- 3 minutes ago
Former Birmingham City managing director Ian Dutton joins OLLEYS Live to discuss life behind the scenes at Blues, and how local sport has grown into a major international business. He reflects on the changing world of football, from running a local club to global audiences, commercial pressures, and investment across the game.
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00:23Hello there and it's Mike Olly here with Lorraine from Olly's Live.
00:27Today we've got a very special guest, Ian Dutton.
00:30A complex life, Ian, but certainly a very interesting life.
00:34Absolutely. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
00:36We want to break you into two parts.
00:38We're going to, first half of the show, we're going to talk about your life as the managing director
00:42and other roles at Birmingham City Football Club.
00:44Sounds good.
00:45That's a start of a 10. Tell us a bit about that.
00:48Yeah, OK. So I'm a Birmingham fan.
00:51So I've grew up a Birmingham fan, gone down to St Andrews since I was probably about three or four
00:56years of age
00:57with my brother and my dad. So sat on the terraces, very passionate.
01:02And anyway, I literally, just before I go to Birmingham, before I started at the club,
01:08I actually went to work abroad in the south of France.
01:10I was actually a windsurfing director, a windsurfing instructor.
01:13Bronze beauty, eh?
01:15Oh, there you go.
01:16Yeah.
01:16And anyway, I taught, long story short, I taught kids primarily from the UK how to windsurf.
01:22And also we did a lot of outdoor activity.
01:25And, you know, I was a village manager out in the south of France.
01:28And anyway, the company that I worked for was a company called Acorn Adventure.
01:32Amazing company.
01:33And that's how I got into sales.
01:34So their head office was based in Hales Owen.
01:37So I got into sales.
01:40And yeah, from there, I spotted a job at my beloved Birmingham City Football Club as a sales executive.
01:47Applied for it.
01:48What does that mean, a sales executive?
01:50So it was selling, primarily selling their hospitality.
01:54So selling their premium tickets fundamentally at the stadium.
01:58And yeah, I eventually got the role.
02:02Second time of asking, actually.
02:03But that's another story.
02:05And yeah, that's when it all started for me back in 2007.
02:09So you moved up.
02:10You started in sales.
02:11And you actually ended up as the managing director.
02:14That's an amazing progress.
02:16Tell us a little bit about that journey.
02:18Yeah.
02:18So, yeah, starting in 2007, I suppose I impressed.
02:23Hit all my sales targets.
02:25Went up to, I think it was 2009 as commercial manager.
02:29Got a promotion.
02:30And then in 2011, I suppose my biggest significant step was, if you remember, the year, it was the year
02:37we won the Carling Cup.
02:39But the same year we actually got relegated, which I think probably opened up an opportunity for me.
02:44Because we got relegated, certain leadership team members left, which opened up an opportunity for me to step into the
02:50role as chief commercial officer.
02:52So I looked after all of the revenue streams for the football club fundamentally.
02:58Held that role for the best part of 12 years.
03:02Went through some serious adversity, primarily because of ownership and some challenges that we had along the way.
03:08But yeah, in 2002, I had the privilege and the honour of being asked to be managing director of the
03:15football club.
03:15You know, the club that my family love.
03:18Were you there at the same time that Karen Brady was there?
03:21Yeah.
03:21Yes.
03:22Oh, wow.
03:23What was that like?
03:24What sort of person is she like to work with?
03:26Just make the point that every Thursday night she watches The Apprentice.
03:29I absolutely love it.
03:31And I think she's an amazing advocate for women generally in sport.
03:36And I think she broke the mould, didn't she?
03:37Oh, yeah, 100%.
03:38I mean, she was actually, she was managing director from, I think, 1991, 92.
03:43You know, first woman in football.
03:45You can imagine some of the challenges that she had to go through, you know.
03:49And, yeah, when I joined in 2007, I obviously knew Karen, but I knew her from a fan perspective.
03:54I was there going in the inner saturn to see how the world operates.
03:59And I didn't directly report to Karen.
04:01I reported to our commercial director at the time.
04:04But, yeah, she was coming across as a lovely lady.
04:06You know, Christmas parties, that kind of stuff, where we did meet in a more social setting.
04:11Really, really nice lady.
04:13However, in a business environment, very ruthless, you know.
04:17She, you know, she was very fair.
04:21Absolutely very fair.
04:23We used to have a sales meeting every Friday, which she hosted in her office, you know.
04:27And she would speak her mind, you know.
04:29If we weren't hitting our targets or if we weren't pulling our weight or if budgets weren't being hit, she'd
04:34tell you.
04:34So, firm, fair doesn't mean to words, I imagine.
04:37No, it doesn't at all.
04:38And that's how she comes across in The Apprentice, really.
04:41Yes, yes, yes.
04:42And we love The Apprentice.
04:43Yeah.
04:44She has.
04:44She's been a, you know, she's done so well for herself.
04:47And as you rightly say, she's been a huge advocate, certainly for females in business.
04:52And, you know, inspiration for younger people that want to really, you know, and rightfully do well for themselves.
04:57Absolutely.
04:58I've got to say that, I mean, we're actually Walsall fans, so I'll declare that interest now.
05:04But being a Walsall fan, it means it gives you plenty of scope and room to love every club, every
05:09other club.
05:09So, yeah, the Blues, I wish them well.
05:12I genuinely do.
05:13We like Walsall.
05:14Absolutely.
05:15Everyone loves Walsall.
05:16Everyone loves Walsall.
05:17Just stepping back, we're just Walsall fans, just Walsall fans.
05:20Very enthusiastic, but just.
05:21But you're the managing director now of a football club that is not just well-known in Birmingham, the West
05:27Midlands.
05:27It's a global brand.
05:29But certainly within Birmingham, it's a massive brand, isn't it?
05:34It's one of the biggest brands we've got.
05:36With the Villa, of course.
05:37Of course.
05:38But, I mean, you're still young.
05:41You're still young and to be detested.
05:44But you must have been even younger then.
05:46Yeah.
05:48So, first of all, the clear question, how old was you?
05:51Yeah.
05:51And not how did you cope with that being so young, but, you know, you must have got some sort
05:58of understanding of being in charge of this great brand at such a young age.
06:04Give us some insight into that.
06:05Yeah, of course.
06:06Well, I was 37.
06:07I think I was 37 when I got the role as managing director.
06:10But, yeah, I've obviously been at the club for a long time and in a leadership role as chief commercial
06:15officer for 12 years.
06:16So, I understood the operation, you know, and the full business side of the football club.
06:22I like to hope I had a very good reputation, not only, you know, a good level of credibility, not
06:27only with the people I work for and the people, you know, above me, but also the fans as well.
06:32You know, I got on really well with our fans, our partners, et cetera.
06:37And, yeah, like I say, it was a lot of pressure.
06:41Yeah.
06:41You know, I think from my perspective, as I alluded to earlier, we were going through a little bit of
06:45adversity at the time from an ownership perspective.
06:47The fans weren't exactly on our side.
06:51You know, so I think I helped, obviously, just take away some of that pressure, you know, be a real
06:55sort of communicator for the fans, try and tell the fans as much as I possibly could around what is
07:01going on.
07:03But just to be clear, that was more, I was looking after more of the business side of the football
07:06club.
07:06I didn't really meddle too much in the actual football side.
07:10Right.
07:10That was more managed by our...
07:11But you was well known by the fans?
07:13Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:15Because I'd built a relationship with them for such a long time, you know, and I knew a lot of
07:20them well.
07:21A lot of them were very, very good friends of mine.
07:23And there is that distinction between fan loyalty and making commercial decisions that's best for the club, you know,
07:30and keeping that fan loyalty must have been quite a challenge.
07:34You know, you make a wrong decision, they're not going to thank you for it, are they?
07:37No, absolutely.
07:38And, you know, I think this is, you know, sometimes being an actual fan and managing director versus actually perhaps
07:46not having that emotional attachment to the managing director.
07:49Yes, I get that.
07:49You know, there's pros and cons to both, but fundamentally, you know, unfortunately, you know, fans don't see the underbelly
07:57of actually what's going on in the football club
07:59and understand, I suppose, the business side of why you make certain decisions.
08:03And some things you can say and some things you can't say, unfortunately, just like any business.
08:07Yeah.
08:07You know, so I think you've just got to stand there and say, OK, is this right for the business?
08:12Is this right for the football club?
08:14Is this right for the fan base?
08:16Some of you get right, some of you get wrong, unfortunately, but that's just the nature of the beast.
08:20Do you think you got it right largely, though, as the MD at the Blues?
08:24I'd like to hope I put in a really good shift, you know, and I'd like to hope that, you
08:28know,
08:28certainly from being that person that is communicating to the fans, really being that person that they can vent at
08:36if they want to vent at someone,
08:38you know, because there was no one else, you know, other than some of the other senior leadership team who
08:43were amazing, by the way.
08:44You know, we had a really good leadership team there.
08:46They're a very, very strong unit.
08:47The likes of Craig Gardner was there still and still is, obviously, and doing a good job today.
08:53Mark Smith, et cetera.
08:54So, yeah, no, I think largely, given the challenges that we had, you know, I thought we did well.
09:01I thought we made some good decisions.
09:02Yeah.
09:02We're seeing a lot of American interest now in English football clubs.
09:07What do you think is driving that interest and what are they really after in terms of the long game,
09:14you know, long term?
09:15Yeah, no, it's a good question, actually.
09:17I've been asked that one before.
09:18And, you know, I think what you've got to remember is the Premier League and English football in general is
09:24the biggest sport in the world.
09:26Yeah.
09:26It just is, you know.
09:27And if you want to get real serious brand exposure, brand credibility, engage with some of the biggest, biggest businesses,
09:35biggest leaders in the world,
09:37then if you own a football club, you have the ability to do that.
09:41You know, it raises your profile and also you can, if run the right way, you can actually make quite
09:48a significant amount of money from actually running a football club, believe it or not.
09:52And it has been proven and done before, if done in the right and proper manner.
09:56But, yeah, I think the power of football in general is just becoming huge.
10:00I mean, you see the amount of celebrities that are getting involved as well.
10:03Absolutely. More and more.
10:04When you did make that move, and we'll talk about that more in part two of the show,
10:09how difficult was it for you to move into your current role in global sponsorship and leave 17 years of
10:19working at Birmingham City Football Club behind?
10:21Was it very difficult?
10:22It was. It was really tough. It was really tough.
10:24But for me, it was the right decision at the time for a variety of different reasons.
10:29You know, we'd gone through challenges of previous owners.
10:34We then obviously had the takeover, the amazing takeover by Knighthead Capital Management and Tom Wagner and the guys there.
10:43And Gary Cook come in. Gary Cook come in as our CEO at the time, someone I've known for a
10:47long, long time.
10:48He was brought in as CEO.
10:50They wanted me to stay on, so they offered me a position in their global partnerships team.
10:56I bet that was a table team.
10:58Yeah, it was.
10:59You know, but I also had, you know, I'd also realised that, you know what, I've been there 17 years.
11:06You know, I was kind of like handing my baby over to someone else, really.
11:12How long was managing director, sorry?
11:14Two and a half years.
11:15Two and a half years.
11:15So two and a half years.
11:16And it was kind of like, it was just time for me.
11:18You know, when you're deep down, you just know and you feel that.
11:21Yes, it's the right time.
11:23Are you still in touch with the club?
11:24Do you still?
11:25Absolutely.
11:26That's fantastic.
11:26In my current line of business, you know, we work with the club regularly.
11:29Yes.
11:30And, you know, I've got fantastic relationships there, even still.
11:34And it's, there's just some brilliant people and some brilliant people that I've worked with there from there in the
11:39past as well.
11:39That's great.
11:40Tell us about your current role, what that involves.
11:42Yeah, so fundamentally, what we do as a business is we literally match up brands with rights holders.
11:50So we're an extension to a sales team for a football club, a rugby club, a cricket club.
11:54So I drive the UK sales for the business.
11:58Well, it's a great backing, isn't it?
12:00Yeah.
12:00Being the MD of Birmingham City Football Club.
12:02Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, a lot of, you know, my passion, certainly when I was commercial, chief commercial
12:09officer at Birmingham, is that whole partnership platform.
12:12That's a revenue string I managed.
12:14I looked after regional, national, global partnerships and bringing brands to the football club.
12:20So I'm now able to fundamentally do that for lots of different football clubs and rights holders all over the
12:27world.
12:28So that's what we do.
12:29You know, we've got expertise, knowledge.
12:31We get under the bonnet of what the brand's looking for and how we can really match up then with
12:35a rights holder.
12:36It's like a marriage broker, aren't you?
12:38You find someone who's got some money they want to invest in, football, cricket, what have you.
12:43Exactly.
12:44That's what we do.
12:45It's global.
12:46So it's on a massive scale now.
12:48It's a big responsibility, isn't it?
12:50No, it is.
12:51It is.
12:51Yeah.
12:52So we've got, yeah, we've got operations all over the world and a team all over the world.
12:56And yeah, we're operating in various different leagues in cricket, in MLS.
13:02We do a lot of endorsement deals as well.
13:04So, yeah.
13:05So we do individual partnerships, et cetera, as well.
13:08So you're in the National League, I take it.
13:10I presume you're in the Premier League.
13:12So you're throughout?
13:13Throughout.
13:14Throughout football.
13:15Yeah.
13:15National League, right up to the Premier League, we'll work with rights holders and support them in any way we
13:19can.
13:20Do you get to travel in the job as well?
13:22Do you go out and about and visit other countries and connect with different sporting activities that way as well?
13:30Yeah, not a huge amount.
13:32We have done, you know.
13:34So I was in Malta not that long ago because we did a big deal with a big event called
13:40Battle of the Beasts.
13:41And we did the main sponsor for that particular event.
13:44So we're out there.
13:44That was good fun.
13:46You know, I was in Barcelona for a big gaming convention in January.
13:52So that was good as well.
13:54Sounds like a fun job, doesn't it?
13:55I don't know what a gaming convention is, actually.
13:57A betting convention.
13:59So, like, betting and gaming and, yeah.
14:01So I understand about, you know, the sponsorship on the front of a football shirt, you know, AB Limited.
14:06I get that.
14:07But a gaming convention?
14:09Yeah, well, so fundamentally it's a betting convention.
14:11And, you know, obviously betting in sport is massive.
14:15It is, yeah.
14:16And a lot of betting companies are involved in a lot of sports from a sponsorship perspective.
14:20Hence the reason why we'll go out there and build those relationships, build that rapport, try and understand, okay, well,
14:26exactly what the brand is looking for, get under the bonnet of their objectives,
14:30and then go and try and find the rights holder that's going to really fulfill those objectives and create that
14:35story that they're looking for.
14:37Sponsorship has changed significantly over the years.
14:40And I think brands now want more visibility.
14:43How do you constantly rise to that challenge?
14:46Yeah, you are 100% right.
14:48You know, a sponsorship or a partnership that I like to call it is more than just a branding exercise.
14:53Long gone are those days.
14:55You know, especially when you've got the young, you know, the young kids and the young audience now that they're
14:59glued to their iPhones.
15:00Absolutely.
15:01You know, so they want, they're oozing, they're waiting for content.
15:03So that's storytelling and that sort of like real content creation and how you can really build, bring a brand
15:11to life using a football or a rugby club as the vehicle is really important.
15:16And it's all going to be captured on this iPhone.
15:18So that digital side of everything is massive.
15:20It's huge.
15:21And do you see the role changing with the onset of AI in the future?
15:26What does that look like?
15:28Well, it's not just AI, is it?
15:29It's fintech as well.
15:30It's all the modern developments that are taking place, which go past us, don't they?
15:34You know, but for you, you've got to be on that ball, haven't you?
15:37Yeah, a hundred percent.
15:38And, you know, there's something new coming out every day of the week.
15:40Yes.
15:41No, like literally.
15:42And, but yeah, there is, it's going to play a huge part moving forward.
15:47I mean, if you look at partnerships, Chelsea have just done a big partnership with a big AI company on
15:51the front of their shirts.
15:52So they're coming out more and more.
15:54Chat GBT, I think, have done something in cricket in India.
15:57So, but also the actual technology themselves, you know, and I don't think it's just sport and sponsorship.
16:02And, you know, I think it's business in general.
16:05They're going to be using AI to really support their services and their operations moving forward to make them more
16:12streamlined.
16:13But the core of your business, it's got to be about, I presume, getting it on the front of the
16:18shirt, hasn't it?
16:19It's all, so the core of our business is relationships, you know.
16:22So whilst we, yes, we have to use modern technology, it's all about relationships.
16:26And if we're going to, if we're going to deliver a Premier League front of shirt, for example, that's valued
16:31at 10 billion pounds,
16:32you're not going to do that through an AI system.
16:34You are not going to do that through an email.
16:36You are going to have to meet these people, look them at the whites of the eyes and build that
16:41real rapport, that real relationship.
16:43And that's what we're all about as a business.
16:45But yeah, we, you know, front of shirts is something that we've delivered before in the past, you know, for
16:50Premier League clubs prior to my time.
16:52So, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's not just that we're looking to help and support clubs, whether it's front
16:58of shirt, whether it's naming rights deals, whether it's just more official partnerships,
17:04however we can help and support them and generate and bring in more revenue to the football club or to
17:09the rugby club or whatever sport it is.
17:10That's what we're there for.
17:12We're an extension to their sales team.
17:13How is this sponsorship changing?
17:15I mean, just thinking of a few games we've been to this season, Crewe, for example, Crewe Alexandra, they're sponsored
17:22by, is it Morning Flake?
17:24They're a porridge manufacturer.
17:26And of course, the porridge manufacturer is in the town of Crewe, so it's very local.
17:32So the, the notion of a local business supporting their local football club, that's still going to be there.
17:39100%.
17:40But equally, there's the big beasts moving into the marketplace now, aren't they?
17:46Now, perhaps at the level that Wartell plays football, you're not going to get the big fintech, the big AI
17:52operators.
17:53But certainly in the premiership, which is the best league in the world, it's your multi-millionaire, multi-million pound
18:02businesses that are coming in.
18:04Multi-billion pound businesses, I presume, are coming in.
18:06Yeah, you're absolutely right.
18:07And a lot of that comes down to the valuation.
18:09You know, there's only a small percentage of businesses globally that are able to afford a Premier League front-of
18:13-shirt partner.
18:14You know, and there's a lot of changes due to sort of Premier League legislation around what can and what
18:19can't go on a front-of-shirt for next season.
18:23So it's a hard market, if I'm perfectly honest.
18:26Is it quite regulated then?
18:28So it's the, it's the betting regulations.
18:30So there are regulators coming into the Premier League next season, whereby a front-of-shirt can't, a betting company
18:36can't be on the front-of-shirt.
18:38And bear in mind there's what, 12, 13 clubs now in the Premier League that have all got betting companies.
18:43They've all got to come off and they've all got to find replacements for them.
18:46And in a market that is already tough, you know, you've obviously got a lot going on in the world,
18:51which is putting a lot of uncertainty into certain businesses' minds.
18:56It just makes it quite challenging, but they're there to support them.
18:58I'm old enough to remember when tobacco companies couldn't advertise on anything as well.
19:03And, you know, I also remember the argument that this was going to ruin sport, but it didn't because there
19:09were plenty of other people to step into that void.
19:12I guess you've got to be a little bit ahead of the curve, haven't you, to identify who's the next
19:17wave of people coming in.
19:18You're 100% right, Mike. We have to be three, four, five years ahead of the curve looking at sectors.
19:24You know, so what sectors are coming into the industry?
19:26You know, AI, one of them.
19:28You know, they're a new sector.
19:30You know, they want that, you know, they're all fighting for market share of their platform, you know.
19:35And they need to use the power of a Premier League football club potentially to tell the world about what
19:40it is that they do
19:41and how they can help or support an individual or also a business as well.
19:45Isn't there talk of regulators coming more into football?
19:50And when they do, is that going to be a good thing?
19:53Or do you think that will deter sponsorships coming forward?
19:59I don't think the independent regulator coming in will impact a huge amount when it comes to actual partnerships and
20:05sponsorships.
20:06I think other things in, certainly in football clubs, obviously, that we're talking about, it will do.
20:11From a partnership perspective, I think as long as a club can really demonstrate how they can genuinely help a
20:17brand achieve what their objectives are as a business,
20:21then I don't see how that will impact them.
20:23Right. I see. Very, very interesting.
20:26How do you see your current company in five years' time?
20:31What would success look like?
20:33Oh, well, I have the privilege of working with an amazing team, with an amazing leader called Adrian Wright.
20:40And I should have mentioned him actually earlier because Adrian actually employed me.
20:44Oh, you've got to be nice to him.
20:4519 years ago at Birmingham City Football Club.
20:47Oh, right. Really?
20:48He was commercial director and he then went on to work for West Bram as sales and marketing director under
20:54Jeremy Peace.
20:54He set the business up 10 years ago today and it's been very, very successful.
21:00We've got operations in Europe, in India, and we've got lots of ambitions to go to the US and various
21:08other places.
21:09We've also got a sports recruitment business as well, which is part of the whole operation.
21:14And we've just got a huge ambition, huge ambition.
21:17How big is the team, the Birmingham branch that you're...
21:20We've got, it's not, we're fairly lean. There's about eight of us in total.
21:24You know, they operate from Temple Street in Birmingham City Centre.
21:28And there's about 16 of us from a global perspective.
21:31That's amazing.
21:32I mean, it's a fascinating subject.
21:33In closing, women's football, women's rugby, women's cricket.
21:39Is that making an impact with the sponsors?
21:43Are they prepared to pay somewhere close to what they are for the men's game?
21:47Valuations-wise, no.
21:48So, you know, and look, it all depends.
21:52It all depends what you've got to offer.
21:54But women's sport is on a massive upward stretcher.
21:57You know, and I'm a huge advocate.
21:59We as a business are a huge advocate.
22:01And it's part of our portfolio and what we want to offer to clubs and to brands to make sure
22:06that women's sports is getting the visibility that it needs.
22:10And brands are accustomed to that.
22:11They want to be aligned across all forms of...
22:14But there is catch-up to play, isn't there?
22:16Yeah, of course.
22:17Of course there is.
22:18But it's getting there, you know.
22:19And I think everyone's buying into what women's sport can offer.
22:22And brands are also buying into it as well, which is really important.
22:24Well, women's sport is certainly getting TV coverage and it's even in newspapers at the back pages.
22:30Absolutely.
22:31TV coverage.
22:32And obviously what England have done as the national team has been great.
22:35Absolutely.
22:36Ian, thank you so much.
22:37I'm going to have to stop you there.
22:38We've ran out of time, but it's been a real pleasure talking to you.
22:41It's been absolutely fascinating.
22:42Thank you so much.
22:43And, you know, you're so young still.
22:45We've still got so much more we can do.
22:47Oh, we love you.
22:48We love you.
22:48We'll have been back in another 10, 20 years.
22:50Thanks so much.
22:51I've really, really enjoyed it.
22:52Right.
22:52Anyway, thank you for watching Oli's Live and we hope that you tune in next week.
22:58So it's goodbye from me.
22:59And goodbye from me, of course.
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