00:08Grazie a tutti i 12 Minutes with, is Cyprus's Deputy Minister for Migration and International Protection, Dr. Nicolás Ioannidis.
00:17Sir, thank you so much for joining us on Ero News.
00:19My pleasure, thank you for having me.
00:20The EU has just struck a deal on new rules which will speed up the return of migrants deemed not
00:28to have the legal right to stay in the European Union.
00:31Some would say this is the most major hardline shift in EU migration policy in decades.
00:38When do you expect to see the results of this?
00:42Because we know that at the moment only 27% on average of the migrants ordered to return are actually
00:48returning to their countries of origin.
00:50Of course, this is a crucial matter for the European Union member states and our European citizens.
00:58So we wanted to conclude the negotiations with the European Parliament and the Commission in order to enact a legal
01:07basis, a new legal framework in order to increase the number, both the number and the rate of returns.
01:17Because as you rightly mentioned, the rates are low.
01:20And it is quite important to have an effective return system in order for the general overall European migration policy
01:32to function properly.
01:35Thus, we believe that the missing piece of the EU Pact on Migration and Asylum, namely the return regulation that
01:42we agreed on on Monday, will contribute to the effectiveness of our migration policy.
01:49Let's get into the details of this, because for our viewers at home, it might be a bit confusing.
01:55But this is about making sure that those people who are ordered to leave because they don't have the legal
02:01right to stay, they have not been granted asylum to go to their home countries.
02:05But isn't it true that the problem in many cases is that those home countries, the countries of origin, are
02:11not accepting those migrants back?
02:13And if so, what do these new rules do to tackle that issue?
02:17Well, this is part of the problem, namely countries that do not accept their nationals.
02:23The other problem, or aspect of this problem, is the fact that third country nationals do not cooperate with member
02:34states in order to repatriate.
02:36Therefore, the new regulation envisage measures that would accept pressure on individuals to collaborate with member states.
02:48For instance, there will be strict detention rules and law guarantee bans that will actually push, to put it this
02:59way, third country nationals to work with member states and accept their repatriation.
03:06And when it comes to third countries that do not accept their nationals, we're actually discussing measures like trade agreements
03:14or visa measures in order to make those countries to work with us so as to improve the return rate.
03:24At the heart of this, obviously, are the new return hubs.
03:28So these would be centres that the EU can build in countries outside the EU, provided they strike a bilateral
03:36deal with that country in question.
03:38And any migrant that has rejected asylum could be sent there, essentially.
03:43Isn't there a risk that these people could become stuck in a legal limbo, for example, if their countries of
03:49origin do not accept them back?
03:51Well, of course, the main issue we've been trying to deal with is the fact that third country nationals do
03:57not have a legal right to stay in the European Union.
04:01Therefore, they have to depart.
04:03So if they're not collaborating with us or the country of origin won't accept them, then we have to find
04:11a solution.
04:11And this solution is a so-called return hubs.
04:15And something that is quite important to everyone, to member states and the Commission, is that their human rights should
04:23be upheld and safeguarded.
04:25How will that be ensured?
04:26And that is why one of the means to ensure this is the engagement of international organisations such as the
04:34UNHCR and International Organization of Migration.
04:38And, of course, we'll be monitoring the situation.
04:43We don't want to punish those people.
04:46We just want to make sure that those who have no right to remain in the European Union will depart
04:52and will protect our asylum systems from misuse.
04:58If there is a case where there is a return hub where basic rights are not being upheld, what then
05:05happens to these people?
05:06There will be safeguards in the agreements concluded between member states and the third countries hosting such centres, which will
05:18stipulate the details of what's happening in case there's a human rights violation.
05:23But in any case, these are still, there are no tangible results.
05:30We've just been discussing some ideas.
05:32But now that the regulation has been agreed, we'll start delving into the matter in order to adopt more tangible
05:45measures.
05:45Because we are talking as well about children and accompanied children are excluded.
05:49But if they are with their families, they can also be sent to these return hubs.
05:55These minors, of course, cannot be blamed for being irregular migrants.
05:59They are minors.
06:01They are with their families.
06:02But yet they are being sent to these camps.
06:05Are you concerned about their safety, their well-being?
06:09Yeah, I mean, I mentioned that earlier, that upholding human rights is a red line for everyone.
06:15We don't want any violations of EU and international law.
06:19But at the same time, we have to strike a balance between illegal stay and the need to uphold human
06:26rights.
06:27Therefore, before a family is being sent to an accommodation centre, a return hub, we will examine all relevant aspects.
06:36And one of them is the best interest of the child.
06:39So all these factors will be taken into consideration prior to receiving, to making a decision of sending families to
06:48return hubs.
06:49What would you say to those critics that say that with the fixation on irregular migration, that the EU is
06:55losing its moral compass?
06:57Well, I would disagree with this because it's not just about irregular migration.
07:01And as a matter of fact, there are several provisions in the new EU Pact on Migration and Asylum that
07:08actually enhance the protection of individuals,
07:11such as the provision of legal counselling and the establishment of a monetary mechanism for human rights.
07:18And other than that, in parallel, we've been working on creating legal pathways for migration through concepts like the EU
07:27talent pool, through our visa policies.
07:30We'd like to open up legal pathways.
07:33And this way, we believe that we will tackle the regular migration facilitated by criminal smacking networks, because that's the
07:41main problem.
07:42Just briefly on the return hubs before we move on.
07:44Will the Cypriot government be looking to establish these hubs itself?
07:48Well, we haven't discussed this yet.
07:51Of course, there was no legal basis until recently.
07:54There have been some discussions within the union between member states.
08:01And now that we've got our legal basis, of course, we're interested in participating in discussions with other member states
08:09so as to find solutions and implement these provisions.
08:14Because we know there are five member states that have already said that we're exploring this, including the Netherlands, Denmark,
08:20Germany, Greece and Austria.
08:23And what countries do you think could be possible partners here?
08:28Because, you know, we are talking about countries that must have some kind of democratic standards.
08:34Yet these are countries that are willing to accept these rejected asylum seekers.
08:40Who do you see as possible partners in this?
08:43Well, I cannot refer to specific countries.
08:46But what you described actually is what the regulation envisages, that the countries where return hubs will be established should
08:57safeguard, protect and observe human rights.
09:01So these are the criteria set by the regulation.
09:04I want to ask you about the situation of Cyprus.
09:06It could be described as a frontline state when it comes to migration.
09:09How concerned are you about instability in the Middle East and the potential impact on migration flows, particularly, of course,
09:16the situation in Lebanon?
09:18Well, indeed, Cyprus is a frontline member state that has received massive migratory flows over the last years.
09:24And that is why our government has adopted strict measures in order to reduce irregular flows.
09:30And we've actually managed to do so.
09:33We managed to reduce irregular flows by nearly 90 percent over the last three years.
09:38But as you mentioned, we're in a volatile region.
09:41So we always remain vigilant lest a new crisis erupts, a new refugee crisis erupts in the region.
09:50And, of course, unfortunately, we've seen conflicts in the region, in Iran, in Lebanon.
09:55And so far, no migratory flows have been created, received no migrants from this region.
10:05And in any case, the new Pact on Migration and Asylum also stipulates measures for crisis management.
10:15It's the first time that we've got such a comprehensive legal framework in order to address this thorny issue.
10:21Finally, Minister, before we finish, there is now a discussion, and I know you'll be discussing this with your EU
10:27counterparts this week,
10:29about whether the EU should continue to provide temporary protection to Ukrainian men, young men, approaching the age of conscription.
10:39Do you think that there should be a shift in these rules?
10:43Because Chancellor Mertz of Germany, for example, has been calling on this to avoid a situation where men approaching the
10:49conscription age are leaving Ukraine in mass.
10:53Well, as you know, protection to Ukrainian citizens, Ukrainian nationals, has been extended for a year to spring 2027.
11:05But, of course, we have to discuss the future, as you mentioned.
11:09And that's what we're planning on doing in Luxembourg, in order to listen to member states, listen to their concerns,
11:18to their views, and discuss with the Commission the way forward.
11:22We've made no particular decisions so far, and it's a first-class opportunity during the Council to exchange views and
11:32somehow decide on the way forward regarding this important issue.
11:37But our support to Ukraine is there.
11:43Nothing has changed concerning this.
11:47But at the same time, we need to see how things will evolve in the coming years.
11:54Okay, Minister, thank you so much.
11:56Thank you.
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