters. And yeah, I mean,
09:59our loan officers are incredible. They know, you know, VA, USDA, FHA, all this stuff to add on
10:06everything about non-QM on top of that would be almost impossible, even though many of them are
10:09brilliant just because it changes, right? It can change from week to week. ACRA sells, you know,
10:15hundreds of millions at a consistent basis. So we really have our pulse, our finger on that pulse
10:19of what, what can be done. So my advice would be really to find a wholesale partner that, you know,
10:24going back to the trust thing and the relationship thing that you trust and, you know, that you call
10:29them early and often to get our help, right? We can help you. This is all we do. So, you
10:34know,
10:34don't be afraid to reach out. Even if it's at nine o'clock on a Friday, shoot us a text.
10:38We'll help you
10:39out. Now, Ryan, looking ahead, where do you see the biggest growth opportunities for non-QM over the
10:45next few years? And what advice would you give brokers who want to position themselves ahead of the
10:50market instead of chasing it? So I'm really excited. The entire non-QM space is going to keep
10:56growing. There's basically an unlimited demand for the kind of paper that we're producing, right?
11:01Whether it's whole loan sale or, or, or securitization. Operationally, you know, I think
11:08I'm not an AI expert, but you will see AI involved in underwriting and appraisal review times. And I am
11:16really excited for what that will do for, for turn times. I mean, right now you can walk into a,
11:22a Ferrari dealership and you can finance a $400,000 car and be out, out the door in maybe,
11:27you know, 90 minutes. I don't, I don't know that that's my advice that you should do that,
11:30but you could, right? There's no reason a $400,000 home purchase should be any different,
11:36right? Like we have to respect trading the Cohen, those kinds of things, but there's so much opportunity
11:39for improved efficiencies that I'm really excited about. As far as getting ahead of it,
11:44really leveraging your relationship with your account executive to drive your business,
11:48to be that one-stop shop. You know, the realtors out here don't want to send you the eight deals
11:53you can do, and then send the other two, four national condo tells to somebody else,
11:57they want to just work with you. And your AE can really see the production nationally,
12:02and they can also help their loan officers say, here's what I'm seeing working right now. So,
12:07you know, in addition to realtors, we've got a lot of really successful loan officers that partner with
12:13CPAs who see tons of self-employed borrowers, wealth planners who have folks that have a lot of assets,
12:18and then maybe one of the more surprising ones is like regional banks. Regional banks have a lot
12:23of turndowns, right? And where are they going to go with those? And some of our most successful
12:27loan officers partner with those. So I would say really getting with your account executive and
12:31understanding that they really want to help you grow in every possible way to get more of that market,
12:37because, you know, the non-QM market just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Ryan, thank you so
12:42much for sitting down with me and letting me pick your brain about what's going on in the non-agency
12:46space.
12:48It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
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