- 4 days ago
This Is a Bomb: The Nevada Casino Heist - Season 1 Episode 3 - The Manhunt
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00:19Guns, knives, explosives?
00:22No, sir.
00:22No, sir.
00:35Wow, I didn't even, I had no idea they had this wall.
00:45It brings back a lot of memories.
00:49He's in the middle there.
00:51It's my infamous father and then the bomb that he built next to it.
01:00He ruined a lot of lives along the way.
01:03The bomb went off yesterday as an attempt was being made to disarm it.
01:07It was a giant bomb of diabolic complexity and it went off, as Bernard Goldberg reports,
01:13with a giant roar.
01:14The bomb team was trying to defuse the device via remote control when something went wrong.
01:28FBI agents say that anyone sophisticated enough to make a bomb, such as the one that destroyed Harvey's, is capable
01:34of making another.
01:34We had a list of 500 possible suspects.
01:40It makes looking for a needle in a haystack look easy.
01:44To Harvey's management, the loss is monumental.
01:47And the bombers left a letter saying they would try again.
01:51The FBI is still looking for suspects.
01:55They knew that he built the bomb.
01:57And he was just like, I built it.
02:00Now catch me.
02:42The FBI is looking for three suspects in this case, two men and a woman.
02:47Several dozen agents have been poured into the area in hopes they can make a quick arrest.
02:52The bottom had just about hit the chair when I heard about the hotel blowing up.
02:58As a young attorney, you want challenging cases to start off with, and this certainly was that.
03:04The plan for the FBI was simply to find out who might be a suspect in the case.
03:11And that sounds real easy, but it was real hard.
03:14I was astonished at the amount of resources that they grew at.
03:18In fact, I was told by agents at the time this was the largest investigation ever undertaken by the FBI,
03:25not counting presidential assassinations or assassination attempts.
03:31Because of the heinous nature of this crime, it's absolutely imperative that we, the FBI, bring these perpetrators to justice
03:40as quickly as possible.
03:41Today, the FBI is searching for three people who agents believe may have been responsible for setting the bomb at
03:47Harvey's.
03:48There is a $175,000 reward sponsored by Harvey's and three other casinos for any information leading to arrest and
03:55conviction of the criminals who caused at least $3 million worth of destruction to the state line gambling establishment.
04:03That was the beginning of almost a year of admitting nothing and denying everything except to Kelly.
04:12No.
04:14I did not want to tell the authorities at all.
04:16I kept it secret.
04:20I think my biggest problem was I just didn't want to see the boys be put in prison.
04:24And I knew that if I said anything, they would be.
04:29I loved the guy.
04:31Workmen were busy today cleaning up the parking lot of Harvey's wagon wheel, while on the inside investigators are picking
04:37through the debris in a search for clues.
04:45After any bomb goes off, what you're trying to do is you're trying to figure out what the bomb was
04:51comprised of.
04:51In wheel bomb, we at least had a head start.
04:58We took pictures before the detonation of the bomb.
05:02And from those pictures, we were able to identify certain parts.
05:07You're looking at the bits and pieces of the bomb itself, trying to figure out, post-blast, what it was.
05:14The bomb doesn't just disappear.
05:16It just gets smaller.
05:17So I had eight guys with sifting screens.
05:20And we recovered a total of 108 pounds of that bomb.
05:25And leads went out all over the country for the identification of those parts, who sold them, where they were
05:33sold.
05:34And we were getting hundreds of calls on a phone line that had been set up.
05:40If anybody had a tip, a location, a person, a car.
05:49When the FBI was investigating and looking for who the people were that were responsible for this,
05:55there was never a moment where Jim didn't worry that this was the day that he was going to jail
05:59for the rest of his life.
06:00You wake up in the morning, and that fear, it was constant.
06:04And it was never, never subsiding.
06:07Of course, every one of those calls, we had to evaluate it and see if it had any bearing on
06:11our case.
06:14That list grew to about 500 people.
06:19These officers had to respond very quickly.
06:23At one point, we did focus in on a group of engineers.
06:29You know, one was an aircraft guy.
06:31He could fly, but they had alibis.
06:35So we'd scratch him on the list and go to number 276.
06:45What the FBI was looking for is something out of the ordinary.
06:50And you're talking about a gambling resort that is visited by tourists every day.
06:55And to look for something that just doesn't fit that pattern,
06:58it makes looking for a needle in a haystack look easy.
07:07In the meantime, Arby's is back in business.
07:10It will be a long time before the 14-story casino hotel opens again,
07:15but the older adjoining one-story casino is back in business.
07:19Gaming Control did let us become operational again pretty quickly.
07:23I think that gave the community, the employees, everybody confidence that things will start to recover.
07:35Arby was very worried about the employees.
07:39I know he wanted to get people back to work.
07:43Gaming Control gave him permission to put up plywood.
07:46It had actually windows in it that you could see through and look to the other side.
07:51But in spite of the mess around them, employees and customers didn't seem to mind.
07:56What I can hear? We've been before.
07:59And you're not going to let a silly little thing like a boss persuade you?
08:02No. No, I didn't even stay home for that.
08:17Yeah.
08:18Must have been a sick man at the ground there.
08:19Yeah.
08:20He did.
08:22You know, they also looked at Arby really close
08:26because Arby had made application to expand the hotel and was turned down.
08:32We've been told that Harvey's intended to lay off about 300 employees temporarily beginning
08:38next week for a short term remodeling project.
08:40It appears as though that remodeling project has been expanded and came a little sooner
08:45than they had anticipated.
08:47Now, if his hotel all of a sudden got blown up, he would be able to rebuild.
08:53That on itself was grounds to look at Harvey.
09:00We examined the rubble for 25, 30 days, collecting pieces and trying to identify them, and we
09:08were not very successful with any of that.
09:11It just was either too damaged or it was too common an item.
09:18And what I needed as a prosecutor is either forensic evidence or statements from witnesses that
09:23would give me a case that I could take into court.
09:25And we weren't even closing in on that.
09:28I had men handling these leads that had come in, and none of them were really of value.
09:36It was an extremely frustrating investigation.
09:39It just was really hard to find anybody that was a legitimate suspect.
09:43A couple of months went by.
09:46And we were worried all the time about whoever it was trying it again, building another bomb,
09:52because the bomber said in this original extortion letter, they had the ways and means to do it again.
10:01It was everywhere that the FBI was conducting this huge investigation.
10:06And in the middle of all that, Big John decided he's going to build another bomb.
10:11But this time, it's going to be remote control and drive itself in.
10:17So one night, I go to sleep.
10:21And in that time, he found my keys, stole my truck, drove back up to the Helms Project, the same
10:31locker, and stole another thousand pounds of dynamite.
10:36I wake up in the morning, and he's pulling in, and my truck is popping a wheelie.
10:40It's so full of dynamite in the back.
10:42And I went crazy.
10:43I went nuts.
10:44How the F can you use my truck to go steal dynamite?
10:47And now I'm thinking I'm screwed.
10:55You know, there was a hundred agents involved in this investigation.
10:59And Big John really thought, in his mind, he wasn't going to get caught.
11:05He was invincible.
11:18The owner of a hotel in South Lake Tahoe called our hotline and said that she had rented a room
11:26the night of the 25th to three men who arrived in a white van and stayed one night.
11:37And she thought it was suspicious because she'd read in the newspaper that we were looking for a white van.
11:42So some agents went out there, interviewed her, got that license plate.
11:51The license plate led us to John Burgess, senior.
11:58When the agents arrived at his house, they asked about the white van.
12:06If they hadn't written that license plate down, they might have never connected this to Big John.
12:13But now that they've found us, there's no way they're not going to be able to put all this together.
12:18It's just too much.
12:22And so we selected John Burgess, senior to get the full treatment.
12:27And that meant that myself and another agent would visit him every single day.
12:34And I'd get varying responses.
12:37Sometimes he'd open the door and say, come in.
12:40Sometimes he'd be so angry and yelling and screaming at us.
12:44It just, you had no idea which senior you were going to get that day.
12:49He never refused to answer the door.
12:53On one occasion, I took a picture of the bomb itself.
12:57He told us that whoever built that sure knew what they were doing.
13:01We'd laugh and I'd say stuff like, well, if you were going to make any changes, what would you have
13:06done?
13:07Oh, he'd look at the picture and I don't think I'd change a thing.
13:10This just looks perfect.
13:12And he was just letting them know in his arrogant way that I built it.
13:16Now catch me.
13:20Since he was under investigation, he didn't feel comfortable storing the dynamite at our house.
13:27Go figure.
13:29So he decided he needed to move the dynamite.
13:37So he went out to this creek bed, full sand, and buried all this dynamite.
13:51Then the Fresno guys conducted extensive background.
13:55We learned that he had a landscape company, certainly had experience with timers and electrical systems.
14:03He did owe Harvey's money over $100,000.
14:08His restaurant had suspiciously burned down one night.
14:14Nothing that we could use in a case, but certainly helped us realize we're getting closer and closer to this
14:20guy.
14:25And so he was trying to figure out how to build this new bomb.
14:29All while he's under the microscope of the FBI.
14:39John Senior was holding fast.
14:42I mean, he was not giving an inch.
14:44He wasn't admitting that he had anything to do with the bombing.
14:47I think it appealed to his ego to be talking to them about it.
14:50But nobody was admitting that anything wrong had been done.
14:54So we were trying to think of a way to put pressure on him.
14:58And when we asked about the white van,
15:01John Burgess Sr. immediately pointed to his son, John Jr., and said,
15:07that's his truck. I don't drive it. That's his.
15:14Then I came home to a business card tucked in my front door.
15:18It was from the FBI.
15:20I felt the walls closing in on me and I began to panic.
15:24I suddenly envisioned myself behind the bars of the county jail.
15:28I made a call to Big John.
15:30These guys are here. Why?
15:32And he just said, you know, come to the house.
15:34We'll make up a story why your van was up in the Tahoe area.
15:39That's when Big John started to outline this plan.
15:44After a couple of hours, the story was in place.
15:47I was skeptical, but what choice did I have?
15:51The next day after work, agents knocked on my door.
15:55When we showed up at Junior's house on the coffee table, he had all kinds of dope.
16:01He had marijuana laying around.
16:03My brother at that time was a marijuana dealer and he sold a lot of marijuana.
16:09And he's scrambling, trying to get rid of that.
16:12And the agent says, John, we're not here to talk to you about marijuana.
16:16We could care less.
16:18We want to talk to you about your trip up to Lake Tahoe.
16:23Both agents looked at me.
16:24I could feel my skin begin to crawl.
16:27I just kept telling myself, stick to the story and everything will be all right.
16:34I told them I happened to be in the Plusterville area, scouting out potential places to grow marijuana.
16:40I had left my radio on and my battery went dead.
16:46I then hitched back to Fresno, coming back two days later to get my van.
16:57Apparently someone must have used it during that time, returning it back to the mountain when they were through with
17:02it.
17:10After he told me that story, I pointed out, you don't drive to an area 6,000, 7,000 feet
17:17in elevation to grow marijuana.
17:20That's crazy.
17:21But he wouldn't back away from that story.
17:24We knew he was lying about why he was in South Lake Tahoe.
17:28And everybody thought that if they put sufficient pressure on him, somebody would crack and some information would come out
17:34that would advance the case.
17:41They would follow us all around, go everywhere, everywhere we stopped in a vehicle, and not being discreet about it.
17:48They wanted us to know they were there.
17:54The feds put a pen register on my home phone, so everyone who called me or called from my house
17:58would get a visit from the feds whether they knew me or not.
18:02Then they upped the reward to half a million dollars.
18:06Now that made a difference with a lot of people.
18:10The feds had convinced everyone around me that I was guilty.
18:14A lot of them tried to get me to talk about the extortion, because they were trying to get a
18:18piece of the reward.
18:21They had also began to put more pressure on Kelly.
18:24We were in love, but this whole thing was tearing us apart.
18:27I came out of my apartment, and there was the black car, kind of parked down a little ways, so
18:33they were a little more inconspicuous.
18:34But you could tell two suits were inside, and that scared me.
18:42But I just didn't say anything.
18:47Rain, sleet, snow, every single day, I knocked on John Senior's door.
18:55And this went on for months and months under the microscope from the FBI, and I was not even able
19:01to live my life at that point.
19:05I mean, they were living three feet behind me.
19:09It was terrifying.
19:11They would park outside of our home, they would look over fences.
19:15I was like, this is too crazy for me.
19:18I was not going to jail.
19:20We decided the best thing to do would be to step away from each other, until the whole thing blew
19:24over.
19:29They had taken Kelly away from me.
19:31They were turning my friends against me.
19:37This entire time, my father seemed oblivious to the fact that maybe he didn't care that I was the one
19:42being harassed.
19:46What I didn't know was that the same agents had called on Big John because the van was registered to
19:50him, and he was the one who sent them to me.
19:55It didn't bother him to put my head on the chopping block.
19:58That fact is one I wish I could forgive.
20:09Everyone, I think, was frustrated. I know that I was just thinking maybe we're never going to solve this thing.
20:15As we were coming up on a year anniversary of the Harveys bombing, there were indications that John was planning
20:23a revenge attack.
20:27Big John, he was trying to figure out how to build his new bomb, but he didn't have any money.
20:31So to earn money, he did a job where my aunt and uncle built a big automated machine for their
20:39pigs.
20:40And apparently the door didn't open the right way, so they wouldn't pan.
20:44So he thought, okay, I'll show you.
20:47And he was counting on that money to build his new bomb.
20:52In retaliation, Big John took about 50 pounds of leftover dynamite and blew up the bridge on the only paved
21:00road to the ranch.
21:07Big John really thought it was impossible for him to get caught because he was smarter than everybody else.
21:15That explosion showed us that Big John had an ego the size of Texas.
21:23So we went to this turkey ranch and we asked to see the construction points.
21:29Realized it was the same identical technology, if you will, as to what was in the bomb.
21:38But we still needed witnesses.
21:44The FBI had come to me.
21:46They were threatening that if I didn't say what I knew, that they'd make sure I paid for it.
21:53And they said, if you don't tell us, you are an accomplice and you're going to go to prison.
21:59They knew enough to know we were involved.
22:03They still did not have enough to issue an arrest.
22:08Remember, this time I was 16 years old.
22:10I was a child.
22:11And it was very scary.
22:16So then I called John Jr. and I said, look, I can't keep it in it much longer.
22:23Because they're really after me.
22:25And I didn't do this.
22:27So it's putting me in a precarious place.
22:29I didn't want to be in that place.
22:33I felt the walls closing in on me and I began to panic.
22:37And I think that he'd had enough at that point.
22:41So John Jr. told me, you tell him whatever in the F you want to tell him.
22:46I had kept it secret.
22:49Up until I didn't.
23:01Okay, now we knew John Jr. was lying.
23:04But to prove the fact that dad's the mastermind, dad's the moving force and that he directed and managed everything,
23:11we needed the boys.
23:14And so we called John Jr. to testify in front of a grand jury story about coming up to Reno
23:23to scout out the marijuana for him.
23:25And the grand juries do not like to be lied to.
23:29They put together enough information to prove that I had perjured myself.
23:34In August of 81, they came to my house and arrest me.
23:41So at the same time, they wanted me down at the federal building for an interview.
23:46Which I did.
23:49The whole idea of this was to scare these two enough that one or both of them would start talking.
23:56And it was a Hail Mary.
23:57If we had indicted John Jr. and he just held fast and wouldn't collapse, we wouldn't have had anybody else.
24:03And once they knew that that was the shot that we had taken and missed, I figured we'd never see
24:09Big John again.
24:11In one office, there was myself and Jr.
24:14And then just down the hall a little bit were agents and Jimmy Burgess.
24:19So we were talking to them separately.
24:22I'm being interviewed.
24:24The FBI agent, Bill O'Reilly, says, we've arrested your brother.
24:27You know, it's time to fess up and tell us what you know.
24:32With Johnny, we said, okay, you need to tell us about your dad and how he built this bomb.
24:37And, you know, he really wasn't too scared.
24:40But when we started to explain to him the federal consequences of his action, he really got concerned.
24:48And Bill O'Reilly, he says, we're in the boat here and you're on the dock and we're pulling away
24:53from the dock.
24:53You got to jump on board or you're going to be left.
24:57One of the agents pointed out that he would be a pretty young guy in a big man's institution.
25:04And I'm just, you know, I didn't know what to do.
25:07And about half hour in an interview, he says, your brother is giving us information.
25:13And I told him, no way, you're full of crap.
25:16He said, son, there comes a point in your life that you've got to believe somebody.
25:20And, you know, it's time, you've got to believe me.
25:23And I said, I can't.
25:24Jim and Johnny came from a man who, there's no trust in this.
25:28So could they really believe that the FBI agent was telling the truth?
25:34Big John was circling the federal building because I was nowhere to be found and my brother was nowhere to
25:39be found.
25:39You know, he thinks something's going on.
25:42They were asking me to turn against my father.
25:47I was 19.
25:48It was just all mixed feelings and mixed turmoil on how to feel.
25:55He was wanted by the FBI for a year.
25:57He wondered every day, am I going to spend the rest of my life in jail?
26:02I'm about to break down and say, I just can't.
26:04I just can't.
26:05I got to know something.
26:06You got to tell me something.
26:09He thought about it and then he told me something that no way anybody wouldn't know.
26:14No way.
26:18No way.
26:25And it had to have came from my brother.
26:36I gave a statement to the FBI.
26:39The statement was 17 pages long.
26:45Johnny was intermittently crying and, I mean, he's talking about his dad, for God's sake.
26:54I believe what he told me.
26:57It felt like a pallet of bricks had been lifted off me.
27:02And I just broke down, grabbed me, put me in his arms.
27:07He said, it's okay.
27:08And he's crying.
27:09I'm crying.
27:10And then he goes, well, we realize you're not involved that much, but you could tell us what we know
27:17and help us out.
27:18And so when I started in with the story, then his eyes got really big and you go, holy shit.
27:24Once he started talking, you couldn't shut him up.
27:27The boys had told us about some additional dynamite being stolen.
27:33Started digging.
27:34And sure enough, here come boxes and boxes and boxes of dynamite.
27:42So he had big plans.
27:48Well, in a day, we got an arrest warrant for Big John.
27:53We had enough to put him in handcuffs and put him in jail.
28:08Today, the FBI announced the arrest of five persons in connection with the Harvey's bomb plot.
28:1459-year-old John Burgess was named as the mastermind.
28:17Ella Joan Williams, a Fresno County probation officer, is accused of typing the three-page extortion letter.
28:23Two other men were also arrested.
28:25The only official response from Harvey's today was this press release.
28:29Management said that they were elated by the arrest of the suspects in the bombing case.
28:33Once we found out John Burgess was arrested, it was a relief to the family.
28:38They put that bomb in the building with people, with guests, with employees.
28:44What were you hoping?
28:46That he would get life in prison.
28:55The first trials to take place were in federal court in Reno.
29:00After a motion to ban cameras from the courtroom was denied,
29:03James Burgess, the son of the alleged mastermind, took the stand.
29:07My father said he lost quite a hundred money gambling.
29:10He didn't have any money.
29:11He was going to get a million dollars in Harvey's bomb.
29:16For a week or so, we present all of our evidence, FBI agents, witnesses.
29:22And we rest, and now it's John's turn, and Big John takes the stand.
29:26And I was friendly with the attorney at the time, so I know this.
29:30John never told him what his defense was going to be.
29:46The questions over here is not, I made the bomb.
29:49I made the bomb, I don't deny it.
29:52The reason I made the bomb, I deny.
29:55I fall for a setup.
29:58You see, Mr. Harvey Gross knew me very well.
30:01I was such a high roller that Harvey want me on the ranch.
30:05And I had about six or seven meetings with him.
30:08He told me that his intention is to build a 20-story, 540-room hotel and 5-story garage.
30:15But he was frustrated.
30:17He was fighting the regional planning agency.
30:20And he couldn't build his dream hotel.
30:23My idea was to completely bring down the sage room.
30:26Bring down the casino.
30:28And build a new one.
30:31So that nobody could stop him.
30:35Did they have a pretty large policy?
30:38They had a very large policy.
30:42There was never any question of amounts or coverage or adjusting at all.
30:47Paul, specifically, George Homestead, the adjuster, who watched the explosion,
30:51came back the next day with a check for three quarters of a million dollars to Harvey's
30:56and gave it to their chief financial officer and said,
30:59just keep sending the bills and we'll keep paying.
31:05In a wacko television universe, could Harvey gain from an insurance scam like that?
31:10Absolutely.
31:11But there was nothing to indicate that he would do that kind of thing.
31:15It was all just preposterous.
31:18Something that a jailhouse crook is going to say to try to get some attention.
31:24We knew what happened.
31:27Unfortunately, 20 years was the top end for extortion.
31:30That's what we went after.
31:31That's what we got.
31:32But many people felt that that wasn't sufficient.
31:44Meanwhile, Douglas County District Attorney Mike Rowe says he fully intends to go ahead with his own prosecution of the
31:50accused bombers.
31:51I feel that this is a heinous crime and it should go punished by more than a simple 20 years.
31:57The Douglas D.A. said he would not be bound by any deals federal prosecutors might strike with the defendants.
32:04These guys had done serious damage to one of the principal industries in the county.
32:09We felt that they needed to be brought to justice for that.
32:13But I was in Ed Cain's office when that phone call came to the U.S. Attorney.
32:20We wanted to prosecute the boys.
32:23They admitted to being participants in this venture.
32:28That's life in prison there.
32:29And we have no bargaining chip.
32:32But I thought that the boys were entitled to some consideration for their cooperation.
32:37Those boys went through hell to testify as they did against their father.
32:41I didn't want to see them do any time.
32:46Mr. Cain goes, well, if you're going to charge them, we're not going to cooperate whatsoever.
32:52And the FBI said we're not going to get any cooperation from us.
32:57The phone call was over.
32:59I went to bat for them the same as I did with the federal judge and told them that the
33:04boys were the absolute linchpin of this case.
33:07That without them, we didn't have a case.
33:11Ed Cain goes, don't worry, he'll be calling back shortly.
33:16So they called back and they, you know, promised immunity for us if they turn over the evidence and help
33:22in the state prosecution.
33:26I definitely had sympathy for both boys.
33:29They just didn't have much of an upbringing or a very good upbringing.
33:32And they had this tyrant for a father.
33:37Those men are probably the biggest example of a father figure that Jim had ever seen.
33:44That's the closest thing to a daddy had.
33:56It's been about 40 years.
33:58This is where the state trial took place.
34:03Did you tell the judge what's the situation?
34:06Yes.
34:06Since my dad was acting his own attorney with no chance of any acquittal, his only thing he wanted to
34:14accomplish was his attack, his kids, blaming us for him getting caught.
34:19So that basically turned into two days of torture.
34:27Mr. Burgess, you've made statements to the FBI and testified in the trial that you acted out of fear.
34:35Yes.
34:36Could you explain why did you have fear from me?
34:40Probably from our childhood.
34:44You know, in those days I was so desperate to actually be acknowledged as a son, loved or cared for
34:54by your father.
34:58Do I come home drunk and beat you up?
35:03You beat us up, splitting my lip in half.
35:08You beat the shit out of me with a coat hanger until I was bleeding.
35:15Do you remember?
35:19I do remember, Mr. Burgess.
35:29Now, did you leave the house and move out one time?
35:34Yes.
35:36But you did move back in.
35:40If you had such fear, why did you want to come back again?
35:48Because I still loved you.
35:51You still do, Mr. Burgess?
35:55Yes.
35:59It's a twisted form of love.
36:02I'm trying to please him by going along with this.
36:05I'm trying to get his affirmation by potentially killing people.
36:14Everybody was a victim of one guy, my dad.
36:19And it pains me to even use that in reference to him.
36:23It really does, because he wasn't that.
36:35I think that once everything happened and Big John went to prison, Jim and Johnny took very different paths.
36:44They just never could put that back together. It was just reminders of what had happened.
36:50My brother was just a tormented soul, tormented.
36:58But I did think when he was down in Nicaragua and in the surf community there that he had found
37:04peace.
37:12When my brother died, it didn't surprise me that ultimately the drugs and alcohol were his demise.
37:18What surprised me is he committed suicide.
37:23I think he got a copy of my mother's autopsy report.
37:28And it's compelling.
37:30I mean, it really does indicate that my father murdered her versus the accidental suicide.
37:37And he just couldn't handle it.
37:42That's my assumption that that was the final blow that did it.
37:50Well, people mask their pain in different ways.
37:55My brother turned to drugs and alcohol, and I chose to be a horrific codependent.
38:05And as far as I'm concerned, that's just as bad as putting a needle in your arm with heroin.
38:09And it's just as destructive.
38:11I never saw Jimmy really grieving much when his brother passed away.
38:15I mean, you could tell he was sad. You could tell it bothered him.
38:17It was the last part of his family.
38:23I wish I could have done more to have a brother-brother relationship.
38:32I never had that with him.
38:36If Johnny was alive today, I believe that Jim's heart has softened enough that would have a different outcome.
38:44Because Jim was starting to get to a place of some sort of healing.
38:52Even though I'm sad, he's not in torture anymore.
39:06You know, I think that little John never had that second family like Jimmy does.
39:13You know, my dad was non-existent.
39:16So, I spent a lot of time with the Wilson family.
39:20And his mom and his dad, Bob Wilson's mom and dad, took me in as their own.
39:26Jim and I, like I said, we're like brothers.
39:29You know, I owe a lot to Bobby and his parents and, you know, to this day.
39:35Jim's at a place where his friends are now saying, he's coming out on the other side of this.
39:41He is opening up a little bit more.
39:45This was a piece of the bomb. I don't know if you've ever seen that or not.
39:49Wow. She looked like it got twisted up.
39:52Well, you probably saw it when it was flat.
39:54I did. I did.
39:55Yeah.
39:56You'd be hard pressed to find any time that I was treated with the dignity and respect that the FBI
40:01and the US Attorney's Office treated me.
40:04And the honesty and integrity that they showed and had.
40:10In doing that, it instilled my belief that there were still good people out there.
40:16And so we were able to keep you out and free and give you a good start in life.
40:22And that's what we wanted to do.
40:24That was the start of a whole new journey.
40:27Yeah. Yeah, so.
40:30I'm so happy with Jim's progression because I actually see him loving himself now.
40:35I think that Jim feeling finally safe for the first time in his life has allowed him to tell his
40:41story.
40:43And stop holding things back.
40:47People are always in fear that you're going to be your father and behave that same way.
40:53But I, I, it gave me a good benchmark of what not to do with my own children.
40:58So.
41:01Well, I already got the cheese on there.
41:04I'll make the whole sandwich before you finish your cheese.
41:06Listen.
41:08It was the complete opposite with my kids.
41:12This is all through that.
41:13And you see, there's a picture.
41:14Me and my brother.
41:16You look so different.
41:17No, I don't.
41:18Yes, you do.
41:19You have a, like, you have the tiny little mustache.
41:21That's the style bathroom.
41:25And, you know, I did just never had moments like that with, with my dad.
41:30So I tried to be, try to be a, a good father and be the person he wasn't.
41:37Just, it just, it's, it gives me a purpose.
41:41Really ashamed that that's all we got.
41:45But, that's it.
41:46We can start new pages.
41:48There we go.
41:48We can add to these.
42:03Yeah, this is all the new building that, uh, was a big part of my dad's defense in this state
42:09trial.
42:10That Harvey was going to forgive his gambling debts in exchange to blow up the casino so he could build
42:16a new wing and, as preposterous as it sounds, kind of does make sense.
42:22The total loss turned out to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 million.
42:26If it was today, it would be probably 150 million or more.
42:29So, when all was said and done, they were delighted.
42:35Harvey's has reopened.
42:36Their owner, Harvey Gross, cut the ribbon, formally opening the new Harvey's, the newly sleek, sophisticated casino hotel.
42:43And I know I'm going to do everything within my power to help them pay for it.
42:51I actually got married there in 1989, which is the weirdest thing in the world.
42:56You got married at Harvey's?
42:57I got married at Harvey's.
42:59Yes, I did.
43:00It was beautiful. It was the best wedding chapel in all of Lake Tahoe.
43:05Due to the remodel.
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