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00:09Current Anchor at Brussels Economic Security Forum is US Ambassador to the EU, Andrew Pulitzer.
00:15Chairman of U.S. Ambassador to the EU, Andrew Pulitzer.
00:15Ambassador, you are very welcome. Thanks for being here on Euronews.
00:17Pleasure to be here, thank you.
00:18And earlier this week the European Commission unveiled what is called a Tech Sovereignty Package.
00:25And the idea is to remove dependencies on tech companies in China and the United States
00:31in an effort to basically shore up European security.
00:35What is your reaction to that? Because the Europeans say this is necessary.
00:38Well, it's a very thick bill, and I have not had a chance to look through it very thoroughly.
00:43But I hope that this tech sovereignty doesn't drive a wedge between the United States and
00:50Europe in the tech area, because I think that it's very important that they stay united,
00:55that we partner with Europe.
00:57We've now got a, hopefully by the end of this month, we'll have a trade agreement.
01:01We've got Paxilica, which is an effort to involve our allies, including the European
01:08Union, in the chip industry and our supply chains and in artificial intelligence generally.
01:14We've got a critical minerals memorandum of understanding, so we can try and maybe ring
01:19fence some economies so that we're not subject to economic coercion when it comes to these
01:24rare earth minerals.
01:25Europe is behind in the AI race.
01:28They're way behind China, and China is behind the United States.
01:32They're not going to catch up.
01:33So I think the more they separate from the US AI hardware stack, which is important if
01:38you're going to be in the AI economy, the more they separate themselves from that, the more
01:42negative it's going to be.
01:43So I'm hoping it'll be more of a partnership and less of a competition.
01:47But the EU would say, well, we're too reliant on the United States for financial services
01:52as well as digital services.
01:53And one example that has come up over the past few months is the US sanctions on judges at
01:58the International Criminal Court, where those judges who live in The Hague, in a European
02:03country, can no longer use their Microsoft accounts and can no longer use US credit cards
02:08or credit cards that everybody else has.
02:10So they feel that's not right.
02:17We definitely have disagreements with these particular judges and the way that they've dealt with
02:24international law and American companies, American individuals, as well as other people around the globe.
02:31But this is a small part of what's involved in a massive relationship, a cross-continental relationship
02:40that's very, very intertwined.
02:43You really can't break it up.
02:45You can't remove it.
02:47You can't.
02:48Europe is far enough behind the United States and China that it really can't catch up.
02:54So I don't know that separating off is going to solve the problems they're trying to solve.
02:58But the point I suppose they're making is that they need to be independent to protect themselves
03:03from a sovereign perspective.
03:05But also there are concerns because of the last year or so with the Trump administration.
03:10The Europeans feel slightly under threat or slightly coerced.
03:13If you look at maybe the trade deal that was agreed in Turnberry just at the end of last
03:19summer, that there was a 15% tariff rate imposed on the Europeans.
03:23It wasn't much of a negotiation.
03:24You have also the Greenland issue.
03:27So the Europeans feel now is the time not to decouple, but to at least de-risk from the
03:32United States as well as China.
03:34So with the trade agreement, the trade agreement is an effort that President von der Leyen and
03:39President Trump mutually negotiated to try and rebalance a very unbalanced trade relationship.
03:45Our largest trade deficit in the world is with the European Union.
03:48Now, it is the largest trade relationship in the world.
03:51But for years, you would pay a 10% tariff to sell a Cadillac in Berlin, but you would only
03:57pay a 2.5% tariff to sell a Mercedes Benz in Detroit.
04:01And nobody in Europe seemed to be complaining about the imbalance at that point in time.
04:05It's only now that we're trying to rebalance the relationship that that inequity created
04:09that people are complaining.
04:10The 50% tariff you mentioned is on steel and aluminum.
04:14And I will also point out that Europe has a 50% tariff on steel and aluminum.
04:18The idea of those tariffs is both to keep out subsidized product from China, where they're
04:26selling steel and aluminum at prices that really nobody in the world can compete with
04:32because they're subsidized by the Chinese government.
04:34So Europe is doing the same thing on steel and aluminum that the United States is.
04:39On Greenland, what the president said was he wouldn't take any options off the table.
04:43Greenland is a very strategically important issue for the United States.
04:47It's important for Europe.
04:48I don't think really a year ago, if we had this discussion, people would be as aware of
04:53how strategically important Greenland is.
04:55So it's important for the United States.
04:57It's important for Europe.
04:59And it's important that people understand that this is an area of the country, area of
05:03the world where China and Russia will try and take advantage.
05:07And I think they're a little more nervous about how the United States would react than
05:10they are about how Denmark would react.
05:12So would you, can you say then that Denmark has nothing to worry about?
05:15Because we did also see the prime minister of Greenland saying that the U.S. envoy to Nuke
05:20pretty much had the same intentions as Donald Trump said he did back in January.
05:24Marco Rubio said Greenland's part of Denmark for now.
05:27So it seems to be a little bit more about than highlighting the security threat from Russia
05:31and China in the high north and the Arctic.
05:33Well, but it did highlight the security threat.
05:36I think that's the important point here.
05:37Whether or not the United States becomes more involved and the extent to which we become
05:41more involved will in fact be decided by the President and Secretary Rubio, not by me.
05:46But I think it's important we understand that it's important that the United States be involved
05:50and remain involved in Greenland.
05:53And I think it's, I think Europe has now realized that it needs to step up its defense and its
05:58position
05:59with respect to Greenland.
06:00So I think we're headed in the right direction.
06:02Where it ends up, that'll be, as I said, up to the President and the Secretary of State.
06:07And we've seen President Zelensky of Ukraine taking, I suppose, the mantle into his own hands
06:12about trying to end the Russian invasion of his country, where he wrote a letter personally
06:18for President Putin, saying that he would like to meet him.
06:21Do you think this is a good idea that the Ukrainians are going to try to take control
06:25of the situation and the Europeans maybe?
06:27Because obviously the U.S. is very busy dealing with the Strait of War most.
06:32So the extent to which the President or Secretary Rubio are involved in the peace negotiations
06:37with Ukraine is obviously something that's in the discretion of the President.
06:42I think he's been very open that he wants to see this war end.
06:47I think it's been a great frustration to him that he hasn't been able to bring about
06:51an end to the war.
06:52I have not talked to him about it, but I'd be very surprised if he objected to Putin
06:57and Zelensky talking, particularly if it ended up with a resolution to this conflict.
07:01I think the Ukrainian people have lasted here much longer than anybody thought they were
07:05going to last.
07:06I think a lot of people thought they wouldn't, they maybe wouldn't make it a couple of weeks
07:09and we're, I think we're in year five.
07:11So this is, they've been incredibly resilient and I hope they bring about an end to the
07:16war.
07:16I think it's important to everybody.
07:17One of the concerns that Europe has is that the Americans are moving away from the security
07:24architecture of the European continent, which of course the Europeans are saying, this is
07:27about time, we need to step up, we need to start paying 5% and so on.
07:32But there's a real fear that that also means in times of war that maybe our allies won't
07:38be there for them.
07:39When you look at the sort of NATO force model and the reduction of the capabilities that
07:42are existing there.
07:43Do you think America is turning away from the Europe?
07:46Well, I think America is refocusing some of its energies and resources on dealing with
07:52Asia, which is we have a competitor in China that really requires that we refocus how we
08:00allocate our resources.
08:01And there's certainly nothing wrong with asking Europe to step up and take care of itself.
08:06But look, America came to the defense of Europe twice in the last century.
08:09We defended Europe throughout the Cold War and actually have defended them since the fall of
08:14the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War.
08:16So we still have massive numbers of troops here and massive numbers of military armaments and
08:21supplies.
08:22There's nothing wrong with the United States cutting back on that and Europe taking a more
08:26assertive role in its own defense.
08:28I think that's something we want.
08:30And I believe it's something that the Europeans now realize and that the Europeans want.
08:34I think that some of the fears from the European capitals is that it's happening at a time
08:38when the United States, particularly President Trump, is extremely disappointed.
08:41He's made that very clear to Mark Rutte and so on, and to the Europeans themselves, about
08:45their lack of support in the aftermath of the U.S. and Israeli strikes on the Iran in relation
08:51to the straighter from us.
08:52Has that situation subsided for Donald Trump?
08:56I don't know that it's subsided.
08:58I mean, I know he's very disappointed.
08:59We have a situation where the president, at great political risk, I mean, his party was
09:07not, the MAGA movement is not supportive of foreign wars.
09:11The Democrats were going to oppose him no matter what he did.
09:14So without really any political advantage, he assessed the situation, saw the development
09:20of the missiles and the drones in Iran, and they're continuing to try and get access to
09:26a nuclear weapon.
09:27They're having that visible nuclear material where they could create 10 or 11 bombs.
09:32And said, rather than kicking the can down the road or passing the buck, whichever metaphor
09:37you want to use, he decided that it was important that he act, despite the fact that it wouldn't
09:42be to his political advantage, because it was the right thing to do.
09:45We have bases in Europe that we have funded and supported for decades.
09:51We have countries that we've rescued in war, and we've been a very reliable ally to.
09:56When they won't even let us fly over their country or use our bases in their countries,
10:01you're going to find the United States, and particularly President Trump, will be very
10:05upset.
10:06And I don't know when that subsides.
10:08Yeah.
10:08But hopefully it will over time.
10:11But I don't know if it has yet.
10:12Do you think that this sort of reaction then at NATO is part of that, saying, look, you
10:15didn't come to our aid, so therefore we won't be there for you in times of need, and that's
10:19why we're removing capabilities?
10:21No, I don't think anybody said that.
10:23What I've heard Secretary Rubio say is, look, we're supportive of NATO, but the reason that
10:27we have an alliance is so that we defend each other and work together.
10:30And if that's not how the alliance is going to work, then we need to reassess it.
10:34Nobody, I don't think anybody said, we're pulling out of NATO, we're going to pull out
10:37of NATO.
10:38What about the Europeans' perspective when they say NATO is a defensive organization,
10:43this was an offensive war outside the territory of NATO, so therefore the obligation wasn't
10:49for us, particularly when we weren't consulted?
10:51I think that's a little too technical and a little too ignoring of reality.
10:55The Iranians have been at war with at least the United States and Israel for 47 years.
11:00I mean, they've been killing people.
11:02They've got these groups like Hamas and Hezbollah that go out and attack the U.S. forces and
11:09Israeli forces.
11:10They've now bombed Cyprus.
11:12They tried to bomb.
11:13They sent a missile down to the island off of India, Diego.
11:18I can't remember what the name of it is, but the island that the British control off the
11:21coast of India.
11:22Diego Garcia.
11:23So I think that may be a technical explanation that tries to get them off the hook for something
11:30they maybe should have done.
11:31Nobody was asking them to send troops.
11:33All we wanted to do was fly over the countries we defended and use the air bases or the military
11:40bases that we maintain in those countries.
11:42So if you're not willing to do that, what are you willing to do?
11:45So it was a big mistake for a small ask.
11:47Is that what you're saying?
11:48I would say that was a very good summary.
11:51Ambassador Andrew Pudson, thank you very much for joining us on 12 Minutes at Euronews.
11:55Thank you.
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