- 5 ore fa
Diplomazia UE sull'Ucraina: cosa può ottenere? Il dibattito a The Ring
Mosca sta deliberatamente intensificando la guerra in Ucraina? Le incursioni di droni russi nello spazio aereo europeo mettono l’UE in difficoltà. Più spese per la difesa sono la risposta giusta? E come andrebbero usati quei fondi?
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2026/06/04/diplomazia-ue-sullucraina-cosa-puo-ottenere-il-dibattito-a-the-ring
Abbonati, euronews è disponibile in 12 lingue.
Mosca sta deliberatamente intensificando la guerra in Ucraina? Le incursioni di droni russi nello spazio aereo europeo mettono l’UE in difficoltà. Più spese per la difesa sono la risposta giusta? E come andrebbero usati quei fondi?
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2026/06/04/diplomazia-ue-sullucraina-cosa-puo-ottenere-il-dibattito-a-the-ring
Abbonati, euronews è disponibile in 12 lingue.
Categoria
🗞
NovitàTrascrizione
00:08Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show, broadcasting from the European Parliament in Brussels.
00:16I'm Stefan Grube.
00:17On The Ring, debaters go face-to-face on some of the biggest political issues facing Europe.
00:22Today, we want to talk about the latest from the war in Ukraine.
00:26What's the answer to Russian drone attacks? And what can European diplomacy achieve?
00:32Luis Alberto explains.
00:37As the war in Ukraine grinds into its fifth summer, a peaceful solution remains as elusive as ever.
00:44The same can be said about a clear European strategy.
00:48Nowhere is this more evident than in the European response to the ongoing violations of EU airspace by Russian drones.
00:56The latest incident in Romania last week yielded strong condemnation, but nothing more.
01:02This is frustrating especially the Baltic republics, who fear to be in the Russian crosshairs next.
01:09Is Europe just eager to avoid a more serious confrontation with Moscow?
01:13Are some European leaders concerned that they might jeopardize their potential role as mediators in this conflict?
01:18And is this even realistic, as Europe remains Ukraine's strongest political and economic backer?
01:29A lot to unpack here for our contenders. And here they are.
01:35Rasa Jugnavicine, a Lithuanian MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party.
01:40She is the vice chair of the delegation to the Uranist Parliamentary Assembly and a member of the Committee of
01:46Foreign Affairs.
01:46One of the most outspoken voices on European security, she said,
01:51I do not believe in deals with Putin. Peace negotiations are possible, but only after a ceasefire.
01:58Merja Kulunin, a Finnish MEP from the left and a member of the Committee on Security and Defense.
02:04A former Finnish transport minister, she has been a vocal supporter of Ukraine
02:08and has called for frozen Russian assets to be made available to support the country.
02:12She has also warned against complacency towards Moscow.
02:16In some countries, there is still a naive attitude towards Russia.
02:20She said, arguing that Europe must take the Russian threat seriously.
02:27So let me welcome to the ring Rasa Jugnavicine and Merja Kilonen.
02:32Great to have you here, both of you. Good to see you.
02:35Now, the aim of the ring is to offer our viewers a glimpse at European Parliament debates,
02:41so you should feel right at home. Are you ready?
02:45Yes.
02:45Good. Now, I want to start with that incident that happened last week.
02:50The Russian drone attack, the drone that crashed into an apartment building in Romania.
02:58After that, EU leaders portrayed it not as an isolated incident,
03:03but as evidence that Russia's war against Ukraine is increasingly spilling across borders.
03:09Now, what conclusion should Europe draw now?
03:13Merja, I start with you.
03:15Definitely, condemns is not enough.
03:19We need to fix up our capability, security, secure our countries, our people,
03:25because scare, scariness is the biggest weapon which Russia is using.
03:32And scariness, when it's going ahead, it makes us weak.
03:38And I think the drones, all the security which we can do with drone,
03:47we have speak about the drone wall, but we need more sensors, the new technology,
03:53and definitely use money wisely over the military budget also,
04:00because there's other operators which are dealing with these cases.
04:04And, for example, I have learned it from my home country, Finland,
04:08that we haven't been able to activate the system in other parts than only the military side.
04:16And I think the civil societies are urgent in this case.
04:20Raza, you're from Lithuania, a country that, as we heard,
04:24is always, you know, at the crosshairs of Russia, so everybody believes.
04:29When you hear this news after Romania, after the incursions in the Baltic states, in Poland,
04:35what is your take?
04:37My take is the same as it was in the very beginning when this war started,
04:41and not only in 2022, but in 2014.
04:46We were warning all the time, Europe, NATO, other many countries, that it's serious.
04:54It's not only regional war somewhere.
04:56And today, I think we are in a better situation as European Union, as many NATO countries,
05:03because we have almost right diagnosis on the table.
05:07As medical doctor in the past, I have to say, and it's very important for politicians as well,
05:14first of all, to have the right diagnosis.
05:17Drones are only one piece of the whole picture, puzzle, which we have.
05:23So, the picture, the whole picture is that Russia is a colonial, imperialistic state,
05:32and they will not stop just with Ukraine or only a piece of Ukraine.
05:38So, this diagnosis is not yet on agenda, on the table in many, in all the countries.
05:45So, if we want to have a proper treatment against drones, I don't know, against everything,
05:52we have to understand that we have to help Ukraine to win this war,
05:57and not to be afraid to defeat Putin.
06:00It was mentioned fair in video, in this short video.
06:04No, we don't feel fair, because we, like Ukrainians, we would like to convince others
06:10not to be afraid to defeat this evil of 21st century.
06:14They want to make us weak, make us fight together, make us not trust to each other.
06:22That's the political game.
06:24That's the colonial kind of game also, what they are using.
06:28So, NATO condemned this attack, but stopped short of treating it as an armed attack
06:36that could trigger Article 5, the famous self-defence, collective defence clause.
06:43Was this the right thing to do?
06:45Sort of condemning it, but also signalling that this, we don't think this is a, you know,
06:54a casus belli.
06:55I'm a little bit worried that we are waiting the Big Bang to happen,
07:00because Russia is testing us, and when it will happen that something bigger comes,
07:08either to Baltic countries, either to Finland or to Poland.
07:11I think we are the next targets, and the diplomacy and the condemn things,
07:18Okay, it helps us a little bit, but actually something which is much more than this
07:27is the power that we need to say it out loud, that we are not giving up.
07:35Now, the Russians are saying, and obviously that apartment building in Romania was sort
07:41of a random target.
07:42The Russians are saying that it's actually Ukraine's fault, because they're jamming the
07:46airwaves, and that makes drones difficult to operate.
07:50What do you make of this argument?
07:51Look, it is not the case to start to look drone, Ukrainian, Russian, or something else.
07:58Russia is responsible for this war.
08:01Russia is responsible for all drones in Ukraine, in our space.
08:08Or Putin is responsible that people of Russia now is suffering because of Ukrainian response.
08:14They are defending themselves.
08:15So here, coming back to the question about NATO response, what is lacking, I think, to understand
08:25that we are strong enough to be able to help Ukraine to win and not to be afraid.
08:34And Putin has to get a message that we are strong and we are ready.
08:39Now, still, now the situation is a little bit better.
08:42But remember, in the very beginning of this large-scale war, what messages were sent to
08:48Putin?
08:49Oh, please, for us, for everybody, we are afraid of the World War III.
08:54Don't attack Russian targets deep in Russia.
08:58We don't, we will not provide leopards.
09:02We will not provide with long-range missiles.
09:05What was the message to Putin?
09:07The message was, we are afraid.
09:09So today, we have to say in a very clear way, we have enough resources to do everything the
09:18best to defend ourselves, including the targets in Russia.
09:22Don't be afraid for that.
09:25Because if we are afraid of escalation, so Putin is opportunistic.
09:29Okay, so has our response been lukewarm so far?
09:34I think we, as Eastern borderline countries, have a different side of this picture than, for example, in the central
09:45part of Europe.
09:46And that worries me a lot, because this is also a media war.
09:51Because the information we give to other countries, information we give to Russia, the Russian people, I still can go
10:00to Spain or France and see in the telly the Russian news.
10:06And it shocks me, because it means that we don't act like we are all in war with Russia.
10:16Speaking about worry, so after this incident, Dmitry Medvedev, who you all know, the deputy chairman of the Russian Security
10:24Council, said this, and I quote,
10:27EU countries need to shut up on this matter.
10:30European states are direct participants in the war against Russia.
10:34This will continue to happen, and EU citizens will not be able to sleep peacefully.
10:40How worried should we be?
10:42So what?
10:43So what?
10:44We, of course, are at war helping Ukraine to win.
10:48Of course, we are at war, because Russia is conducting already hybrid warfare in our member states.
10:55So we have to admit this, and not to be afraid what Medvedev is saying.
11:00It's vice versa.
11:02Look, you mentioned Russia today, or all those outlets in other European countries.
11:07Imagine if, during the World War II, Hitler propaganda would be broadcasted in countries they are fighting against Hitler.
11:19So today we have this totalitarian regime with the very concrete name, Rusky Mir, Russian World.
11:26And this is exactly the same as it was maybe in 21st century, Hitler and Stalin together.
11:33So we have to admit, all of us, if we are fighting, we have to fight.
11:39All right.
11:39Let me stop you here, as we're just getting warmed up.
11:43It's time now for Gloves Off.
11:51Now we want viewers to get a real flavor of the European Parliament Chamber, where members ask each other questions.
11:57That means we want our debaters to challenge each other directly, just as you do in the normal hemicycle.
12:04So let's get started.
12:05Rasa, let's start with you.
12:08My question is, what is your assessment of Donald Trump's nearly year-long efforts to negotiate deals with Putin?
12:17I hate the situation that he is dealing over us.
12:25I got the feeling that we need stronger leadership in the EU.
12:30I have said that if the bigger ones can't do it, we as a smaller EU country should do that.
12:38I'm not saying that diplomacy is the case, how we can solve all the problems.
12:44But we are partners with Ukraine.
12:48And in any case, in every way, we can support Ukraine in this situation.
12:54It's urgently needed to be done.
12:57And I wouldn't let these two guys destroy our future and decide over Europe and over Ukraine.
13:08I'm sure we come to this point later.
13:10But now your question to Rasa.
13:13You have said that EU cannot be a neutral mediator.
13:17I agree.
13:18Europe is not neutral between an aggressor and a victim.
13:22But if the US and Rasa talk about Europe's security architecture and Rasa drones are violating our airspace,
13:32who should speak for Europe with one clear mandate?
13:38Ukraine's sovereignty, the pressure on Rasa and protection of European citizens.
13:44You know, I don't believe in Putin's engagement to talk, to start any negotiations.
13:55Today, we have quite a different situation as it was one year ago.
14:00And I think Putin, and he feels, I think, at least his surroundings, they feel that they are losing.
14:08They are not winning this war.
14:09Maybe not losing, but they are not winning this war.
14:12And they are really in a very difficult situation.
14:16So that's why they are trying to escalate the situation.
14:19It's dangerous, of course.
14:22We have to take it seriously.
14:23But nevertheless, not to start negotiations about everything, about the future of Russia, about everything.
14:32We have to start to talk with him.
14:34First, the precondition is ceasefire.
14:37And then to start to talk about the peace, but not about, you know, everything.
14:43So today, what I am missing in those talks among European leaders to start or not to start negotiations, the
14:51content, the understanding.
14:54We just started our show, our conversation about the right diagnosis.
15:00So until we don't have this right diagnosis, what we would like to achieve, and that is the evil of
15:0521st century.
15:06So I can't imagine negotiations with Hitler in 1943 or 1944.
15:14So for me, it's exactly the same lesson of history.
15:17We have to learn.
15:19Okay.
15:20So, well, we've heard the views from our guests so far.
15:23Now it's time to hear from a new voice.
15:30For our quote of the week, I would like to bring in Kaya Kalas, the EU's chief diplomat, at the
15:36latest EU summit in Cyprus.
15:37She said this.
15:39Russia wants us to discuss who talks to them, and they are already picking who is suitable for that.
15:46Let's not walk into that trap.
15:50Are we walking into a trap here?
15:52Your comment, Mirja.
15:54Yes.
15:54This president make things like that, that he can choose who is the operator.
16:00So there are basically two schools of thought here.
16:05One says people are dying in this conflict.
16:08We need to put an end to this.
16:09That's why we need to find a negotiated solution.
16:13And the other position is it's Russia's war.
16:16Russia is not interested in negotiations, so we need to continue the fight until they withdraw or until they lost
16:24the war.
16:24Russia, where do you come down on this?
16:26Look, it is not what we believe or not will happen.
16:30It already happened.
16:31One year of negotiations or attempts to make a deal with Putin from Washington, D.C. failed.
16:39You mean with the American-led effort?
16:41Let's admit it.
16:42It failed.
16:42So is it something new?
16:45It is somehow, but also it costs a lot Ukrainian lives.
16:52It costs a lot.
16:53And we were very close to legitimization of Putin's regime if Putin would be clever enough to agree on those,
17:03I would say, to make the deal which was proposed.
17:09It didn't happen.
17:11I don't know what will happen in the future, but now we have to strengthen our own defense.
17:17We have to help Ukraine as much as possible today.
17:20This is the main precondition for the future, just peace in the future.
17:26The only precondition.
17:27Maria, would you say that we need to wait until the solution is found on the battlefield, until Ukraine won
17:36the war, and then we can talk and not earlier?
17:39I think we need to definitely pressure Russia much more hard weapons than we are using now.
17:48How can we do that?
17:49I mean the financial, the market, all the things we can do with the oil, with systems we have, the
17:59capability we have in others than only the military help to Ukraine.
18:05But I think we need also support more Ukraine.
18:11Militarily, you mean?
18:12Militarily, yeah.
18:13So all these top weapons that so far we haven't given them, we should give them.
18:18Yes.
18:19Everything they need.
18:20Everything they need.
18:22Look, I like this name, how they call strikes deep to Russia.
18:29They call it like long-range sanctions.
18:35It works.
18:36It works.
18:37Russia has to feel, they have to feel that they are at war, Russians as well, unfortunately.
18:45And I have very many friends from Russian opposition.
18:48I know how painful it is for all sides when war is going on.
18:53But nevertheless, no one war was won only defending yourself.
19:00As a former minister of defense, I have to say this.
19:04It's reality.
19:06It is like textbook of every war.
19:09So when we were afraid to damage something inside Russia, we were wrong.
19:17We could win this war already together with Ukrainians or maybe help more Ukraine to win this war.
19:23If end of 2022, beginning 23, when Ukrainians pushed back Russians from Kherson and Kharkov, that was a very good
19:34moment to provide Ukrainians with everything they needed.
19:37We were afraid to do this.
19:39We were afraid.
19:40All right, let's keep defense spending for another conversation in a moment.
19:46And let's take a break now here on The Ring.
19:49We'll be back with more after this.
19:52Don't go away.
20:01Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:05I'm Stefan Grobe and I'm joined by Rasa Jugnevićine from the European People's Party from Lithuania and Merja Kilonen from
20:12the left group from Finland.
20:14At this point, let's take a look at European defense spending since the start of the war in Ukraine.
20:20EU defense spending went from more than 200 billion euros in 2021 to almost 350 billion in 2024.
20:29This represents an increase of 60, more than 60 percent.
20:34Defense spending reached almost 2 percent of EU GDP in 2024, up from 1.6 percent in 2023.
20:42Now, 25 of the 27 EU member states boosted defense spending in 2024.
20:49Now, your comments hearing these figures, Merja.
20:54I want more strategic thinking around EU using our defense money smartly.
21:04What does that mean?
21:05That means that we need to have common projects where we build up the security about air security, air defense,
21:18air security, build up new resilient systems around EU.
21:25Because the common peace of our citizens is also the key to be prepared, as our former president, Sauli Niinister,
21:37in his report, tried to teach us.
21:40So, what worries me is that we don't have seen the whole picture.
21:46I think we are well prepared with Baltic country, with Poland, the eastern borderline.
21:52But how we can connect all the others to understand that we are...
21:56So, is it really more money or is it spending the money that we have in a better way, a
22:01more efficient way?
22:02So, it's also more money, but the key issue is using it smartly, much more smartly and wisely than we
22:11have done before.
22:12And using it also, the new technology, because what Ukrainians are saying to us, we are acting like everything is
22:24like in the old years.
22:25And things have changed, and we have to change our thinking, too.
22:31Rasa, your point.
22:32Of course, increasing spending percentages are very important.
22:38And here, despite I have some criticism on Donald Trump, but on this I have to admit that his push
22:47to Europeans to spend more was very positive message and very positive thing he did.
22:54We in Lithuania now, our spendings for this year will be 5.38%.
23:01So, this is because we understand and people understand our reality.
23:06But on the other hand, I would say, I will quote Andrius Kubilius, our commissioner for defense, not percentages fighting
23:14in the battlefield, you know.
23:17We have to have, I will not repeat what you did mention, all those common understanding.
23:23So, that's why me and many other, more than 50 now, members of European Parliament, including you, Maria, we created
23:33an informal group for defense, European Defense Union.
23:37And we would like to push, especially member states, to wake up.
23:42Yes, I feel that some member states, they still live in the past, as it was before.
23:49You know, as it is very famous quote of politologist Clark, politicians think about next election, statesmen think about next
24:02generation.
24:03So, now we have to be in one, to think about next election, of course, it's important, but to think
24:09more about next generation.
24:11You say there are 50 like-minded members of Parliament with you on this, but the Parliament has 700 plus
24:19members.
24:20Where are the others here?
24:21My question is, is this a point where large majorities agree, even in the public, Maria, the rearming of Europe?
24:34I think we have just started, because we realize that the big part of us share the same view, which
24:45is the situation in Europe or in white world.
24:48And I think always there has been a people who start the game.
24:56And I think 50 is more than good, because we have different countries, different political background, different history, different political
25:05history.
25:06And we can find colleagues from our countries, from different kind of background, and build up a common understanding around
25:16this.
25:17I was surprised that we already have the 50, because there was lots of people who were saying that, oh,
25:24we just look and check out things.
25:27I think we have made the wake-up call.
25:29Now we have to continue.
25:31All right, well, now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
25:40And now we want to do something different.
25:41I'm going to ask you a set of questions, and you can only answer with yes or no.
25:48Should Ukraine agree to a ceasefire, even if Russia keeps some occupied territory?
25:57No, immediately.
25:59Oh, I think it's up to Ukrainians to decide.
26:03But I think yes.
26:04Yes.
26:05But not, you know, to recognize.
26:09Not without recognitions.
26:10It's very important.
26:12Should European countries send more weapons to Ukraine?
26:15Yes.
26:16Of course, yes.
26:17Should Ukraine be allowed to strike targets deep inside Russia with Western weapons?
26:23Yes.
26:24Yes.
26:25Have cheap drones made traditional military hardware less relevant?
26:31No.
26:32Maybe not.
26:34Interesting.
26:35Should Ukraine join NATO before the war ends?
26:41No, I know that can't be possible.
26:45Yes.
26:45With one additional sentence, Ukraine today is acting as member of NATO.
26:52They are defending NATO member states.
26:55Okay.
26:55I have one more.
26:56Will this war still be ongoing in one year's time?
27:01Hope not.
27:03I am afraid, yes, will.
27:06All right.
27:07And that final answer brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring.
27:11Thanks again to Rasa Jugner-Wietzschene and Merja Kilone for a lively conversation here from the European Parliament.
27:19Thanks to our audience at home.
27:20If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to thering at euronews.com.
27:27We'd love to have your feedback.
27:29That's it for today.
27:30I'm Stefan Grobe.
27:31Take care and see you soon on Euronews.
27:35Bye.
Commenti